Kill The Brown People!!!!!!!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

I think that's what Dobbs and Company really want.

(Please Note: I am a pacifist and I do not advocate killing ANYONE but the current hatred for the people being drawn here by the people who illegally pay non-citizens to make more money by Lou Dobbs is really pissing me off).

[Sherman A1]

1. I disagree

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

2. Good argument.... And....

With the title or the message?

[Sherman A1]

3. Both

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

5. Okay.... and why.......

Jesus, it's like pulling teeth with some people.

[Sherman A1]

8. I was trying to be slow

to see how many of these threads you are going to start on the same subject.....

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. This was the last one... there were two... And your point?

[Wonk]

14. *snarf*

:rofl:

[Mr_Spock]

39. Great argument

I agree with you.

[judaspriestess]

4. what he should really be advocating

is somehow forcing these governments (mexico,central america) to reform and not pawn all their poor overpopulated hungry people on other countries.

I'm a brown person :) a really pretty brown person too....

[EFerrari]

17. Those governments don't have a chance to reform as long as

the American government bribes and bullies them into providing cheap labor and handing over their resources to American corporate interests.

There is a reason Latin America has been full of poverty. We are that reason.

So, that whole "those governments should do something for their people" argument comes back into the lap of the American government.

[Cleita]

6. And another thing, I really hate that people who are not

victimized by the system try to justify their bias by trying to say that the immigrants are criminals who are breaking the law. They are victims who are being blamed for unlawful employment practices by American employers.

The same could have been said about runaway slaves in the south. The hispanic immigrants are another demographic of people who are treated like slaves and who have no rights when it comes to unfair employment practices. Let's get the facts right here.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

7. Ka-ching. That's exactly what I'm seing in this debate. n/t

[panader0]

9. Borders are artificial lines drawn by politicians, usually after a war

Some day there will be no boundries, and people will live on one earth, with no war, or else be extinct.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Gee, there were 3 of them at my house cutting down a dead tree.

A very large fir tree, well over a 100 feet tall, too near our house. They were were working for a young white guy. Dangerous work. They were doing the "shit" work, trimming the branches, cutting up the felled trunk, feeding the branches into the mulcher, raking, etc.

I don't KNOW that they were "illegals" but none of the 3 spoke English and I didn't ask for their "papers".

I offered them coffee, but they just wanted water, which I gave them. I also gave each my thanks for a job well done in my best high-school Spanish and a tip.

Did I do a bad, unAmerican, thing? I'm sure Lou would have been upset at my rewarding evil "illegals" destroying our country by working hard and doing a good job.

[msongs]

12. were they just doing work an american (you?) would not do?

don't think you having them do the work is a "bad, unAmerican, thing", since the tree needed removing, somebody had found the workers and connected them with the opportunity, and you paid them plus were kind and generous.

did you keep the firewood or did they take that out and sell it for some extra profit off the job? now THAT is the american thing, get you to pay them for making money selling the wood :-)

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. They stole my job.

I could have clambered up that tree myself with my trusty chain-saw, cut off the branches, sectioned the tree into 10ft pieces, felled them expertly, then sawed them into usable chunks for firewood, mulched the 50lb branches, raked up debris and mulched that, and then had my wife call the ambulance for my 62 year old body, assuming I survived.

I kept the firewood, having only to split it.

I suppose I could have informed "La Migra" and had them deported for stealing my job.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. No... Someone else decided to break the law and hire them...

They gave them the job. They are the first in breaking the law or "stealing."

You just didnt get there first with a competitive offer.

[razors edge]

16. I did that at 40

and it almost killed me, and I borrowed my electrician buddies bucket truck.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Did you check your "papers" to make sure you were "legal".

I might have tried it at 40. But, having a 62 year old body has the advantage of reminding one that he is no longer 40 and deluded enough to think that he is 20. Hell, just splitting some of that wood is a great reminder.

[razors edge]

22. I've got twenty years or more

of someone else checking my papers to look forward to I fear.:evilfrown:

If I were you, I'd age it a year and rent a splitter, and maybe a grandkid or two.:toast:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Let's just say that I'm taking my time.

That wood's going to get plenty aged before all of it gets split.

Alas, my wife and I were really unAmerican and chose not to have kids...hence no grandkids to cajole into splitting wood.

[razors edge]

28. I wouldn't call it

unAmerican, just a choice we all have/get to make for ourselves, one of the few we have left for that matter.

[Berserker]

26. Here you go

I hear all the time about how the corporations are bringing the Illegals here but it's people like you who helps this shit. Turn that contractor in for hiring them.
Here http://www.wehirealiens.com/default.asp
Why did you not even ask?

Your question: destroying our country by working hard and doing a good job?
No helping to destroy the jobs of Legal hard working Americans.

[razors edge]

29. My cherokee friend said something very similar. n/t

[treestar]

30. They do not "destroy jobs" by taking those.

Jobs beget other jobs. Economic activities are more dynamic than that.

When they couldn't get people to pick the crops, the crops spoiled, somebody in trucking or at the market could have lost their job.

This view of things is so narrow mindedly stupid I can't figure out how people can be so divorced from reality.

These people shouldn't be illegal just because they are needed. We're going to lose jobs if the economy is stoppered up, we have to let in the labor needed at the bottom to keep it going.

If they were legal the employers could not undercut wages to any Americans left who would still be so poor they are doing these jobs. As it is now, the threat of deportation is what they use to keep those wages undercut.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. I'd rather not.

The "illegals" (if they were) were just as "hard working" as any native born Americans I ever ran across.

Why should I ask? Since when is it my business to put poor people at risk of being deported?

[Richard Steele]

40. Pfft. Step away from the koolaid, and take a deep breath. nm

[peanutbrittle]

18. Were there not other views allowed on the segment?

Seems to me that there were several issues addressed. From the corruption in the Mexican Government& the responsibility of that government to it's people to the responsibility of our Government to our people and our safety and interests, to the comment by the guy regarding the "indigenous mexican people" who want their land back from the U.S. Sounded to me like they covered the spectrum of issues.

[countryjake]

37. That guy did not say they wanted their lands back, he said IDENTITY...

Until the identity of the machica is included as an indigenous person into immigration legislation, there will be no Justice.

He said at least return their identity. They are indigenous people to this land.

[RB TexLa]

20. Dobbs says it's a "war" I'm sure his followers will start shooting

at some point.

[DenaliDemocrat]

21. Hmmmmm

The problem is that Mexico is an oligarchy where the ruling class have basically made it impossible for anyone to survive except themselves. The poor (and they are third world poor) come here to survive, which I cannot blame them. I would do it too.

Conversely, I really do not like paying to support the wealthiest of the Mexican people by supplementing the poor they won't take care of themselves, and I resent our own government subsidizing the problem by allowing American corporations to operate cheaply in Mexico.

So, I empathize, but really, I have enough on my plate trying to support myself without having to support the interests of the Mexican oligarchy by taking care of their poor. A fence won't help. We do need someone to stand up to the Mexican government and force them to reform. We should not be expected to finance the Mexican corruption, also the immigrants should not be forced to come here for slave wages and told to be happy.

[peanutbrittle]

24. The U.S. needs to start getting tough with that oligarchy

whom is oppressing it's people.

Doesn't it seem strange that we hear not a peep out of our "Supreme decider" denouncing the oligarchy that thrives in the country right on our border?

It's time for someone to start getting tough with them. IMO

[DenaliDemocrat]

25. Bush will not

We should get tough with the Mexican government, the Chinese government, and most of central America. Our Boy Idiot in Charge preaches morality, but fails to demand basic human rights for the poorest of our neighbors. Hell, he won't even take care of our poor in this country...and I'm not talking welfare either. I am talking about productive citizens who have worked all their lives only to find their pensions gone, no health insurance, can't afford their kids' tuition.

Hell...if this keeps up WE will be an oligarchy.

[peanutbrittle]

31. That's true,

How can we expect to do anything about the systemic social problems in Mexico when we can't even take care of our own social problems.

I also think Bush is just to $$buddy buddy$$ with Fox to stand up to him. This compounds the problem.

[DenaliDemocrat]

33. Why wouldn't he be?

I believe that the Bush's all believe that they are somehow "better", more entitled, etc. Just look at momma Bush's comments after Katrina. Bush's policies enforce the formation of an oligarchy here. The dissolution of the inheritance tax is just one step to ensure that extreme wealth remains in a family. It effects so few people (over 2 million in assets), what other explanation could there be?

[Berserker]

32. What?

Also the immigrants should not be forced to come here for slave wages and told to be happy.

Who the hell forced them? The first thing they did was Illegal by coming here think about it. Slave wages? Stop listening to that garbage they are taking high paying construction jobs Illegally. Here is and example.
Contractors With Illegally Obtained Licenses.
http://www.miamidade.gov/contractors/contractor-list.asp
Read the names they not only come here Illegally they use Illegal contractors Licenses and take work. How many hard working American family's do you think this hurts? Give me a break.

[DenaliDemocrat]

34. Their government forced them

The oligarchy in Mexico basically has it set up so that they pay no taxes. The small businesses are taxed so heavily, they cannot operate in Mexico. This shadow economy exists in mexico. Mexico has a very small middle class, an oligarchy of about 1000 families, and the rest poor of which about half are third world country poor.

They aren't here because they WANT to be here, they are here because they HAVE to be here.

For every one construction worker there are probably ten migrants picking lettuce...I lived in an agricultural area and saw it first hand.

I am no fan of illegal immigration, but I am a realist. People in survival mode do what they have to do, and no stupid fence, border patrols, or legislation will stop the influx of people coming here to survive. Fix the blame, not the cuase.

[peanutbrittle]

35. I was a licensed contractor in Fla.

How in the hell did they let that happen?!! Is there an article somewhere you can direct me to?

Florida makes it extremely difficult to obtain a contractors license...believe me I know.

There are Florida Corp. issues, Workers Comp issues, insurance, testing issues and financial issues.

The majority of illegals work for someone else..not themselves. The overall effect is a suppression of wages in the industries for the average tradesman.

Good news is, here in OK where I'm at now, many builders won't use foreign crews anymore due to the quality issues and getting them back to fix their crap work. Most of them are nomads. OK has no licensing issues except for Elect, Plumbers & HVAC which allows for quite an influx in the other trades

[peanutbrittle]

36. found the article

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/15474883.htm

snip

The new numbers are in: 268 illegal contractors, 3,153 illegally obtained work permits, two men in jail -- and the alleged mastermind of one of the largest building scams in Miami-Dade County history still on the run.

Still unknown: The total number of permits issued by the county for work done by the illegal contractors.

And still missing is Lazaro Herrera, the man police and Building Code Compliance officials say used stolen pass codes to print up illegal contractor licenses, then sold them to unscrupulous contractors for between $2,000 and $15,000 each.

snip

PASS CODE THEFT

The three men are accused of stealing a pass code from a co-worker and, over the past two years, printing up contractor licenses and selling them without proper background checks. Police found about $250,000 in cash in the suspects' homes, much of it hidden in shoe boxes.

As of last month, the county had identified 178 illegally licensed contractors who had done work on about 700 jobs in unincorporated Miami-Dade County.

Herrera's personnel file is full of glowing achievements dating back to 1999, when he was hired. As a senior system analyst, he earned $85,700 a year.


more....

[usregimechange]

27. What if they steal our white women?

[Cleita]

41. And what if the white guys steal the Latina women?

LOL! Ya know. It works both ways.

[Unvanguard]

42. All borders are illegitimate.

Stopping people from crossing the US-Mexico border is no better than drawing any other arbitrary line - say, in the middle of the US - and stopping people from crossing that one.

All workers deserve rights and a decent existence, whatever their nationality.