'Suicide Seeds' Could Spell Death of Peasant Agriculture, UN Meeting Told

[G_j]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0126-07.htm

Published on Thursday, January 26, 2006 by OneWorld.net

'Suicide Seeds' Could Spell Death of Peasant Agriculture, UN Meeting Told
by Haider Rizvi

UNITED NATIONS - Groups fighting for the rights of peasant communities are stepping up pressure on governments to ban the use of genetically modified ''suicide seeds'' at UN-sponsored talks on biodiversity in Spain this week.

''This technology is an assault on the traditional knowledge, innovation, and practices of local and indigenous communities,'' said Debra Harry, executive director of the U.S.-based Indigenous Peoples Council on Biocolonialism.

The group is among organizations urging United Nations experts to recommend that governments adopt tough laws against field testing and selling Terminator technology, which refers to plants that have had their genes altered so that they render sterile seeds at harvest. Because of this trait, some activists call Terminator products ''suicide seeds.''

Developed by multinational agribusinesses and the U.S. government, Terminator has the effect of preventing farmers from saving or replanting seeds from one growing season to the next.
..more..

[Odin2005]

1. Here comes the GMO bashers...

:popcorn:

[400Years]

2. I guess you want people to starve unless they pay monsanto

[Odin2005]

11. No. I get sick of people bashing genetic engineering...

...when it is the corporporations that are abusing the technology that is problem, not the technology itself. I am a Biotechnology major and I know how this stuff works, it holds much potential is USED RIGHT. Blame the corporations, not the technology.

[G_j]

13. well hopefully

that discussion doesn't eclipse this one.
The subject here is clearly "terminator" seeds, and the corporations who produce them (as you say).

[Odin2005]

22. It's a catch-22, unfortunately

If you have sterillity genes people will complain about screwing over poor farmers. If you don't put in the sterillity genes people will complain about contaminating wild populations. I think the best solution is to nationalize the biotech industry and ban the patenting of genes and GMOs so there is no self-intrest in preventing people from saving GM seed. Growing both GM and non-GM crops should also be encouraged.

[KT2000]

15. Sorry but

I would feel better if you were advocating for more health studies of this technology because there are few at this time. The few that have been done have found serious health problems.

I blame corporations but I also blame scientists who wear blinders to anything outside their particular interest but continue to advocate broadly for this technology. At some point, scientists and corporations become one in the same.

[NickB79]

26. Farmers already have to pay Monsanto for hybrid seeds

Very few farmers in the US reuse their seeds anymore, since hybrid seeds give such a large boost in yields. Reusing seed saves a little money in the spring, but costs you much more at harvest. A typical farmer would go out of business if he didn't pay Monsanto, or Cargill, or any other large seed/biotech business in the US.

Similarly, here in the US Terminator seeds would have very little effect on the way farmers operate. Selling them to unsuspecting farmers in less developed nations that depend on reusing seed every year would be a disaster, however.

[baby_mouse]

3. GM is a disgusting, stupid idea. (Sorry, am I late?)

Suicide seeds should be made ILLEGAL. It's no different WHATSOEVER from purposefully addicting someone to heroin so you can sell them the stuff at surival prices FOREVER.

NO SUICIDE SEEDS.

[Silverhair]

44. Illegal by what controlling authority?

Remember, we are speaking globally here.

[baby_mouse]

45. Every government on the bloody planet. nt.

Remember, I'm saying "should".

It's not even slightly likely...

[Silverhair]

46. My insulin comes from a GM yeast. Without it, I die.

Do you want me to die for the sake of your ideology on GM?

[soothsayer]

4. GM foods suck, and so does monsatan!

[Angry Girl]

7. What do YOU think of "suicide seeds" and GM food

as you watch us and munch your GM popcorn! :-)

[G_j]

10. GM popcorn LOL

and actually most(or all) corn is GM at this point.

[Angry Girl]

14. Yup

And still hundreds of millions go hungry. Go figure.

[Retrograde]

34. corn's been GM'd for centuries

as have tomatoes, peppers, wheat, apples, brassicas and others: compare teosinte (believed to be the wild ancestor of maize, or close to it) and a modern ear of corn - it's difficult to see how the one came from the other. Thing is, these plants were GM'd the old fashioned way, by trial and error and selection over generations of plants.

I grow both F1 hybrids and open=pollinated plants in my (admittedly tiny) garden. They each have advantages, as well as disadvantages. However, I have little sympathy for - or trust in - Monsanto. If they want to protect their investments, that's fine with me. What I do have problems with is their trying to be a monopoly and giving farmers no options.

[meganmonkey]

16. As opposed to the people who don't care about

the sanctity of the world food supply?

[Occulus]

5. Oh, those need to be banned

and banned YESTERDAY.

SUCH a myopic practice, I can't even begin to go into the sheer number of reasons this is a Bad Thing.

Imagine if ALL seeds used in farming were like this. Now imagine the company that makes them out of business and farmers unable to get their hands on viable seed. Or, imagine that company getting pissed off at a government and withholding those suicide seeds, while doing all it can to prevent that government from obtaining/using normal seeds.

THIS HAS TO STOP.

[BrendaStarr]

8. Yeah, genes are easily passed to other farmer's plants

The greed of some people! I can hardly believe that type of GM would even be considered.

http://brst.livejournal.com/

[BlueEyedSon]

6. Yeah, and those genes never jump to other crops.

Be funny if all the native plants in an area became suicidal.

[NickB79]

20. When a corn plant pollinates an oak tree, let me know

The only native plants that could be affected would be those that are closely related to the GM crop, since we are talking about cross-pollination. All the native plants in the area wouldn't become suicidal.

Planting Terminator corn in Mexico, where there are wild species of ancestral corn, would probably be a bad idea. Planting that same corn in the Midwestern US, where there are few if any closely related species, would probably not cause any issues with the native flora.

[Armstead]

21. Seeds travel

Plant suicide corn in the midwest and there are no guarantees they wil not spread to Mexico via humans, cargo, birds, winds or whatever.

Why fuck up the ecosystem when it is not necessary?

[NickB79]

29. And when they get there?

Lets say 100 corn seeds made it to Mexico. They grow, produce pollen, and crossbreed with native ancestral corn species. Corn pollen in general travels less than 100 yards, and there's no guarantee it will reach even a large fraction of the native corn in that area. So the 100 Terminator plants pollinate, say, 1000 native corn species. Then what? They produce sterile seeds, and the gene dies out. The remaining thousands of native corn species in the area that were pollinated by other native corn plants will release fertile seeds, and the species will continue. Whatever damage a few stray Terminator corn seeds could do to the Mexican ecosystem is a drop in the bucket, precisely because they are Terminator seeds and cannot continue on over generations.

[BlueEyedSon]

24. Genes Jump Species. I'm no geneticist/mol bio guy but use Google and see.

Thought you knew everything, huh?
The world is not quite like what they taught in High School!

[NickB79]

28. LOL, you're right, I'm no geneticist

I have a degree in biotechnology and chemistry.

Yes, genes do jump species. This usually occurs when plant viruses pick up the genes, or parts of a gene, in a plasmid and transmits it to another plant when infection occurs. However, the rate of gene transfer is quite low. Out of thousands of plants infected, you may have one that picks up even part of the gene from the plasmid, and the odds of a plant picking up a complete Terminator gene are far lower than that. The plant must also be infected in a region where it can transmit the gene to it's offspring. If the infection doesn't reach the plant's reproductive organs, no gene will be transmitted to future offspring. Furthermore, even if the plant can transmit the complete Terminator gene to it's offspring, they are all sterile. The chain is broken, and the gene dies out within one generation. Natural selection hard at work.

That was one of the points of the Terminator gene, to prevent gene transfer from GM crops to wild plants. With the worries of hybrid herbicide-resistant plants developing from cross-breeding in the wild, Monsanto engineered this self-destruct into the plants.

[LiberalEsto]

9. Monsanto's doing

They push suicide seeds big-time

[Lone_Wolf]

12. Genetic pollution

While I think biotechnology holds great promise, corporations, and their anything-to-make-a-buck approach to biotechnology is a threat to the world.

[elehhhhna]

17. What is the benefit of Suicide seeds? Other than to hold farmers captive?

[Silverhair]

27. Greater yields, disease & insect resistance, drought tolerance...

...and stuff like that. Not all of that stuff in the same seed, but whatever the GMO company thinks will be of benefit. But the problem is that after the company has spend all of the money needed to create a super seed that is of real benefit, once they release the seed, if it is fertile, they have given away all their work. So to recover their investment, they put make the seeds non-reproductive.

Think of it a publisher who doesn't want his copyrighted book being mass photo-copied, so he creates a special combination of paper and font that can't be photocopied.

Is isn't that they hate the farmers, it is that they want to recover their investment.

The farmer can choose to not use the seeds and continue his traditional methods. But with traditional seeds, he gets lower yields and more work.

The idea, when it works right, is that the farmer gets greater yield, has more money, so he can afford to buy next year's seed and still have extra money left over. When it works right, it is a win-win situation. When it doesn't work right it creates hardship.

As long as the local farmer has a CHOICE to use the seeds are not, it is a good thing. If the local farmer has no choice, then it becomes a bad thing.

[G_j]

32. number one benefit= $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for Monsanto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And monopoly of course.
Do you actually expect anyone to believe they operate for the benefit of humanity?

:rofl:

[Silverhair]

35. Of course they are NOT a non-profit, but that does not make them evil.

Look at the products you buy in your life. They were made by companies. They benefit you, or you would not buy them. Did the companies make them because they love you? Of course not. They did it for profit.

For that matter, I assume you work at a job. Would you continue to work there if you weren't paid? You work for money. If you have planned well, and are a little lucky, you are also in a job that you enjoy, but that is a side benefit.

[G_j]

37. Monsanto isn't just ANY company

they are one of the worst!
do some research on them

[Silverhair]

38. They still have to operate within market forces. They can't escape that.

Remember that I said the system only works if the farmer has a CHOICE. If the farmer has no choice, then the system turn bad. Please remember that I said that. OK ??

Now let's talk about Monsanto, with out me looking them up. I don't have the time to research all of the who knows how many corporations that there are. But if a corporation is to stay it business, PEOPLE HAVE TO WILLING BUY THE PRODUCT. (Again, this is if people have a choice. That is ALWAYS part of the equation.) The product has to do something for the CUSTOMER that the customer likes. The product has to please the customer. If the product does not make the customer happy, then the customer will quit buying it. If many customers are made unhappy, then the corporation is injured. So a corporation has to please the customers, or die.

It does not matter whether the people in the corporation or kind hearted, or if they are mean and selfish, they all know that unhappy customers means death for any corporation. Unhappy customers don't buy stuff they are unhappy with.

So they have to be offering the farmer something for his money, or the farmer would not use the T seed.

AGAIN, THIS ONLY WORKS IF THE FARMER HAS A CHOICE.

[G_j]

40. they have sued people whose crops were contaminated by

neighboring farms using Monsanto seeds.
They have a shameful record of such practices against farmers.
I am too busy making calls and writing letters over the Alito nomination right now to really search for links etc. I would love to continue this another time. I do appreciate your taking time to respond though!

peace G_j

[Silverhair]

43. That is a different topic.

I was speaking only of whether or not the plants with the T-gene had a beneficial aspect, and why. Market forces dictate that there has to be a reason why a farmer with a choice in the matter would want to use a seed that he couldn't save, but would have to rebuy again next year. A farmer with a choice would not buy a seed that doesn't help him in some significant way.

I have heard of them suing that farmer, but I don't know enough about the particulars to comment intelligently.

[DrunkenMaster]

33. the problem with your statement

is that it has already been verified that GM crops can and will "infect" neighboring non-GM plots no matter the protections put in place. Once that T-gene finds its way into the "general population", its all Monsanto, suckers.

[Silverhair]

36. No, because the T-gene, by definition, is self limiting.

After sterility, it can't go any further. That is what sterility means. A terminator gene that is fertile isn't much of a terminator gene, is it?

[DrunkenMaster]

39. that isn't what I have read

here is some info that falls in line with what I have read in the past:

http://www.victoryseeds.com/news/terminator_gene.html

It is likely that Terminator will kill the seeds of neighboring plants of the same species, under certain conditions. However, the effects will be confined to the first generation, and will not be able to spread to other generations. The scenario might go like this: when farmers plant the Terminator seeds, the seeds already will have been treated with tetracycline, and thus the recombinase will have acted, and the toxin coding sequence will be next to the seed-specific promoter, and will be ready to act when the end of seed development comes around. The seeds will grow into plants, and make pollen. Every pollen grain will carry a ready-to-act toxin gene. If the Terminator crop is next to a field planted in a normal variety, and pollen is taken by insects or the wind to that field, any eggs fertilized by the Terminator pollen will now have one toxin gene. It will be activated late in that seed's development, and the seed will die. However, it is unlikely that the person growing the normal variety will be able to tell, because the seed will probably look normal. Only when that seed is planted, and doesn't germinate, will the change become apparent.

In most cases, the toxin gene will not be passed on any further, because dead plants don't reproduce. However, under certain conditions I will discuss later, it is possible for the toxin gene to be inherited....

Of course, self-fertilized seeds of the Terminator line would also survive in the second generation, if the tetracycline treatment failed, and could be carried off by birds, or grow as 'volunteers' the next season.

Another possibility is that even successfully activated Terminator genes may fail to make toxin because of a phenomenon called gene silencing. In experiments with other GMOs, it was discovered - quite unexpectedly - that in some cases, previously active (introduced) genes can suddenly stop working. If this phenomenon occurred with seeds containing the Terminator gene, plants containing the silenced toxin gene could grow and reproduce, perhaps for several generations. Thus, Terminator and other engineered genes could be carried into the future, to be expressed -- perhaps still unexpectedly -- at some later time.

Depending on Terminator to prevent GMOs or their traits from spreading unintentionally is unrealistic. 'Escapes' are even more likely to occur in some of the other patent applications, where the genetic components of Terminator will reshuffle during sexual reproduction, and a portion of the seeds will lack the toxin altogether, and thus be viable.

ORGANISMS ARE ALWAYS CHANGING; WILL TERMINATOR MUTATE AND CHANGE CHARACTERISTICS IS SOME DANGEROUS WAY?

If plants were to carry silenced toxin genes, as described above, those genes might suddenly be activated again, causing seeds to die unpredictably in subsequent generations. By the time the phenomenon occurred, however, it might be difficult to ascribe the cause to Terminator.

Another possibility is that the Terminator may be activated at a different time or place in the plant. Fortunately, such events will be self-limiting, because the plants will die. However, for farmers, the instability and unpredictability of GMOs has already been an economic problem. Genes have an ecology--a complex way of interacting with themselves and the environment--that can interfere with the simple linear logic of genetic engineering. A recent article in the Ecologist discussed this problem in detail (Ho et al. 1998).

[DrunkenMaster]

41. a little more

Geneticist Joseph Cummins has commented:
"…Pollen escaping from the terminator crop is sterile and cannot spread to weeds or other crops. Pollen escaping from the tetracycline treated seed producing crop can spread the terminator blocking genes. When a weed is fertilized, for example, with the terminator pollen, the new generation of seeds will bear plants with fertile pollen. In the next generation, 25% of the terminator plants will produce sterile pollen. Since the sterile pollen cannot spread the terminator genes, the spread of terminator genes by normal sexual means is limited, but the terminator genes will always be in the population. The situation is similar to lethal genetic diseases in humans. Terminator doesn't threaten plant populations if it is spread only by normal sexual processes. However, spread of terminator by other means is more intimidating…. Spreading terminator genes by virus could easily cause a wide array of weeds and crops to be rendered sterile, and genetic recombination could easily eliminate the reversing action of tetracycline. The terminator virus could have a have a profound influence on crop production…. are potentially able to create chromosome mutations leading to genetic erosion and untoward changes in gene regulation and expression. They are very highly mobile, and, once introduced into higher plants and animals, are likely to spread and not want to leave ever!
("Genetics of Terminator," E-mail from Prof. Cummins, Wednesday, June 17, 1998.)

[Silverhair]

42. To discuss the T-gene further, I would have to know more from a neutral...

...source. I don't trust sources with an agenda, either pro or con.

[Wind Dancer]

18. Monsanto is a disgusting company.

I recommend watching "The Corporation".

THE CORPORATION - DETAILED SYNOPSIS
In THE CORPORATION, case studies, anecdotes and true confessions reveal behind-the-scenes tensions and influences in several corporate and anti-corporate dramas. Each illuminates an aspect of the corporation's complex character.

Among the 40 interview subjects are CEOs and top-level executives from a range of industries: oil, pharmaceutical, computer, tire, manufacturing, public relations, branding, advertising and undercover marketing; in addition, a Nobel-prize winning economist, the first management guru, a corporate spy, and a range of academics, critics, historians and thinkers are interviewed.

http://www.thecorporation.com/index.php?page_id=2

Monsanto develop seeds that last only one year leaving the poorest of people unable to farm and produce. This is all done for profit causing enormous harm to the counties forced to buy these products. Iraq is now forbidden to use their own seeds, 97% of their crops must be GM thanks to the U.S.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

19. What kind of fucked up twisted deranged mind comes...oh never mind. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Aw, c'mon. The makers of Agent Orange are humanitarians.

[FlaGranny]

25. Somewhere in the US

is an organization dedicated to saving and propagating heirloom seeds. Don't ask me who they are. ;-) I can't remember. We should be very, very thankful that they are. These seeds have been proven producers through generations. Just imagine what would happen if there were a major climate disaster and there were no seeds available other than "suicide seeds." End of the food supply. Bye, bye.

[DrunkenMaster]

30. The Terminator gene is just another step

in the commodification of Life. Patents of gene sequences? Check. Patents on living beings? Next up.

Go ahead, tell me again how unchecked capitalism is so groovy.

[Silverhair]

31. And the problem with banning it is there is no global legal authority.

Ban it in country A, and the global multinational simply moves that operation to country B. If need be the they can set up a the now company to appear to be an independent operation. And they continue with barely a hitch.