Kos Attacks Harold Ford

[Ezekiel in Exile]

Markos Moulitsas attacked Harold Ford from the front page of dKos this evening because of Ford's statement about the New Jersey court decision on gay equality. Kos wrote:

Yeah, I want Ford to win. But I won't cry when he doesn't.

The thread makes interesting reading.

[lapfog_1]

1. Well, Kos DID work in a "pshaw" in there!

so I applaud him for that... but we NEED to win every competitive race, even when our candidate isn't in lockstep with the rest of us... and the alternative to not winning is just so much worse, even on this issue of same sex marriage and/or equal protection.

[FredScuttle]

52. "lockstep"?

we're talking about civil rights here, not the "Contract on America". The alternative for millions of Americans is candidates who support civil rights vs. those who don't.

[Melynn]

2. Ford is playing to win.

He knows the gay marriage issue won't play well in Tennessee.

I know a lot of people won't like what Ford is doing but that's politics. It gets messy sometimes.

The bottom line is do you want for Democrats to control the Senate or don't you. If you want Democrats to control the Senate, then you are going to have to put with some crap.

[FredScuttle]

53. gay marriage won't play well in Tennessee because there are vocal bigots in TN

so what do we do? appease them or stand up for civil rights?

[Jack_Dawson]

3. Oh PLEASE

Like gay marriage is going to play in TN. Baby steps people.
Just get the seat.

[FredScuttle]

54. one small step for appeasement

one giant leap for discrimination in our time.

[Jack_Dawson]

66. OK, vote for the Republican then!

:shrug:

[wyldwolf]

4. I guess KOS really isn't crashing the gate. He's sorta tapping on it

The only thing crashing is his fantasy of eliminating centrist Democrats.

[Clark2008]

5. Wonder if he'd cry if I kicked him in the balls for saddling me

with another rubber-stamping Republican as a "representative" senator?

:shrug:

[FredScuttle]

55. Yeah, that's it.....throw people's civil rights away for a Senate seat

Look, it's not our fault you're in a state that's dominated by vocal bigots. Apply Dr. Dean's sensible rhetoric ("All these years of Republican rule and what have you got out of it?") and that shall lead you out of the wilderness.

I'm fucking sick and tired of having to apologize for standing up for civil rights.

[Mass]

6. kos gets to get his head straight. We all knew where Ford stood on that.

Does he want to win the senate or not!

He wanted candidates that can win in TN and elsewhere. He attacked those who were not 100 % behind Casey, for example. He has to decide once and for all what he wants: somebody who can win whatever he stands for or somebody who agrees with his principles. He cannot have it both ways.

[elehhhhna]

22. I don't trust that Kos guy. Never did. Not sure why.

[bunkerbuster1]

30. Whereas I do whatever Kos tells me to do.

I'm that brainless Kossak Zombie Moonbat the Freepers warn you about.





(ok, actually I almost never even look at the dailyKos site, but I like screwing with people.)

[elehhhhna]

34. lol, bunkie

[Rockstone]

58. I never trusted him either

i know exactly what you're saying. the site never interested me much either.

[BootinUp]

7. The media can't report shit right

so he is just warding off an attack. Doesn't have any affect on the gay marriage situation. He hasn't changed his position.

[vi5]

8. I agree with Kos's main point on it...

Why does Ford have to comment on what was decided here in NJ? When people in NJ or NY or CA or Massachusetts comment on southern politics we're told to mind our own business because we don't understand the culture of those other states.

Well fine, then here's the return favor. If this guy is a leading light of the democratic party and people want me to believe that's how he's got to act to woo the voters in his state then let me just return the favor and tell him and anyone else outside the state of NJ who disagrees with this to go take a flying leap and keep his nose out of NJ's business. Clearly he doesn't understand our blue state values of progression, inclusion and tolerance.

[dogman]

11. Corker is running an ad that says Ford supports gay marriage.

Ford was deflecting the charge. It must be big in TN or the ad would not make the claim. Ford also denied he supports giving High School girls birth control pills. The RNC is smearing him and he is trying to withstand the big GOP money being used to attack him.

[Clark2008]

25. Not birth control pills...

The ad said Ford "supporting giving the abortion pill to high school students."

He never supported anything of that sort. It's a lie.

[StatBabe]

12. You are SO full of it!

One of the primary reasons that Kerry could get no traction in Southern states in 2004 was precisely because of gay marriage in Massachusetts. I am originally from the South, and most of my relatives still live there. After the 2004 election, I got an earful from my Democratic relatives about gay marriage in Massachusetts! In particular, I was told that it was all our fault in "liberal land" that we had gotten saddled with the chimp-in-charge again! These comments came from people who all voted for Kerry, but they live down there and know good and well the sentiments of the majority of people in their area.

Like interracial marriage, gay marriage will NEVER be accepted anywhere in the South (at least, not by the overwhelming majority of Southerners) until it is forced upon them by a court ruling. Even then, it will take years for a lot of Southerners to finally "accept" it. In the late 70's when I was in dental school, I still remember getting stares for simply walking with a black guy on campus in the South. And to be honest, there are still people that would take a second look today, although it is much less common. This, too, was a religious matter with a lot of Southerners so little has changed in that respect.

BTW, Southerners have been hearing how "backward", "illiterate", "ignorant", etc. that they are from people from the North for as long as I can remember so comments from elsewhere are generally interpreted through that prism. I do not disagree with some of that sentiment since I have lived outside the South for a number of years and have never held a lot of the narrow-minded views that I grew up around. However, I have a Southern accent, and I find it really insulting when some yahoo that I encounter when flying somewhere on business who immediately "assumes" that I am stupid merely because of my accent! As it happens, I am an academic so I have the last laugh with such bigotry. Ironically, I encountered someone on a trip a couple of months ago who heard my Southern accent and "assumed" that I was a country music fan with right wing political views. When he asked me if I liked country music, I said that I liked some of it and then asked if he liked the Dixie Chicks. He then started ranting that they should be in jail. Of course, I knew why he was saying this crap, but I asked very innocently why he would say that! The guy was suddenly unable to explain himself and turned red because he then realized that his Southern bigotry had been revealed! (BTW, I happen to prefer jazz and classical music, but I like yanking chains of people like that--also, I do happen to like the Dixie Chicks, along with some other country music, albeit in small doses.)

[vi5]

13. What am I full of it on and what are you suggesting we do?

Are you saying that states who agree with this decision and feel it is right should not do so or act on that because it may offend those in red states or prevent dems from winning there?

Again, as I've said repeatedly in threads I really don't care if Ford disagrees with gay marriage. I don't have to vote for him and I don't have to live in an area that feels the way that his constituents and the voters of TN have to. If they want to ban gay marriage and elect bigots then I can't stop them. If the majority of voters in a state want to elect people based on their level of intolerance then that is their right. I'm just asking that people who lecture me on sticking my blue state nose into the values and decisions of red state voters simply return the favor. This decision in NJ has nothing to do with Ford and nothing to do with TN.

[Clark2008]

29. And I don't have to live around a bunch of folks who think

I'm automatically backwards because I'm from the South.

That's bigoted, too, you know.

(BTW, my husband is a Masschusetts liberal - and he loves us Southerners)

[vi5]

37. I take individual people on their merits....

If the majority of voters in a state (any state) come to a concensus on an issue or a person, I fail to see why it's bashing to point out that a majority of voters in that particular state feel a particular way. If a majority of voters in TN or wherever think that gay people shouldn't have equal rights then why is it wrong to point that out? If a majority of people in a state elect someone with particular views to represent them, why is it "bashing" to point that out.

I never say "All southerners.." or "all" of anything. But if a majority of people in a state or area feel more motivated to get out and vote for a person or issue, I'm not sure why people are sensitive about that being pointed out.

[FredScuttle]

56. A-fucking-men

n/t

[Bluebear]

17. Well, hush my mouth!

If the red states don't want the blue states to stick their nose in their business and tell them who to and who not to accept, you would think they could respond in kind. Who cares what Ford thinks about what NJ does?

[Clark2008]

28. He was ASKED about it - he didn't just automatically

interject his opinion into the mix. He was ASKED about it because it's on our ballot here in TENNESSEE. So, yes, there is a valid reason for his quote on the matter.

That's the difference.

[Clark2008]

26. And let me add that it's the mid-West who harbors more

of those beliefs than Southerners do anymore.

The mid-West has become the bastion of white-supremacy milita groups and the like because Southerners basically got tired of 'em.

I'm not saying all people or all areas in the mid-West are backward or racist - but there are definitely more pockets of it there than down here.

[FredScuttle]

57. We're talking about Tennessee

According to polls, a majority of TN residents oppose gay marriage. It's a fair question to ask why Harold Ford is appeasing those bigoted citizens instead of trying to show them the light.

[madfloridian]

40. How Ford votes affects everyone...women, gays. everyone.

Kos is actually right about this. Ford has made it his business to insult Dean on Imus, tell him not to come to TN, he was insulting to the gay community on Larry King last night.

Ford once said on Imus that he was better on religion than Dean was, and he inferred that those of us who thought otherwise were not as Christian as he was.

I was not going to say anything about him, but he should have kept his mouth shut about the NJ ruling.

[w4rma]

9. I would guess that gay marriage would be extremely unpopular in TN. (nt)

[NashVegas]

15. Considering There's an Amendment on the Ballot Here, Yeah

There's a heavy activist campaign against the amendment (marriage = one man + one woman). I'm hopeful but doubtful.

[FredScuttle]

31. Gay marriage is probably pretty unpopular in TN

as was interracial marriage 40 years ago and civil rights for minorities before that. :eyes:

But hey! Why disturb those delicate Southern sensibilities?

[Clark2008]

32. But hey! Why allow anti-Southern bigotry to go unanswered?

Your comment about all of the South was JUST as bigoted as you think most Southerners are against gays.

Don't you understand that?

YOU are making a blanket statement about an entire group of people based on a perceived notion: just like you are claiming Southern people do regarding gay marriage.

Bigoted statement, that.

[kiahzero]

41. Is the anti-marriage amendment polling ahead?

If it is, it's fair enough to say that the majority of people in Tennessee are sexist bigots, because that's the only reason to be against same-sex marriage. Similarly, it's fair to say that roughly half of Virginians are sexist bigots, because they're planning on voting for the egregious stupidity that is our anti-marriage amendment.

I should note that this is coming from someone who's lived in Virginia for most of his life.

[FredScuttle]

42. Thanks for putting words in my mouth

but I can speak for myself....my comment about "Southern sensibilities" is in reference to our party's continued compromising of its principles to appease a vocal section of bigots in the South who masquerade as moderates, but oppose civil rights for gay Americans. I would say the same if we were discussing a race in the North with a Dem candidate who bent over backward to espouse this garbage, but we happen to be discussing Harold Ford and Tennessee.

My original point was that we're discussing fundamental civil rights here, not a wedge issue to be shaded due to political strategy. I understand Ford has to win in a conservative state, but he'll get no admiration from me by throwing the Constitution in the toilet to do so.

[bowens43]

10. Will this dumb ass cry

if Ford loses and because of it the repugs retain control of the Senate? Some people are either to narrow sighted or just too stupid to see the big picture. Some people need to learn when to keep their mouths shut, especially when they have a large and easily manipulated audience.

[LSK]

43. no kidding

[JI7]

59. the fucker most likely wants Ford to lose and Republicans to keep control

of the Senate.

[Hippo_Tron]

63. Actually, Kos is probably playing into Ford's strategy

A good bashing by a liberal blogger will probably win him some votes in Tennessee.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. How's the purge going, Markos? n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. People Like Him Have Zero Knowledge Of Practical Politics

There's not a player in the game who didn't see this Lieberman debacle coming...

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

20. I actually had someone use the phrase...

"Nobody could have predicted that Lieberman would run as an independent" the other day. I had to admire the cribbing from Bush/Rice-speak. :)

[gratuitous]

18. Doesn't this post more properly belong at Daily Kos?

I don't agree 100% with every liberal or progressive blogger, but if I have a problem with something one of them wrote, I take the radical step of writing a post . . . to the blogger. Radical thinking, I know.

[Hamlette]

19. I'm with Kos

yeah, I want him to win but I'm more than a little disappointed that those wonderful Christian churches that fought prejudice against blacks a few short years ago have taken up arms against gays.

[Stuckinthebush]

21. Amen

It is amazing how people can compartmentalize like that. Civil rights for all unless we are uncomfortable with who they are.

It is sad to see any disenfranchised group work against the welfare of another disenfranchised group.

[Orsino]

23. Ford's a whore.

His answer to gays is the same given to blacks a half-century ago: "Never mind what it sounds like I'm saying; it's not hate speech if I'm only saying it to win elections. Now shut up and wait to be recognized as citizens."

And we're supposed to be good little sheep and vote for trash like this. I'm disgusted.

[warrens]

24. Check out his opponent

Shudder.

[Scout1071]

27. Kos and Daily Kos have done more to change the game, then

anyone else.

How much money has DU raised this quarter for Dems?

Ford sucks. I want him to win as a Dem, but I don't necessarily respect him or his DLC allegiances. And I was more than unimpressed with the way he conducted himself last week.

[KingFlorez]

33. I'm sick of these idiots

Tell me, Kos? Do you really want Democrats to win or perhaps you secretly want the Republicans to win?

[Scout1071]

35. Give me a break.

What has DU done? Daily Kos has raised tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars and raised the profile of countless Dems running for office. They've helped to make races across the country more competitive.

[WI_DEM]

38. I don't think we should be fighting DU vs. KOS, I like them both

but your point is good, Kos has done a great deal to raise money and put the spotlight on many candidates including Tester in MT and Lamont in CT.

[WI_DEM]

36. first of all, Ford didn't even get it right! the decision had nothing

to do with gay marriage.

This is a decision about civil rights and Ford should appreciate that, but he's playing to what he thinks is his states prejudices. In the meanwhile his GOP opponent is trying to play on fears of racists and now Ford is trying to play on fears of homosexuals. Seems like they both are pretty shameless to me.

I hope he wins, but he will probably turn into one of the biggest dinos.

[mdmc]

39. just politics

Ford, kos, us... it is just politics.

[PBass]

44. Ford is outflanking the Wingnuts, and it's way over the top...

Ford says he wants a Constitutional ammenment BANNING gay marriage.

This jackass wants to tamper with the Constitution, like it's a political football. That flat-out sucks.

Think about all the issues that require a constitutional ammendment... banning gay marriage isn't on the list, even for true conservatives (wingnuts yes, conservatives no).

So I won't cry if Ford loses either. I support progressive politicians. Ford lost my support.

[mdmc]

48. i really dont know much about him myself

but i can't vote for him anyway... hope he beats the gop though:kick:

[Selatius]

45. He explicitly says HE WANTS FORD TO WIN.

He's criticizing him, but he certainly isn't telling people not to vote for Ford.

[WildEyedLiberal]

46. Kos also attacked people who had a problem with Casey

The problem with Kos is that he HAS no consistent principles. Apparently, according to the frame he's set up for himself, it's not okay to criticize Casey in PA for being pro-life - all the women who are bothered by that should shut up and help elect a Senate majority. But now according to Kos it IS okay to criticize Ford for being anti-gay marriage? How does this hypocritical asshole keep his story straight? It's either a) important to vote for the D to get a Dem majority or b) more important to "vote your principles." As if Kos has anything resembling constant principles.

The left wing blogosphere will be MUCH better off when it stops regarding Kos as some kind of tin god prophet. All Kos has ever wanted to do was replace the beltway consultants he's made his living attacking - I mean, the fucker's even a member of the New Democratic Network (aka DLC)! That's typical Kos for you, though - attack the DLC while belonging to an offshoot of it. Say you're tired of DLC candidates but endorse Mark Warner. If people can't see what an amazingly unprincipled hypocrite Kos is by now, they're just being willfully blind.

[BootinUp]

50. To be honest

I never paid much attention to him. The only times I really have is when he puts his foot in his mouth. I don't think I have been missing much either.

[WildEyedLiberal]

51. You definitely haven't missed anything n/t

[keepCAblue]

47. I'm with KOS

While I'd rather Ford win over his rethug opponent, it's a case of a choice between the lesser of two evils. Being gay, I can't fully support or respect anyone who openly discriminates against another class of people and would deny them their right to equality. It's especially disconcerting coming from one who, like Ford, is himself a member of a minority class--a class which has its own history of disenfranchisement. Ford's, and others like him, promotion of creating a class-based double standard wreaks of hypocrisy.

[Hippo_Tron]

64. See my post #62, a democratic majority will advance gay rights

Keeping the GOP in control of the Senate will possibly set them back. It's not about Ford, it's about the people that Ford will vote to put in power. Ford will just be a backbencher freshman Senator.

[keepCAblue]

49. Ann Coulter: "Ford is my favorite Democrat..."

Makes ya kinda wonder about Ford...is he just a younger version of Lieberman?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2487780

[SeveneightyWhoa]

65. Larry Kudlow has said the same thing.

But guess what, that doesn't matter.

He's still a Democrat.

And Larry Kudlow and Ann Coulter, for that reason alone, would rather he didn't exist.

[Rowdyboy]

60. On his WORST day Ford is hands above Corker........

Kos has a right to his opinions, just as I have a right to mine. Harold Ford is the next US senator from Tennessee.

[Hippo_Tron]

61. Sounds good, an attack by Kos will probably help Ford's strategy

If anybody can see where I'm going with this...

[Hippo_Tron]

62. If we don't win the Senate, Bush has a much better chance of a SCOTUS appointment

Another Alito will surely set gay rights back about 20 years or so. Don't think of it as voting for Ford, think of it as voting for Leahy and Kennedy to control the judiciary committee, two senators who do support gay rights.

[ecstatic]

67. Ford is not the only anti-gay marriage Dem. Is Kos racist?

I'm sure that random accusation is just as outlandish as what Kos posted on his blog. Why pick on Ford, when so many other Dems have vocalized the same stance on gay marriage?