Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Seig Heil! - Show Me Your Papers - DHS Proposes Travel Restrictions

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 05:54 PM
Original message
Seig Heil! - Show Me Your Papers - DHS Proposes Travel Restrictions
Edited on Sat Oct-21-06 05:54 PM by kpete
Permission to travel

Should you have to ask for permission from the government before you are allowed to get on a plane or cruise ship? ("Mother, may I?")

The USA Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has proposed that airlines cruise lines, and operators of all other ships and planes -- including charter flights, air taxis, fishing vessels, etc. -- be required to get individual permission (”clearance”) from the DHS for each passenger on all flights or ocean voyages to, from, or via the USA. Unless the answer is “Yes” -- if the answer is “no” or “maybe”, or if the DHS doesn’t answer at all -- the airline wouldn’t be allowed to give you a boarding pass, or let you or your luggage on the plane.

I filed comments this week with the DHS on behalf of the Identity Project, the World Privacy Forum, and activist entrepreneur John Gilmore, objecting to this proposal as a violation of international human rights, First Amendment rights, and privacy and government accountability laws.

This is the third identification-related “rulemaking” in the last month and a half in which the DHS has proposed to restrict the right to travel. I've worked with the Identity Project to file formal objections to each of these proposals:

-Expansion of US-VISIT fingerprinting, photographing, and lifetime dossiers on visitors to include permanent U.S. residents (green card holders)

-The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative to require passports for travel between the USA, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Latin America

-Conversion of the Advance Passenger Information system (API or APIS) for international ship and plane travel into an advance permission system


Airlines and cruise lines also objected to the international APIS proposal, but on grounds of cost and difficulty to implement rather than the rights of travellers. From the airlines' comments, it's clear that the DHS still doesn't understand how airlines operate, and continues to base proposals like this on fundamentally erroneous assumptions about their procedures.

more at:
http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001156.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. No, not "Mother, may !?"
Big Brother, may I?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Hah!
Good one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 05:58 PM
Original message
Looks like the time to get out has already passed. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. They can't get the 'no-fly' list right. What makes anyone think this
would work? File this under bloody stupid idea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vexatious Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. One small step for zeehomeland
One giant step for global fascism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. As a bonus, DHS collects data on everyone traveling, no matter whom.
Forget warrants. Forget "need to know" or "probable cause." Big brother is watching.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. ATTENTION: Now they are cutting off our escape routes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Shit.
:hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. They're after world domination
where is there to escape to anyway? Still a lot of open border up north.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. pretty soon we'll all need a permit to take a dump . . .
this really is turning into a fascist nation . . . fast . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here's what I think it will be used for:
To prevent anti-globalist protesters from gathering, and to keep US leftists from allying with Latin American leftists, in opposition to Corporate Rule. Also, to prevent the spread of Latin American leftist (majorityist) ideas to the US.

If you've been paying attention to events in Latin America, you're aware that a huge, unstoppable, peaceful, democratic revolution has occurred there--with leftist/socialist governments elected in Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Venezuela and Bolivia--virtually the entire South American continent. And soon in Ecuador (this year). And next election cycle in Peru. In addition, a full scale rebellion is taking place in southern Mexico, centered in Oaxaca, and allied with the huge leftist movement in Mexico City. Currently, Fox/Calderon is stymied on how to deal with this PEACEFUL and massive rebellion. They've surrounded the Oaxaca protesters--led by the local teachers union --with the military, but if they attack them, all hell is going to break loose in Mexico. Calderon won by only a 1/2 percent margin in a contested election. The corporatist regime will not survive if they assault the teachers and their peaceful supporters. So they are now holding peace talks. Also, Daniel Ortega--leader of the Sandinista revolution of the '80s (a relatively benign armed revolution, destroyed by Reagan thugs and murderers, in violation of the express will of the US Congress, and focus of the Iran/Contra scandal) is way ahead in the polls in the presidential race in Nicaragua.

Key to many of these situations in So. America in which leftist governments have been elected are popular uprisings against Corporate Rule. For instance, in Argentina, where the country's economy and its society was being ruined by onerous World Bank/IMF debt*, the poor and the middle class formed an alliance and went round with tiny hammers, breaking every bank ATM display window in the country, to protest the bankers' collusion with these destructive policies. Three governments later--in quick succession--the Argentinians finally got a leftist government that pledged to get them out of World Bank debt permanently and never get into it again. Venezuela then bought out some of that existing debt on easy terms, and, in Argentina, now, all indicators are up. They are doing well. As a consequence of the stabilization of their economy--and economic recovery--they are now in talks with Brazil about a common currency, like the euro (getting off the US dollar).

Another for instance: In Bolivia, the rebellion started when Bechtel Corp. privatized the water in one Bolivian city and then started jacking up the prices to the poorest of the poor, even charging poor peasants for collecting rainwater! The Bolivians rebelled, threw Bechtel out of their country, and elected socialist Evo Morales as president, the first indigenous president of Bolivia.

The common themes of all these popular governments are self-determination, regional cooperation, fairness and justice for the poor, and anti-US imperialism and anti-US corporate domination. It's not just Hugo Chavez, as our corporate media tries to play it. It's the entire continent. And this vast sea change in Latin American politics is built upon some long hard work on TRANSPARENT elections, conducted by the OAS, the Carter Center, EU election monitoring groups, and local civil groups. It didn't happen overnight. (US voters, take note!)

As Evo Morales has said: "The time of the people has come."

And OUR Corporate Rulers don't want any such ideas to catch on here, where they are now squeezing the last of the "golden goose" of US labor and resources (and tax money--a $10 TRILLION debt--in corporate tax breaks, multiple tax cuts for the super-rich, and hogfeed to war profiteers).

Thus, travel restrictions. And the targets will be the anti-globalization networkers, like those who traveled to Caracas recently, for the World Social Forum, or to Cancun a few years ago, to the WTO meeting (where Brazil led a 20-country third world rebellion against unfair and undemocratic WTO policies).

And don't forget Seattle 1999. That's the real threat to our Corporate Rulers--the common bonds among the poor, the middle class, third world farmers, organic farmers, labor unions, environmentalists, human rights groups, small businesses, students, religious groups and other progressives and majorityists, all represented in that awesome 50,000-strong gathering, that shut down the WTO meeting for its anti-democratic, anti-labor and anti-environment polices.

They don't want us to gather. They don't want us to share ideas. And they don't want to see anything like that Seattle protest in the U.S. ever again.

They will keep us from traveling to Latin America. And they will keep Latin Americans from coming here. They've already begun building the wall.

And if the ludicrous physical wall doesn't work, they are building this electronic one--consisting of any names associated with anti-corporate dissent, who will be barred from travel.

The war is over in Iraq. The fundamentalists won. But the other war--and perhaps the more important one to global profiteers--has just begun.



----------------------------------

(How globalization--i.e, unfair trade-- works is that the World Bank gives big loans to corrupt government officials in third world countries, and the IMF extracts, as the terms of repayment, the shutdown of social programs, and environmental and labor protections, and opening the country up to corporate exploitation--resource extraction, dumping of US ag products, sweatshop labor, etc. And while these great prices are being paid to service the debt, the corrupt officials often steal the loan funds, leaving the county helpless AND penniless. Peru just elected a very corrupt leftist, Alan Garcia, who is likely making this sort of bad bargain, and when Peru's economy lay in similar ruin, the real leftist, Ollanta Humala--who almost won this time, coming out of nowhere--will be back. Like Morales in Bolivia, Humala is 100% indigenous Andes Indian.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Thanks for all the info...

Great post !

The thought of people organizing and expressing their will
is terrorizing to them.

This is the War on Terror It's a war on us.

Most people think feudalism is dead but it's alive and well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Thanks for a very interesting post.
I knew bits and pieces of all that but when you put it together like that with your assessment if certainly sheds new light on it all. I'm going to look further into this.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. K&R for this post. - Love to see this in it's own thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. ...is this really happening??
I know it is. Somedays, it just seems so unreal. Or surreal. Something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. Getting government off your back, the Republican way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. that whole 911 thing is working out pretty damn well for them, isn't it?
Edited on Sat Oct-21-06 11:41 PM by Gabi Hayes
they've gotten EVERYTHING they've wanted so far; it's just a matter of tying up the loose ends, like setting in stone the repeal habeas corpus through some sort of 'legal' sanction via the courts.

this latest outrage, on the heels of that Military Commissions Act, really is surreal, as a previous poster has mentioned already.

I'm SO glad I got my passport renewed last year.

and, y'know, say what you will, but as I typed that passport sentence, I got a little paranoid about even putting it up here. I know for SURE that I'd never have given it a second thought before a certain point in time, but I can't even decide when that might have happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. I think there are some Congressional Pages... (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
13. "Are your papers in order?" Hmmm, they are not....I think you must
come to the office and we will examine them further.

Really, it's all about taking away our freedoms. They want to isolate Americans from the rest of the world.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. I can understand people coming into the USA, or going through it...
but people leaving the USA? Why would our government have to give our citizens approval for such a thing? That is way over the line.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
17. Why the fuck aren't conservatives and libertarians up in arms about this?
Jeezum, it just shows how meaningless and sold-out the so-called conservatoibe movement has become that they continue to support a supposedly "conservatiuve" government that is imposing vastly more on their precious "freedom" than any liberal would ever dream of doing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. Kicking & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. Bring 'em on. Let's see how long americans tolerate this. About 3 minutes.
No way will red america permit this. The only way to make sure citizens do this is to take away their guns.

This will happen right after we prohibit abortion, catch and imprison bin Laden, educate and insure every child, and draft the teenagers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. ID Tracking is already mandated for all forms of travel in the US
Edited on Sun Oct-22-06 03:10 PM by Leopolds Ghost
Car -- RFID passes (remote sensing) on all tollways and Federal Drivers License ID with biometric identifiers

(fingerprints at minimum, and retinal scans coming soon, according to some DUers who actually approve of this technology).

Non-drivers -- Pedestrian ID required for anyone who doesn't drive.

You can now be pulled aside randomly and asked to produce ID,
even if you don't drive in a state that has no "non-driver ID".

Also, non-drivers can be discriminated against, e.g. at the voting booth.

Amtrak -- Name AND photo identification required. All passengers are tracked by name, not just required to produce photo ID.

Bus -- Greyhound just implemented the same policy as Amtrak.

Subway -- Remote-sensing, trackable RFID passes to replace farecards and tokens. Steep discounts for registered users with trackable passes.

No provision for out of state users -- you must buy a $5 personal RFID pass, in addition to fares and parking fees, to park on Washingon's Metro.

Ferries -- same as bus and train.

Airplanes -- you know the drill.

Walking down the street -- network of "Total Information Awareness" cameras so cops can catch criminals using face recognition software and tracking credit card purchases.

Crossing State Lines and Residency Checkpoints -- DHS set up
checkpoints on the Louisiana border and told people listed as 9th Ward
residents to turn their vehicles around and go back to Texas.

Oh yeah... call me paranoid. "I've been called paranoid by entire
NATIONS of assholes... but I know who they are... and they're On My List!"
--R. Crumb
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Thanks for the excellent summation.
Add to this the fact that entities like Wackenhut are present at many terminals and stations, even local bus stations in small towns.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
25. What a brilliant idea. Passengers would need to check in
6 weeks before a flight. These people need to get a grip. Anyone else just sick to death of "booga, booga, booga" 24/7? As an uninsured person, I'm more likely to die from lack of medical care than anything else. Terror, to me, is untreated cancer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
26. They want to control
the first drop of water you drink when you awake to the hole you pee in before you sleep and go to that place where there are no longer dreams.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. US vith travel controll?
Hello

God know that US have been parted a long way from the "old days" if THIS is true.....

Even here in Europe, we dont "control" our sitizien with that type of controll anymore.. I guess the old East Europe was in that shape - before the Berlin Wall was falling in 1989 then.. After that, its free for all to travel where they want, even at a cruise to Florida or the keys or the Caribian...

But a nation who dont know theyr freedom that is maybee to expect when its been closed?

God bless US they NEED all the blessing the world, and our Lord can give you....

(And I really hope that the democrats beat the republicans in two weeks time.. The rest of the world NEED a little rest now from the nuttcase you have in the White house!!!)

Diclotican
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
28. They waste no time.
Permission to leave the country? Why, are you trying to hide something?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 18th 2024, 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC