Everyone who says gays need to wait, needs to watch this commercial.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

Go to www.GardenStateEquality.org then click on the green button labeled GSE's TV COMMERCIAL.

Watch that. Then, come back here and tell us that gay people need to wait for marriage equality, until it's at a time that you deem convenient.

[Heidi]

1. Recommended.

:thumbsup:

[Behind the Aegis]

2. The time for gay rights is...

NOW!!!

Don't blame us for another election! Stop blaming the victims! Blame the fucking homophobes!

[troubleinwinter]

45. "NOW!!" as in immediately and unrelentingly. NOW!!!!

[NMMNG]

3. We've already waited too long

If we wait "until it's an opportune time" we'll never get it.

[Nicole]

4. K & R

:kick:

[Bluebear]

5. Rec #5

[enigmatic]

6. This is a no-brainer

Gays and Lesbians deserve the same rights of marriage as hetrosexuals enjoy; that we're still having debates about this in 2006 sickens me.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

7. Honestly between GD and GD:P, I feel like I fell into FR.

It's been so draining.

[orleans]

9. why? n/t

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

10. Homophobes crawling out of the woodwork isn't fun for lesbians. nt

[orleans]

13. glad i missed it. sounds like it must've been bad--hence the

comparison to FR

[LostinVA]

27. Totally -- appalling and disheartening, eh?

[silverojo]

29. Democrats deserve the same rights Republicans enjoy

But we aren't getting those rights, either.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

47. That's deeply unfair

What people are debating is not whether or not legal recognition of gay marriage would be a good thing, it's whether or not, and how or how not, *campaigning for* gay marriage is a good thing, and that's a totally different issue.

I think that the introduction of national health care, the repeal of the second ammendment and the abolition of the death penalty (a far more fundamental, albeit less widespread, violation of something that ought to be a right that the ban on gay marriage) but I don't want the Democratic party to make those planks of its platform because I think campaigning for them would do more harm than good.

There's a world of difference between saying "X wouldn't be a good thing" and "Taking action Y with the stated goal of achieving X wouldn't be a good thing".

[me b zola]

51. Doing the right thing, standing for civil & human rights...

Doing the right thing, standing for civil & human rights is rarely, if ever, politically adventagious.

Most republicans were enraged by Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation & by his insistence on equal rights for newly freed slaves. Should Lincoln have waited for his party and their voters to agree with him before he lead the country to meet the promise of the Constitution & the Bill of Rights?

The powers that be wrung their hands at the anti-war sentiment within the Democratic Party during the Vietnam War, were they right to drag their feet in demanding a withdrawl? If you say yes, then tell that to the thousands of people who lost their lives while people played politics with foreign policy.


Leadership is an art that should be respected. The balancing act between listening to, and representing your constituents on most things, and the wisdom to lead your people into following & respecting the Constitution even when they are afraid to.

[ckimmy57]

49. Here here

My brother-in-law and his partner have been together longer (over 18 years) then most heterosexual couples. I feel they should have the same rights as any other couple. :applause:

[Dragonbreathp9d]

8. wow, k&r

[kdpeters]

11. No. They'd rather swoon over gay sex, not real gay lives.

Some Repubublican in Floriday alegedly had gay sex according to an anonymous second hand account. THAT'S worthy of 120 greatest votes on DU. This? Not so much. I don't vote often, but I thought this very important. Only the 10th person to think so. I think I'm totally out of touch with DU. Why is alleged, hypocritical, republican gay sex so much more worthy for us DUers than longterm committed struggling gay love?

I don't get it. Maybe time to move on?

[cboy4]

15. Believe me, I bet just about every gay one of us has had the same

discussion with ourselves.

It's extremely frustrating on days like yesterday when the NJ decision came down.

The homophobia can seem overwhelming at times . . . as I try to convince myself that these people are actually on my side.

So the bottom line is don't feel alone.

I understand everything you said to the letter.

[cboy4]

12. Exactly.....tell people on their death beds to just hang on a couple

of weeks until the election is over.

It's disgraceful.

HUMAN RIGHTS ARE NON-NEGOTIABLE

And as someone else said, what happens after the election?

If we do win the senate, it would be, oh, don't bring that gay stuff up....we don't wanna rock the boat and lose control.

It never ends.

We wait no more.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

14. It was a fight, but the county did choose to do the right thing.

Her partner was awarded her pension benefits. Due to that police officer, I think most of the NJ counties now offer pension benefits to same-sex partners, but clearly that is not enough. There was public support of her plight during the fight to even get pension benefits. I'm glad that Garden State Equality is using that commercial to air in NJ.

[cboy4]

16. Sure but there are certainly other gay and lesbian people on their death

beds who are NOT going to receive their partners' benefits.

She was fortunate in a sense that the county chose to do the right thing.

Not everyone is as lucky, and those are the people I'm referring to who don't have time to wait for election cycles to pass.

Their lives are in the balance.

But then again, you know all this! :)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

17. Yeah, I know.

I was just referring to the fact that I think that using her for the commercials will really help with the public support.

[cboy4]

18. Yea, you would think. It's a terrific marketing idea, but how sad

we have to show the face of a dying woman to help illustrate we deserve human rights.

It's outrageous.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

19. Kick!

:kick:

[JNelson6563]

20. Equal rights will be won through politics

as soon as everyone gets a clue about how politics works. Strategic thinking and action is required. If some want to take such a statement and fashion it into a cross to drag about then they reveal their own political ignorance.

Julie

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

21. Did the black civil rights movement wait until they had permission?

No, they didn't and neither should we.

Did you even watch the commercial? What are your thoughts on that? There are plenty of other threads you can join in on telling the gays to get on the back of the bus and enjoy it, but that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about the Garden State Equality commercial campaign.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xchrom]

22. where would the civil rights movement be with brown v the board of education?

something has to happen that moves things forward.

and sometimes it's a courts decision.

[Malikshah]

39. OOOhhh the chess game ruse

yup-- it's politics...wait wait wait wait...can't rile people up-- must make right move at right time...

No...it's a dance.. yup that's it.

We've had that for too long.

The time is now.

[Solly Mack]

23. Recommended

[Donald Ian Rankin]

24. This is missing the poing.

The question which determines whether or not advocating gay marriage is a good idea is *not*

"Would gay marriage be a good thing",

It's

"Would advocating gay marriage in this way make the world a better place".

Those have far less to do with one another than might appear at first glance, because I suspect that the primary effect of advocating gay marriage in many ways will be to give more fuel to anti-gay politicians, and actually harm gay rights

N.B: The second question needs to be asked separately for every forum or possible platform, and the answer will not always be the same, I think.

But you can present me with all the reasons in the world why gay marriage would be a very good thing indeed, and the sooner the better, and I will completely ignore them - I already agree with you, but that's not the issue. The issue is whether campaigning for it in a given way will help achieve it sooner, and what it will achieve in terms of its more general effects on gay rights and other issues, and this advert doesn't say anything whatsoever about that, and as such doesn't influence my views at all.

FWIW, I think that the approach on gay marriage most likely to pay dividends is to say "leave it to the states" on a federal level, and to press for it in those states where there's a chance of achieving it and to leave it in favour of other, smaller, potentially achievable goals in the rest (which will, alas, be the majority).

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

26. Well, this is in a state where the majority support gay marriage.

Despite that, the court ruling has been shit on by DUers from the second it was handed down. We didn't even have a second to enjoy our victory, because it was declared that we were ruining the chances of Dems nationwide, even though the ruling had to come now, due to forced retirement of the chief justice.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

28. I think there are fair arguments on both sides.

This ruling is undoubtely a good thing, but I think it's fairly undeniable that it *will* harm the Democrats in the election, although hopefully not that much. But still, I think that on balance it's clearly a good thing.

I would say that drawing more attention to it than necessary is perhaps unwise, though.

[Heidi]

30. Further, "leaving it to the states" could very well promote segregation

based on sexual orientation. We couldn't trust the states to guarantee equal rights to the disabled, women or minorities. Why should this be a states' rights issue? Why on earth should a person have to move to another state in order to enjoy the same rights as the rest of us? In my heart and mind, that sort of forced segregation is no different than what black families endured before federal civil rights legislation was imposed.

If we leave it to the states to ensure equal rights for the GLBT community and some states don't follow through, those states deserve every economic reprisal that would come with forcing at least 10 percent of their population to relocate in order to be treated equally.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

46. The reason this should be a states' rights issue is pragmatism.

I'm from the UK. I believe in individual rights, and government powers. The entire idea of state's rights strikes me as a bizarre one, and I couldn't give a colourful metaphor of your choice about them.

The reason I think that gay rights should be presented by the Democrats as a states rights issue is because if it's presented nationally, you won't get gay rights anywhere, where as if it's left to the states then a few states will protect them, although most won't.

I don't think there's any particular constitutional reason why gay rights should be a state issue while women, minorities etc are federal; I simply favour it being that way because that way you get the best deals in each case. It's a purely cynical position in my case, but it's the one most likely to pay dividends.

While I don't like a person having to move states to enjoy equal rights, it's better than them not getting them at all, which is what the alternative would be.

[JudyM]

33. It was a 7-0 victory. Her retirement would not have changed the result.

I'm elated about the decision. Just wish it wasn't right before the election because here in Virginia, where it's neck and neck, the rethugs' GOTV efforts will undoubtedly be more successful because we have an anti-gay-marriage amendment on the ballot. Puts us a little more against the wall. That is not to take away from the miraculousness of the NJ opinion, itself, just looking at the likely repurcussions of the timing, which benefits ONLY the rethugs in states that have marriage amendments on the ballot.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

34. You know it was the Republicans that wanted to call it marriage, right?

The Democrats wimped out on going all the way. That's where the 4-3 split comes from within the unanimous decision. And if it affects elections in other states, well then perhaps the liberals just have to take a note from the Republicans and get their shit together. It's pathetic, if they haven't managed that yet. If the race is so close, that the Republicans can mobilize quickly and win it, then the Democrats should be able to figure out how to do it, as well.

And I think this Salon letter sums up the issue for the southern states:

I don't really think this will matter. It's the 4th state after all, and it's NJ, not Georgia. Everyone already knew NJ is a hotbed of sin -- closeted governor, Atlantic Titty, black people in charge of cities (Newark). If the southern baptists needed a reason to hate NJ, they already had plenty.

[JudyM]

35. See, I think the blame belongs on the rethugs, and their hateful, twisted

manipulation of the public psyche through the media. And a good share of the blame belongs to the media, itself, for its ineptitude and negligenct failure to report truth in favor of parroting Rovian spin. Blaming the Dems is blaming the victim. Sure, we need to be stronger and crisper in responding to the BS, but that doesn't make it our fault. We just have a ways to go in defending ourselves and our values. Being a Dem today has been cast in the public as being a loser. I am hoping that winning the majority position in Congress will raise the volume and frequency of our message to the public.

[mainegreen]

31. It's hard arguing against the 'give up your beliefs for a while' crowd...

around here. They don't like the 'No, dammit, I'm going to stand up for what I believe and think is right' response.

Personally, I'm glad NJ stood up for itself and did what is right.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

32. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[LeftHander]

36. Social Justice requires no "time frame".

There is no "better" time for equality than now.

To say the time isn't right to make the world a more fair and just place is simply a tactic used by people who are bigoted.

on edit..it was'nt exactly well said...added "time" after better....(sheeesh)

[Solly Mack]

38. And there it is

well said!

[Orsino]

37. K&R. How do you ask anyone to die...

...as less than a citizen? I could imagine a black woman on her deathbed, waiting for her chance to vote.

Don't compromise on the basics, ever.

[Mabus]

40. Without watching the commercial, I can say I fully support the decision

and don't give a rat's ass when it came down. GLBT people need to have their rights protected and we should all stand together and celebrate a ruling like this regardless of the timing. Why shouldn't we all celebrate a court decision that recognizes that everyone deserves the same rights and protections that every other person in the country should have? This is about human rights in America.

I am a middle-aged woman with a very racially mixed heritage. I have brown skin. That's the way I was born and that's the way I'll die.

I grew up in the 60's in a very white neighborhood in Oklahoma City. In fact, my family was the minority population for our neighborhood schools for close to ten years. My family and I experienced a lot of racism. My mother, a full blooded Arapaho woman, was mistaken for domestic help when we first moved to our neighborhood. There were some kids that I went to school with that weren't allowed to play with me (except when they had to) or talk to me just because I wasn't all white. It hurt a lot and I had trouble understanding why they weren't allowed to interact with me. After all, I lived in the same neighborhood they did, I lived a similar life to the one they led, when I walked out on the playground I saw the same things they did, I had the same opportunities they had, why was I considered different?

I missed out on some of my classmate's birthday parties too. I was either not invited or un-invited once I got to the house and the parents saw me. Sometimes I wasn't invited, or so a classmate told me, because some of the other kids wouldn't be allowed to come if I was there. Sometimes I wasn't invited because the kid's parents were out and out racists. As a kid, I really couldn't understand it. The only reason these kids were forbidden to interact with me was because the color of my skin. Something I had absolutely no control over.

Thankfully, there were some kids throughout my childhood who ignored their parents. We could play together at school but we couldn't see each other during non-school times. As I got older and their parents more tolerant I got to have friendships the whole year round. It was a relief to be able to go to the local mall and not be constantly on alert for someone who might tell on us. Or worse, be spotted by the racist parent themselves and believe me, there were some ugly incidents.

The reason I relate this is because I know what it feels like to wake up each morning knowing that I am a human being but also knowing that I will be treated differently because of who I am. I deserve to treated like a human being. I deserve the same rights that everyone else has. I pay taxes. I try to be a good citizen and neighbor. I deserve the same things that everyone else has. Sometimes I have to work and sacrifice for them. Well, I think the GLBT people have worked and sacrificed enough. You deserve the same rights and privileges that every other American citizen is accorded.

I applaud the decision and I celebrate with you.

[grizmaster]

41. well said

but on another subject

That foldong link caught my attention. Is one of the projects Alzheimers related?

[Mabus]

43. Yes

Among the folding simulations that people have/are/will work on include work for Alzheimer's Disease, Cancers, Huntington's Disease, Osteogenesis Imperfecta and Parkinson's Disease. There are other projects too.

From one of the Folding@Home FAQ pages:

WHICH DISEASES OR BIOMEDICAL PROBLEMS ARE YOU CURRENTLY STUDYING?

ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE (AD) is caused by the aggregation of relatively small (42 amino acid) proteins, called Abeta peptides. These proteins form aggregates which even in small clumps appear to be toxic to neurons and cause neuronal cell death involved in Alzheimer's Disease and the horrible neurodegenerative consequences.

We have many calculations being performed on AD. Our primary goals are the prediction of AD aggregate structure for rational drug design approaches as well as further insight into how AD aggregates form kinetically (hopefully paving the way for a method to stop the AD aggregate formation).

Information on other simulations being done at: http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-diseases.html#AD

If your computer is folding, you can find out what project it is working on by find the project's number in the log file and then looking it up online. For instance my computer is crunching away on a protein, (Project) p2414_Ribo_tryptophan280. I look it up on this Project Summary page and then click on the description where a summary of Project 2414 can be found. That page tells me that projects of the 2400 series are studying the chemical environment of the Ribosomal Tunnel

[Akoto]

42. This is my opinion, and I hope that it doesn't sound ignorant ...

If they're not willing to grant legal marriages to same-sex couples, then I believe they should strip all benefits from marriage regardless of the genders involved.

Only civil unions should grant any legal benefits. With it set up that way, they can't use "morals" or religion to justify withholding these basic but essential benefits from couples.

[a la izquierda]

44. I'm sorry but...

my mother, and the thousands of others whom this benefits are not political ploys and it disgusts me that people suggest that the NJSC should have waited. I say F U. My mother has waited long enough and despite the fact that she votes Republican, she deserves to have her relationship viewed as equal under the law. Someone in my office suggested they should have waited and I nearly jumped out of my skin. That's the most ridiculous bullshit I've heard. I'm proud that yet another state stood up in defense of its own damn rights and said screw you to the theocracy this country has become. It's about friggin' time!
End rant.

[donco6]

53. Read around on some of the other posts.

You'll see the same theme over and over again: "You gay folks just need to wait until an opportune time." It's getting me down, frankly. Well, down when I'm not just PISSED!

[WildEyedLiberal]

48. I don't understand why people would blame gays...

... for that fact that bigots hate them.

I blame the HOMOPHOBE BIGOT HATEMONGERS who give a shit what someone else does in their private life.

I am glad NJ decided in favor of equality, not bigotry.

[Zhade]

50. "Justice delayed is justice denied." -- MLK

Hey, if bigots and homophobes want to argue against his point, they should feel free - though they'll rightly be thought of as less than useless to our quest for equal rights.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

52. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[mnlhanes]

54. Bigots and Homophobes: Exhibit A

A friend emailed me an article about the gay agenda, gay propaganda that blew my mind: Gay Propaganda - Deception from Start to Finish.

The author is unbelievalble. So hard to imagine that someone could spend so much time and energy hating. And to accomplish what? This kind of outrageous, inexplicable passion is what we're up against. Check out the full list of what's he published: K.B. Napier's Articles

[ninkasi]

55. I guess I'm simple minded

To me, gays should have the same rights as hetero sexuals. No debate. Why should people have to wait until the time is judged "right", before they can live just like everybody else? If all of us, progressives, and Democrats, stand together and demand that what is right is what should be the law, then it will happen.

This idiotic notion of waiting until the climate is right just pisses me off. WE create the climate, all of us. If an overwhelming number of people insist on equal rights being just that, equal, then the climate has been changed. To expect people who are trying to simply live their lives as the rest of us do, marrying the person they love, starting a family, sharing economic benefits, it's not up to me, or you, or anybody else to deny them those rights.

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Remember those words? They are not qualified, by exempting women, or minorities, or gays. It's really hard to believe that now, with the technology to reach the moon and walk around, and with new technologies discovered constantly, we cling to a Neanderthal way of thinking regarded sexuality. Grow up, right-wingers, and join us in the 21st century.