"Vote Miscount is Already Happening in MO"

[Eric J in MN]

Voting on a touchscreen in Missouri, press Claire McCaskill (D), get a confirmation message for Jim Talent (R.)

From a Daily Kos diary by Permanent Midwest Exile:

A friend of our family's went last Friday to early vote in Maplewood, MO. He voted for Claire McCaskill, but each time he, the election worker, and the election supervisor pressed the screen for Claire, the screen said he had voted for Jim Talent.

I sent this info along to a friend that works in Claire's campaign.

Maybe this is just a software glitch, but I wonder how many other people this is happening to in Missouri.

When a touchscreen is calibrated wrong, this sort of thing happens.

[Coexist]

1. .

[ThomCat]

2. We knew these things would be rigged.

When 100% of reported errors benefit the republicans, that's not an error. It's not a mistake. That's deliberate.

It may be set up to appear sporadic, or random, so that it's hard to track down and hard to prove. But that's the way anyone smart would set up the fix.
x(

[gordianot]

3. Disgusting, Criminal, who calibrated?

[Eric J in MN]

4. Good question.

In repsonse to your post, I posted below that Daily Kos diary, "What company makes that voting machine?"

[nickinSTL]

6. It's in St. Louis County, so...

it would be an ES&S machine, I believe - unless the city of Maplewood has a different contract.

[nebenaube]

40. it's not calibrated, it's configured!

It's analog (mechanical) systems that have to be calibrated, a digital one is just configured. There is no value in a digital system that has to be tweaked once the box has warmed up! (unless it's an A/D interface to a analog signal that is...)

And the code runs perfectly as configured. Garbage in -- Garbage out! If I could test one of these things. I'd be looking at configuration values that don't change from ballot to ballot. I imagine one simple bit in a large hex value is all it takes and the embedded random vote flipper routine becomes active.

[gordianot]

51. It looks like they messed up re 2005 minutes from election commission in Maplewood

see link: http://www.stlouisco.com/Elections/board/mn050719.pdf

"A meeting of the Board of Election Commissioners of St. Louis County was held at its office located at 12 Sunnen Drive, Maplewood, Missouri, Tuesday, July 19, 2005, at 3:00 p.m. on notice and call of the Chairman, John Diehl, Jr.
Present at the meeting were:
John J. Diehl, Jr. Chairman
Anita Yeckel Commissioner
Bill Miller Commissioner
Judy Taylor Director
David Welch Director
Kevin O’Keefe Counsel
The following staff members were in attendance: Deputy Director Debbie Quicke, and Deputy Director Charlene LaRosa.
The meeting was opened and called to order by Mr. Diehl. As Mr. O’Keefe would not be able to stay for the whole meeting Mr. Diehl moved that the meeting be closed to discuss legal and personnel issues first and further said that the meeting would be reopened to the public. Mr. Miller seconded, a roll call was taken and the votes were as follows: Mr. Miller, aye; Ms. Yeckel, aye; Mr. Diehl, aye.
Upon resumption of the meeting Mr. O’Keefe left and Mr. Diehl welcomed members of the public who were in attendance and asked if they wished to speak. Ms. Patricia Berg stated that she was concerned about electronic voting machines and wants them to be examined carefully by technical experts. As a member of the disabled community she said she is willing to keep the chad and not rush into anything new. Ms. Virginia Harris said that she is opposed to the taxpayers paying for new voting machines and that electronic machines are not necessary for all the disabled community. She said there are plastic sleeves that would help the chad issue and inquired about the percentage of federal funding that is available. Mr. Diehl replied that we did not know. Ms. Harris asked if the agenda for the board meetings is on our website. Mr. Diehl replied that it was not. Mr. Welch said that it could be arranged through REJIS. It was agreed that it was a good idea.
Ms. Harris said she did not like the idea of a voter verifiable paper trail as it relies on the voter and is not an adequate check. She wants an original paper ballot, manipulated by the voter (such as an optical scan) as being a safer technology.
The public forum was then closed."

[Rockstone]

56. my PDA phone has to be calibrated

quite often. I think it is called "Touch Pad Alignment" or something. Basically it puts a cross in the center which you click, then in each of the 4 corners of the screen.

Somehow it eventially "drifts" to where you are not activating the thing the pointer is over, but rather something off target. That's when it needs realignment.

[rman]

63. And how was it calibrated?

They're never going to answer that question, except by saying something to the effect of "trust us".

[Blackhatjack]

5. Relax, the Repubs have a solution to this problem....

.... Jim Talent will fix it after he is elected using these electronic voting machines.

You mean you don't like Soviet-style elections where you can vote for the Republican candidate, or you can vote for anyone else and have your vote registered for the Republican candidate?

The arrogance and audacity of those who would 'fix' our elections is now out in the open, and it will take massive resistance to pry them out of control of our elections process.

[Joe Chi Minh]

48. That was their solution. Like Victor Kayam, they loved the

company(Diebold) so much, they bought it. It's proprietory, you see? None of our damn business! So stop whining and get over it.

[demnan]

7. We better be willing to take to the streets

after this election.

[Hav]

8. .

It's just a coincidence in a close race. It happens. Always.

[madokie]

9. I would bet the farm that they will try to outright steal the election

fair and square but if they can't they will make such a mess of it that no one will know the truth, except of course us who already have it figured out.

[progressoid]

10. Tell Lou Dobbs

Maybe this is just a software glitch...yeah, right.

[City Lights]

19. Yes, get this information to Lou Dobbs.

This shit needs to be shouted from the roof tops!

[wholetruth00]

70. Get it to Keioth and Oprah too. How about Sy Hersch? Wooward?

Conason...the heavy hitters. I would even get it to Wolf and FOX News and Rush just so they know we are already on to them.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. Glitches almost always vote Republican.

[OzarkDem]

12. Amazing, isn't it?

Has anyone ever seen a report of an electronic voting machine switching votes from an R candidate to a D? :shrug:

[Lurking Dem]

21. LOL

Awesome comment. You should put that on a bumper sticker!

[formercia]

25. Someone versed in statistics could make a good case

in court.

Like a video poker machine setting the house percentage.Machines do only what they are told to do.

[Clark2008]

30. Are the Glitches a rich, white fundamental Christian family?

Must be.

[Kurovski]

54. Yes

Harriet and Gary Glitch of the Oklahoma Glitches.

Con artists since the Great Depression.

[Chipper Chat]

13. I'll bet Rove is pissed over this.

I can just hear his phone call this morning to the Missouri Board of Elections:
"You %@(**&$#^$stupid idiots! I told you to get rid of the 2004 software and install the NEW one I sent to the republican chairman! Now get your act together and have SOMEBODY put in the new CD. And dont let ANY democrat observer see you. Best to do it at 4am - and dont use 2-way radios! And check any high-floor hotel rooms across the street for people up late. Goldummit! We need Talent to pull this one out 49-48%. Now get the lead out of your ass & get this done before I have to send one of DeLay's leftover henchman to help you out - and that will not be pretty. (Karl slams down phone).

[seabeyond]

14. this is what we got in texas in 2004. pisses me off. they knew about

it and did nothing. vote straight dem adn get bush. four, five times trying to fix and that was if a voter previewed vote before sending it through. how often does it do this. every three punches for dem, every four,.... every ten dem voter. a lot of votes go to the other person on innocent "mistake"

this wasnt the only state.

always sided with the repugs across the nation

[AspenRose]

28. New Mexico, too.

You know, the state with the highest hispanic population in the country. Imagine that. Who'd a thunk it? :sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

60. pissed me off what richardson did. wont trust him. amarillo just

got the machines. i am voting straight dem, cause i want to check. if that machine doesnt calculate right i am call the newspaper and making a stink....

[dogday]

15. It probably would be good to get details such

as the machine number, transaction id number, poll workers names and date and time the occurrence happened... Get as many facts as you can if this happens to you.....

[marions ghost]

18. no probably about it

get all relevant information, numbers, names, dates and times.

Be prepared to report this kind of electronic vote-switching.

NOT OK.:(

[dogday]

20. Absolutely as much info as possible

Machine number and transaction number or id... Poll workers names and the date, time and place of the occurance.....

[marions ghost]

23. yes good reminder

we probably need to be saying it everyday --

Somebody will post the comprehensive list of addresses for filing such reports soon I'm sure. There are both state and national databases for collecting this information.

[Norquist Nemesis]

16. Probably added five or six votes to Talent every time they

were trying to get it to work too! :grr: :grr: :grr:

On a side note, the way this is written is something my husband would chastise me for "believing everything you read on the internet!" He would tell me that it's the friend of a friend urban myth scenario and dismiss it. :banghead:

[newportdadde]

17. Well it would certainly be one to target given the close margin.

[Neecy]

22. what's so infuriating...

Is that Democrats on the city council voted to have Diebold machines installed in Kansas City.

In Missouri, for a Democrat to win statewide office, they need turnout in St. Louis and Kansas City (blue cities) to offset the outstate vote. As soon as I heard KC was getting Diebold it frankly scared the crap out of me.

By the way, we're now getting an ad airing from the Missouri Department of Elections about straight party line voting - this used to be an option in Missouri, and now voters are being told that this option is gone and they must vote for each individual candidate. Why? Is it harder to rig a straight party line vote?

[Fovea]

24. I had a dream the other night

All Karl's RatFuckers were in a room drinking a toast to their handiwork, and suddenly all their heads exploded.
Gods, what a happy dream.

[formercia]

26. Video Poker

I've talked with a couple of people familiar with gambling machines and they told me that the house percentage can be set via software to give whatever return they want. Different venues give different returns. In NV, places where the locals hang out usually give a better return per bet than the big casinos. Precincts are much the same way when voting.

[Justice Is Comin]

31. It's regulated by the Nevada Gaming Commission.

Only the casino owners and the commission have the percentages and they watch it very close. They can be precisely regulated.

That's why you see the signs above the casinos such as "97.9% payout, loosest slots in town, 99% payout." The overall average of all the intake money machines have to equal that precise payout.

This is also why you have experts planning the location placement of machines in the casino. They want the lowest payout percentage machines to be played the most and they have psychological studies which show which machines the gamblers are more likely to gravitate.

Even the old fashioned slots could be regulated for payout by setting the speed each individual wheel would spin. These digital machines are precise as a swiss watch.

And they cost nowhere near what the Diebold crooks charge the city elections boards for one of their vote riggers.

[formercia]

32. Voting should be so well regulated....

good luck..

[In Truth We Trust]

27. K&R.. Hand Counted Paper Ballots NOW!!!

[LeftHander]

29. This is how they win.....

We heard all along they are cheating.

We know they are liars and cheats.

I am frightend that if we don't regain the house and senate America will finished.

I just can't stomach Bush and the GOP smugly saying they have a public "mandate" with another election victory.

[MadHound]

33. Ummm, there is no early voting in Missouri

There is absentee voting, but that is done with a paper ballot that you send back in. And while there have been discussions about enacting early voting, it isn't a law yet, therefore it isn't legal.

In addition, Missouri law requires all electronic voting machines to have a paper audit that the voter can see and verify. Robin Carnahan(Mel's daughter) is and was our SOS while this was all being enacted, and she insisted on the paper trail.

I don't know why somebody over at Daily Kos is trying to stir this up, but frankly it's foolish. Makes it look like the left is screaming wolf when there's no wolf there. Besides, a friend of an anonymous blogger isn't a very good source:shrug:

Here, you folks can do the search and check for yourself here<http://www.sos.mo.gov/>

[smoogatz]

35. Interesting. Thanks for the info.

Perhaps the Kos diarist is confused.

[Kurovski]

38. No. MadHound is.

MadHound is incorrect. Missouri has early, in-person voting, excuse required.

http://electionline.org/Default.aspx?tabid=474

[Dunedain]

61. I don't think he is

http://www.moga.state.mo.us/statutes/C100-199/1150000126.HTM

http://www.moga.state.mo.us/statutes/C100-199/1150000277.HTM


Looks like it's only in a presidential election year to me.

[Kurovski]

66. No, once again, He is incorrect, you can vote early WITH AN EXCUSE.

You can do it NOW. Provided you have an excuse. And the voting will be on a touchscreen machine, just as in the DailyKos blogger story.

It is not legal otherwise.

I saw that statute hours ago. It does not change the reality in Missouri.

http://www.changeformissouri.com/2006/10/23/vote-early/#more-239

Look here, EARLY VOTING, top right, in the state auditor's box: Look, fer cry-eye. "Early Voting: October 24 - November 1 "

http://www.dscc.org/2006races/mo/

Some folks seem to have a lot invested in disproving the vote-switch story at DailyKos. Geez. :-)

Donch'a have Google or Altavista in 'yer neck of the woods?

[Solon]

36. I'm in Missouri Myself, and what you say is true, in addition to that...

We don't HAVE electronic machines in my district, we are still using punch cards. I don't know about District 1, where Maplewood is at though, I'm in District 2.

[Kurovski]

46. You have early voting, and it is on touchscreen machines.

http://www.changeformissouri.com/2006/10/23/vote-early/#more-239

[Solon]

49. Great, just found out my county spent 1 million bucks on electronic machines...

just this summer, to replace the punch cards, I hope I end up at an optical scan machine.

[Kurovski]

37. Yes. There is absentee in-person voting.

You can REALLY check for yourself here.

http://electionline.org/Default.aspx?tabid=474

Scroll down to Missouri. "Early voting?" the answer is "yes".

You have made an error, MadHound. If you have time, you may want to edit your post.

You have a half-hour to change your post.

There is nothing foolish about the DailyKos article, based on your theory. MO has early voting, excuse required.

[grizmaster]

39. that link is dead

[Kurovski]

42. Try this article. (The link works fine for me)

http://www.changeformissouri.com/2006/10/23/vote-early/#more-239

"Let me say to start, that voting absentee requires a reason. Missouri has not legalized early voting as some states have. Now, coming up with a reason isn’t tough if you’re willing to stretch the truth. Just say you plan to be out of town–and then drive across your municipality’s city limits for a few minutes.

But if you’re uncomfortable with lying, take comfort in the fact that there’s a downside to voting early anyway, and that is that you will be required to vote on a touchscreen machine. If, on the other hand, you wait for election day, you should have the option of voting on a paper ballot."

[grizmaster]

47. Thanks, that one worked

Doesn't sound good for the home team

----

"But if you’re uncomfortable with lying, take comfort in the fact that there’s a downside to voting early anyway, and that is that you will be required to vote on a touchscreen machine. If, on the other hand, you wait for election day, you should have the option of voting on a paper ballot. Two words in that last sentence need elaboration: “should” and “paper”.

"I say “should” because Robin Carnahan, as Secretary of State, has ruled that every precinct must have paper ballots as backup in case the machines malfunction. Representatives of Missourians for Honest Elections asked members of the St. Louis County Board of Elections if there would be paper ballots in every precinct. The MOHE people were told that indeed there would be–in the form of touchscreen machines. The BoE rationale is that the machines have paper records in them and batteries in case of power failure. What could go wrong?"

[grizmaster]

43. I don't see anything about evoting on the SOS site either

[Kurovski]

45. That's right, you have to hunt for the clues.

But they have it. Check the other link I provided for you.

If you want more, Google it.

The fact is, Missouri has early elections, and they're on touchscreen machines.

[Kurovski]

34. K&R

GODDAMMIT!!!

I don't want to read another post about how discussing election fraud is "Glooming and dooming"

Wake the fuck up. Once and for all, just fucking wake the hell up. We absolutely must record and prove every single occurence of fraud.

Be they troll or nervous nelly DUer, anyone who feels the urge to post such a thread and waste time, please, just go fuck yourself.

And may the Lord bless and protect you.

[Kurovski]

69. I apologize to sincere DUers who may worry about logging election fraud...

having an affect on voting. It was very rude of me to say "F" yourself. Please forgive me. It was uncalled for.

However, trolls may proceed as directed.

[Sancho]

41. We've told this story on DU before...

In the last election, my wife and I were among the first in line for the new machines in Fl. After we "voted", my wife went to the check vote screen and her vote was changed from Castor (d) to Martinez (r). She stated loudly (there were lots in line) that "all she wanted to do was vote for Castor". The poll workers couldn't get it to change, and a little tech guy came over and took the machine aside and restarted it...but we were stupid back then and actually didn't know if it was an error or not. As we left, the guy was putting the machine back in line. I tried to go back in and protest that they couldn't do that... and they wouldn't let me in!

I don't believe that Bush won either election down here.

[Kurovski]

44. I believe you're correct.

Which is why I also believe it's important that we get everyone we can to vote.

[weeve]

50. Everyone bring video cameras

Are we allowed to bring our handheld videocameras ( or picture phones ) into polling stations ? If something like this happens the first time, make sure you film it occuring the second, third, fourth times. If enough people have this same type of footage, it would make an extremely powerful arguement. It's one thing to read about this type of thing happening, it's quite another to see it time and again. Never underestimate the power of the moving image - think Rodney King.

[gordianot]

52. Or your cell phone

[Kurovski]

57. Here's more info on that, weeve.

Or rather, another thread directing you to "Video the Vote!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2481730

[Kurovski]

53. Kick.

Thanks for posting, Eric J in MN. :thumbsup:

[JBear]

55. This is why early voting is bad!...

Early voting is not exit polled. There is no way to indicate whether there is vote fraud going on without exit polling. Early voting in 2004 in Wake County NC was overwhelmingly democrat...and oddly enough it went for Bush. Wake County does not typically go republican and was polling in the days before the election in double digits for Kerry.

Vote on election day!!!
:bounce:

[The Count]

58. Is that part of Rove's math?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=454877&mesg_id=454877

[Kurovski]

59. Yeah, that was pretty creepy. But then, Rove is the original "Big Creep."

[Kurovski]

62. Please email Keith Olbermann, request that he keep his eyes on

election fraud.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x454834

[fooj]

64. Excellent idea.

Funny how it never goes the other way, eh? Wonder why THAT is???:grr:

[Kurovski]

65. Oh fooj, I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

Ya know, the kind that happens 999 times out of a thousand? :mad:

I'm just so frikkin' pissed-off today, I tells ya.

[fooj]

67. Join the club, my friend.

:bounce:

[Kurovski]

68. At least your rotating daisy always gives me a smile...

when I'm not blinded by rage, anyhowz...:-)

[mom cat]

71. Bet you do not find too many errors that favor the Dems!