The Chilling Effect of the NSA Spying (a personal story)

[maxrandb]

When you get right down to the “nitty-gritty” of this NSA Spying on Americans scandal, you realize how chilling the entire fiasco is. We’ve concentrated on how this spying program shredded the 4TH Amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure, and how Americans used to be able to feel secure in their own homes, but it stands to be even more damaging to our 1st Amendment rights. You need look no further than me to see an example of how this chills free speech. The chilling may be subtle..., but it is chilling none the less.

Because of this program, I find myself reluctant to post on DU. Now, most of you may know that I’m an active duty Naval Officer. I suppose if they came after me because of my “political leanings”, (and believe me, being a bleeding heart liberal Naval Officer, is like being the fat kid in dodge-ball) I could claim “selective” prosecution. I suppose if they were to come after me, they would have to go after all the Freaker Repuke-lick posters as well. They would also have to go after the Army soldiers in Iraq that sent pictures to the Rush Limp-balls site of them in their “Club Gitmo” t-shirts…, but that is not the point.

The point is that I don’t feel safe anymore to freely speak my mind. There is no reason that I should feel this way, other than the facts that a) I am a liberal Democrat, b) I oppose this administration’s policies, and c) at any given moment, the NSA might be listening.

In a free society, in a society without government eavesdropping, in an America I used to know…this would not be an issue. Yet, I find myself, even now, hitting the back-space button, and thinking twice about what I’m posting. Knowing that at any given moment, the NSA might be “checking me out”, I find myself holding back, or tempering my disdain for this administration. I choose my words, written and spoken, more carefully these days. If that is not a “chilling” effect on free speech…I don’t know what is.

The other day talking on my cell-phone to my bride, we began to talk about the latest outrage from the criminals in the White House, and I found myself feeling the need to “watch what I said.” Granted, it was just a little subtle feeling in the back of my head...but why should I even have that feeling?

Perhaps this is nothing new. Perhaps the NSA has long had the ability to monitor every e-mail I send and every phone-call I make. Perhaps I’m just being paranoid, but then again, I've heard that a paranoic is someone that has a pretty good idea what is really going on.

The lack of judicial oversight is so critical to this issue. I know I would sure feel a heck of a lot safer, and would be a heck of a lot "free-er", if I knew that the NSA had to convince a judge that I was somehow a threat to National Security, before, or after they spy on me. I would feel safer, because I know that any judge in their right mind would laugh them out of court if they tried to say I was a threat. I would feel safer, because even if a Repuke rubber-stamp judge ruled in their favor, I would still have an opportunity to refute their evidence, and make a case for myself, or at least know that I was being targeted. Without judicial oversight, I don’t feel so safe.

That’s the problem with this whole “spying on Americans” crap. They may tell us that it’s not designed to encroach upon, or limit our rights to free speech…but it already has.

Am I allowed to say that?

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. You aren't the only one censoring his or her posts. I have been doing it

too. Don't want some false charge brought against me so that they will come and take my kids away or something.

[ixion]

3. yep, me too.

and I'm sure there are millions of others.

[AuntiBush]

48. No one in their Half-Right-Mind

would want anyone ease-dropping on them. It defies human nature.

[GHOSTDANCER]

49. What about searching for information on the web?

Are you limiting your searches as well? I mean especially now, with Yahoo providing all the information they want, Google, MSN and other search engines in China are now limiting search information. I mean come-on, these are American companies. Of all things to be concerned about in creating a so-called free world!!! A world abundant with FREEDOM!!!! Freedom of information should be at the fuqing top. All the while the Bush gang is spreading it's version of democracy around the world like a fucking religion.

[ixion]

56. searches now pass before my 'censor' for sure now

unfortunaately.

Fascism sucks. :grr:

[EC]

63. Yep, I search words for my cross-word puzzles

some of them are chemicals or places. So now I don't do it anymore for certain words...The
CROSS-WORD PUZZLE may be a security risk....:sarcasm:

[sarcasmo]

21. Censor this, BUSHCOCKSUCKERGANNON, see you on the train

to the concentration camps.

[GHOSTDANCER]

53. Do you look at porn online?

With the excuses the Bush gang used for obtaining the search queries from search engine companies recently. Excuses like protection for our children!!! Were only looking for child porn!!! Ya right!!! You know how much information you can obtain from search information? It's a fuqing goldmine! It's what Karl Rove jacks off to at night, a pile of search queries to classify everyone and everything.

I mean they get all they want right from your operating system anyways. Running code like The SVC Host and others which has to be engaged in order to get online? When asked recently if Microsoft gave information to the Bush gang they couldn't confirm or deny. Thats sounds a little guilty if you ask me. It's not as if Microsoft didn't get it's initial investments from the US government or IBM(those nazi loving fuqs)to first start up or anything! Or somehow came up with a stripped down version of Unix (a program created or obtained to link military machines together) to create DOS or anything. Or the Internet infrastructure itself, It was created and designed for the US military. I mean for fuq sakes they probably get everything they want anyways!!

Sorry back to the porn thing;
The whole child porn is a fuzzy line to me? Don't get me wrong. I don't look at child porn!! At least I don't think I do? I occasionally look at porn online... How in the hell am I to know if the girls in these pictures are underage or not? I'm talking about girls that may be 17? 16? 15? girls that look a little older? Girls that may have had a rough childhood that made them look a little older. I mean by visiting a porn website, and I happen to click on one of these links and a underage girl is in one of these photos that pop up, a girl that may have lied about her age to get on the website, to make ahhh well money? Cause money doesn't make you do crazy things like lie or anything!! Is this considered child porn? If this photo is in my cache hiding on my computer somewhere, Will they do me in like Pete Townsend? This has got to happen all the time I would think. How regulated is the industry of porn? I'm guessing not very much. With woman obsessed with looking younger and younger and younger these days, how in the hell are you suppose to be able to tell? Should I frequent the granny on granny section just to be safe? maybe so should you. That is if you look at porn online?

[thinkingwoman]

2. When you self-censor

they win.

Don't be a good German. Stand up for yourself by refusing to "watch what you say."

Of course, you'll have to be willing to face the consequences, but that's a matter of integrity and bravery.

Nobody can take away anyone's freedom. They can physically restrain you. They can kill you. But you are free unless you give your freedom away by being a good German.

Resist.

[qazplm]

37. Well integrity

would be following the rules you signed on for. I'm a liberal military officer as well, army instead of navy, but we both have to follow the UCMJ particularly Article 88 which puts real restrictions on what kinds of criticisms we can make of the president, vice president, secdef and general/superior officers.

I know I self-censor to direct my criticims towards republicans and conservatives, Congress and the judicial system and away from any of those individual members listed for article 88.

You "give" some of your freedoms away by swearing an oath and signing up for the military, its voluntary, so I dont think it fair to call him a "good German" or stating he doesnt have integrity of bravery merely because he's following through on what he signed on for.

[thinkingwoman]

43. but that has nothing to do with BushCo

That is ALWAYS the case.

That (the oath sworn by military officers to not be openly critical of the prez, et al) has NOTHING to do with NSA spying.

The OP was saying that the NSA spying was having a chilling effect on his free speech.

Two different issues.

I did not call him a good German for following his oath. Quite the contrary. He's confusing the issues. I am not.

He should not post anything on DU that violates his oath, period, not because he might get caught with NSA spying techniques.

As for everyone who is NOT sworn in such a manner, they let Bushco win whenever they self-censor.

[maxrandb]

50. Absolutely correct

but my reference to my military service is not really relevant. I too do my best to stay within the bounds of the UCMJ, and temper my comments to Repukes in general, and the neo-cons in particular.

We all make those choices everyday. We speak differently, or may be more cautious based on our audience. My military service simply means, that yes! I know when to keep my mouth shut.

This is different though. It's different because I don't think I can really be sure who my audience is. It's like working on the computer with someone watching over your shoulder.

[catnhatnh]

4. I don't know if you're allowed to say that....

...but you said it well.My car carries a DU bumper sticker and my family jokes about how that and my posting here insures a large intelligence file somewhere...But after my second contribution to DU got me a second bumper sticker, NO ONE else is willing to put it on their cars and THEY HATE this administration...So do I believe the actions of this administration are having a chilling effect on civil liberties-bet your ass....K&R

[waiting for hope]

6. Thanks! I think I'll contribute

right now....I've been wanting a bumper sticker and now is a good a time as any. I personally don't give a crap about what I say - usually I reserve statements when I talk to my mother (delicate sensibilities) but I have always believed that in this country we have the right to speak our minds, whether the subject be popular or not and I'm going to continue doing so.

[catnhatnh]

Congratulations and thanks....

...and on further study, I believe my car has TWO bumpers...Never give up, Never surrender (Galaxy Quest)...

[faithnotgreed]

33. im with you - i will not censor myself

i dont feel i have the same things to lose as maxrandb or others
but most definitely i will not censor myself or my feelings (except to my mom - ha)

i have the communist manifesto downloaded on my computer
i am in a happy same-sex partnership of 11 years
get your war on is a great "comic strip"
i am a proud member of the religious left and grew up Quaker
i support anyone who tells the whole truth about this administration (guess that doesnt leave many)

lets see...
what else

oh yeah
every month i opt out of paying the federal (war) tax on my verizon phone bill
and i have lots of great anti-bush etc songs & books downloaded on my computer incl "jerry falwell destroyed the earth" + noam chomsky and howard zinn of course

well after all this i may not see or talk to any of you again i guess you know where ive gone~~


peace and love everyone - it always prevails

[ninkasi]

68. I have amused myself lately

with Yahoo's search engine, typing in such things as "Bush impotent drunk coward", "Bush twit twat twang", and any other phrase which happens to spring into mind. If they're going to take me away, I may as well give them something to really search for in the meantime.

[electron_blue]

77. Just curious - how do you "opt out" of the fed tax?

do share

[faithnotgreed]

79. FEDERAL WAR TAX ON YOUR PHONE BILL information

i have thought of starting a separate thread on it for some time so thank you for asking about this

its very simple actually but you should be persistent/kind/patient as with all good things

on everyones phone bill there is a "federal tax" usually in the dollar or two range - which is used as a war tax
we take that exact amount and deduct it from our bill
we include a brief note each and every month with our payment declaring that we do not wish to pay the federal war tax due to our beliefs
of course you write whatever you feel

i would recommend you first try to contact the phone company and determine if there is a separate address you send it to
sometimes people are helpful and sometimes not really and usually they have no idea or interest in your protest
but again be patient & understanding but persistent

we dont have a cell phone so i dont know about that but we do this each month with verizon
there has been an occasional bump in the road but no threat of disconnection
we have done this for several years now and it feels pretty good

please let me know your adventure - i mean experience - with this

peace

[electron_blue]

80. Wow, I never heard of this. My acct is with Verizon

so I think I will check into it.

Was this fed tax imposed just for the wars? when was it imposed? How do I know it's not part of the other federal taxes?

[faithnotgreed]

81. im no expert so its probably best you look online

for something like protesting federal war tax + phone bill
there are a few groups that can provide this kind of support and information
they will likely also outline the history and facts of it much better than i could
what i have laid out is just what i have learned in pieces but online sites can give you a much more solid ground to work from + advice how to best go about it

best wishes electron and please do let me know your experience
we have been doing this for some time and it would be interesting to hear what others find out in doing this
i do have to say that verizon has been pretty good about it and in fact just last year sometime sent us a letter informing us of a different address we should send it to
who knows maybe the govt wants this "evidence" but i really could care less where its going to
this is my belief and i will live it the best ways that i can

take good care and keep in touch

[SupplyConcerns]

11. One loophole: art

As a songwriter and singer, I've noticed one major loophole allowing free speech that is likely to remain for some time: what you say in your art. With my music, I can not only talk about politics but paint a broader picture of my worldview. Then there are groups who do more direct actions like Reverend Billy and the Church of Stop Shopping, whom I assisted on their latest tour. They say all sorts of things about the evils of consumerism and corporatism, but it's clearly "performance art" on one level, so I would hope they'd get a little bit of leeway in the millitary tribunals of the future.

[RebelOne]

16. I have a DU bumper sticker along with another one

that reads "Support Our Troops. Bring Them Home." I also have two ribbons which read "U.S. Out Of Iraq" and "Bring Them Home."

My son said that he is afraid that the cops will pull me over. I live in the red state of Georgia in an almost 100% red county. I remember during the election that I was followed home once by a police car. I don't think he liked my Kerry/Edwards or MoveOn.Org bumper stickers.

[NoAmericanTaliban]

5. This is exactly what they want & is part of Domestic Terrorism..

& is one of * admins biggest strengths by keeping criticism & opponents in check. In terrorism the act is not as important as the effect it will have. I have not been curtailing my post, critical thinking, or what I say on the phone. Maybe that is stupid, but I will not succumb into being terrorized by a bunch of un-American fascists. They are wrong & we know it, so lets shout out so everyone can hear us.

:patriot:

[dusmcj]

7. Fuck that.

Ever since Powell and Cheney each told one of Sen. Kennedy and Sen. Clinton (can't remember who told which one) "you have to watch what you say, there's a war on" in response to criticism of policy, we knew what the score was. Doober just reconfirms every time he threatens to go after midterm candidates who criticize his Romper Room policies for "threatening the nation interest and the safety of our brave men and women in uniform". Wrap yourself in the flag, equate your policies with the national interest, and accuse anyone who criticizes you of treason. SOP for low-rent ignorami who styled themselves as leaders since time immemorial. Sieg Heil.

George W. Bush and his administration are the greatest single threat against both the interests of the American people, and the safety of America's servicemembers, that currently exists.

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Wasn't it WH SpokesLiar Ari who warned Americans

that they should watch what they say, after Septembertheeleventh? And we know that they were spying on us before Septembertheeleventh.

If they're going to get ya, it's probably already too late to self censor yourself. And I agree! Fuck that!

[sinkingfeeling]

8. I refuse to be quiet! When I make a comment on the phone, I say

'did you get that?' 'Want me to repeat it?' I will not be quiet! The extreme right-wing of this country and the GOP are Nazis! It is fascism! And I want my country back from the dictator, Bush!

[SupplyConcerns]

9. I feel the same way

If these people really are to "turn fasist" (just imagine their response to a biological attack in a US city), I think one of the major groups they would target would be lefties. For one thing, we're already vaguely tied to terrorists in the form of ecoterrorism groups like the Animal Liberation Front and Earth Liberation Front, and being tied to "terrorism" is now the kiss of death in America. For another thing, they simply hate us. As Jack Abramoff said, "It is not our job to seek peaceful coexistence with the left. Our job is to remove them from power permanently."

This is one of those things that has pushed me near the edge of just leaving the country in disgust.

[babylonsister]

10. Yours is one great post! K&N! And I have also thought twice

before posting; it does make me wary, and I understand why you are even warier.
Land of the free...what happened to that?
Does this whole fiasco make you rethink your career commitment?

[maxrandb]

29. No

I've served through Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and now Bush II. I swore and Oath to Support and Defend the Constitution of the United States. I never swore an Oath to one political party, or philosophy.

I'm just hoping that the American people will wake-up, do the right thing, and vote this administration's enablers out of power. With the opposition party controlling committees and oversight, we might really see some fireworks.

You have a military that you can be proud of. Most are great kids that are in a position that they have no control over. My hope is that the American people, with their votes, will give us a government our military can be proud of.

[babylonsister]

30. I hope you don't think that was a dig, or feel

you have to defend yourself, maxrandb. My husband is a retired Coastie, as are my brothers, and I have nothing but total respect for the military; it's the admin, as you've pointed out, that are so tragically at fault now. And a resounding yes to the military needing a government they can be proud of. :patriot:

[robinlynne]

12. when the first patriot act passed

a psychologist who I was seeing had me fill out a form about patient privacy. We went through each phrase together so I could understand what I was about to sign. He looked me in the eye and said, but you know that since the patriot act, we are required to furnish the government with your records if and when they ask, and we are legally prohibited from telling you that they have done so. I said "but you would tell me, wouldn't you.' She said if she told me, she would face prison.

[robinlynne]

14. she/he

I just realized I mentioned the psychologist as both he and she. It was me self-censoring, afraid to say too much just proving your point again.

[CountAllVotes]

60. hi!

:hi: and welcome to the DU! :hi:

[justabob]

13. Yes and say it LOUD

Bob Herbert in the NYT brought this point up too in the last few days. It is a very good point. I do not envy your position, but we should ALL take note. ALL our rights are in danger unless we, the People fight for what is ours.

[MadHound]

15. Don't let the bastards get to you friend

I refuse to let the possibility of somebody tapping my lines, or reading my posts to silence my voice. If you do that friend, then the bastards have won already.

[Armstead]

17. That is the real danger

When people become afraid to use certain words or ombibnations of words -- no matter how innocently -- it is a chlling effect.

if you happen to say the words "Osama bin Laden," for example, does that ring a little bell somewhere and put you on a watch list, even if you were saying "I hate Osama bin Laden"?

That is what peope who support this should consider.

[murray hill farm]

18. Thank you for saying that so well...

i immediately remembered how often i "check" my words..in what i say and how i say it..even here at DU...where i feel most free to say what i feel..i am self editing certain words and phrases..because i dont feel safe..to speak freely..and it is subtle..but the result is just as..and maybe more damaging. i hope this will end somehow, before it is just too late to save us as a country.

[mzmolly]

19. I was thinking about this today. Let's break down what this Government

can do according to Bush.

1. They can eavesdrop on an American citizen without a court order
2. Arrest said citizen without cause for simply speaking out
3. Hold said citizen indefinately
4. Send this person to an overseas prison to be tortured and or killed

Someone share with me what country we're living in again? Cause this doesn't feel like America to me.

I don't blame you for being concerned maxrandb. I'd keep things mum if I were you as well.

[sarcasmo]

24. The new Amerika, the old America is dead thank to 43 and the Patriot Act.

[cally]

20. Yep, I am concerned about what I post.

I figure by now I already have a file. If vegans in Atlanta are spied on and a quaker peace group are spied upon, then probably everyone who posts in the liberal blogosphere has a file. Like you, a judge would laugh that I'm a threat but this NSA spying has gone too far. Anyone who disagrees with this maladministration seems to be a target.

[Dunvegan]

22. My ex-husband was career military who testified before Congress...

...regarding the issue of gay Americans serving in the military.

As he was a Chief Petty Officer on a sub he was asked to testify about the viability of gay and straight military sharing the closest of quarters.

His testomony made the front page of the New York Times. He made a strong case for gay rights. He said that the worst strife between men on his submarine was never between gay and straight, but seamen from different religions.

Navy didn't much like it, it seems. They decided to make his life a living hell so as to both make an example of him, and to get him to crack and quit so they wouldn't have to give him full benefits upon retirement.

He only had six months to go before 20-and-out, and although we hadn't been in touch in about 20 years, he contacted me as well as all of his old friends, as he needed all the support he could get to get through those hellish six months.

He did make it through, though.

Now he's a professor at a university.

Hang in there...it's a risk that may be worth taking.

[sabra]

23. wow, very moving post.

reco'd

[Mnemosyne]

25. I admire your courage to speak

even though you are feeling somewhat threatened and silenced due to the criminal activities of the * regime.

I continue to speak out, though I have much less to lose than you, because these two quotes run through my head often. My Mom is always telling me that I should "watch what" I say and I will find myself hesitating, just for a moment, until these quotes fill me once again and I remember I am still an American.

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -Martin Luther King Jr.

"When even one American-who has done nothing wrong-is forced by fear to shut his mind and close his mouth-then all Americans are in peril"- Harry S. Truman

I hope they can help you find even a minute bit of continued strength to keep speaking out in whatever capacity you feel comfortable.

Thank you for this brave and honest post maxrandb. How sad that you should ever have had to write such a thing in this country. :(

In peace,
V

[marions ghost]

26. excellent post

THIS IS how it works. Those who want to silence any opposition promote self-censorship through repetitive threats to an individual's sense of security. And without traditional legal protections this sense of threat rises significantly. Most Americans (including the deluded Sheeple) would be horrified if they REALLY knew how vulnerable they are to government surveillance and control. They would be horrified if they really knew how limited are their individual "rights."

In the face of this situation we must stick together. There are millions of us who object to this. We must fight against the authority that this extremist government has claimed--the right to spy on (or keep tabs on) average law-abiding Americans.

[johnnie]

28. Don't forget

Throughout the history of America millions have given their lives and shed blood for the freedoms that the administration is taking away.

Way to support the troops you dumbfucks.

[bonito]

31. They are a pathetic minority

That thrive on fear for there livelihood, thats all.

[kineneb]

32. ya know, I gave up worrying

I am sure there is a file on me somewhere. Why? Because I had an Iranian passport as a dual citizen under the Shah's regime. Of course, the US government did not recognize the dual citizenship. I am also sure that my entire family will be on the round-up-in-case-of-"national emergency" list.

Yes, there is a lot to loose, but I will not let the bastards get in the way of my life or make me fearful. If I do, then they do win.

If they are reading now: F*** You, you fascist pigs.

[specimenfred1984]

34. That's Why I Loved the Georgetown Law Students

turning their backs on Alito. Gtown costs a fortune, those kids risk losing a lot but they simply can't take it anymore.

[Fox Mulder]

35. It's really sad...

that one has to worry about this sort of thing in a "free" nation. Makes you wonder if we're living in the United States or Germany in 1941. Scary stuff.

As far as worrying is concerned, I've quit caring a long time ago. If they want to get me, they can come get me. I'll be here.

[Sir Craig]

36. I, too, am active duty military, but I refuse to self-censor

I always make it clear that any opinion I express is mine and mine alone, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the military in general (although I am aware that the current administration is suffering from the worst support of its military members since Johnson and Nixon, and it's well-deserved suffering). The only thing the military can attempt to go after you for is sedition or mutiny, and as long as you are not trying to indoctrinate any of your subordinates, they have almost no case.

That being said, I continue to use pseudonyms simply because I don't feel like making the administration's job any easier, plus there is always the off-chance that the military can attempt to come after me simply because of an appearance of being less than loyal to the current regime. I almost welcome the attempt, because then it will truly become a First Amendment issue and I have little doubt that the military would go out of its way to avoid prosecuting a 20-year veteran simply because he says, "BushCo are a bunch of complete twats," either here or over the phone.

Don't let the bastards scare you, and have a great career!

[thinkingwoman]

44. Hear, Hear, Sir! nt

[Jara sang]

38. I'm concerned about visiting my favorite porn sites.

'Big Butt Divas' I hardly knew ye.

[Betsy Ross]

39. Peace. Liberty. Freedom.

If that didn't get me on the watch list: Osama, jihad, capitalist pigs. That should do it.

[MissMillie]

40. But don't you know....

thinking like this means you think like a terrorist! You ARE a threat! :sarcasm:



Thank you for this post.

[savemefromdumbya]

41. Everybody is talking about the clicks on the phone

You can say anything you want because you know you are standing up for America.

Everyone seems to be talking about the clicks on their phones - te loss of computer programs, the keylogging, on the phone people are saying hello NSA, some treat it as a joke and some don't. I would say the majority are uncomfortable about it but many have that image of the bogeyman Osama in their minds!

[mwooldri]

42. Do I need to start doing encrypted posts?

Such as this one?

http://www.painterlakes.net/hidden_in_bush.bmp

A clue: this picture contains a hidden message.

[JuniperLea]

45. Ellery Queen last night... "This is AMERICA!"

We watched an old episode of Ellery Queen last night and it was about international spies. A Russian spy is in the Commissioner's office and he's looking around. He asks the Commissioner if the office is bugged, or is he free to speak. Full of righteous indignation, loudly, firmly and with great pride, the Commissioner replies, "This is America! We don't do those things here."

I sat with my head in my hands for about a full minute after that.

Yes, folks. This is America... not Amerka... it is ours. We have less to fear from terrorists than we do our own president and his cronies. It's ours, dammit! How do we take it back?

[Just Me]

46. This has GOT to be one of the most powerful personal posts,...

,...I've ever had the pleasure of reading here at DU.

:patriot: Thank you SO MUCH, maxrandb!!! :hi:

[emald]

47. sure your allowed to say that

as long as you consider a life in an internment camp a possibility. Crazy how this once mighty FREE nation has become one of whoring sycophants cowering in fear while dropping the constitution that protected them from the real terrorists....the *ush administration. And by terrorists I mean those responsible for killing and torturing in the name of the US. Jesus, what a mess. It has already happened.

[Sejanus]

51. sleeping with the enemy?

I know exactly what you are saying. Until I retired, aafter many brawls, I was an AUSA who had one of his responsibilities GWB's security when he was at Camp Crawford. I learned a lot of things I would have just soon not known. As the Bible warns: I put my trust in education and I found out it was vanity for he who increases his knowledge increases his sorrow; for with wisdom comes great sorrow" (Sorry for butchering the Bible) I have obtained search warrants which still cannot be disclosed because of national security or the methods being utilized. All I can tell the Navy officer is that you must look at yourself in the mirror every morning. If you cannot do that then everything else is worthless. It does take something called courage, when the time came I was actually surprised that I had it. LUV- Sejanus

[maxrandb]

52. Thanks and Welcome to DU

I can proudly look in the mirror everyday, because I still believe in my country, and feel it is worth fighting for. I guess I'm like "Polly Anna". I believe that the American people will eventually do what is right. History shows us that they will.

It may take a while to fix the damage these people have done to our country, but deep inside, I still believe in the American spirit.

It's like we're all a bunch of drunk college students and 9/11 was our "Spring Break". When the fog lifts we're going to be shocked to see what we slept with.

[bonito]

58. You speak the truth

I'd rather go through life awake than asleep.
Though the former is much more uncomfortable, waking up is hard to do, but this question will haunt you.
To be or not to be, that is the question. Live

[mb7588a]

54. Lead the coupe, cap'm!!!

KIDDING. KIDDING. KIDDING.

Dear Agent Mike,
Please don't sack me and our pal max for a silly joke. Satire, not terrorism.
Adieu,
mb

[bonito]

59. Dam, I was going for my pitch fork

:shrug:

[many a good man]

55. Then take this poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=231833&mesg_id=231833

Buck up, officer!

[bonito]

61. Yep, one of the 42

I wont go quietly into the night, A knight doesn't pretend to be asleep when awake, while laying in soiled sheets.

[Deep N RedLand]

57. I worry about certain things.

I don't post that much online to worry about censoring myself there and figure I'm already on a list somewhere just from the anti-Bush & progressive subject books I check out from the library. Although I have a DU sticker on my car, I will admit I've hesitated adding other good stickers I've seen for fear they might be to "provocative" and set some Freeper into road rage.

What I do worry about is the fact I used to forward progressive articles and cartoons to my work address so I could share with a like-minded employee who is not Net-connected. I noticed some of them would not go through and while I'm aware companies have filters to delete emails containing profanity or graphic images, I noticed the only thing the deleted articles had in common was containing words one would find in any mainstream newsprint like "terrorist" or "Bin-Laden" or would be overly critical of Bushco.

I have had to stop sending things and now have to worry that IT will turn these over the Repub and Bush-loving owner and how long it will be before some suited goons will be interviewing my at work for my "subversive" email.

While I may be paranoid, it is especially galling that I should have to worry at all, yet other employees freely seem to receive conservative, pro-Bush and anti-Muslim jokes, etc. that are not deleted and the owner whenever Chimp is on the ropes sends company-wide propaganda critical of anti-war protesters, liberals, Democrats and all the other Wingnut bogeymen and equating Bush-critics as "un american" and myself and anyone else who finds it offensive must keep our mouths shut or fear unemployment.

The freeper talk of "traitors" and "real patriots" is reaching dangerous levels and while I'd like to think the average Joe or Jane Independent or non-voter can see through the rhetoric, all it will take is another attack for the real censoring to begin and how many of those citizens will really speak out rather than go quietly in the night?

[bonito]

62. These are difficult times for all of us

But take time to smell the roses, take some time off from all the horse shit, don't worry it will be there when you get back, most of us are civilians and can speak our minds freely if we don't let fear stop us.
Don't let fear rob you of your God given gift, this awareness we call life, share and enjoy it with those who matter most in your life. peace

[ProudDad]

64. As one who was a subject of Cointelpro

in the "good ole' days" of Nixon, I assume I'm being listened to by the federal gestapo at all times.

And I don't give a shit!

I don't censor myself, I don't have to.

I live on my feet and will not get down on my knees to any of these fucks!

[PinkyisBlue]

65. I agree with you.

More than once, family members have told me to "watch what I say" when I'm out of the house, "you can get in trouble for talking that way". What makes me angry is that when Clinton was in power, every idiot could say anything he/she wanted about him, true or untrue, but now people are afraid to speak out against the real abuses committed by this regime. If I'm ever in a conversation with someone about the current president, we find ourselves whispering about it and looking around to see if anyone is listening.

[leatherfeather]

67. I am pretty new to all this.

Do you, or any of you of course, Think that the NSA is also using NASA for location? I have seen sites where you can look up your address and it will show your house from space.

Are they all connected and using this to spy on us? This makes me feel so queesy and worried.

I have to be off to bed but I just wondered. I hope I am wrong.

Sleep well you all. I doubt I will. Night.

[leftofthedial]

66. you are exactly the reason this is so outrageous

don't expect that promotion

:-(

[FreedomAngel82]

69. Aw I'm so sorry

:hug: None of us should feel like this. Even I'm paranoid. Only thing I have against me is signing petitions and sending Senators Emails including my own who is the senate majority leader and I buy "left" books and the like. I hate this too. :cry:

[Neil Lisst]

70. I hear you! Part of their purpose is to intimidate.

All of my cartoon scripts go by email to Canada, where they are drawn.

Take a look at the text of many of them, and you'll see the kind language that is supposedly red-flagged. It's international contact, so there's another justification to snoop. Then there's the images, the cartoons. You can never be too sure about those, eh?

Monday I ran this cartoon, and got a visit to the site from Ft. Meade. Was it just someone reading the cartoon, or was it from NSA headquarters there? Last week, it was OFFUTT, and both of those came through links here at DU, which means someone from both places was reading threads here. Add the story in this week's Newsweek, and it sure gets curiouser and curiouser.



I'm a vet who had a top secret clearance, too. Ain't that some shit?!

[Trevelyan]

71. Barbara Boxers petition investigating wiretapping - those not in the

miltary and under oath not to criticize the resident, please sigh.


http://ga4.org/campaign/wiretaphearings/d7beuxrz5xm63w?

It's now been 5 days since President Bush admitted to authorizing the National Security Agency to spy on Americans without court order -- a system he reauthorized as many as 3 dozen times since 2001. Yet despite the outcry from millions of Americans -- both Democrats and Republicans alike -- President Bush has stubbornly promised to continue this illegal and unconstitutional activity.

How can the President of the United States -- the highest elected official in our land, a leader who swore an oath to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution" -- so egregiously and repeatedly violate our most basic civil liberties?...:argh:

[Trevelyan]

72. TIA was offshored and privatized in the Bahamas

Your information has already been 'outsourced' to the Bahamas and Total Information Awareness, oops, CAPPS II.

See Total Information Awareness Goes Offshore http://www.zmetro.com/archives/000901.php
and Sourcewatch's http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Ben_H._Bell_ ...
and http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Total_Inform ...

Also, Time Magazine Aug 4, 1997 'Kingdom Come' article by D. Van Biema p. 52 says "the FBI and CIA ...have instituted Mormon recruitment plans", this seems to me to show hiring preferences to conservatives thus stockpiling the ranks with that mindset. The CIA's early leadership was of similar bent, being mainly staunch Catholic Knights of Malta (Wm Donovan, Wm Casey, Wm Colby, James Jesus Angleton, Allen Dulles, Reinhard Gehlen of Op Paperclip, etc. etc.). Nowadays Opus Dei types such as Robert Hanssen are in the bureau.

With surreptitious access to 'secure' databanks, such individuals have power over YOU. And now they've taken it private and offshore. Feel safe ?

=BTW, the offshored bank/med records aren't secure as the Russian mafia already can attest!""...Alan Paller, director of research at the Bethesda, Md.-based SANS Institute, said the California law is probably necessary because of the kinds of crime that are occurring. A group in Russia and Ukraine has been acquiring customer data, extorting money to prevent its release and then selling it anyway. Paller believes some companies are paying off the extortionists in an attempt to contain the damage""

http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/pr...

BTW, SFChronicle's David Lazarus has also written about the insecurity of our medical records (in addition to the sorry state of the financial records) overseas, with an incident involving the University of California and a Pakistani medical transcriber. So, in addition to the insecurity of the data, you also have to look out for the reliability of it in the first place (!) and the political leanings of those insiders in whatever agency doing a snoop.

[Trevelyan]

73. Brian Williams who was so courageous after the Katrina tragedy is now

scared stupid. This was posted on http://www.CrooksAndLiars.com/ about 2 weeks ago:

Brian Williams: NRO-Rent Boy - Brian Williams, the main man for NBC news joined Don Imus this morning and was talking about the Alito nomination when the subject of Joe Biden came up. Brian couldn't pimp the NRO quick enough in his response to Don-and to top it all off he didn't even know WTF he was talking about.

Don looked as surprised as I did with his response-you'll see here. emailer GT: Williams said with these bloggers now you have to be on your toes. Joe Biden made a point about his daughters and ivy league schools and then the National Review...Video-WMP Video-QT (rough transcript)

Imus: Well what was the issue.

Williams: Well, he (Biden) was talking about Ivy league schools at the hearings and the National Review had video refuting what he said with an earlier statement. I mean this Joe Biden thing was just UNBELIEVABLE! (emphasis by Brian Williams).

Imus: Well what did he (Biden) say about Ivy league schools initially?

Williams: Well, um..., I am not sure exactly but whatever point he had the National Review put up an immediate counterpoint.

Imus: Counterpoint to what?

Williams: Well, I am sorry. I don't have that. Maybe you can get your crack staff over there to find it out.

Imus: Well, geez, you have just completely lost... us here this morning.

Yes Brian, you should have taken your own advice and stayed on your toes. Why is Williams quoting the NRO at all? Media Matters has noted his proclivity to shill for the Republican party, I mean who can forget his "ode" to Rush Limbaugh, but this was beyond the pale. So far this week has turned into one big circle jerk of republican talking points for Alito and the fact that Brian Williams brought up the NRO as a resource tool without even knowing the story seals the deal.

[Trevelyan]

74. We need to keep mentioning Tice and Edmunds and try to protect our Whistle

Whistleblowers for public safety who risk everything to do what is right.

http://www.bradblog.com/
:yourock:

VIDEO: Russel Tice Admits to Being One of the Sources Who Revealed Illegal NSA Wiretaps on U.S. Citizens

DoJ Attempts to 'Gag Order' Him as They Have Sibel Edmonds

As you may know by now, on last night's Nightline, whistleblower Russel Tice admitted to being one of the sources for the New York Times story on the NSA's warrantless wire-tapping of U.S. citizens, as admittedly approved time and again by George W. Bush. He was one of a dozen, apparently. (:wow: that is 12 PATRIOTS in NSA :patriot:)

Tice clarified that the program in question was not simply one of the government "listening in on a few calls made to al-Qaeda," as many have tried to minimize it, but an enormous effort that resulted in "millions" of Americans having their conversations listened to in violation of the law and the Constitution. At least in Tice's opinion.
He added that "millions" of Americans have most likely been spied upon, as anyone that placed a call from the U.S. to another country has a good chance of having had the call monitored. This is not a "limited" program as Bush has been attempting to color it....

[sonias]

75. Well said maxrandb

We've all got that feeling in the back of our minds right now. More than ever we're all reevaluating what we say, write or speak over the phone because we do know that big brother is watching and listening. It's not paranoia, it's fact - we know it. The only thing we're not sure of, is who is at the top of their enemies list and who they want to make examples of.

That was the crucial argument many of us tried to make in 2000 election. The importance of the Supreme Court. bu$h could hurt us for more than 4 years if he got elected. It wasn't just his legislative agenda, but his appointments to the SCOTUS because they were for life. And here we are, exactly where we were so scared we would be. He's destroying this country, and packing the court with right wing ideologues who are going to pave his way to take it even further down.

Sonia

[mcscajun]

76. K&R

:kick:

[Patiod]

78. One good thing - it's becoming something of a meme

The host on "Dancing with the Stars" made some comment about "go ahead and call in your votes, but remember, The White House might be listening!"

Have heard a lot of other jokes, emails, etc, that indicate that people think Bush is "spying on Americans". So much of what we talk about here on DU is just "in-stuff" that the average American isn't even aware or, or doesn't care about.

At least this story is getting out.