Police Round Up Sex Offenders To Protect Trick-or-Treaters

[StraightDope]

http://www.wtov9.com/news/10146149/detail.html

With the number of registered sex offenders on the rise, authorities in Allen county, Ohio decided to take action to keep the convicted criminals away from children.

Police said they plan to round up every person convicted of a sex crime and keep them under supervision, but according to Jefferson county prosecutor Tom Straus, doing so would violate sex offenders' constitutional rights.

<more>

This is outrageous. What the hell ever happened to paying your debt to society, and that being the end of one's punishment?

[beam me up scottie]

1. The Constitution and Bill of Rights are now obsolete.

I feel so much safer.

[Horse with no Name]

2. Nothing amazes me anymore

Why is Halloween different than any other day? If these people are dangerous on that day, they are dangerous on any other day of the year.

[StraightDope]

5. Yes, but no other holiday is so close to election day...

Prosecutor and/or judges wouldn't want to look soft on child molestors, would they?

:sarcasm:

[TahitiNut]

3. !

:popcorn: Let's see what the Nanny State 'liberals' have to say. :popcorn:

[Glorfindel]

4. Constitutional rights? We don't need no stinkin' constitutional rights...

It's time for preventive detention! Unless you're a wealthy Repuke politician, in which case it's time for rehab, detox, LOADS of sympathy, and a national best-seller blaming everyone but yourself for your problems.

[LeftyMom]

6. Why am I not surprised it's Allen County?

Holy fuck, I've never met so many sheeple in my life as I met there.

[DRoseDARs]

7. God forbid they simply increase patrols or just encourage parents to participate with the kids. n/t

...ipate with the kids. n/t



Edit: Well, that's different. The subject bar got cut off.

[WindRavenX]

8. wtf

WTF is wrong with this country? :wtf:

[Webster Green]

9. More evidence that mass psychosis is afoot in Amurka...

Ergot in the rye?:*

[StraightDope]

11. More like Prozac on the brain...

:P

[Clark2008]

10. To be honest, pedophilia isn't curable, so there's really

no "paying your debt to society" here.

Yes, I've heard of the one or two pedophiles who researchers CLAIM to have been cured, but the vast majority offend again and again.

Keeping them under supervision, i.e. watching them, is fine by me. I wouldn't condone locking them up for having committed no new crime - that's absolutely unConstitutional (like it matters in today's America), but I have no problem with the police, the neighborhood, teachers, whomever watching them more closely.

[StraightDope]

12. According to "experts"...

Alcoholism isn't curable either. So what to do with the repeat DUI offender? Lifetime surveillance? To whom do we entrust that responsibility?

I'm just asking.

[cigsandcoffee]

50. Alcoholism isn't a violent crime, though.

That's kind of an apples and oranges thing.

[dysfunctional press]

58. if they have access to a car, it is.

why are multiple dui offenders treated better than pedo's...?

[Dorian Gray]

61. Jail for life...

which is what they should do for repeat offenders of pedophilia.

I am uncomfortable with this move about surveiling all sex offenders, as someone taking a "leak" while drunk could be booked for indecent exposure, a sex offence. And they have, presumably, served their time, so they shouldn't be subjected to this kind of reaction. But, when I recently learned that there are 35 sex offenders within a 15 block radius of my apartment in Brooklyn, I started becoming a bit more paranoid about having children grow up here. It's such a sad world. And my gut says one thing while my intellect says another.

[madmusic]

15. Got stats to back that up?

'Cause it's false.

[beam me up scottie]

17. Beat me to it.

:thumbsup:

[madmusic]

18. The GOP moral panic machine did it's job. n/t

[StraightDope]

25. That's what I've heard from AA/12-step types for years.

Alcoholism is incurable, an alcoholic will ALWAYS be an alcoholic.

Personally I don't buy it, but that's what I've always been told by mental health "professionals".

[Kire]

55. "Alcoholism" is incurable

But the obsession to drink can be lifted with the right program.

[beam me up scottie]

16. They're rounding them up, not just "watching" them.

Hell, why not just burn a scarlet letter P on their foreheads?

Parents are responsible for keeping their children supervised.

The government has no right to round up innocent people just "in case" they might break the law.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Great points!

(good to see you again!!! It's been too long.) :hug:

[beam me up scottie]

22. I missed you too!

I hope you and yours are settled in and happy at last. :hug:

[mongo]

19. So what then?

Put them under house arrest? Post a cop at every ones door? How about a manditory BEWARE sign for each front yard?

You know, the sex offender list is made up of all sorts of people besides pedophiles and rapists.

And of course, they are only dangerous on Halloween, right?

the vast majority offend again and again.

Want to provide some proof of that statement? Because it's absolute and utter bullshit!

While often considered highly dangerous by the public once released from prison, sex offenders have a relatively low recidivism rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender

It is noteworthy that recidivism rates for sex offenders are lower than for the general criminal population.

http://www.csom.org/pubs/mythsfacts.html

Much of the concern over sex offenders stems from the perception that if they have committed one sex offense, they are almost certain to commit more. This is the reason given for why sex offenders (instead of, say, murderers or armed robbers) should be monitored and separated from the public once released from prison.

The high recidivism rate among sex offenders is repeated so often that it is usually accepted as truth, but in fact recent studies show that the recidivism rates for sex offenses is not unusually high. According to a U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics study ("Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994"), just five percent of sex offenders followed for three years after their release from prison in 1994 were arrested for another sex crime. A study released in 2003 by the Bureau found that within three years, 3.3 percent of the released child molesters were arrested again for committing another sex crime against a child. Three to five percent is hardly a high repeat offender rate.

In the largest and most comprehensive study ever done of prison recidivism, the Justice Department found that sex offenders were in fact less likely to reoffend than other criminals. The 2003 study of nearly 10,000 men convicted of rape, sexual assault, and child molestation found that sex offenders had a re-arrest rate 25 percent lower than for all other criminals. Part of the reason is that serial sex offenders—those who pose the greatest threat—rarely get released from prison, and the ones who do are unlikely to re-offend.

http://www.livescience.com/othernews/060516_predator_panic.html

[StraightDope]

23. Excellent statistics.

Shows the lie of "Pedophiles can't be cured!"

They can't be cured of their attraction to children, perhaps. But they evidently CAN keep from actually abusing another child.

Modern-day witch hunt if you ask me. We're all disgusted by child-molesters, but we'd all do well to remember that they are still people, like it or not.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. The Research Is Mixed At Best...

A number of proposed treatment techniques for pedophilia have been developed. Many regard pedophilia as highly resistant to psychological interference and have dismissed as ineffective most "reparative strategies."<36> Others, such as Dr. Fred Berlin, believe pedophilia can "indeed be successfully treated," if only the medical community would give it more attention.<21> The reported success rate of modern "reparative" treatment on pedophiles is very low.<36>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile

[Der Blaue Engel]

34. If so, then they shouldn't have been let out in the first place

But you do know that "sex crimes" don't particularly have to be pedophilia, right? Violent and predatory criminals, especially repeat offenders should be differentiated from the vague catch-all term "sex crimes," but under current laws, they are not, and there is frequently little distinction between misdemeanors and felonies.

The problem with this sort of thinking (that it's okay to round 'em up, or punish them further in some way for the safety of the children) is that it flies in the face of our justice system. Either the sentences are just or they're not. If they're not, we need to change the sentencing laws, not violate them for the greater good.

There is a proposition on the ballot in California (83) that would bar registered sex offenders from living in any urban areas (based on proximity to parks or schools) and require them to wear a GPS tracking ankle bracelet for the rest of their lives. It also increases penalties for such things as "lewd and lascivious acts" and shortens the age difference required to define "aggravated sexual assault of a child" (e.g., an adult who has a relationship with teenager, say a 24-yr-old with a 17-yr-old, will be considered to have committed aggravated sexual assault of a child). This is an appalling proposition, riddled with bad ideas that will cost the state millions, will accomplish little, and sets a dangerous precedent. I hope Californians are reading this law carefully.

[whistle]

13. How many would that involve across the country, 28 million?

[Yavin4]

14. Mark Foley Just Can't Catch A Break, Can He?

I can't believe that it took 12 posts before a Mark Foley joke.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. Call Me Illiberal...

But you have to be a seriously disturbed individual to molest a child and by child I mean child... I'm not referring to a twenty year old having sex with a sixteen year old but a fifty year old man sexually assaulting a prebuscent boy or girl...

Just sick...

Just plain sick...

[beam me up scottie]

24. Right, and everyone else here thinks it's admirable.

:eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I Think That's A False Dichotomy But You Already Know That

.

[beam me up scottie]

29. Right, 'cuz we're all illiberals here.

Liberals are the ones that want to throw kids in the cells with them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I Think That's A Non Sequitur But You Already Know That

Quit while you're behind. I'm sure you're used to it...

[beam me up scottie]

31. Call me illiberal but

I think every vote should be counted.


And your point was what?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. I Think That's Another Non Sequitur But You Already Know That

You must be going for some kind of record.

[beam me up scottie]

35. So you're for the round up?

Because of how "sick" these people are?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. No.. The Roundup Is Clearly Unconstitutional And Dumb.

But I don't have a problem with Megan's Law....

[beam me up scottie]

40. Okay.

Megan's law has been abused by vigilantes and doesn't address the fact that most molesters are close to the child - a family member or friend.

It lulls parents into a false sense of security.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. Funny The Case That Inspired Megan's Law Didn't Involve A Family Member

But a family friend makes sense... I suspect a lot of peds ingratiate themselves with the family to gain access to the kids...

[beam me up scottie]

44. That's exactly it.

Most kids are brought up to fear strangers, but sweet old Uncle Eddie just loves kids and is always willing to babysit.

And think about it, a kid will almost always tell on the stranger but good old Uncle Eddie knows how to use secrecy and guilt to keep them quiet.

[mongo]

28. Yes - And?

What does this have to do with this story?

It's pretty sick to murder another human being, but most murderers do less time than a child molester -- and once a murderer has done their time, they don't have to register for life with the authorities.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Murderers Have The Lowest Recidivism Rates...

Are we going to repeal Megan's Law...It passed by unanimous consent and was signed into law by Bill Clinton...


http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?vote_id=943&can_id=CNIP8121




If there's a convicted sexual predator in my neighborhood I'd like to know...

[mongo]

39. I'd like to know if there's a petty thief

or drug offender in my neighborhood -- since that's much more likely.

Should we just post everyone's rap sheet to the internet?

Megan's Law was meant to deal with pedophiles. The current registries go way beyond that purpose.

In some states public urination is enough to get you on the list.

In most states soliciting (either as a prostitute or a john) is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. I'd Restrict It To Pedophiles...

I live in FL... I don't think you can get on the list for being a john or a prostitute...

If you want I'll find the statute...

"I'd like to know if there's a petty thief... in my neighborhood"


I don't think petty larceny rises to the level of fucking little kids...

[beam me up scottie]

43. Guess what?

You probably know at least one un-convicted predator and that is the one most likely to molest your child.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. It's A Dilemma.

Yes, they have paid their debt to society but they have committed the one crime that no punishment is satisfactory to society...

I just can't muster a lot of sympathy for them ...

[beam me up scottie]

48. I have no sympathy for them at all.

But education is the key to stopping the abuse, not fear tactics and draconian laws.

The same is true with serial killers, they are goldmines for researchers but we prefer to kill them because it makes us feel better to get revenge.




oh crap, I realize you are polite and civil and I'm sorry I jumped on your post but I'm putting on my cast iron undies because SOMEONE is guaranteed to come along and accuse me of supporting pedophilia.

And it won't be the first time... sigh

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. I Don't Think They Can Be Cured...

The research suggests I'm right...


As far as murderers as long as they are off the streets and society protected killing them is not a priority to me...

[beam me up scottie]

51. I'm not just talking about cures.

Something is different about these people, what causes them to be attracted to children?

I don't believe in "evil" and even though you haven't used that word, many people do and they can't get past their hatred.

And I was referring to more education for children and parents too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. That's A Philosophical Question

But certainly one can not deny the existence of evil acts...

On sexual offenders lists... I wouldn't put prostitutes or johns on it.. Those are largely victimless crimes.. Nor would I put people who get caught urinating in the woods but I don't have a problem with putting pedophiles on it. It is a particularly hideous acts and those who commit it are likely to repeat.

[beam me up scottie]

53. And how "likely" are they to repeat their offenses?

That's what I mean by scare tactics.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. More Likely Than Not...

A number of proposed treatment techniques for pedophilia have been developed. Many regard pedophilia as highly resistant to psychological interference and have dismissed as ineffective most "reparative strategies."<36> Others, such as Dr. Fred Berlin, believe pedophilia can "indeed be successfully treated," if only the medical community would give it more attention.<21> The reported success rate of modern "reparative" treatment on pedophiles is very low.<36>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile

And anecdotally:

John Couey, David Westerfield, and Alejandro Avila- all convicted child murderer/rapists and all had a history of child molestation...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. I'd Rather Worry About Some Kid Doing Hard Time For Marijuana Possession

which still happens then rights for some peds...

I do have sympathy for them but their acts have put them beyond the compassion of most ordinary folks...

They just aren't high up on my list...

[beam me up scottie]

59. I worry about the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Especially under this administration.

By perpetuating lies and scaring the sheeple they've convinced half the country that they are the only ones who can keep us safe.

[beam me up scottie]

57. Wrong. Those are reparative treatment stats, not recidivism rates.

* Victimization of juveniles usually takes place within
families (34%) and among friends (59%). Juveniles
are rarely victimized by strangers (7%).

* Victimization of adults generally occurs among
acquaintances (61%) and family members (12%).
Victimization by strangers is far less common
(27%).

* Nearly half (44%) of men imprisoned for a sex
crime victimized their own child, stepchild or
other family member. Rarely (7%) was the
victim a stranger.

* The vast majority (84%) of sexual assaults on
children below age 12 occur in a residence.

-2-
There is a widespread misperception that people who commit
sexual crimes do it again and again. The research, however,
directly contradicts this. Recidivism rates for sex offenses are
relatively low, typically running in the 3-13% range, and among
the lowest of all types of crimes.

The largest, most sophisticated analysis was performed by Karl
Hanson, Solicitor General of Canada. His 2004 quantitative metaanalysis
examined research evidence and recidivism risk factors in
a total of 95 studies involving 31,000 sexual offenders with an average
follow-up time of 5 years. Hanson’s findings include:

Overall recidivism rate for new sex crimes: 13.7%6

Recidivism rate for child molestation: 12.7%7

Recidivism rate for child molestation within families: 8.4%8

Recidivism rate for rape: 18.9%9

A less nuanced study of former prisoners performed by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS)
reached similar conclusions, and found that people convicted of sex crimes had much lower reoffense
rates than people convicted of other crimes. The BJS study followed 9,700 people incarcerated
for sex crimes for three years after release. The findings include:

5.3% of people imprisoned for sex crimes were rearrested for another sex crime.10

3.3% of people imprisoned for child molestation were rearrested for another sex
crime against a child.11

In contrast, the general rearrest rate for people released from prison was 68%. The highest rates
were stealing motor vehicles (79%) and possessing or selling stolen property (77%).12
The myth of high reoffense rates for sexual offenders is supported by some facts that are easily
misinterpreted or misunderstood:

http://66.165.94.98/stories/SexOffendersReport.pdf

Oh, and anecdotally, the Uncle Eddie I referred to above actually exists. He molested his niece, a friend of mine, from the time she was five years old until she left home at 16. Her parents can't believe Eddie would actually do something like that. Her older sister and brother back her story.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. Unlike Uncle Eddie They Killed...

"Oh, and anecdotally, the Uncle Eddie I referred to above actually exists. He molested his niece, a friend of mine, from the time she was five years old until she left home at 16. Her parents can't believe Eddie would actually do something like that. Her older sister and brother back her story."


John Couey, David Westerfield, and Alejandro Avila all killed and raped their young female victims... I don't think one reached the age of six, and they were all virtual strangers....

[Ayesha]

27. A better idea

Make them all dress in Mark Foley costumes so the kids know to stay faaaar away.

But seriously, this is silly, and I'm about as anti sex offender as you can get. It makes much more sense to require them to turn off their outdoor lights and not answer the door. Then the cops who are patrolling neighborhoods can carry a list and check their houses as they drive by to ensure they're complying. Easy, and minimal extra cost.

[Vidar]

38. Sieg Heil!

[porphyrian]

46. The Constitution is meaningless if we allow our president to disregard it.

Why should the police behave any differently?

[REP]

47. Lock Up Grandpa, Daddy, Uncle...

Children are more likely to be sexually abused by a family member than a stranger.

If sexual abused of children is a crime, treat it like one and sentence appropriately. This ex post facto harassment does no one any good.