Giving Gens X and Y a Bad Name: Or, Waiting for the World to Change

[CorpGovActivist]

Earlier today, I was driving from one meeting to another, when John Mayer's latest hit, "Waiting for the World to Change," came on the radio.

I confess, I'm a fan of most of his stuff; but this song alone will have me skipping his current album.

Why?

After carefully listening to the lyrics for the first time, I find that they remind me of some of the same whiny, defeatist, passive, victimhooded memes I so often read these days.

"me and all my friends
we're all misunderstood"

Oh, cry me a river.

"they say we stand for nothing and
there's no way we ever could"

We've been unfairly labeled, so we're going to sit here and pout about it. (P.S. We're not cut and runners.)

"now we see everything that's going wrong
with the world and those who lead"

Nothing wrong with their powers of observation and deduction, however...

"we just feel like we don't have the means
to rise above and beat it"

Quick, somebody, give them a hug.

"so we keep waiting
waiting on the world to change
we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change"

THAT'S their solution?!? Inertia?!? Passivity?!? Victimhood?!?

"it's hard to beat the system
when we're standing at a distance"

Oh, someone pass me the barf bag. Get involved, and work within the system to change it!

"so we keep waiting
waiting on the world to change"

Again, that apologist non sequitur.

"now if we had the power
to bring our neighbors home from war
they would have never missed a Christmas
no more ribbons on their door"

That's a sentiment soaked in the sort of noblesse oblige so often found among Boston Brahmin trust fund babies. At the age of 18, every single one of Mr. Mayer and "all" his friends (see first stanza) had the franchise - and each can use his/her unique talents to contribute to worthy candidates who *can* wield that sort of power. If they really shake off their case of the lazies, they can even run for office themselves!

"and when you trust your television
what you get is what you got
cause when they own the information, oh
they can bend it all they want"

Which ignores, of course, the simple fact that such post-Watergate laws as FOIA and open meetings laws permit Mr. Mayer and "all" his friends to circumvent the corporate media outlets. It also ignores, of course, the amazing potential (and actual proven power) of old-fashioned grass roots organizing, coupled with modern Internet capabilities. Mr. Mayer, meet blog and scanner. Blog and scanner, meet Mr. Mayer.

"that's why we're waiting
waiting on the world to change
we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change"

When did he pen this generational absolution? After his parents nagged him to quit whining, and do something? Is this his response, foisted onto the airwaves?

"it's not that we don't care,
we just know that the fight ain't fair"

Oh, yeah. I'm gonna need a second one of those barf bags, please. From the word "go" in our Republic, "the fight" (a.k.a. "politics") "ain't" been "fair," Mr. Mayer. Pick up an American History book. As early as Washington's Administration, the partisan infighting and bickering began.

"so we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change"

Excuses, excuses.

"and we're still waiting
waiting on the world to change
we keep on waiting waiting on the world to change"

It's a weak argument to begin with. I wouldn't have used it as the song's bridge.

"one day our generation
is gonna rule the population"

No thanks. This nation was founded, maintained, and grown by doers, not whiny waiters.

"so we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change

we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change"

So, that's why I won't be buying Mr. Mayer's newest album. All of my friends - Gen Xers and Yers, for the most part - are not sitting around "waiting" for anything to change; no, Mr. Mayer, they're making those changes happen, and have been for a very long time.

As if this weren't bad enough, I got home to find that one of the more popular threads on here today has a variation on the "waiting on the world to change" theme - authored by another Gen X/Y borderliner. I read and re-read it three times. It tries to echo a Kennedyesque theme, but at its core is the unmistakable scent of fear and anxiety (decidedly un-Kennedyesque, if you ask me). The gnawing uncertainty that pervades the message is the other side of the BushCo. fear coin, rather than a newly-minted coin of confidence (the coin of the realm, once, in America).

These next 13 days will pale in comparison to the Thirteen Days of which Bobby Kennedy wrote. Are the stakes high today? Yes, absolutely! Is KKKarl the only one with a black top hat full of rabbits, and a magic wand? HELL NO!

All hyperbole aside, America has - yes, has - faced more dire crises in its history (including those much more fateful Thirteen Days of which Bobby Kennedy wrote). My personal preference, stated clearly, is for the Democrats to regain one if not both chambers of Congress in November - the sooner to set things right again.

But let's not let it be said that "the history of this generation" was written by "whiny waiters, waiting for the world to change," or by those who put a little rousing rhetoric for bunting on a dais constructed of the timbers of fear handed to us by BushCo.

- Dave

[knitter4democracy]

1. I feel the same way about some of the Gen Y artists.

They're so whiny. Why not be the change you want to see in the world?

[CorpGovActivist]

2. Amen!

We are a nation founded upon - and grown each generation by - perseverance, self-reliance, tenacity, and action.

Waiting wouldn't have led to that shipboard of tea being tossed into Boston Harbor.

- Dave

[Jed Dilligan]

3. I don't know this artist

but it seems like maybe the lyrics are tongue-in-cheek? Like he is making the same point you are, only with a little

:sarcasm:

I might be wrong, but the song sounds too pathetic to be serious.

[CorpGovActivist]

4. Maybe so ...

... but there sure isn't a single device - lyrical, inflective, or otherwise - that suggests to my ear that he is being anything but serious.

- Dave

[Jed Dilligan]

5. Hey

my star just disappeared.

Off topic, but any idea how that happened?

[Chulanowa]

6. I can't stand John Mayer...

And for the same reason I can't stand Creed, or Matchbox 20. Everything they put out sounds like watered-down rich-boy simpering and moaning and blah blah blah.

Conclusion, men with testicles should stop pretending to be castratti.

[CorpGovActivist]

8. Your Avatar...

... is a picture of a man who - even as a young man - did not wait around for the world to change.

: )

- Dave

[mvd]

36. I agree with the OP about John

He's pretty good when he's doing breezy pop. But don't do weighty messages in this manner.

Matchbox Twenty's Yourself or Someone Like You was decent.

[CorpGovActivist]

38. There Are Days When ONLY Green Day's American Idiot...

... will do!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=maybe+i%27m+the+faggot+america+green+day

: )

- Dave

P.S. I forgive their misunderstanding of the term "red neck".

[CorpGovActivist]

50. One of My Favorite "Empowered Youth" Lyrics These Days...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natasha_Bedingfield

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=lyrics+unwritten+natasha+bedingfield

Plus, the writing metaphors resonate for me.

: )

- Dave

[mvd]

59. Thanks - that's a good song

The whole CD is also pretty good. When it comes to politics, I like strong lyrics like the ones from Steve Earle, Neil Young, Pearl Jam, The Indigo Girls, etc. That's not to say there can't be lightheartedness and comic relief, but John Mayer's song isn't supposed to be like that.

[CorpGovActivist]

61. I Agree...

... if the lyrics and the beat aren't strident and strong, they should at least be thought-provoking.

With Jon Mayer's latest "hit," I just hear defeatism.

- Dave

[mvd]

65. Yep, when I think of wanting the world to change..

I feel angry and hopeful at the same time. Neither emotion is present on John's song. You mentioned Green Day below, and they are another good example of having good political lyrics.

[CorpGovActivist]

85. Good Psych-up Music, Eh?

I always find it interesting to find out what the Olympic athletes are listening to on their iPods, right before they "go on" for their event.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Phelps

- Dave

[mvd]

94. Yeah, it is

What are some of the things you've found they listen to? That also interests me.

[CorpGovActivist]

111. Oh, I Gotta Find That Article...

... there was a good one on that subject during the last Summer Games. If you shoot me a PM on here, that will ensure I don't forget.

- Dave

[IdesOfOctober]

168. Here're some...

... stories about that.

I thought of this this morning when I flipped the calendar - we need music to win the Election by!

; )

Ides

[kerry-is-my-prez]

103. Heard he dated Jessica Simpson - that tells you what you need to know...

n/t

[CorpGovActivist]

118. Biting My Tongue Til It Bleeds...

... LOL.

I had about 10 directions I could have taken that.

: )

- Dave

[Scout]

170. I can't stand the "girls become lovers" song he does....

don't know any of his other music, but that one just drives me nuts. yeah, that's what always/only happens to girls ... they "become lovers who turn into mothers"

what is the point of this stupid song???

[Flabbergasted]

7. Thanks; my feelings as well. Take the crap off the radio!

[CorpGovActivist]

9. And Your...

... avatar said it best, perhaps: "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'."

; )

Most Gen Xers and Yers I know took that to heart.

- Dave

P.S. When will Evil Empires learn to cover those pesky thermal exhaust ports? It's always the littlest things that trip them up, like mis-directed e-mails.

[IdesOfOctober]

10. LOL...Boston Brahmin trust fund babies...

"That's a sentiment soaked in the sort of noblesse oblige so often found among Boston Brahmin trust fund babies."

Met a few of these while in school. You'd think they're all the long, lost heirs of JFK himself - and they have never done an honest day's work in their lives. At least with the "real" Kennedys, there was a very real impulse to serve, to lift all Americans, and to pay down that bootleggin' debt!

; )

Ides

[CorpGovActivist]

31. The Hyannis...

... hypocrites and hangers-on? LOL. I remember them well.

"Mah grand-daddy was the undersecretary of undersecretaries during Cahmahlot. Who was your grand-daddy?"

; )

If I never do another one of those pretentious clambakes again in my life, it will be too soon.

LOL.

- Dave

P.S. "Mah grand-daddy - on both sides - actually worked for a living, but found time to campaign for JFK anyway," was my standard response.

[IdesOfOctober]

32. They were truly ...

... caricatures of themselves, for sure!

; )

Ides

[Hissyspit]

11. I've been bitching about the song for several days since I first heard, BUT

I would like to make the point that Mayer, while offering up a shitty defense for apathy, is at least calling attention to it. Many of his generation have over the past five years refused to even acknowlege that the world needs to change, or that they are apathetic and complacent and thus complicit. In that sense, the song can be seen as a condemnation. I don't know if that his intent; I doubt it, but he did write about it and make it the first song on his album. He has made concrete for all time in art this attitude and it will sit alongside the music of the 1960s when a generation found itself in a similar situation.

[CorpGovActivist]

12. Let the Record Reflect...

... that Mr. Mayer and "all" his friends were complacent, complicit, and apathetic.

But don't let the record reflect that Mr. Mayer and "all" his friends represent the best - or even the majority - of Gens X and Y.

Good point, though, that he's created a record in a pretty durable art form.

- Dave

[Sir Jeffrey]

15. I'm 28...

and I'd like to point out that my age group (18-29) was the only age group to vote for Kerry over Bush in 2004, and it was a blowout (54-45).

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

The 30-44 group (older gen X-ers and younger boomers) went 53-46 Bush, the 45-59 group (those world-changing baby boomers) went 51-48 Bush and the "greatest generation" went 54-46 Bush.

And of course you have heard about the trouble the military is having recruiting young people to fight Bush's wars. We're deciding instead to live in poverty, indebted to Sallie Mae for the next 30 years with no health insurance.

My point: not picking on you specifically, but the statement that there are a lot of apathetic types in the younger generations is pointless. There are plenty of assholes, apathetic types, bigots and greedy jerks in every generation.

Quite frankly, the people my age grew up with Clinton in office. Eight years of peace, prosperity, and hope. We never really experienced Reaganomics or true conservatism like this. We never really understood what Vietnam meant aside from some abstract (and very boring) reading we had in history class. Now we have lived it, and if you think the 2004 numbers were good, wait until 2008.

[CorpGovActivist]

16. My Brother Just Turned 29...

... and we joke back and forth about where he belongs (last class of Gen X, or first class of Gen Y). For the purposes of irking my brother, I maintain that one must have been born when Star Wars came out to belong in Gen X. He reminds me that he was on the way, so we argue the technicality.

; )

My first journal entry, at 9, was Reagan's inaugural and the release of the hostages in Iran. I had a TIME and Newsweek subscription from the time I was 7 or 8. The prospect of thermonuclear war seemed real, the fall of the Wall seemed surreal, and the peace dividend seemed like a sure thing.

My brother was born within one week of John Mayer. My brother and "all" his friends don't resemble the apathy, passivity, or victimhood I hear in Mayer's generational whine.

Quite the contrary - they're mobilized, they're active, they're engaged, they're aware, they're well-informed, and they're doing plenty to change the world. If Mr. Mayer and "all" his friends are sitting around waiting for the day when they're gonna run the world, they're going to find that people like my younger brother and "all" his friends are the ones from his generation actually doing it.

"Now we have lived it, and if you think the 2004 numbers were good, wait until 2008."

Just don't skip 2006!

; )

- Dave

[Sir Jeffrey]

17. Funny...

I thought I was the only one who argued the "Star Wars" standard for demarcating the line between X and Y. All my friends on the cusp used to determine membership in GenX as whether your first movie was Star Wars or Grease. If your parents dragged you to see Star Wars when you were a month old, you're an X. If your parents dragged you to see Grease when you were a month old, you're a Y.

All the party hacks and activists are going to vote in 2006 (including my wife and I), so the numbers will probably skew a bit... but the big number to watch will be in 2008 because that will be the sense of the current batch of high schoolers and junior high kids. I'm betting you'll see around 58-60 percent support for the Dem regardless of who it is...unless we nominate a war-monger or a paedophile.

[CorpGovActivist]

18. Hardcore Line of Demarcation

"I thought I was the only one who argued the "Star Wars" standard for demarcating the line between X and Y."

Hell no! Not only was Star Wars the first movie I saw on the big screen, my best friend and I had to plead, wheedle, and beg for a week solid. I was 5 years old, and Pentecostals aren't supposed to go see movies. Having lunch with George Lucas my senior year of high school remains a highlight.

My brother was duly indoctrinated into Star Wars when he came along. I owed him at least that much!

; )

"All the party hacks and activists are going to vote in 2006 (including my wife and I), so the numbers will probably skew a bit..."

I think that Congress should pass a new Federal holiday. The Monday and the Tuesday of an election year should be a holiday, period. That would help counteract the mid-term dips, I think. Hell, if nothing else, more people would vote absentee ballots (paper trail) and take off for a four-day weekend.

"but the big number to watch will be in 2008 because that will be the sense of the current batch of high schoolers and junior high kids."

Ever see that yearly list of the "cultural reference points" of incoming college frosh? If you ever want to feel ancient...

: )

"I'm betting you'll see around 58-60 percent support for the Dem regardless of who it is...unless we nominate a war-monger or a paedophile."

That very much depends on the long-term effects of No Child Left Uneducated on that group.

- Dave

[Alcibiades]

43. Culture is one way of drawing the line

I think the way to go is to proceed from the Baby Boom generation, since that generation has defined so much that came after. The dates I usually see for the boomers are birth years from 1946 (the end of WWII, and the beginning of the burst of babies that spewed forth from our grandmothers' loins at that time) through 1964 (which was roughly about the time when women of the "greatest generation) were ending their childbearing years). I think gen x begins where the boomers ended, so gen x should run from 1964 to 1979. 1979 was a milestone year in many ways--the year working class incomes peak and begin their long decline (it was also the year I entered 6th grade and learned to use a slide rule-the year before it was phased out in our school system in favor of the pocket calculator). Gen Y would then run from then up through the mid-nineteen nineties, to include the echo boom years.

I think Mayer is just repeating some of the common perceptions about young people, I'm not sure he's endorsing them. He's a late genxer, after all, writing for a gen Y audience, so he may have some problems really tapping into the spirit of the age. I do think he has it wrong, but there is a sense of truth in the song, if we look at it in the generational terms in which this discussion has been framed. The boomers, the hippie generation, have become the mirror image of their martini swilling Nixonian era parents, alone and afraid in front of the television watching Fox. For many of us Xers, we have had our whole damn culture defined by these people, and we have to wait for them to ride off into the sunset and for a new generation (their children) to age into adulthood before we can really take on our roles as the dominant generation, if ever so briefly.

[CorpGovActivist]

44. Wiki's Generations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_x

Interesting to see where some draw those lines. I still think Star Wars is a good touchstone.

"I think Mayer is just repeating some of the common perceptions about young people, I'm not sure he's endorsing them."

If he was going for subtlety, it worked.

; )

"He's a late genxer, after all, writing for a gen Y audience, so he may have some problems really tapping into the spirit of the age."

Maybe it's endemic to "cusp" babies? I know a few who seem to not quite fit on either side of the divide. Some learn to embrace their ability to straddle; others seem to get hamstrung by the angst.

"I do think he has it wrong, but there is a sense of truth in the song, if we look at it in the generational terms in which this discussion has been framed."

If there is one redeeming quality to the song, for me, it's that it forced me to confront the fact that there really are people who feel this way, despite all the modern conveniences and technology - which they could use to empower themselves and be heard.

"The boomers, the hippie generation, have become the mirror image of their martini swilling Nixonian era parents, alone and afraid in front of the television watching Fox."

Some of them still "wear" like vintage Dems though - and are still actively pursuing progressive causes. Not all of them have surrendered to the ennui.

"For many of us Xers, we have had our whole damn culture defined by these people, and we have to wait for them to ride off into the sunset and for a new generation (their children) to age into adulthood before we can really take on our roles as the dominant generation, if ever so briefly."

That's where I take a slightly divergent view.

I agree that our formative years were largely defined by those generations - e.g., Red Dawn, War Games - but we also came of age during some amazing events: the end of apartheid, the Fall of the Wall, the peaceful transition to democratic governments in Eastern Europe, etc.

So we have within us the twin memories of living in fear of the "ism," and the renewed hope that humankind can lurch forward into promising new times.

I think we'll choose to embrace the hope, by addressing the root causes of the fear.

And I don't think we have to wait - with apologies to Mr. Mayer.

- Dave

[Alcibiades]

106. Maybe I'm a little older

But the formative events I have in mind were in the early 1970's. When I was growing up, I was convinced that there was some cabal of thoughtful hippies, probably in New York City, who were controlling every aspect of our culture. Liberalism was, or seemed, universal. My retired drill Sergeant grandfather had 3-inch sideburns, Nixon established the EPA, and, for my generation, there were TV shows like HR Puffinstuff, Sesame Street, Big Blue Marble, Free to be You and Me, and Mr. Rogers, all of which captured how it was that this generation (or slightly older folks) wanted the children to turn out. From where I was-in the Deep South-liberalism seemed to be an inexorable force that integrated my school only a couple of years before I started attending, and would bring social justice anon. What is learned early is learned best, and my liberalism dates from this time, when I had a feminist mom and Nixon was stepping down in disgrace.

This isn't all I mean when I say we are sandwich people. Ours is a mass culture, a material culture, and, for gen Xers, this has meant, and will mean, being in the shadow of a bigger generation, watching a lot of ads for products for people 20 years our senior. The changing mores of the boomers has meant, for example, that Janet Jackson's nipple is completely beyond the pale in 2004 but songs like "push, push, in the Bush" were OK in 1977. If I had to listen to that crap when I was nine, why the hell shouldn't boomers be forced to see a nipple when they are 59? In the 1970's, even the rednecks were sort of countercultural. Now they are just freaky and reactionary, or on meth. If you read the Joy of sex from the 1970's and it's all like "hey man, do your own thing, whatever feels good" and then you look at the one published 20years later and it's like "latex is fun!" Being a Gen Xer is like arriving a much too late at a killer party after everyone else has gone home and all that's left is trash and vomit.

As for the 1980's, that's when things began to go wrong. The communists didn't particularly scare me at the time, but that's because I knew they couldn't make a decent clock radio. Plus, as it turns out, the bad old days in Eastern Europe weren't all that bad, and the good new days have not been all that great. Meanwhile, in the USA, we had Reagan and Falwell. The clock has been rolled back to a prescientific age. People don't even understand their own narrow self interest, let alone enlightened self interest--people who get checks every month from the government complain that taxes are too high, but never wonder where their own checks come from--that happens by magic.

We have been trained to understand the psychology of the older generation even better, in some ways, than our own. From where I sit--and it's an over generalization--I saw a generation that I looked up to change, grow old, and decline, growing increasingly isolated and frightened. I know some of the old guard are left, and I love those people. I do miss their followers, the masses of young people who made history and who taught me my basic values, who created the culture of a time I still carry in my heart.

[CorpGovActivist]

120. I Would Love to Have This Discussion...

... over as many pints as we can handle.

Nicely conveyed.

Where from?

- Dave

[treestar]

51. IA, Mr. Mayer cannot speak for his entire generation, just for himself

and one generation being better than another is ridiculous - I never buy the "greatest generation" crap either.

Every generation has new stuff to contend with, too. A generation lucky enough to live in good times is not weaker and softer, just luckier. And there are always personal battles in every life.

[CorpGovActivist]

53. Yeah, But the Lyrics Purport...

... to speak for his generation: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=waiting+on+the+world+to+change+generation+mayer

"Every generation has new stuff to contend with, too. A generation lucky enough to live in good times is not weaker and softer, just luckier. And there are always personal battles in every life."

That reminds me of the Chinese proverb, "May you live in interesting times."

Blessing or curse?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=chinese+proverb+%22may+you+live+in+interesting+times%22

- Dave

[treestar]

57. Chances are everyone will at some point, the question is then

how old will you be?

The 60s would have been interesting but in a different way depending how old you were.

Then again maybe all times are interesting. Even the 50s might have been less boring than they seem to be on the surface.

My parents' generation is really lucky - they were children or babies during the depression (so their parents had to worry about it) - during WWII they were children and when Viet Nam started they were over draft age themselves but their children were small and therefore their children were never sent to Viet Nam.

[CorpGovActivist]

58. Then There Are Those...

... who seek to manufacture events, to try to live up to their daddies' legacies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_jong-il

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush

- Dave

[Toots]

13. At least they have a national hit song about the worlds problems

What have you done but whine about those that are at least making a very public comment of their unhappiness about the going ons in the world. Talk about whiny sheesh......Tell me what you think they could or should do different.

[IdesOfOctober]

14. A little reading for you...

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=0001269476&owner=include&count=40

Mr. Smith has taken on Halliburton, at great personal cost. I think he has a right to call Mr. Mayer's song out for its whiny refrain.

Ides

[Radical Activist]

19. This is how current generations are taught to think.

Its part of the educational system and media messages. Baby Boomers and authority figures are supposed to make decisions. Younger people are supposed to "get informed" about issues and vote but not take charge.

[CorpGovActivist]

25. That's Why...

... I love to remind young voters of how old many of the key Founders were when the Revolutionary War broke out.

: )

- Dave

[Radical Activist]

20. This song reminds me for "looking for a leader" on the new Neil Young album

It has the same message of passivity and looking for others to solve problems. I don't like either song for the same reason.

What generation is Neil Young part of again?

[NashVegas]

23. It's the Same Thing Jerry Brown Was Saying in the 1980s

People want someone to come in on a white horse and fix everything. (paraphrasing)

There is an attitude, and it seems like a pretty popular one, to me, that all one has to do is push the right voting lever and presto! Things will get fixed and run well. And when that doesn't work, we bitch about said leaders, and let someone else deal with the task of cleaning up the neighborhood.

[CorpGovActivist]

29. Or, As Bobby Kennedy Used to Paraphrase

"There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?"

DUers are, by dint of the name, "doers," though, right?

; )

- Dave

[treestar]

52. The same mentality the neocons tap into when they say they need the

"tools" to "protect" us - we apparently just sit back and let them take care of us.

[CorpGovActivist]

54. Those Who Would Sacrifice Essential Liberties...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22those+who+would+sacrifice+essential+liberties%22

Benjamin Franklin - still as hip and relevant today as he ever was!

; )

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

26. I Think There Is a Strain...

... of self-indulgent 60s parenting that helps explain this rogue strain of passivity in a minority of Gens X and Y.

- Dave

[NashVegas]

21. Some People Sing About Serial Killers - Doesn't Make Them A Murderer

Did it occur to you that Mayer's song might be more of a commentary on something he saw around him, rather than his own philosophy? He says it is, in interviews.

[CorpGovActivist]

27. Hey, I'll Give Mayer This Much Credit...

... his songs have a knack for understated irony in some instances.

I don't think this is one of them.

- Dave

[kiahzero]

22. It reads to me to be the opposite of what you're saying

Then again, I haven't actually heard the song, which makes a difference. However, the way I would generally read those lyrics is less an endorsement of the mindset and more of an attack of it - "We could be fixing these problems, but instead we're just waiting for the world to change" type of thing.

:shrug: Mayer is a bit too soft for my tastes either way.

[CorpGovActivist]

28. Funny Thing Is...

... I heard it, recognized it as one of his, but didn't get around to homing in on the lyrics until I was stuck in my car yesterday. I kept waiting for the "irony" lyric - the hint, the clue, the nod, the wink - that would signal he wasn't "singing it straight".

- Dave

[porphyrian]

24. There is no Generation X prototype.

No GenXer speaks for all, or even most, of the others. That's what people can't seem to understand.

[CorpGovActivist]

30. Gen Y Can Have Mayer ...

... as one Gen X voice, I say, we don't want him hawking that apathetic message on our behalf.

- Dave

[mvd]

33. Even if..

he's observing what's going around him, the arrangements turn me off. They have the urgency of a soundtrack to a children's movie.

[CorpGovActivist]

34. I Think He Was Trying to ...

... show his soulful, inner suffering artist.

Poor little misunderstood misanthrope!

- Dave

[mvd]

35. LOL

Whatever it was, didn't work for me. :-)

[CorpGovActivist]

37. He's Taken Some Generational Swipes at His Parents ...

... before.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=john+mayer+tiny+tragedies+while+in+their+memories+all+of+my+parents

This latest whine of his really did it for me. I know my parents and grandparents aren't perfect, but I'm incredibly grateful to them for everything they did to try their best.

- Dave

[mvd]

39. Same here

The song does ignore all the protests that haven't gotten enough coverage, and the work going on on election reform.

Good topic, BTW! :hi:

[CorpGovActivist]

40. Thanks, and My Younger Brother...

... and "all" his friends prove the Jon Mayer and "all" his friends don't typify Gen Y.

My sister and I were near the end of Gen X. My younger brother is on the cusp, but - his protests to the contrary - he's Gen Y (with a healthy influence from his Gen X siblings, and vice versa).

- Dave

[Blue_In_AK]

41. I couldn't agree with you more...

Enough of this WAITING, already. Let's get out there and do something about it.

[CorpGovActivist]

42. Smugmug Rocks! And Thanks...

... it's high time those Kumb-a-ya drums got turned into war drums.

- Dave

P.S. My partner, Patrick, is turning into quite the amateur photographer. He has a bunch of stuff that hasn't made it up to smugmug yet - and Alaska is high on our list of places to go with his new lenses (so are some of the national parks in the Lower 48): http://patrickj.smugmug.com/. If you're ever down our way, let us know.

[Blue_In_AK]

45. Thanks, Dave.

Tell Patrick I checked out some of his photos and will try to get back to look at more when I'm not so busy. I love that one with the guy on the park bench. Yes, please do come to Alaska -- you'll love it here. Did you look at my pictures?

[CorpGovActivist]

46. Yes, and...

... our TiVo is well-trained to grab all Alaska travel programs (Travel Channel, Fine Living, Discovery, National Geographic, etc.)...

... in fact, there is one on there right now.

- Dave

P.S. What's up there now is his early stuff. As he's developed his eye, he's managed to do well with both landscapes and people (a lot gravitate toward one or the other). If you wanna see some really breathtaking stuff: http://www.peterlik.com/. He uses high silver content film, and a very old style camera. We stumbled across his gallery last year while in Vegas.

[CorpGovActivist]

47. I Like Your B&W Stuff...

... I think that B&W has a timeless quality to it.

"When was it taken?"

Depending on the subject, it could have been 1, 100, or 1 million years ago.

: )

- Dave

[Blue_In_AK]

48. I usually do color

but some things just beg for black and white, such as this one...

[CorpGovActivist]

49. Saw that...

... liked this one, too: http://northernvisions.smugmug.com/popular/3/86470319

I thought it was a cave, rotated 90 degrees, at first glance.

- Dave

[Blue_In_AK]

55. Oh, yeah "The Trees Have Ears."

I love that tree.

[CorpGovActivist]

56. Ever Been to the Appalachian Mountains?

They're beautiful - the geology, the climates, the plants, everything.

There's even tundra!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Sods

- Dave

[LeftyMom]

60. There are plenty of young people making informed and activist music

You won't hear much of their work on the radio. That doesn't mean that young people or that young musicians don't care, only that the corporations learned their lesson from (fuck, I hate to give them credit for anything) the damned baby boomers and actively discourage popular music as a form of political activity or shared community in what is in fact a very activist but largely leaderless generation of young people.

[CorpGovActivist]

62. There Are Some Commercial Successes ...

... who put their message out there, the $$$ be damned.

Exhibit A: Dixie Chicks.

; )

- Dave

[omega minimo]

63. That's why they bought up all the media and this result was INTENDED

"only that the corporations learned their lesson from (fuck, I hate to give them credit for anything) the damned baby boomers and actively discourage popular music as a form of political activity or shared community in what is in fact a very activist but largely leaderless generation of young people."

That's also why corporate media product has mainly sucked for the past decades since they bought it all up.

[LeftyMom]

66. Very true

It's interesting to note how emerging genres lost their vitality as they became commercialized. There are individual acts that may be an exception, but it's a pretty reliable rule on the macro scale.

[CorpGovActivist]

67. Better Grass-Roots Outlets for Music Nowadays...

... the Internet sure has touched everything, huh?

- Dave

[LeftyMom]

69. True. I hear of things by word of mouth via internet and get them.

I can't remember the last thing I bought because I heard it on the radio and really liked it.

[CorpGovActivist]

70. I Like Those Listening Kiosks, Too...

... Barnes has them, and I think a few other places.

- Dave

[omega minimo]

71. What emerging genres?

Has there been a new (original) genre since rap? :shrug:

[LeftyMom]

76. That was what stuck out in my mind

Electronica, I suppose, but that's really only political if you can ascribe a political motivation other than the embrace of hedonism to the rave scene.

[omega minimo]

78. well ANY new genre, not necessarily political ..........................

[conscious evolution]

98. Check out the new-grass scene

While bluegrass and Americana are rather old,the new generation of players have been taking the forms in new directions.
After Jerry Garcia died it came out that he was heavily into bluegass and Americana music.Many 'hippies' who were not into Phish or Widespread drifted into this scene.The result is a new twist on an old sound that combines awareness of whats going on with some sweet jams.
Now,when one goes to a bluegrass festival,instead of a bunch of the sterotypical hillbillie/redneck crowd commonly associated with bluegrass,one will find a very progressive group of people.

[CorpGovActivist]

116. Now You're Talkin'!!!

I grew up near the WV/KY/SW VA border: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raleigh_County

Significant family here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_County%2C_Kentucky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_County%2C_West_Virginia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDowell_County%2C_WV

That is some toe-tappin' music, and - infused and updated with some modern lyrics and musical sensibilities (and even some funky new instruments) - it's got a whole new set of feet to tap.

- Dave

[conscious evolution]

123. Toe tapping doesn't

begin to describe newgrass.It makes you want to shake every bone in your body now!


When Dr. Dean said that the Democratic Party should reach out to the guys in pick-ups with gun racks my first thought was that he should show up at a few bluegrass festivals.I think a few photos of him on stage with some pickers would make a lot of people think.

[CorpGovActivist]

126. Dr. Dean Needs a Roadmap...

... for the border/purple states he can't seem to find.

- Dave

[bobbolink]

64. Sometimes I think we just have to lose our country totally,

and let the upcoming generations start from the beginning again.

Maybe then they'd figure out a way to let the next generations know that it's constant WORK to keep a democracy....

:shrug:

p.s. this is one big reason I think my generation made a huge mistake by working to abolish the draft.

No draft has allowed this kind of passivity.

[CorpGovActivist]

68. But Rummy Says an "All-Volunteer" Military Is Good...

... for the Republic - and we all know Rummy wouldn't ever have ulterior motives, right?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=rumsfeld+all+volunteer

- Dave

P.S. Stop-loss orders are a backdoor draft.

[bobbolink]

73. Riiiigggghhhhttt... I *always* believe every word of his...

:eyes:

"P.S. Stop-loss orders are a backdoor draft."

Only for those already in the military, or were...

There's no worry for those never in the service.

Until *EVERYONE* feels the responsibility, there will be the kind of attitude as in the OP.

[omega minimo]

75. education is needed, to help people "feel the responsibility."

"Until *EVERYONE* feels the responsibility, there will be the kind of attitude as in the OP."

[bobbolink]

79. Plenty of people with high education levels feel absolutely NO

responsibility to anyone except themselves.

Knowing that you have to fulfill an obligation to your country, as many other countries do, would change that attitude.

[omega minimo]

82. um that's the sort of education i mean. TEACHING that sense of responsiblity

civic awareness. it's been done before. and you're right. experience helps too.

[CorpGovActivist]

90. Like Other Countries' Required Service?

Civilian or military?

- Dave

[bobbolink]

129. Both

Switzerland, believe it or not, may stay out of the way of all war (at least so far), but military service is required.

It is in many countries.

It certainly makes the citizenry take war more seriously if their family might be involved.

Rather than "rah! rah!"

[CorpGovActivist]

132. The Democratic Disconnect...

... maybe that's what we should call it.

I mean democratic in terms of democracy, not the party.

- Dave

[bobbolink]

137. Good term for it!

The democratic (small "d") Disconnect.

Neither resources nor responsibility equally shared.

I think you got it!

:thumbsup:

[CorpGovActivist]

159. Yup, There's a Better Way...

... the free market doesn't do everything well, after all.

- Dave

[bobbolink]

160. UH OH! Are you dissing Capitalism??

:hide: :scared: :hide:

:)

Here's hoping you can get many, many people to understand the deep truth of what you just posted!

:thumbsup:

[CorpGovActivist]

165. Oh, Hell, the Best conservative Economists (Note the Small c)

... agree.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=martin+feldstein&spell=1

If I had to suffer through his lectures, at least I can cite back the subversive things he taught!

; )

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

87. Backdoor Draft...

... I agree with you - just pointing out that stop-loss orders have turned some military families into anti-Bush voters.

: )

- Dave

[omega minimo]

74. The passivity comes from the boomers droppin the ball

:hi:

[bobbolink]

81. ah, good trollin'

[omega minimo]

84. fuck that shit. boomers need to tell us why they went to sleep and LIHOP

but they won't.

[CorpGovActivist]

88. I Think I Agree, Depending on the Boomers...

... many boomers "sold out," or "cashed in," or "checked out" after a while.

Others carried on, and instilled the lessons of the 60s in their kids.

I wonder how much of the split between activist Gen X/Yers vs. passivist Gen X/Yers can be ascribed to the latchkey kid phenom? It may not be causative, but there may be some kind of noticeable correlation.

- Dave

[bobbolink]

161. I'm dismayed you're buying into this divisive tactic.....

Yanno, I haven't dissed the younger generations, so why do you want to start with this crap? Really, what do you expect this to accomplish?

Rather than further divide those who have supported you Right ON This Thread Of Yours, how 'bout reading what *really* is the truth? You game for that?

Try this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2469501&mesg_id=2469501

37. This is a very important point
When one considers "what went wrong" with the various movements in the Sixties, or "why did it fail" type of analysis. Well this entirely elides over the brutal reality that it was less about improper strategies, internal bickering and/or incoherent aspirations as it was about the fact that the movement got the crapped kicked out of it, infiltrated and assassinated. There was no political space, quite the contrary.

[CorpGovActivist]

166. I Should Have Been a Lot More Clear...

... I disagree with the 60's crowd sold out, wholesale, argument.

I KNOW there are many more from the Boomer Generation, still living their lives in the Direction of the Dream.

: )

My fault, for not making that clearer.

- Dave

[WritingIsMyReligion]

114. Yes, right onto our feet.

Oww.

Thanks, mom.

[omega minimo]

136. The majority of Boomers failed the following generations

by not recognizing the dangers of media consolidation and working to prevent it.

[helderheid]

72. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours

[Warren DeMontague]

77. So then why are you looking to John Fuckin' Mayer for inspiration?

Change the channel, Jack.

http://www.retroweb.com/rem/lyrics/menu_LifesRichPageant.html


When I was young and full of grace
and spirited--a rattlesnake.
When I was young and fever fell
My spirit, I will not tell
You're on your honor not to tell

I believe in coyotes and time as an abstract
Explain the change, the difference between
What you want and what you need, there's the key,
Your adventure for today, what do you do
Between the horns of the day?

I believe my shirt is wearing thin
And change is what I believe in

When I was young and give and take
And foolish said my fool awake
When I was young and fever fell
My spirit, I will not tell
You're on your honor, on your honor

Trust in your calling, make sure your calling's true
Think of others, the others think of you
Silly rule golden words make, practice, practice makes perfect,
Perfect is a fault, and fault lines change

I believe my humor's wearing thin
And change is what I believe in

I believe my shirt is wearing thin
And change is what I believe in

When I was young and full of grace
As spirited a rattlesnake
When I was young and fever fell
My spirit, I will not tell
You're on your honor, on your honor
I believe in example
I believe my throat hurts
Example is the checker to the key

I believe my humor's wearing thin
And I believe the poles are shifting

I believe my shirt is wearing thin
And change is what I believe in

[omega minimo]

80. ETA!

:rofl: :yourock: :headbang:

[Warren DeMontague]

83. World don't change itself any more than my kids' diapers do.

Requires audience participation.

Nice to see you, too. :hi:

[omega minimo]

86. Democracy is not a spectator sport

:patriot:

[CorpGovActivist]

89. I'm Not...

... but I wonder how many who hear that song buy into its premise?

- Dave

[Warren DeMontague]

96. I don't know. Haven't heard the song.

I've found his other stuff slightly insipid and not terribly inspiring.

My real question is, why isn't the next-gen post-Dead Jamband scene more political? That sometimes frustrates the hell out of me.

[CorpGovActivist]

113. Read Some of the Bios of the 60s Musicians...

... their awareness grew, reached critical mass, then exploded onto the scene.

Maybe some of those seismic rumblings are too deep to feel right now?

- Dave

[conscious evolution]

100. here's anotherone

All you Wall Street bloodsuckers
Thinking you're so swell
Though you've made us nothing to eat
Nothing to wear, nothing to sell
Go tell the hungry it's your superior destiny
That allows you diamond buttons on your coat
I dare say you'll gurgle a different tune
When they slit your throat

Chorus:
When good turns to evil
And push comes to shove
We must save the world
With an act of love

What we need's a little kindness
Reach out and touch my hand
Open up your heart
And adhere to nature's plan

All you army generals
With the orgasm of war up your rump
Tell me again how lucky I am
To come home with one arm and a stump
And all you wicked politicians
Destroying our great land
I know the day will soon be at hand
When your evil ways will be stricken
Your skin's gonna boil like a deep fried chicken

I went to see the president
He had a bruise on his shoulder where big business places its thumb
His breath was powerful, and he reeked of compromise
The force of evil is the disregard for the beauty that surrounds us
And the lessons that it teaches
So find a place where your feelings run pure
And the only law is the law of Nature



by J.Puryear of Donna the Buffalo

[Warren DeMontague]

102. Haven't heard that particular one, but I like what I've heard of DTB.

I remember hearing about them because David Gans said they were his favorite band at the time, so I know they come highly recommended. :hippie:

[conscious evolution]

105. If I Only Could

figure how I would provide some links to some of their music.All I can say is check out archive.org and give them a listen.You will be pleasantly surprised.
I gaurantee it.
here are some more lyrics
'A Current Theme'
Up all night sweatin' in the dark
Felt the truth enter into my heart
Made me high beyond a doubt
Singing this is what life must be all about

Chorus:
Down on the corner and I heard her scream
Good and evil it's a current theme
The drummers drum and the rattlers rattle
Good and evil it's a raging battle

Jesuit priests down in El Salvador
Working for justice and feeding the poor
They took 'em out and shot 'em one at a time
Their blood flowed just a like table wine

You know I heard Bob Marley say
There ain't no Rastas in the C.I.A.
Them government boys they think it's so funny
Uncle Sam's overseas killing for money

[Warren DeMontague]

107. Yeah, that's where I've found the shows of theirs that I've heard.

I'm a Deadhead, man. I'm all over archive.org!!! :hippie:

[conscious evolution]

109. I used to be a deadhead

now I consider myself a member of the herd.

[conscious evolution]

122. David is a very big fan

Check out his intro at Ashkanez(sp?) in Berkley.
There is also a great version of Dark Star he did with a keyboardist they brought in when their regular keyboardist went on maternaty leave.

[Jcrowley]

162. Well I have to give hat's off

for quoting Donna the Buffalo.

:toast:

[meganmonkey]

171. My humor sure is wearing thin

But I still believe in change...

That is one of my all-time favorite songs, I was probably about 12 when my big sister got this album. I love love love it. It is part of my "get-psyched for a political protest" repertoire :)

[tigereye]

91. Crosby Stills, Nash and Young, when they were here

said they hoped that the young musicians would get off their butts regarding the current political situation, so that they can relax, but it didn't look like it was happening. ;)


well, some of the young punks, and the Dixie Chicks have worked on political stuff, but I have to say Mayer's song, although it at least is a commnent, is a cop-out.

[CorpGovActivist]

92. The Answer, My Friend...

... is blowing in the wind.

There *are* some who are penning the lyrics. And have you noticed that TV has gotten somewhat topical and relevant lately?

Battlestar at 9!

- Dave

[Warren DeMontague]

95. R.E.M.. Bright Eyes. Jay Farrar. Steve Earle. James McMurtry. Ani DiFranco.

Michael Franti. Hell, even Eminem. The list goes on and on.

Hey- I love CSNY, but the idea that only baby boomer musicians (nothing against 'em- I'm a Deadhead, myself) are out there slogging it out is a lie. The question is, what is the music industry and Clear Channel promoting.

[CorpGovActivist]

112. 100% Agreed...

... and the point of my OP wasn't to say that Jon Mayer typifies current artists' sense of responsibility, or their gravitas - rather, I meant that Mayer's apathetic apology is atypical.

I think you're spot on the money when you point out that the Boomers don't have a monopoly on socially conscious music (though we'd be ingrates not to acknowledge their influence, wouldn't we?).

- Dave

[tigereye]

150. I didn't say I agreed

just what they said. Although most of those folks aren't the same age as Mayer....

[CorpGovActivist]

93. On Second Thought...

... maybe Jon Mayer didn't get enough Schoolhouse Rock in his musical diet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoolhouse_Rock

http://www.bcdb.com/cartoons/Other_Studios/A/American_Broadcast_Company/Schoolhouse_Rock/America_Rock/index.html

Maybe there is a correlation of those Gen X/Yers who got a steady diet of these, who turned out to be active versus passive?

; )

- Dave

[Maine-ah]

110. gen-x here who grew up on that chit! Loved it too

have the CD for my kid, along with CD's from Pete Seeger. It's the stuff I was raised on.

[CorpGovActivist]

121. Subversive Stuff, Wasn't It?

I will be rocking at the retirement home, singing, "I'm Just a Bill," because I'm convinced that's the last brain cell that's gonna go.

: )

- Dave

[JeffR]

97. Mayer's a smart guy. This may be irony.

Not saying it is. Just that it might be. Remember the fuss about Randy Newman's "Short People"?

Just sayin'.

[WCGreen]

99. Isn't it ironic that the message is lost on his audience...

[JeffR]

101. For sure

It's ironic how ironic irony can be...

[CorpGovActivist]

117. I Like Most of His Stuff...

... and I really, really thought I was missing the ironic twist.

I don't hear it.

- Dave

[donheld]

154. Lost on HIS audience, It's our own DUers who bash him

for his irony.

[donheld]

155. Lost on HIS audience, It's our own DUers who bash him

for his irony.

[CorpGovActivist]

115. Irony Too Subtle to Detect...

... may not be getting his intended point across, though.

I really kept listening for the "hook," or the "ironic twist of lyric or inflection," that would clue me in, as the listener, that he wasn't singing it straight.

Maybe if he had me face-to-face, he'd say I'm a moron for not picking up on the irony. If so, I'd ask him where, exactly, I was supposed to be clued in - and I'd give great deference to him, as the artist.

But I don't hear it.

- Dave

[JeffR]

130. Not sure that it's there to be heard

But thought I'd raise the possibility. If he was attempting irony, I'd agree with you that he failed.

[CorpGovActivist]

131. As Clever As He Is...

... I think he could - with a single note, a single word, a single inflection of tone - convey that "ironic wink" to his listeners.

- Dave

[JeffR]

133. No doubt

The biggest problem I had with Mayer when I first heard him was that the words were often indecipherable, in the tradition of singers like John Martyn. I started to get into his stuff after seeing him interviewed (and his speaking diction is flawless, strangely).

[CorpGovActivist]

134. The Reverse of Carly Simon...

... almost, who described how she couldn't talk, but she could sing.

- Dave

[JeffR]

135. !

:rofl:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

104. There were some songs in the early 1980s that made me crazy

One I don't remember too well, but its refrain, repeated endlessly into the fadeout, was "You'll never change the world." I kept thinking, "This song must be a psy-op."

Another was "I Need a Hero." It sounded like the soundtrack for a military recruiting ad.

Still another was "You've Gotta Fight for Your Right to Paaaaaaaaaaaaaarty!" by the Beastie Boys. Reagan was screwing over the economy, threatening nuclear war with the Soviets, and sponsoring the mass murder of civilians in Central America, and "You've Gotta Fight for Your Right to Party"?

In the anti-war marches of the past couple of years, I've noticed that Generation X is largely missing. There are a lot of high school and college students and a lot of us over fifty types. But the thirties and forties types, those who were in high school or college during the Reagan era, must all have absorbed the Reaganite message, by and large.

[Warren DeMontague]

108. Wow. What a crappy generalization THAT is.

Not all of us were listening to hair metal and grooving on "greed is good". Ever hear of a band called U2? How about R.E.M.? I'd suggest you check out a little album called Lifes Rich Pageant ...if you've never heard it, it's as solid & forceful a political album as has ever been made. Made in 1986, the heart of the Reagan 80s.

If you were listening to the wrong music throughout that decade, that's not our fault.


Speaking of Reagan, it might be interesting to get the demographic breakdowns on the 1984 and 1988 elections, to see which generations voted for whom. Because I can tell you one thing, "Gen X" put Bill Clinton in the White House, Twice. (You're Welcome.)

Campus activism in the 80s? Ever hear of CISPES? The Rainforest Action Network? Back when it seemed like Boomers were trying to forget that the 60s and positive social change ever happened, we were out there getting it fucking Started again.

Gen X'ers don't give a shit? Who is Jon Stewart? Janeane Garafolo? We've got a mayor here in San Francisco, named Gavin Newsom. Perhaps you've heard of him. Frankly, when he was running for mayor, I thought he was a blow-dried yuppie creep. But he's really stepped up to the plate regarding marriage rights for our gay and lesbian friends. He's 39 years old.

And you know what else? You use the Beastie Boys as an example- that's too funny. To be honest, I didn't like the Beastie Boys back then, either. But they're all right. I'd suggest you read this before you bag on the Beastie Boys for a song they wrote twenty years ago.

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/In-A-World-Gone-Mad-lyrics-Beastie-Boys/8F4A37F3DF9AD8A948256CF00005B084

In A World Gone Mad Lyrics


In a world gone mad it's hard to think right
So much violence hate and spite
Murder going on all day and night
Due time we fight the non-violent fight

Mirrors, smokescreens and lies
It's not the politicians but their actions I despise
You and Saddam should kick it like back in the day
With the cocaine and Courvoisier
But you build more bombs as you get more bold
As your mid-life crisis war unfolds
All you want to do is take control
Now put that axis of evil bullshit on hold
Citizen rule number 2080
Politicians are shady
So people watch your back 'cause I think they smoke crack
I don't doubt it look at how they act


In a world gone mad it's hard to think right
So much violence hate and spite
Murder going on all day and night
Due time we fight the non-violent fight

First the 'War On Terror' now war on Iraq
We're reaching a point where we can't turn back
Let's lose the guns and let's lose the bombs
And stop the corporate contributions that theyre built upon
Well I'll be sleeping on your speeches 'til I start to snore
'Cause I won't carry guns for an oil war
As-Salamu alaikum, wa alaikum assalam
Peace to the Middle East peace to Islam
Now don't get us wrong 'cause we love America
But that's no reason to get hysterica
They're layin' on the syrup thick
We ain't waffles we ain't havin' it


In a world gone mad it's hard to think right
So much violence hate and spite
Murder going on all day and night
Due time we fight the non-violent fight

Now how many people must get killed?
For oil families pockets to get filled?
How many oil families get killed?
Not a damn one so what's the deal?

It's time to lead the way and de-escalate
Lose the weapons of mass destruction and the hate
Say ooh ah what's the White House doin'?
Oh no! Say, what they got brewing?!
Well I'm not pro Bush and I'm not pro Saddam
We need these fools to remain calm
George Bush you're looking like Zoo Lander
Trying to play tough for the camera
What am I on crazy pills? We've got to stop it
Get your hand out my grandma's pocket
We need health care more than going to war
You think it's democracy they're fighting for?


In a world gone mad it's hard to think right
So much violence hate and spite
Murder going on all day and night
Due time we fight the non-violent fight

[Lydia Leftcoast]

138. Look, I know that not all GenXers are mindless yuppies, anymore than

all baby boomers were hippies, but the college students I taught in the late 1980s and early 1990s were, to a large extent. Not exclusively, but to a large extent.

Party nights were Friday, Saturday, and Wednesday, and the sports teams always drew crowds, but the wonderflu cultural events that occurred on campus or the world-famous speakers, such as Jimmy Carter, Elie Wiesel, and Studs Terkel who were resident on campus? These were attended by faculty, townspeople, and maybe 10% of the students. And I wasn't the only one to complain about students who wanted good grades with as little learning as possible. Many of them were actively hostile to anything that wasn't business, computers, sports, partying, or pop culture.

Future Republicans, I'm sure.

Not all colleges were like that. There were always activist campuses, and the large state universities had chapters of CISPES and chapters of everything else, but this was also the era in which ROTC became the only dependable source of non-loan financial aid, and some of those students were turning fascist before my eyes.

Overall, the mood was very discouraging for academics, not so much the politics, but the anti-intellectualism, and from the point of view of this former college professor, the pop culture was actively anti-intellectual, except in its more obscure corners.

[Warren DeMontague]

140. I think you were maybe seeing the wrong cross-section,

at the wrong college, and for sure listening to the wrong music.

If one cherry-picked chart topping examples like the Monkees and the Turtles, one could classify the pop culture of the late 60s as "anti-intellectual", too. (R.E.M. "Murmur" was voted Rolling Stone's Best Album of 1983. They were "obscure" during the 80s only if you were willfully not paying attention) Don't get me started on the 70s. The hidden backstory on the 80s was, while many boomers were investing or navel gazing, real grassroots change and awareness was being built and put into motion. Maybe some of those college students you speak of were too busy protesting apartheid, the Contras, and getting the CIA presence off campuses with Amy Carter to go and see Jimmy speak.

Like I said, I'd like to see the generational breakdown on the voters who put Reagan into office twice and Poppy in once. Because, again, I know it was Gen X who elected Bill Clinton.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

141. Not at that particular college

Maybe some of those college students you speak of were too busy protesting apartheid, the Contras, and getting the CIA presence off campuses with Amy Carter to go and see Jimmy speak.

No way were those Freddy Fratrats and Susie Sororities off protesting apartheid. Getting blotto on a Wednesday night, more likely. There were maybe fifteen politically concerned students on the last campus I taught at, the one where Jimmy Carter spoke. They went to the Nevada test site and protested against clear-cutting, but they were the only ones, and the other students considered them "granolas."

The large state university where I taught had more variety, but the overall tone was, "Don't bother me, I'm rush chairman."

I'm sure it was different at Madison or Boulder or Oberlin or Humboldt State. But not where I was.

(And I never meant to say that there was NO worthwhile music in the 1980s. It was just that those songs I mentioned seemed like psy ops to me, and face it, more people listen to Top 40 radio than to the more advanced genres.)

[Warren DeMontague]

143. You're right about the top 40. Which is why I mention the Monkees and the Turtles.

I'm also not sure which protests you've been going to, where everyone is either over 50 or under 30. Maybe you can find some photographic evidence, so we can try to nail down just who is bothering to show up and who isn't. (I flew 3,000 miles to the March for Womens' Lives in DC in 2004, and not only am I a Gen X'er, I don't even have a uterus. Go figure.)

I just think broad-based generational generalizations and slams are -pretty much by definition- lazy and weak, and in this case (regardless of your personal experience, IMHO) they miss the mark of truth by a big range as well. They do a grave disservice to those of us- and there are a lot of us- (I wish I had time to hunt down a recent DU poll on people's ages, but a lot of folks here fall into the "Gen X" demographic) who have spent the past few decades working hard for change.

Peace.

Edit: And it's not like the baby boomer generation didn't have its share of drunken, stupid, self-absorbed frat rats!

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,262811,00.jpg

[Lydia Leftcoast]

144. Actually, Top 40 in the 1960s included bands like

The Rolling Stones, the Beatles, Jefferson Airplane, Cream, Rod Stewart, the Doors, Janis Joplin, the Byrds, and Simon and Garfunkel, none of whom are "bubble gum." But we considered the bubble gum stuff unworthy of anyone over the age of 13, which is why we called it "bubble gum."

[Warren DeMontague]

146. Thanks for clearing that up. Top 40 in the 80s included U2, R.E.M., Peter Gabriel,

Tracy Chapman, 10,000 Maniacs, and (if I remember correctly) a little band called the Grateful Dead.

[bobbolink]

164. So, you "fix" it with a generalization of your own.

Great peacemaking, that.

Try reading the post further down, with the subject line "My 2 cents".

Then a little acknowledgement that you made the same, hurtful generalization, which further fragmented THE DEMOCRATS ON DU.

Try some peace. It helps.

[CorpGovActivist]

119. Tears for Fears...

... had some pretty subversive stuff.

As for the presence of Gen Xers ... we're around. As the first generation to come of age with personal computers, we're also aware that sometimes using the technical tools at our disposal is a "force multiplier," so don't infer too much from our physical absence.

- Dave

[JVS]

169. Oh come on! "You gotta fight for your right to paaaaaaaarty!" kicks ass!

[helderheid]

124. have you sent him this? You should!

[CorpGovActivist]

125. Maybe after November 8th...

... I'll fire it over, and see if I get a response back.

Maybe he'll set me straight.

- Dave

[Generator]

127. One word: Draft

That's all that will change this. AND Du'ers hate it-not me-not my baby-oh I know-I will do anything on earth to keep my kids out of the military. Anything. Mmmm that's a clue.

My fear is Bush (with or without a majority Repug congress-it doesn't really matter-signing statements baby!) will end out his term or sooner attacking Iran, blaming it on them shooting first-institute a draft and then wow the MCA and marshal law will really come in handy.

The sixties on acid, meth and crack combined.

[CorpGovActivist]

128. Will Diebold...

... machines dole out the draft numbers?

[SPKrazy]

139. Life Ain't Fair!

get a damned helmet!

[Jamastiene]

142. That's funny.

I keep hearing that GenX and GenY vote democratic most of the time as opposed to many other generations who routinely vote republican, so...maybe we aren't total losers who deserve to be kicked to the curb right before it looks like dems might win the House back. Of course, if we do, we'll be in good company with the gay people.

[Warren DeMontague]

145. Yeah, someone should dig up the numbers on Clinton's 2 elections.

I seem to remember that what was then called the "Youth Vote" (i.e. Gen X) was responsible for putting him in the WH.

[Jamastiene]

147. Yep, here are some sources:

2004, by age (scroll down), the exit polls:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

2000 exit polls
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/index.epolls.html

1996 exit polls
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/elections/natl.exit.poll/index1.html

1992 exit polls
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_election#Voter_demographics
Source: The New York Times, November 10, 1996, 28

These are some of the results...Seems the younger bunch might whine, but we also vote. :)

[Warren DeMontague]

149. Thanks!

:yourock:

[Chomskyite]

148. Never could stand Mayer

. . . who can't seem to NOT sound like Dave Matthews. He's a rock artist no one's mother would be bothered by. Which means, for me, he's not a rock artist.

[Warren DeMontague]

151. Dave Matthews without the edge.

;-)

[omega minimo]

152. Dave Matthews has an edge?

:yoiks: :wow: :shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

153. That was the joke.

:patriot:

[donheld]

156. I'll stand by John and the song

I think John ment is quite the opposite of how you took it. John is singing the blues. I'll bet you didn't like him to start with.

[Vinca]

157. Waiting, waiting for the draft to be reinstituted?

Do nothing, allow King George to rule, and - like it or not - your whiney ass will be in Iran. Or North Korea. Or Iraq.

[CorpGovActivist]

158. Excellent Point...

... how many of Jon Mayer's friends can find Canada on a map?

; )

- Dave

[Jcrowley]

163. My two cents

The first point to be made is that whenever we use the broad brush labels to create a cogent analysis of any situation the result will usually end up as a sweeping generalization that omits all of what slops outside the complexities of our everyday lives. I am especially leery of using any labels that have been popularized by mass marketing and demographic surveys. In short Gen X, Gen Y and Baby Boomers are loaded terms that are created and held dear by pop culture mass marketeers and political focus groups.

What all of this omits is where our attentions should be focused. I think it to be a waste of time to focus on the all to real and very frustrating apathy that is endemic across the entire alphabet soup of Madison Ave. generational concoctions. Sadly this sort of thinking turns attentions on what the individuals responsibilities are, and there are some to be sure, thusly diverting attention from the enormous criminality of the larger system. Better to focus our attentions on the titanic forces that are responsible for this alienation and indifference. Resolve those issues and much of the apathy will dissipate though it will never fully disappear.

Rather than approaching it from the point of "What's wrong with the disengaged?" it might be best to consider "Why are they so disengaged and what are the forces at work?"

As to what went wrong with "the boomer's" or "movements of the sixties" or however one wants to phrase that the answer is nothing. Not to say there were not plenty of bad decisions and internal struggles that made things less than cohesive (understatement) but none of that really decided much of anything in the final analysis. What happened was that The State beat the Sixties Movements over the head with a baton, infiltrated every organization, assassinated all of the best leaders and imprisoned the rest. It never failed, that chance was never allowed, it was murdered.

Here's what I posted in a different thread.

37. This is a very important point
When one considers "what went wrong" with the various movements in the Sixties, or "why did it fail" type of analysis. Well this entirely elides over the brutal reality that it was less about improper strategies, internal bickering and/or incoherent aspirations as it was about the fact that the movement got the crapped kicked out of it, infiltrated and assassinated. There was no political space, quite the contrary.

As someone who teaches at the highest levels of academia I will tell you education is not the answer, not in any sense, rather it is one of THE big problems which create such an abstracted, distracted and apathetic culture.

[DrunkenMaster]

167. Mayer Sucks - Try The Thermals!

The new album by garage band The Thermals titled "The Body, The Blood, The Machine" is amazing and angry. Here are the reviews:

http://www.metacritic.com/music/artists/thermals/thebodythebloodthemachine

The Onion says that "perhaps no other album this year—opens with a song as fantastic as The Thermals' "Here's Your Future," a hook-laden garage-rocker that immediately establishes the theme: "God reached his hand down from the sky / he flooded the land, then he set it afire," sings guitarist-vocalist Hutch Harris, later adding, "so bend your knees and bow your heads / save your babies, here's your future." The tyranny of religious zealotry makes that future (and present) look ominous, and The Thermals make sure no one misses the point, with a painting of Jesus on the album cover and another in the liner notes of Moses wielding the 10 commandments at the Capitol building. But The Machine isn't about subtle commentary: It's 36 minutes of loose garage rock with massively catchy melodies sugarcoating the biting sarcasm."