Why we're in trouble:

[gordontron]

Gay marriage and immigration are back in the news, and it might be here to stay.

[AlCzervik]

1. horseshit.

[blogslut]

2. ditto

cow patties

[bullimiami]

12. bunk.

[babylonsister]

3. ..

:spray: :yourock:

[Atman]

5. Not entirely

I know what he's trying to say. It isn't entirely horseshit. Not entirely NOT horseshit, either, but, I beleive it IS at least part of the GOP's regurgitated strategy, because we were told it worked for the last time. They're only looking for ways to explain their election theft, and they're going with what worked before.

.

[AlCzervik]

11. i was phonebanking last night, talked to people of all politcal stripe

and not a one of them talked about anything other than Iraq and corruption.

[Atman]

28. Don't misunderstand my point

Reality isn't an issue here. CREATING a reality is.

The nation bought into the total absolute bullshit that people turned out in record numbers in 2004 to vote against gay marriage. Go back and look at the final analysis..."values voters." People were supposedly so enraged by the prospect of gay marriage that they swarmed the polls and re-elected a corrupt tin-pot madman. Sure. I believe that, how about you?

But it WORKED for them last time, as an EXCUSE, an explanation for the otherwise unexplainable. They're not focusing on ACTUALLY turning out lots of homophobes to vote. The goal is to once again create the appearance of some sort of event that turned out an unexpected number of voters for Bush.

They're doing it again. A surprising number of states actually have gay marriage bans on the ballot this year, and if the GOP can again dupe Americans into thinking we were all upset about men kissing instead of men killing, then they have a way to explain their miraculous victories. We keep focusing on what they're doing at this moment, not WHY they're doing it. Sure its a bogus issue. You know that, I know that. But why don't any of the Cabal News Networks. Why are they spoon feeding us the anti-gay crap when the entire world is burning while W fiddles?

Because it gives them an EXPLANATION for an otherwise implausible win.

.

[AlCzervik]

29. and i fully understand it was a factor last time but it's much

later in the game and things on the ground are different, i am and will remain optimistic and i'm not sticking my head in the sand to avoid these issues but i don't think these 2 issues have the same weight as they did in 2004.

[Beetwasher]

4. *yawn*

:eyes:

[Connie_Corleone]

6. Who is "we"?

I don't see either issue affecting the election that much. Immigration might matter more in the border states.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. It doesn't have to be real for the repugs to use it -

it just has to be believable enought to explain the last minute 10 point swings between the polls and the election results.

If we don't have a fraud-proof majority, they WILL steal it.

[saltpoint]

7. Nope. Republicans have lesbian and gay kids too, and although it

took the thick robotic lot of them longer to GET it, they're finally getting it now, and that issue doesn't have much oompf.

As for immigration, a lot of Republican land owners employ illegal immigrants and on top of that blatant hypocrisy, that goddam wall is a disgrace, and you just watch how fast it gets taken down.

It won't stand so long as it is an emblem of racist fear, which is pretty much exactly what it is.

We take this election by a handsome margin.

You just watch.

[goforit]

13. Don't forget that pedophiles are connected with Republicans as well.

[saltpoint]

14. I was thinking more in terms of the impact of the Iraqi conflict and

its impact in turn on the Republican voter.

A lot of Republicans' kids are dead now because their majority party in all 3 branches of government told them to send their daughters and sons to Iraq.

Whether they say it out loud or not, they know they were lied to.

That likely isn't sitting very well with a lot of them, and I think we win some of their votes.

[LostinVA]

21. What do pedophiles have to do with either one of the OP's "issues"?

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. Like anyone really cares?

The GOP needs to clean their own houses and closet before they worry about anyone elses.

[KingFlorez]

9. Whatever you say

:boring: :boring:

[patrice]

10. Democrats should get out ahead of the curve on these things.

Don't run from them.

Take the OPPORTUNITY to LEAD.

[liberal N proud]

15. Worked for them in Ohio in 2004

Having the issue on the ballot got the fundies out to vote in droves and while they were out there, they managed to get the vote close enough for them to steal.

It may work since the terra factor has been worn out, so now they can try the fear the gays thing.

[blogslut]

19. Not this time

Dying American children in Iraq trumps fear of queers every time.

[Caoimhe]

16. thumbs down

People are talking about Iraq and stem cell research. Gay marriage and immigration have ran their course.

[GreenTea]

18. Looks like there's a tight-lip on the news by Rove-Nothing new or

the unrest in Iraq, or any republican scandals...We need something to break in the form of real news or force something...because this will keep Indy voters complacent. That's the plan it seems.

No news is good news for the republicans.

[LostinVA]

20. *yawn*

[BuyingThyme]

22. They're over tomorrow.

[longship]

23. Not true

Read about it here.

[Phillycat]

24. OMG you're right WE'RE DOOMED

:eyes:

[gordontron]

31. that's not what i said

I'm volunteering locally, I just find it annoying that all of a sudden this kind of wedge issue is taken back up by the MSM. chill out guys, I'm not predicing doom merely stating that this news could help turn out the rethuglican base.

[Phillycat]

33. I think people are reacting negatively

because for the first time since the 2000 theft, we are going into an election on top in the numbers and the sentiment of the American people. Not to sit back on our laurels, (and I commend you for volunteering, I am too), but to feel confident and project strength. Free Republic is, I'm sure, doing a fantastic job of picking apart every weakness they can conjure out of thin air on the Democratic party. I see no reason to spread those weak arguments here.

But that's just me. :shrug:

[jarab]

25. It's an issue ...

The right knows they're better at propaganda and issue manipulation than are we (and I agree).
They'll try anything, including this NJ ruling, as an element in their campaign of fear.
This time there are more prominent issues before the electorate. I would tend to agree more with your "we're in trouble" description were there not these other issues that concern the voters.
And even without this late ruling, the values factor would have been introduced in a specific way by the Grand Oil Party in some fashion before election day.
We do need our party spokespersons to counter these predictable repuke planks in a timely fashion. And, if they don't, ... then there is "trouble".
jmo
...O...

[WI_DEM]

26. Gee, I didn't know we were in trouble

[Lex]

27. Ummm . . . and this is surprising you?

:shrug:

[Lexingtonian]

30. They don't care anymore

They're tied up with the way they're far deeper and more individual-affecting sh-t after 12 years of misgovernance. Taxes are up, services are down, integrity is absent, there's a pointless ego-based war without strategy (other than running up the body count) being waged in a Third World country, and upper tier Pubbies are stealing them and the public trust blind.

Republicans are in Wile E. Coyote mode- the leadership has run off the solid rock cliff of support in pursuit of the uncatchable, and it's all about not looking down and turning around and trying to get back onto the cliff. But Coyote never makes it, and Republican politicians nationally are running on thin air (i.e. crucial polling support that is as soft as air) too and...November 7 they hope to get back to the cliff or to catch the little tree that sticks out of the cliff as they plummet. We know how it ends in the cartoon version. We know how conservative Democrats in Congress did exactly the same thing and believed they had regained safety in October/November 1994...we know exactly how that ended.

My sense has been that Republicans ran out of usefulness to the political center around this past January, and around March and April that became very clear. Republicans tried desperately to come up with things that proved their relevance and utility for six or eight months, and it didn't work. They got used to the situation and forgot about it because polls stabilized that showed them with numbers in the reelectable range, and they have come to think that the running 35-40%ish levels of support in the electorate still mean The People wants them to carry on. Their problem is that unwavering support for their side has continued to fall but has been masked by a lazy softer support based in convenience.

At this point Republicans have convinced themselves that the 'weakness' they had in January through July was just transient. It was actually the political center deciding to give up on them, but to not to annoy them into really destructive behavior (hey, they still have the powers of office) before Election Day.

It's possible that Republicans avoid catastrophe at the ballot box. But the pollings during the week right after elections will tell us what their real support level and possibilities are. I think Bush will drop under 30% for a time after Election Day.

[Odin2005]

32. Nope, the culture wars are becoming irrelavent..

I think the Terri Shiavo incident was the final nail in the coffin, people are getting sick of the culture wars and are becoming concerned with more important issues.