Lindsey Graham: “We don’t need a Democratic army and a Republican army.”

[sabra]

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2311336.php

<snip>

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., a former Air Force Reserve judge has raised concerns about the war in Iraq, but said vocal complaints by active-duty members represent a “disturbing trend” that threatens to erode the cohesiveness of the military.

“We’ve had a long tradition making sure the military doesn’t engage in political debate,” Graham said. “We don’t need a Democratic army and a Republican army.”

[originalpckelly]

1. I think Senator Graham is completely correct on this one...

the military becoming involved in Roman politics lead to that nation's demise. It shall surely do the same for us.

[fjc]

10. That may be true, but

the monumental incompetence of this administration is forcing the hand of real patriots.

[originalpckelly]

17. They are not real patriots, because they are being short sighted...

they are possibly taking actions which will literally destroy our country. That is in no way, shape or form patriotic.

Just because they are saying what I want to hear, does not mean I will sacrifice my country to hear it.

[BootinUp]

25. Sorry I disagree.

As far as I know they have not refused to carry out their duty. They are allowed to communicate with their representative in the legislature to inform them of severe problems that have not been addressed by their superiors after all this time. The situation continues to deteriorate, the moral is down, the Generals are failing to deal with the problem and have become lapdogs for a failed policy.

[originalpckelly]

33. They are not simply communicating with their legislators...

they are communicating with the American people. You and I are now talking about this, aren't we? You really don't have to believe on bit at all, just go pull out a book about Roman history, and you'll find out I'm right. This is very serious business.

[Critters2]

37. i have a degree in European history

I've read every important book on the subject, and I disagree with you. The corruption of the Emperors brought down the Roman empire...that and deploying troops too far from the capital to defend it when defense was needed.

[fjc]

41. Get a clue.

Our country is already being sacraficed. I fail to see the harm in pointing that out, whether you're in the military or not.

[drm604]

13. So we should just keep the Republican Army we've had in the past?

I understand what you're saying, but it's not like the Army hasn't had a political lean in the past. Maybe it's simply moving to the left along with the rest of the country.

[originalpckelly]

20. No, it should never be political...

end of conversation. Any of them who are Republicans and openly voice political opinions while on duty, are not doing anything good for America, they really are destroying the civilian nature of our government.

If you do not understand the seriousness of this, I encourage you to read about the increased role of the military in Roman politics near the end of the Roman Republic. It will be very informative and will explain why I am so adamant about this.

[Critters2]

36. The military has been political for years.

The only difference is that these are Dems. They have a right to speak their minds, as Rethugs in the military have also been doing!

[Catherine Vincent]

2. “We’ve had a long tradition making sure the military doesn’t engage in political debate"

Oh really? Then why is Rush Lardass allowed on the armed forces radio?

[wake.up.america]

6. It goes both ways. I agree! Keep el Rushmo off the air or allow AAR on AFN

[Vidar]

16. Not to mention liberal boards & blogs being blocked by the pentagon.

There's a recent thread on this but I am starless, therefore searchless.

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. Exactly. This administration, like previous Repug

administrations, has been deliberately politicizing the military for years. By its very nature the military has always had a rightward slant -- after all, anyone who has ever been in knows that while it's mission may be to defend democracy, it is not a democracy itself. But every soldier, every sailor, every airman and every Marine takes an oath to defend the constitution of the united states, foreign and domestic. So when they speak up against this administration, they are speaking to uphold their oaths -- the oaths that the extreme right core of the officer corp violate every day in the conduct of an illegal war.

These 'malcontents' are not engaging in political debate - they are saying that they are being told to violate their sacred oath to defend the constitution. On a simpler, more basic level, to avoid war crimes prosecution you don't follow the illegal order in the first place -- "I was just following orders" is not a defense, as we know from Nurenburg.

[Uncle Joe]

44. I agree with your post,

They are indeed upholding their oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Although he is their commander in chief, they do not swear an oath to defend him regardless of his actions.

Bush has decided to place him self above the law, the congress has rolled over and allowed him to do so, had they done their job instead of being a mindless rubber stamp, these gentlemen would not have to.

Kicked and recommended

[TahitiNut]

40. That's why they're Dear Leader's favorite political stage props.

My response to Lindsay: "Tell it to your own party, you duplicitous jackass!" "Just who the fuck ever said the soldiers speaking up are Democrats. you fucking moron?"

[NCarolinawoman]

42. This happened under Clinton, and I still don't understand it. n/t

[bluestateguy]

3. Remember Michael New?

He was the kid who disobeyed orders during the Bosnia mission in 1995. He refused to wear a UN patch on his uniform (at all times American troops were ultimately under US command). He was court martialed for flagrantly disobeying orders, but conservatives called him a great patriot and a hero.

[bumblebee1]

28. I wonder just one thing.

How many conservatives stepped up to offer Michael New a job when he was released from the stockade? (Stockade is the Army term for prison.)

[sarge43]

34. Remember it well

Also the Marine major who showboated about being unable to follow the orders of a CinC who got a bj. Another conservative 'hero'.

[Supersedeas]

47. obviously, a soldier of the Republican army--as long as you are Republican

disobeying an order is fine.

[Avalux]

4. So he's assuming the "complainers" are all Democrats?

How the hell else are they supposed to speak out to keep their fellow soldiers from being killed for no fucking reason?? The military law these active duty folks are operating under was made for a reason - that reason is here.

[bullimiami]

5. maybe he should direct his comments to his own party which has done

all they could to make the military a tool of the republicans especially in the last 6 years.

[ashling]

12. Spot on!

(as the Brits and Aussies say)

[supernova]

7. The military is speaking out because

they know the * WH won't listen to, understand, nor respond to their advice. If they had in the first place, military personnel in opposition wouldn't feel the need to engage in the political process. And I don't blame these brave souls one bit.

:applause:

[SaveElmer]

8. Right so the men who are being asked to die...and the men

Who have to send them there...in other words the ones most affected by Bush's disastrous conduct of this war, are just supposed to sit down and shut up?

That is the same argument Limbaugh uses against Parkinson sufferers when he says they are being used by the Democratic Party...

Poppycock!

[cautiouslywaiting]

9. He's only disturbed

when the military disagrees with him.

[Jackpine Radical]

11. Hey, waittaminnit, maybe we SHOULD have a Democratic Army.

Think about it. Somebody to enforce the will of the soon-to-be Demcratic majority in Congress, a force to counter any attempts by the lame-duck Administration to declare martial law, a force to secure the voting places with...the uses for our own military could be endless.

[Solly Mack]

14. We don't need a corrupt Congress rubber-stamping a corrupt President's

illegal wars either - as well as rubber-stamping assorted other war crimes and violations of the Constitution.

but that's what we got and that's what y'all did to the troops. Who can blame them speaking out against that? Who can blame anyone speaking out against that?

[Norquist Nemesis]

15. Perhaps Mr. Graham should think about what is causing this

"disturbing trend" instead of dismissing it out of hand! What is it that has brought this on? Or maybe who (as in which Party) has divided and pushed to such an extent that soldiers feel compelled to voice their objections?

Hmmm??? Chew on that for a while, Senator Graham, and you'll get your answer.

[Bonhomme Richard]

18. Maybe we will need a Democratic Army.

Someone to fight for our constitution.

[gratuitous]

19. It will only erode the cohesiveness of the military

If the military predominantly feels it's being treated honestly and fairly and is actually being used to defend the country. If the military is being used as a political piece to bolster the sagging fortunes of the party currently clinging to power, then true heroism, true patriotism, true love for the country demands that they speak out against such misuse.

Doesn't it, Mr. Graham? Or have you been a Republican so long that you've forgotten the oaths you swore as a military officer and as an elected official? Why does the elephant fly above the eagle?

[Postman]

21. What was Shinseki? What are the talking Generals on TV that helped sell the war?

Screw you Lindsey Graham.

[mmonk]

22. No one is required to adhere to illegal orders.

They can complain about the situation on those terms without being republican or democrat.

[BootinUp]

29. Have they refused orders though?

I didn't think they had.

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. Many are speaking with their feet.

Desertion is a huge, unspoken problem. There are thousands who don't report for duty when they are notified they are going back for the 3rd time. Only a very few have done so publicly and wound up in the news for it.

[BootinUp]

23. Should we flip a coin?

Im tired of you guys gettin all of them.

[rodeodance]

24. The immorality of the Iraq war is the issue-this is not dem vs repug !!

[rodeodance]

26. REC.

[rodeodance]

27. these are interesting comments also:

...Eugene Fidell, who teaches military justice at American University in Washington and frequently represents active-duty military members in legal cases, said the service members who are speaking out are in largely uncharted waters.

The Uniform Code of Military Justice states that service members can speak out, but cannot attack the “war aims” of a particular effort, Fidell said.

“My reading of this suggests that there is nothing here that attacks the war aims of the United States,” he said.

If the government did find a legal basis upon which to charge service members who sign the statement on the group’s Web site, officials would then have to decide if it was worth the political and public relations risks of going after service members opposed to the war — even if what they are doing is ultimately judged to be illegal.

“There’s a lot of fuzziness in it,” Fidell said. “Clearly the issue is, will the government want to make a bunch of martyrs here?”

[kurth]

30. Tell it to the Great Uniter Not A Divider

The guy who sent thousands of them to their deaths for no fucking good reason

[Ganja Ninja]

32. I don't think we have to worry about a Republican Army.

Most of the GOP Chickenhawks have other priorities. They're hanging out with all the other college republicans fighting the battle of ideas from their mom's basement. Hail to the 101st Fighting Keyboarders!

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/

[ourbluenation]

35. someone should send him the voter guide to the military re: the foley seat

It was an official doc from the military and it left out the democratic candidate's name. They later corrected it, but yeah...no shit Lindsay. Talk to your own peeps.

[Nozebro]

39. Is Senator Graham still in the closet, or has he been outed? EOM

nt

[Bandit]

43. “We’ve had a long tradition making sure the military doesn’t engage in political debate,”

Yet he supports Rush Limbaugh on Armed Forces Radio :shrug:

[Rocknrule]

45. Saddam already had a "Republican Guard"

[Jawja]

46. I don't remember any

complaints from Republicans when the military vote was a big issue in the theft of Florida in 2000; and I don't remember any complaints from Republicans over the military having been presented as favoring the GOP over the years. I didn't hear any complaints from Graham about * using the military as a photo op for his criminal policies. I mean, didn't they present the American military as a "Republican Army?"

But now that the so-called "Republican" military is speaking out against the Republican criminals in power, we hear whining from Graham about politicizing the military. :eyes:

[maxrandb]

48. Right Lindsey

As soon as you pricks demand that Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity be removed from Armed Forces Radio, and actually remove them, we'll talk about a Democratic or Republican military.

Signed,

A Bleeding Heart Liberal 23 Year Navy Man!

[DireStrike]

49. Bullshit... people can speak about troops, but they can't for themselves?

I can see the point of eroding the trust in the military, but the right wing is asking for it with their non-stop barrage of "support the troops" empty bullshit.