Witch'attire' and smoking not allowed (somewhere I went today)

[The Straight Story]

So today we went to Circle S farms here in Ohio, was a get together for the daisy troop my wife and neighbor head up.

First alarm bell was this:

FALL FUN DAYS HARVEST FESTIVAL: October 2006, we would like to invite your school, church, company, organization, scout troop or family to the farm for a celebration of fall harvest, not Halloween (witchcraft or similar attire is not permitted on the farm). Circle S Farms is family owned and operated and we look forward to sharing our farm with you each year. A visit to Circle S Farms is a special experience for those who rarely have contact with crop production and the agriculture community.

http://www.circlesfarm.com/fallfundays.html

Second one was when I got there. Tons of no smoking signs and a sad looking woman walking about telling people to quit smoking (I have been to many farms here, this was a first).

THEN: I was in a port-a-john sneaking a smoke (my wife and her friend were with the troop) and a puppet show came over the loud speaker...

B.I.B.L.E means Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth.

And it went downhill from there.

Ok, I am a christian myself (living in fear of RW conservative chritians implementing a theocracy where my sect is labeled 'evil') and I get that this is a private business. But I must say, we all made a determination that we would never go back there. It was eerie.

My in-laws are here from CA, catholic and both elected dems. They were not sure what to think of it all except to label it 'indoctrination'.

The puppet shows with loud music talking about the 'monsters', the BIBLE thing, and the almost robotic and blank stares of the people working there scared us all.

So I say we DU em :) show up, en masse, wearing 'witch' hats and smoking. Winner is first person ejected from farm...naw, I guess that would be selfish in some ways. But still, what the hell is 'witch' attire and shouldn't they want such people there to hear the word blasted over loud speakers via puppet shows?

I personally would point such folks to the bible and ask them how much of it was spent telling believers how far off track they were. Such things led to the death of many prophets, not to mention Jesus....

[aquart]

1. Poor, poor smoker.

The years of my life that were crippled because smokers permeated every place, every moment of existence. How does it feel not to be able to go somewhere you wanted to go? How does it feel?

What goes around, comes around. Smokers ruined the lives of millions of people who just wanted to eat a meal, go to a wedding, get a haircut, work in an office. You didn't give a damn. None of you.

Remarkably like Republicans.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. You're right

cause smoking a cigarette in the open air pollutes SO MUCH more than planting those pumpkins and that corn maze...not to mention all those tourists driving their SUV's and buses out to it.

right?


:shrug:

[Dervill Crow]

17. Can't an outhouse blow up from methane when you smoke in there?

That doesn't sound like a fun trip at all.

In Ohio . . . I'm not from around those parts, but IIRC a lot of farms in times past would put "hex" signs on their barns, didn't they, to protect their livestock? That seems kind of witchy to me. Okay, that's Pennsylvania Dutch, but PA is next to Ohio.

People are so weird. Wish I was there to invade their farm with a bunch of friends, all of us wearing lots of silver jewelry, crystals, and tie dye. Oh, and I'm wearing pink socks with bats and spiders and skulls on them, only because it's October. I'd show them witch attire, all right.

[johnaries]

3. Ah, you might want to re-read the post.

You're obviously clueless.

[Red Right and BLUE]

5. Oh jeebus, that's just a little over-the-top...

:nopity:


And I hate smoke.

[youthere]

53. I'm there with you...

I read it and said to myself "here we go again"
:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

6. Here we go again.

:eyes: There seems to be more than one kind of religious insanity.

[Bluebear]

19. Has it only been, oh, 2 hours?

Since another anti-smoking post? :)

[Kurovski]

25. LOL!

:spank:

Should we start a thread about outing? :evilgrin:

[ikojo]

33. What about outing people who eat OUT at

Olive Garden?

[Fleshdancer]

52. don't you DARE!

I don't think GD can handle an Olive Garden battle. :scared:

[TahitiNut]

47. They aren't "anti-smoking" as much as they're "anti-smoker" ...

... and I see a GREAT difference between the two. It's a bit like the "anti-leprosy" folks of the 19th century ... every bit as insanely exaggerated in terms of any danger to others and every bit as pathologically "blame the victim" in nature.

My father was a smoker and drinker who died of a massive coronary in a bar while doing both. He was dead before he hit the floor. I would NEVER attempt to abridge anyone's right to drink or smoke - even in my company. No matter what imagined 'threat' to my health they might pose with their behavior, it's far, far less then the threat to their own health and far less important than my liberal principles that impel me to support another's rights ... even to be wrong.

What I find appalling about these 'discussions' is their antisocial and illiberal "me first!" self-centeredness. I have not seen a single smoker in the last 10-20 years, either deliberately or with reckless disregard, smoking where non-smokers aren't voluntarily present. Not once has a smoker lit up in my home or car without my clear permission - and even then they often voluntarily go outside. At the same time, I've seen an uncountable number of instance where anti-smokers have deliberately gone out of their way to complain.

It seems abundantly clear to me that such behavior has less to do with smoking (or drinking) than in wallowing in self-righteous MOB RULE over others - exercise of power for power's sake. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with communitarian or liberal beliefs. Nothing.

[Bluebear]

65. :nodding head:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Change has come]

11. Well said

:applause:


:smoke: :dem:

[WHAT]

9. Fire, I think it's a...

dunno?...

Inflamatory comment, though.

I don't understand the point unless it was meant to be purely incendiary/manipulative???

:smoke:

[High Plains]

10. Wow. Somebody has issues.

[saracat]

14. What the heck is wrong with you? The OP seems to be posting

about religious hypocrisy and bigoted fundamentalism and you are bent about smoking? Get real. I was a smoker for years and just decided to quit.I haven't smoked for 4 years but it doesn't bother bme if others do and I will defend their right to. Smoking is legal as is drinking.If you don't like it go places they don't smoke.(Or maybe you are just joking? irony? )

[Vidar]

16. I'm a lifetime non-smoker who finds you intolerance incredible.

"years of your life were crippled?" Pretty feeble understanding of the word "crippled" and an insult to both smokers and the genuinely handicapped.

[The Straight Story]

20. Same with witches and their attire, forcing kids to see it

polluting their mind with their infernal ways.

Second hand smoke? No different to some than second hand seeing people dressed as witches and polluting their kids' minds.

The smoking part there I can get, but roll both together and the picture gets more interesting.

[crikkett]

34. Now, now.

As an EX-smoker I can sympathize a little.

It's not that smokers don't give a damn, many just can't smell it and don't get how bothersome it is to non-smokers. Then, there's the addiction.

Don't be one of those holier-than-thou's. They're Remarkably like Republicans.

[Thegonagle]

36. THAT pretty much sums it up

says this ex-smoker.

(And I want to add "cram it!," but my post count isn't high enough yet.)

[crikkett]

48. welcome to du!

:hi:

[Greyhound]

56. So, what is to you, an unpleasant odor has ruined your life?

I think a re-evaluation is in order.

[The Magistrate]

4. That Sounds A Grim Place, Mr. Story

How did the children take it?

[The Straight Story]

21. Scary really, kids ate it up, as did their parents

While standing in line for hay ride tickets a woman came out and told people to put out their smokes. I could just see her telling people to remove their with hats or shirts as well (and I later went to the circleville pumpkin show and saw people with them 'evil satan shirts').

Seeing someone smoking outside or dressed in a way not considered 100% 'christian' seems to scare some folks - not sure why really....

Hell, I am tolerant, and accept that they are a family owned farm with their own values. But I still, personally anyway, see this all as a bit over the top. I felt like a sinner there ready to be re-educated, and I just turned 41 on friday and I have spent a lot of time since I was 11 studying the bible and educating myself on it and a host of authors relating to it (so much so I collect works from the 1800's on theology). Yet here I stood in their midst feeling like an outcast.

Was damned scary to me and I will never go back. Jesus camp ain't got much on this place :)

[Irreverend IX]

39. They should have gone all the way...

And had a "Young Crusaders Training Ground" for the kids, where they would take plastic swords and dart guns and attack scarecrows made to look like different "enemies of Christ." There would be scarecrows with turbans, scarecrows painted in dark colors, pairs of male scarecrows with color-coordinated clothes holding hands, and a Hillary Clinton scarecrow. Indoctrination for all the family.

[FlaGranny]

40. Hey, I would

tell you to put out your smoke too if you were going on a hay ride. Very flammable stuff, that hay. :-)

[The Straight Story]

57. Well in all fairness to the guy they told to quit, he was in parking lot

standing about 7 feet from his car (he had just parked, got out and hopped into back of line). No where near the hay :) but loads of mud and water.

[FlaGranny]

63. Indeed, but

the juxtaposition of hay with cigarettes was too good to pass up. ;-)

[The Magistrate]

64. You May Find It, My Friend, A Useful Experience

Something to give you an understanding of how a number of people less religious than you, or of a different religion, experience some displays of intense religiousity, and why they react to them as they do. It is always good to find overlaps of experience, to appreciate how it feels in the other fellow's shoes.

[unschooler]

7. Well, witches are pretty dangerous, ya know....

[The Straight Story]

22. My daughter has dressed up as a witch, have the photo on the fridge

irks my fundie sister who won't decorate for halloween or celebrate it at all.

I guess she thinks my 5 yr old is going to hell because she dressed up in a certain way. yeah, that's family values! ;)

[Kurovski]

26. The reality is more likely to be loads of pin-stripes in hell.

[youthere]

54. That's hilarious!

I had a fundie lady tell me my daughter was going to turn "lesbanian" because her hair was short.

[TimeChaser]

12. Because Wiccans always dress up in stereotypical witch clothes

:eyes:

[misternormal]

45. Yep... Wiccans and pagans...

... just automatically change their attire, and look like stereotypical witches.

Watch out, one might be standing in front of you in the store.. :sarcasm:

[jeff30997]

13. Creepy ! Indoctrination indeed.

They should change their name for: Jim Jones Land.

[justice1]

15. We have become less tolerant of others as a nation.

It's obvious from the link that the people that own it are religious, and they ask for people not to smoke because of the dry conditions. They could have just said "No Smoking" and it still would have been reasonable.

Just because something isn't to your liking, it doesn't mean you should harass the next person who does enjoy it.

Banning smoking in public buildings isn't out of line, banning smoking in restaurants and bars that are owned by private individuals is.

[SeattleVet]

18. Depending on what the farm's growing, they may not want smoking

beacuse of tobacco mosaic virus. If someone crushes a butt they can carry active virus around on their shoes and spread it around. The ban on smoking is pretty common on a lot of farms.

From WikiPedia entry on tobacco mosaic virus:
In plants, tobacco mosaic virus leads to severe crop losses. It is known to infect members of nine plant families, and at least 125 individual species, including tobacco, tomato, pepper, cucumbers, and a number of ornamental flowers. There are many different strains.

Here's additional information, from the University of Minnesota Extension, about the disease and it's control:

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1168.html

[The Straight Story]

24. I will go out on a limb here and say that is not the reason,

more like because it is considered a sin.

I have been to Lynd's fruit farm this year, and not a word about smoking (or witches).

It seems sinful actions are not welcome in some places, although pinning people down on what sin is can be tricky....

[The Straight Story]

23. The thing with the smoking:

They are the only farm I have been to that does, and conditions were no where near dry (in fact, we had to come home and change due to all the mud on us all).

If it were just the smoking I would not care one iota or even posted this. It was the whole 'don't sin and do things our way or go to hell' that got me riled up a bit.

The whole puppet show went on for two hours, talking about Jesus making touchdowns (like OSU) to monsters and demons, etc. I got an eerie feeling there, and this is coming from a guy who at 16 was a member of a pentecostal church by choice and baptised in one.

I pray daily, and thank god each day for things, etc. But these folks seemed a tad over the top for me, and that is saying a lot.

Then I went to the Circleville Pumpkin show, where I saw people holding signs up high for blackwell. I stopped in the Dem HQ's and got some Strickland signs. No one in there but me and some old man who could not hear. A solitary place sadly. Makes me wonder about some of my fellow Ohians.

[theHandpuppet]

37. Are you familiar with the "Ohio Restoration" movement?

These folks sound like they are involved as footsoldiers for it.

These links are a MUST READ.
http://www.ohiorestorationproject.com/
http://blog.au.org/2005/03/ohio_restoratio.html
http://www.frederickclarkson.com/2005_06_12_fredclarkson_archive.html
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/BlackwellAndChristianRightOhio.html
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/217/

[justice1]

61. The reasons behind my opinion

For the most part, how a company is run shouldn't be dictated by moral police. If a business wants to embrace what is perceived to be immoral or puritanical, they should have the opportunity. The consumer would ultimately decide what is acceptable by it's spending habits.

Politicians need to get out of setting community standards, and religions have to abstain from the legislature or lose their non-profit status.

[demwing]

27. So let me get this straight...

You went to a family operated, privately held business, where the NO SMOKING signs were obvious, and you smoked anyway? Nice.

But more importantly, after realizing that this privately held business was religiously oriented, you stayed for the full monty, and now you complain?

One thing that I've always told the fundies I've debated, when the topic of inappropriate movies or television came up, is that it is a free country, and that they were free to change the chanel or leave the theater. Free also to ask for a refund, if you believe you've purchased a product that was falsely advertised.

You had that same freedom, and chose not to excercise your right.

BTW - I ran a Google search on this place, and found this on the web site:

SMOKING: Circle S Farms is a "smoke-free" area and is strictly prohibited on the grounds during Fall Fun Days. Although we are an outdoor event, there is dry straw and corn shocks. This policy is strictly enforced. Thank you for your understanding.

Seems the place actually has a sensible reason for asking you to not smoke--not that they have to justify the request. It's dangerous to smoke there!

But I really don't care about your smoking habit. I'm concerned that there's one rule we apply to conservatives (if you don't like it - don't watch it!) and another we apply to ourselves (if I don't like it, I'll make it difficult on THEM).

[The Straight Story]

29. Were it only the no-smoking thing I would have been OK

but it was that plus the no-witch attire followed by the whole puppet thing that got to me.

No smoking on a farm is ok by me, thought I have been to many here in Ohio from southern ohio to northern and this was the only one I have ever been to that was no smoking from the parking lot on.

No smoking in the parking lot where your car is? How is that dangerous?

Try walking in with a witch hat, and you will see that they see that as just as dangerous as the smoking. That is what got me more than anything. Adding the two together only made it worse.

I have visited Lynd's farm, fredonia fall celebration, and about 22 others here in Ohio from Amish country to city farms and this was a first. I have been to a state park (slate run) and visited a barn and went on a hayride there and it was not this restrictive.

I would like to see you show up with a 'witch hat' and see them explain WHY it was so bad. The reason I was given is that it was a bad influence on young people and folks in general. Pretty much as bad in their eyes as smoking.

So IS IT as bad? Is second hand withcery as bad as smoking? To these people it is. Dressing up is the same as second hand smoke. Pretty damned scary to me, maybe not to others though....

[demwing]

31. It doesn't matter WHY

Its a privately owned business. They can make that choice. Likewise, we can think it weird, and chose to not go there, and encourage our friends and families to not go there.

What we should not do is advocate the "in your face" response. Not if we want to be taken seriously on anti-censorship issues.

Hell, I grew up in Southern California in the 70s and 80s. At one time, I had a 7 inch blue mohawk, and was denied entrance to Disneyland because of it. So I have personal experience in a similar situation.

I was pissed, but so what. It's not like I was denied entrance to a library or a courthouse, or some other public building. I have no right to go to Disneyland. It is a privilege (in some people's opinion - lol), and I am subject to the house rules while there.

We should be be defending the wackos and nut jobs, before the right to be a nut job is taken away, and we find ourselves defending the right to be liberals, or the right to just be ourselves.

[uppityperson]

32. Indeed. Private property, can make their own rules.

You can chose to go and stay within their rules or not go. It is private property and they can set their own rules.

[The Straight Story]

50. I'm not trying to take away anyones rights here

just would be nice to educate some folks instead of sitting idly by while they promote hate and fear.

The reason their views are so popular in areas is because they did try to change others. Via boycotts, door to door preaching, and so on people work to get their message out to educate others. We live in the 21st century and there is still a wash of ignorance and fear. Sure people should be allowed to have it, but that does not mean I should not be allowed to challenge it (as they do me).

[demwing]

60. Let me take a step back for a sec

I don't care about smoking. I'm an ex-smoker who'll tell you if you're bothering me, and if you're not, I don't care what you do to your lungs. They are, after all, your lungs, not mine. :)

I agree with you that the religious aspect of this business is enough for me to avoid it in the future.

And I do not think you are actively trying to take away their rights.

What I think is that it is wrong to get in their face about what they do on their own property. You said that DUers should go their wearing witch clothes (whatever THAT means :P ) and smoking.

You didn't advocate education, you advocated instigation

Say you ran a business that allowed smoking, and advocated racial equality. Then, pretend some KKK member showed up in full pillow case garb, snatching peoples cigarettes.

Would you feel at all open to their message, or would you start KKKicking asses out the door? I know what I would do.

Civil liberties don't just apply when its convenient. The real test of a free society is when we can apply those liberties to every member of society - even, no... especially to those whose beliefs we find repugnant.

[Jamastiene]

28. Nevermind the smoking part.

Smokers have become the new lepers in our modern age. I don't like it, but that's the way it is in many places.

Once I saw the sign that said no witches attire, however, I would have done a 180 and split. I would know that's not my type of place if they have that attitude.

[Demit]

41. More than lepers, smokers are the allowable whipping boys.

Everybody has to have somebody they can heap scorn and contempt on, even liberals. A group they can unleash their pent-up anger and hostility on and not have to worry about being politically incorrect. The poster at #1 probably thinks of himself as a liberal. But he sure knows how to hate and he doesn't mind showing it. He knows he has an amen chorus here.

[Raine]

30. No smoking I can understand

with harvest stuff around they probably don't want to catch the place on fire but no witch costumes is screwy. x(

[sweetpotato]

35. War on Halloween!!!!

Its the war on Halloween!

They are just doing their part in the war.

[LWolf]

38. It went over the top for me with the puppet show.

I went to the local pumpkin patch with my family last weekend.

They don't call it a harvest festival or celebration, although they do have a "harvest market" where you can purchase gourds, cornstalks, etc..

There are no costume requirements, although why anyone would want to wear a halloweeen costume to wander around out in acres of pumpkins, the corn maze, ride a pony, etc., I don't know. We didn't see any costumes. I didn't see signs about smoking, either, although I'd advise against it. There is the 7 acre corn maze full of dried corn stalks, and the mountains of big straw bales made into climbing/playing spaces for the kids; I'd hate to see it all go up in flames from a carelessly dropped or half-extinguished cigarette.

This local farm opens for the entire month of October every year. There is some local performing music, mostly country/rock, places for kids to play, hay rides, pony rides, a petting "farm," the corn maze, and pumpkin cannons. And, of course, the pumpkin patch itself.

I'm sorry that your local pumpkin patch has decided to polarize your community with its choice of activities.

[Dick Diver]

42. Not sure why you went

since you have complaints about the attire and smoking policies. However, both are CLEARLY posted on the first page their website, the link for which you were kind enough to provide:

SMOKING: Circle S Farms is a "smoke-free" area and is strictly prohibited on the grounds during Fall Fun Days. Although we are an outdoor event, there is dry straw and corn shocks. This policy is strictly enforced. Thank you for your understanding.

FALL FUN DAYS HARVEST FESTIVAL: October 2006, we would like to invite your school, church, company, organization, scout troop or family to the farm for a celebration of fall harvest, not Halloween (witchcraft or similar attire is not permitted on the farm).

So, summarizing, you went to a pay event sponsored by a private organization who posts the rules right up front and come back to complain about the rules?

[The Straight Story]

51. Wife and other troop leader had already made plans to go

And needed me there. And I think it would have been just fine until that bizzare puppet show started. It was over the top and when it all rolled together it prompted my OP.

And I didn't have to pay anything myself as I did not escort the group back for the hay ride and such. I stayed near the muddy parking lot part of the time, where I pondered what would happen should I light up and put a witch hat on :)


Sad thing is, they would probably treat me worse over the hat than the smoking.

[fed-up]

43. When we lived in Sonora, CA we went to an Easter Egg hunt open to the

public at a local church, which also included a one hour religious puppet show along with a skit or two. We had to wander around the church grounds because the advertised starting time for the hunt was actually about an hour earlier than the actual hunt.

That was the last time we went to that hunt!

Just another marketing ploy to recruit new members...

[alarimer]

44. Well I guess they won't be burning any witches at least

since they don't allow smoking.

[NoPasaran]

46. Burning witches is so Fourteenth Century!

Nowadays they just pop 'em in the microwave!

[bullwinkle428]

49. Awaiting O'Reilly's rant about the Fundies' War on Halloween!

:rofl:

[depakid]

55. Perhaps unwittingly, Circle S gave you

some Halloween heebie jeebies...;-)

Talk about a spookhouse...errr spookfarm.

[silverweb]

58. Non-issue.

As others have said, it's their private property and that means they get to make the rules. If you don't like them, don't go there.

:eyes:

[The Straight Story]

67. I somewhat beg to differ

You are of course, correct. But the bleeding ignorance there should at least be challenged. To me they are discriminating based on a person's religion (wiccan, et al) and they are free to do so, but I am damned well free to call em on their hate promoting crap and bitch about it.

If they banned rainbow tshirts (which I am probably guessing they would, perhaps I should show up wearing one and see what they do) people might be a tad more ticked off and call em on it, but because it is directed at witches some aren't bothered by it. A throwback to the dark ages imho.

[Scout]

59. I agree, creepy, weird experience. EXCEPT for the no smoking part

dude, on a farm, there's hay, straw, wood--lots of flammable stuff. I don't have a problem with the no smoking on a private property farm.

But yeah, the other stuff about no witch attire and the puppet show, is too strange.

[The Straight Story]

66. I can dig that mostly

except not only is the first one I have been to with no smoking outdoors, but you could not even smoke in the parking lot where there was not an ounce of flammable material, but lots of mud and gravel.

Had it just been no smoking, I wouldn't have cared :) The whole thing was damned eerie and I grew up a fundie myself and my sister still is.

[walldude]

62. Ok I just want to say something on this smoking thing,

I'm not even going to respond to the first reply in this thread, I'm not up for lunacy. However there are a number of posts complaining because TSS snuck a smoke in the PORTA POTTY! Folks, have you ever been in a freakin porta potty? I'll take the death dealing :eyes: smell of a cigarette over the foul stench of a porta potty any day.


This place reminds me of those "Christian Haunted Houses" that pop up every year. You know, the ones that show car wrecks and abortions and the "non-saved" burning in hell. :eyes: