Which Faction Is Stupid?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

One of the choices are to blame for our current predicament.

[nam78_two]

1. A bit of both maybe? /nt

[Mojambo]

2. The government IS the people

So no one is innocent on that score.

[MindPilot]

8. it used to be...

my government had lots of smart people like John kennedy and Barry Goldwater. Maybe they were sometimes not on the correct side of the political fence, but they were anything but dumb. Now, with a few notable exceptions, 'tis a parliament of dumbth.

And 30% of Americans are dumb enough to think they're smart. Obviously there is enough stupid for everyone to have big portions and seconds.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

3. You're An American Person. Are You Stupid?

Choosing the second option would deem that you were. Since choosing the latter would encompass every one of us, and choosing the former is probably not accurate, this is basically a pretty darn ineffective poll.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

4. Now, how do you know I'm an American?

Just because I live here?

I threw this country out for the count as long as this administration was in power.

[Big Kahuna]

5. I'd have to say the people are stupid.

...or comfortably numb, intellectually lazy, and easily to lulled to sleep by the media.

The government is rather smart, in that it milks these people for all their worth.

[lvx35]

7. Yeah, that's the trick in the question...

Whose STUPID. The administration sure isn't stupid, so I guess that leaves us. But as far as who's EVIL, well now that's a different poll!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. As H.L. Mencken prophetically said:

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

10. Hily shit! I have never read that one. Leave it to Mencken. Thanks. n/t

[lvx35]

9. The people aren't really dumb.

And that's really the core idea of democrats and democracy. The alternative in the US is the statement that the people need to be represented by specialists with greater knowledge of affairs, giving us the idea of the republic vs the democracy, and the advocate of this ideal therefore labeled 'republican'. The republican believes we should be run by an elite, usually the richest cruelest sons of bitches. Where we are today is a product of THAT ideology, not the Democratic ideology.

[Ron Green]

13. Most of the people aren't very smart, either.

And that's why there must be a representative government rather than a direct one, which would be some kind of mob rule. The question is "Who are the best and brightest to rule?" Republicans think it's people like Cheney. Democrats would prefer people like Clinton.

[lvx35]

24. Yeah, an average IQ of about 100...

but still smart enough to think a unilateral attack on Iraq was a bad idea. (70% thought we should only attack with UN blessing or not at all) We shouldn't forget that the worst things Bush has done were unpopular at the inception, and are unpopular now. The people tried to support the Iraq war once it started, but now are against it again. The people are not to blame for this mess at all, its Bush.

edit: just reread this. Not the people are somewhat to blame, I can't deny. All I'm saying is that with good leadership the potential of the people is limitless.

[Ron Green]

40. I agree with you that good leadership is the key.

Elected officials have to not only carry out the "will of the people" (whatever the hell that is!), but also educate and challenge the masses to engage their higher minds and higher selves. But it's just too easy to let the free market give people what they really want, which is American Idol and lots of crap from China.

[lvx35]

41. Yeah, I agree about "higher selves totally

Or the potential of what we could be, rather than what we are. For instance, with Chinese crap and American Idol, there is this sense that its what we want, but with deeper knowledge it turns out to not be what we want at all...We don't really want to sit on our couches rotting while we watch others suck, or sell out our childrens future as jobs move to China - but we lack the awareness to know that's what we are really doing. I think a great leader than has to be a lightbringer, he or she needs to bring awareness to us above all else.

[BlooInBloo]

15. Yes they are. Americans are, by and large, blithering idiots.

[John Gauger]

19. Do you know that,

or is that just what you have been told? I would agree that people certainly need to pay more attention to what is really going on, but I find that most people can eventually be reasoned with. I was once just as complacent as most Americans, but I woke up. I think most Americans are misguided, but I don't believe they are stupid. I hear that a lot, and every time I have to question just who it is that is telling me that and why.

[BlooInBloo]

21. I know that.

[lvx35]

27. That must be why we created cars.

and airplanes. And the technology behind the Internet. And Hollywood. And on and on, pretty much most of the great technological advances of the 20th century. Its because we're idiots.

[John Gauger]

30. Cars were invented in Germany.

And I wouldn't call Hollywood a great invention. More like blight upon the earth. Hollywood is geared towards keeping people enslaved by their corporate masters.

[lvx35]

31. Modern, industrialized auto manufacture is pure US.

speaking of blights upon the earth. America was, and remains, the most car centric culture on earth. We produce more than any other country, and that mass production was our innovation. But do you really want to assert that American innovation on the whole in the 20th century was somehow below any other country? You've got so much to disprove that...space travel, aeuronautics, etc.

oh yeah, and don't forget, weapons! In that area we are undisputed kings of innovation....We brought the world nukes!

[John Gauger]

32. Hey, I didn't say we never led the world technologically.

I just wanted to point out that the car was invented in Germany. I don't suppose that matters, because more innovation occurred here. And that Hollywood isn't something to be proud of. I know all about cars' ill effects. And don't get me started on weapons.

[lvx35]

34. fair nuff...

I suppose we can't take the blame for ALL the bad stuff in the world, the Germans certainly have made their unique contributions. ;)

[BlooInBloo]

33. You're an EXCELLENT example. I'm talking about IS...

you're talking about WAS.

Thank you for contributing - I couldn't have *possibly* put it any better.

[lvx35]

35. So its just the Americans under six years old that are stupid?

The ones born in the 21st century, because they 20th century Americans I was refering to are part of the "was" not the "is"? You don't sound like too much of a rocket scientist yourself there cowboy.

[BlooInBloo]

38. rofl!!! stop - please - can't take any more!

[lvx35]

39. Oh, did widdle baby think that funny???

Kitchy Koo! Cute little intellectual elistist baby likes ticklies! yes he does! yes he does! awwwwww....

[Homer Wells]

11. I'd have to go with the People

The Government knows exactly what it is doing. It is heartless, self-aggrandizing, self-serving, callous, even Evil, but it is NOT stupid.
The people, on the other hand, would have to be pretty damn stupid to fall for the government's bullshit for such a long time.
Ignorance implies a lack of knowledge, easily cured by education.
Stupid, on the other hand, is refusing to be educated even when faced with the incontrovertible evidence of that Evil.
Thank God that "the People" does not refer to all of us.

[leftofthedial]

12. both

although the "government" is made up of a large proportion of cunning criminals, while the public is overwhelmingly stupid.

[John Gauger]

14. You can't pick one over the other.

Obviosly the government is responsible for this mess. But the people's ignorance and apathy cause all problems in this country indirectly. You can't say it is exclusively the governemt's fault. But to blame the people would deny that the government was acting against the will of the people.

[BlooInBloo]

16. They were elected by whom again?

Regardless of any stolen election stuff - the people generally speaking put the politicians there. Whatever the politicians do is therefore the voters' fault.

[John Gauger]

18. I agree, but

The politicians are also responsible for their own actions. You can't say one over the other because both are responsible. To exclude one would be folly. And they are acting against our will - Noam Chomsky calls it manufacturing consent. We don't really approve of their policies - or rather we wouldn't under normal circumstances - but they convince us with help from their friends in the media that we do. Perhaps it would be better to say that we were never presented with a debate on the issues. We have just been told that there was a debate, and their positions, their policies are the result of that fictitious debate.

[BlooInBloo]

20. Of course you can. Duh.

Do you blame the snake for biting, or do you blame the jackass who put the snake in your bed?

Sheesh. It isn't hard.

[John Gauger]

22. That's a poor analogy.

That snake was only doing what came naturally to it. It didn't know what it was doing was wrong. And the American people are not trying to destroy this country as the jackass with the snake is trying to destroy me. You can't reasonably say that that snake is guilty. But you can't reasonably say that they corrupt politicians are innocent. The politicians bear primary responsibility for their own misdeeds. I'm not excusing the flaws of the people, but you can't say they hold the sole responsibility.

[BlooInBloo]

23. It's a fine analogy. The politicians are *known ahead of time* quantities...

... and that suffices for the analogy to be a good one.

[John Gauger]

25. "Known ahead of time?"

Are you suggesting that the American people are fully aware of how harmful the candidates that they are voting for will be to this country? And even assuming that the voters are intentionally attempting to harm this country (which is quite an assumption,) it does not exhonerate the politicians. If a mob boss hires an assassin to kill somebody, not only the mob boss but also the hit man goes to jail. The pertpetrator of the crime is just as culpable as the initiator of the crime. But I do not blame the snake because it is not capable of making rational, moral judgements. Biting is its natural response to being thrown in my bed with me. The politicians are capable of making rational, moral judgements and therefore are responsible for their actions.

[BlooInBloo]

26. Of course they do - that's why they campaign. Duh.

The voters don't CARE about the harm done to their own country. They just want to get the ragheads and stop the fags from marrying and stop those whining negroes from recovering.

[John Gauger]

28. I don't know about you,

but when I tell people that the two major candidates are going to kill this country and that both of them are unacceptable, they tend to look at me like I'm crazy. I have never encountered an American voter who was intentially trying to harm this country. When these politcians campaign, they talk about how they are going to help this country, not harm it. I can see that their policies are going to do harm, and you can, but most people can't. Even assuming that most politcians are being honest about what policies they embrace, the people pick policies based on what good they think they will do, not what harm. I'm not just talking about policies that hurt others - I'm talking about policies that hurt themselves. They vote for policies that they think will be beneficial to them but are actually harmful.

[understandinglife]

17. "We the People .... Have No Clothes"

http://missionnotaccomplished.us/WTPv17n.pdf


Never Forget: George W. Bush willfully violated National Security to cover-up his willful launch of a war of aggression and illegal occupation of Iraq.

[otherlander]

29. The American people aren't dumb so much as they're ignorant.

I think the average person is capable of forming intelligent ideas about the government, but they don't, because A) they don't care about it because it doesn't affect them directly (a lot of the middle class), or B) they're so busy working for not much money and figuring out how to survive that they don't have time to think about anything else (A lot of the working class).

And isn't that really the only reason we need a Congress? In theory, people could vote for laws directly. But not that many people want to spend their spare time studying legislation.

[proud patriot]

36. bogus choices

I'm not playing :pout:

[Hippo_Tron]

37. I'm from New Orleans so I'm going to go with our government

Maybe not stupid but certainly incompetent. I think that when Bush was elected we pretty much knew that if a disaster like Katrina happened, he would probably fall asleep at the wheel. However, we assumed that he would have a competent advisor in place to do the work for him and not incompetent cronies like Chertoff and Brown. Bad assumption I suppose.