I think some of you have the wrong idea about this Secret Service thing.

[Skinner]

I am a little concerned that some people here may have a fundamental misunderstanding of the issues involved in this Secret Service situation, and therefore may have unrealistic expectations about what Democratic Underground is doing.

Issue #1: The Secret Service is just doing their job. It is the job of the US Secret Service to investigate possible threats to the president of the United States. While it is not clear whether these posts constituted a legitimate threat to the president, the posts definitely did include content that would have raised red flags among the Secret Service. The Secret Service agents I spoke to were extremely professional and polite.

Issue #2: There is no indication that this is politically motivated. All indications are that this is a fairly routine investigation narrowly focused on two individuals who posted three messages on this website. There is no indication that the Secret Service are actively monitoring Democratic Underground. When I asked why after five years we suddenly heard from them on two separate issues, they said that a concerned citizen had contacted them. I have no reason to disbelieve that explanation.

Issue #3: The information request is narrowly focused on only two individuals. The Secret Service asked for information on two people who posted on our website. They did not ask for information on anyone else, and they certainly did not ask for our entire database. Unless you are one of the two banned members in question, you have nothing to worry about.

Issue #4: There exists no constitutional right to threaten the life of the president of the United States. I think some of you have the mistaken impression that Democratic Underground has declined to voluntarily hand over information on these two individuals in order to protect their right to "free speech" with regard to presidential threats. This is not correct. Our position has nothing to do with free speech. The administrators of Democratic Underground recognize the need for the Secret Service to investigate what they perceive to be possible threats against the president of the United States.

Issue #5: Our concern is protecting the privacy of our members, to the extent that we are legally entitled to do so. As visitors to our website, you have trusted us with private information about yourself. We take that trust seriously. If the government (or anyone else), asks us for your private information, we are not required to voluntarily hand it over. That is what happened: The Secret Service asked us if we would voluntarily share information about two former members of this website, we consulted with our lawyer, and we politely declined to do so. So, what happens now? The Secret Service must decide whether to try to get a subpoena to compel us to hand over the information. In order to get a subpoena, they will have to convince a court that they have a good reason to make us hand over the information. This is how our legal system protects your rights. If the court grants the subpoena to the Secret Service, then that will most likely be the end of this. Of course we will consult with our lawyers to make sure everything is legit, but barring some unforeseen issue, this will effectively be over.

At this point, we have not heard back from the Secret Service. If we do get a subpoena or subpoenas, we will let you know. But whatever happens, do not expect this to be some kind of epic Supreme Court-level constitutional battle -- because this is not that kind of case. The legal issues involved here are all very clear and well established.

David Allen
Democratic Underground Administrator

[swimboy]

1. Thanks for clarifying.

I completely get that and hope others will think about it too.

[bridgit]

2. understood...

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

3. Thank you

For handling this site in such a professional manner.

[madmusic]

4. Most of us got all that, I think.

And we are just playing with it. Thanks for the clarification in any case.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Curious who 'tipped' them off?

I wouldn't be surprised if they are connected to the people who made the offensive posts.

[Kire]

8. It was Elvis Presley

He's Alive!!!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. Pretty stupid of them, if true.

1) Freeper #1 posts threat on the President's life to DU
2) Freeper #2 reports said posts to Secret Service.
3) Secret service gets subpoena for records of the posts.
4) Freeper #1 gets visit from Secret Service.

Not exactly the outcome they'd hoped for, if that's what really happened.

[smoogatz]

69. Wingnuts and the law of unintended consequences

They're practically synonymous these days. Republicans and convicted felons both tend to lack the ability to foresee the consequences of their actions. Interesting, isn't it?

[Strawman]

41. This move has spazzy nerd college Republican written all over it

Some turdbag with Hannity photos plastered all over the walls his dorm room and who idolizes Karl Rove. Someone who desperately needs to get laid.

[spoony]

65. With DHS on speed dial lol n/t

[bobthedrummer]

53. Highly probable. eom

[nam78_two]

63. A few posters on a RW site

At least thats what they are claiming. One of them apparently keeps reading all the posts on DU and alerting the SS about most of them :eyes:.

Apparently they feel that wasting the time of the SS on wild goose chases as well as being a nuisance to the admins of liberal websites makes them patriotic Americans or something :eyes:...

[kentuck]

90. We should not forget that a DUer was "ratted out" to his employer...

and lost his job for something he had written on DU. Remember the guy that worked for the radio station? I forget his name? However, it is not totally implausible to believe something like this...

[Lochloosa]

6. Got it Agent Mike...

:evilgrin:

[byronius]

7. The way you handle stuff makes it a free space. Straightforward.

Don't go changin'.

[Sammy Pepys]

9. It doesn't sound to me like they're going after DU per se...

...more that they have an interest in talking to the folks who posted whatever they posted. I think the only reason DU is involved is because that's where the remarks were made. If those posters had made those remarks (whatever they were...I don't think I ever ran across them) anywhere else, I don't think the amount of interest the USSS is taking would be one iota different.

[leveymg]

10. You're handling this in the right way. I 'm truly grateful

for Admin's principled and professional approach in this matter.

Thank you!

[hpot]

11. Hosting Provider

They could probably get a database dump of your site from the hosting provider unless you directly manage the server(s).

[cui bono]

12. Well said. Personally I think all the "look here SS Agent" threads and posts

are quite immature. If Wesley Clarke were the president and this happened on this or another board I'm sure everyone would want the Secret Service to do their job to protect the president.

Edit to clarify: Not to say that just because it's * nobody cares about threats, but I think the attitude would be different.

[uppityperson]

13. thanks, sounds like one of those things. Thanks for updating

[Rainscents]

14. I believe, some people got little upset due to possibility of shutting

down the DU or create problems for DU because it was done deliberately by trolls. Skinner, I knew what you were trying to say and that, SS is only doing their job.

[maddezmom]

15. thanks for the update, Skinner

[Richard Steele]

16. Thanks. That was the impression I had from your first post.

An impression that many others did NOT get.
I was starting to wonder if it was ME who
was mistaken, y'know?
I appreciate the clarification!

[sinkingfeeling]

17. Gee, Skinner, I just wanted to know if they knew the SS agent who used

to be with President Clinton.

[MrCoffee]

18. Thank you, Skinner, for the voice of reason.

[izzie]

20. Well I think the feds are getting a little to over done on news stuff I

do recall all mail was read during WW2. Also new was highly under the govt. control. Bush does seem to be very un-liked so I guess the nuts will come out just as they did with Clinton. I do think this is because the WH is cracking down on any thing said about the war. It has been sort of put on high speed. I do not wish the President to be hurt just not to be President after 2008 and for the life of me I do not recall what any one said that would bring in the SS.

[kestrel91316]

51. I think I alerted on a thread last week that might have been one

of the ones in question. But for the life of me i can't remember exactly what the post said. Just something highly inappropriate against Bush (who i do not normally defend in any way)..........and it was a low-post-count person but I don't remember the name........

[mirandapriestly]

21. And yet the Secret Service left George Bush in that school

when "terrorists" were attacking the U.S. and his location was public knowledge.

[Straight Shooter]

66. Yet they hustled Cheney away with no time to lose. n/t

[izzie]

89. Our three fearless leaders. "The Three Stooges goes to War'

George, Dick and Don. All doing just what we would think they would do when told the country had been hit. George sat to get his mind with it and then hide for hours, Dick ran to the 'room' and did not know what to do and Don ran out and played he was a fireman. Then 5 years of trying to live it all down by making war on people. Wimps are wimps even in bad times. But one thing for sure they have helped the terrorists better than the terrorists leader could have done. We now have terrorist every place and growing. Now one has to shut up people who may tell these three that but mostly people who would act on it. I just say it and nuts on both sides of love and hate some times do things. I thought the SS was busy stopping people from jumping the fence at the WH so I am not sure why they are going after a chat room. Sign of our times I guess. They seem to be shutting down blogs from Iraq and newsmen getting in also. I would think this all would get really bad in the next two years. One must recall that the President has the right to put 'his people' into every group in govt. So the Presidents men are in some control in most of the dept. of govt. now. We went through this before in my life time. Called the Red baiting times.

[Scout1071]

22. Thank you. I think people got carried away. nt

[Mythsaje]

23. Speaking for myself

I didn't even think twice about the issue. I was probably the first one to read your original post, and the first recommendation, and never thought about it again until I read this post.

The Secret Service is obligated to investigate any such threat to the person of the President of the United States. Even if he IS an asshole. ESPECIALLY if he's an asshole.

I have no disagreement with how you and DU have handled this issue.

[Gregorian]

29. Well put.

Skinner, we know.

It's easy to misunderstand DU'ers. I did at first. We take the obvious and go two or three steps with it.


The Secret Service IS just doing their job.


And we're really sick of it all. So you get replies that are really facetious and sarcastic. And for that, I apologize. It's sloppy of us.

PS- Bush sucks! :)

[Double T]

24. Thanks for the clarification............

and just a reminder: Don't drink (alcohol) and DU, the ass you save might be your own.

[tblue]

88. Good point. Don't DUUI (DU Under the influence)

[Rex]

25. epic Supreme Court-level constitutional battle

Oh, come on Skinner! We all want to see you up there in front of Scalia reading him the riot act! ;) Yeah, SS are just doing their jobs folks. But it would be cool to have an epic battle in the SCOTUS!

Throw the book at em Dano!

[Critters2]

26. You're doing a great job, Skinner et al!

Level-headed and reasonable, while still protecting our privacy and other rights. Well done!

Oh, and what kind of moran threatens the president on a public website?

[Kali]

98. My issue wouldn't be with what kind of moran threatens, but rather

who and what defines a "threat". I trust the judgments made in this instance by DU and think all are handling it fine, but that issue of definition IN GENERAL certainly does merit discussion.

[grizmaster]

27. I have a feeling the election will provide enough drama

that this will fall (quite rightly) into it's rather small place in the scope of things.


At least it reminded people that speech may be free, but consequences can cost big.

[Marnieworld]

28. Makes sense to me

People should just roll with it. It's kind of naive.

[Catherine Vincent]

30. "..a concerned citizen had contacted them"

A F'ing freeper!

[TornadoTN]

37. Probably so, but the fact still remains

If what they posted was indeed a direct threat or thinly veiled one, I probably would have reported it myself to the admins (if not the Secret Service). Disliking the President is one thing, but advocating illegal and murderous action is entirely another altogether. Freeper or not, they did the right thing (I might argue that it should be left up to the admins to make the decision to contact the authorities, but I don't know the circumstances in this case).

Having said that, Skinner and crew are doing the right thing by working within the legal channels to insure everyones rights are protected. But I don't feel sorry for whoever was responsbile whatsoever. I'm just as unsettled as anyone else about the direction of our country but I know where to draw the line. Maybe it was comments made in the heat of the moment or an impassioned debated, but people have to be responsible for their comments in circumstances such as these.

[Catherine Vincent]

43. I have no problem with anyone alerting on threats to a specific

president, even if it is an illegitimate one. But I'm thinking this so called "concerned citizen" that contacted the SS more than likely alerted on a lot of posters here on DU just because. I'll bet they weren't all concerned all those years President Clinton was getting threats on cnn message boards and freepville. Concerned my butt!

The more than likely scenario is what a poster said above where freeper troll posts threat here and paste it on their site then some other Bushie contacts the SS complaining about it.

[TornadoTN]

46. The only problem with that scenario

Is when the Secret Service actually investigate the threat and if they feel it is legitimate enough to subpoena over, then they will not have a hard time tracking them down. They still made a threat, regardless of their intentions, and the judicial precedence is that all threats are taken seriously - most often leading to prosecution and imprisonment.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything that a Freeper would have to gain by doing something like this. Sure, it puts DU in a bad light for a short time but they risk being shown for what they are if they are caught - and that is frauds. Plus they get to spend some time in prison (which probably isn't a bad thing for most Freepers).

[Catherine Vincent]

49. Freeper #1 that made the threat on DU wouldn't know that freeper #2

would call the SS on them. So freeper #2 think it was an actual DUer that made the threat which initially it was freeper #1.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. Do you really expect rational thinking from freepers?

They'd get about as far as saying "let's post some shit to make the DUmmies look bad", and not ever think it would come back to bite them in the ass.

[Brian Stevens]

68. So I guess you are saying....

[salinen]

31. Just asking

is it o.k. to call * a slimy puss filled sack of coyote shit that I'd like to piss on?

[SaveOurDemocracy]

32. Well done and professionally handled.

Thanks :kick:

I think there's been too much attention given this issue and Rush Limbaugh. My opinion.

[TornadoTN]

33. Thanks for the voice of reason

I believe this is the proper response of the Secret Service for ANY sitting President (or other important member of the government). Just because it happens to be against a President that we don't support or trust doesn't meant that what happened wasn't totally against the law and against the better sense and judgement of most Americans. Take a moment, if you will, and consider that if this same scenario had played out with a Democratic President in office. I truly believe that we would be up in arms about it and want to have the Secret Service check it out.

What Skinner & Crew are doing is the proper response as well and I applaud them for it. Let it serve as an example of working through the proper channels to insure our liberties and basic system of law is preservered.

People are getting anxious and jittery about the state of our nation and the world. Make progress and change happen with our voices and our efforts, rather than threats and thinly veiled inuendo. I know 99.9% of DU'ers are some of the best and brightest, but leave it to that .1% to put a dark cloud over everyone involved.

[WilliamPitt]

34. Kind of amazing #s 4 and 5 needed to be said at all.

The Secret Service protects The President - not Bush or Clinton or Nixon or Ford, but The President. The shattering aftermath of an assassination is not something anyone should wish to experience, no matter who is in office, and these guys offer up their lives and health to keep this from happening.

This actually will probably be remembered as the best Freep ever pulled on DU. Two assholes managed to get Federal attention brought down on us; the fact that the Service is even looking at us is all the evidence of that needed. Now, people are a little spooked because of that attention. Mission accomplished.

I've covered a ton of stuff in DC over the years - protests, inaugurations, etc. - and I always found the Service agents to be the most polite, most professional, and the most helpful law enforcement officers in the district, no matter what was going on. Maybe that's because every agent I dealt with knew he could kill me just by looking at me the right way... :) ...but probably it's because they're pros who have the indescribably luxury of being above politics in the most political town on earth.

:toast:

[mikelewis]

54. I can't imagine this to be a "freep" incident...

I'd be surprised to find out that it was some self-appointed agent provocateur who decided to bring "the Man" down onto DU. Without knowing any of the content of the posts or the motivations of the posters, I just assume that someone said something a bit too radical and probably completely ridiculous... allowing passions to override sensibility. It's easy to feel sheltered from the reality of the outside world when sitting alone at your desk, lamenting the daily dose of garbage flowing from Washington and then seeing that trash despoil so much of our world. I'm hoping that this little incident will just fizzle out but will serve as a much needed reminder that we all need to think before we hit that send button.

I am concerned that this incident could send a "chill" through DU but if that chill keeps some good people out of trouble maybe this incident is more of a positive than we know. The only one's who should feel chilled are those who are prone to let their loose lips sink their own ships... (myself included). People shouldn't fear the Secret Service unless they intend to cross them and even though our laws are pushing us closer to that feared "Police State" so often prophesied, many outstanding agents still make the call on which infractions they notice or which perpetrators they choose to investigate; and without knowing who posted what or why, I'd rather not hang any DU'er out to dry in the future by intentionally or accidentally antagonizing the SS over this current episode (even if you are right and this was a freep).

My hope is that the SS agents assigned to this case actually take the time to get to know us here on DU and they take the time to read some of the great posts DU has to offer. During their investigation, they will be putting the DU under the proverbial microscope for a bit and assessing the threat level posed by this site... that is of course standard in any investigation. If during their brief visit here they happen to find posts from some of our most excellent posters like (but not limited to) H2Oman or NancyGregg or yours, they may take a liking to this site and spend a little time getting to know the spirit of what I see as the "Real" America. Things said that we simply ignore as ignorant rantings can easily be misunderstood by those who don't know us and maybe if these agents get to know us a bit better, they may be more inclined to see some of our more radical posts in a more benign context. Of course we cannot expect them to ignore the law but maybe when they receive future complaints, they may be more inclined to see some rants in a less threatening light.

[Laurab]

73. Actually, after reading the whole (long) other thread about this

I got the impression that it was, indeed, a "freep" incident. Low post count, outrageous posts, tombstoned, and gosh, the Secret Service just happened to be notified. It's doubtful it was coincidence. The funny thing is that it will be the freepers who get in trouble, if anything comes of it. They really aren't the brightest bulbs, so it probably never occurred to them that it might lead back to them or their friends.

The SS agent that I was friends many years ago had no real interest in politics, no love for the people he was protecting, but was very serious about his job. That's one position that you don't get because of your politics, and it's doubtful that they'd be troubled by people's rants. For all we know, they feel the same way.

[symbolman]

87. Just keep a can of

Chef Boy R Dee with you at all times Will, just in case they give you "the look".. :)

I don't consider Bush to BE President, but if the SS says so, well, who am I to argue with them ;)

I DO appreciate what they DO since I really don't want to see ANYONE harmed in any way, for any reason, and I have found them to be very polite and decent folks, DEDICATED to Their Country, just LIKE US. Imagine loving your country SO MUCH that you would take a Bullet FOR someone like Bush?

THAT is Patriotism, squared. Let's work hard to give them someone, through a LEGAL election, to be WORTHY of them and their love for the USA.

Thanks for clearing that up Skinner. I was wondering when someone would take it in their teeth and run with it to the farthest reaches of the human mind :)

[HamdenRice]

35. The paranoia comes from recent administration statements ...

mostly from the DoD and Homeland Security. They seem to believe that websites are a frontier of the war on terrorism, and recent statements strongly suggest that they consider "domestic radicalism" to be akin to foreign terrorism.

So the paranoia that DU -- as well as DailyKos, Huffington Post, and all other liberal websites -- are being routinely monitored is justified.

But I think some DUers may be barking up the wrong tree, in the sense that if such monitoring is occuring, it is Homeland Security and DoD who are doing it, not the Secret Service.

As the OP correctly points out, the Secret Service is narrowly focused on protecting political officials and a few other areas of law enforcement, but not on political monitoring.

[TornadoTN]

40. Well put

A lot of people are getting worked up about this and they haven't taken the time to truly understand the dynamics that are in play here. The Secret Service is more interested in the protection of political officials than any kind of political monitoring. A lot of these same men and women will be the ones protecting Democrats in office and they have to make the same decisions day to day regardless of who is in political power.

I'm concerned when people are being investigated for political speech or for their ideologies. This just simply isn't the case here.

[NashVegas]

36. I Truly Admire The Way You All Are Handling This

Thanks, Skinner, Elad and Earl G!

[johnnie]

38. You pretty much said it all

As I stated yesterday, my cousin was SS (and going back) and he and another agent were in town a few weeks back. They even crashed at my house after a night of downing some brews. They both don't give a crap who is president and they just do what they are told to do.

As I also stated, I jokingly mentioned them monitoring these sites and they laughed at the thought of it. They have much more important things to do than to surf the web watching this stuff. I wouldn't be surprised though if the people who made the claims aren't investigated a bit more than DU.

They are just people doing their job, and that is to protect whoever they are told to protect.

[Polemicist]

76. Monitoring the web is automated...

And done by a FBI system called "Carnivore". It would likely pick up any comments threatening to a public official and refer same to the proper law enforcement authority. The only time agents might look at a website, is if alerted by an automated program or by a call from a citizen. Here's more information on electronic ease dropping and web monitoring...

http://www.epic.org/privacy/carnivore/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(FBI)

[kurth]

39. Remember Richard Allen Humphreys

What he actually wrote was quoted in the U.S. Court of Appeals opinion at:
http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/03/12/031014P.pdf

Do not write anything that you have to "explain" to a jury.

[Jed Dilligan]

42. All that is clear, but

I still am angry at the PRICKS in the Secret Service for needlessly harassing a child in Sacramento recently.

"Just doing their job" or not, these are pigs who get off on creating grief for innocent members of the public.

I despise them… and saying that IS within my Constitutional rights.

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

50. self delete

[autorank]

44. 100% Agreed, Totally. This is important to understand in the details.

Don't come here and threaten to kill people. I've seen violent threats and they get purged promptly.

The people who do this may be provocateurs but the principal enunciated for protecting privacy is
clear and to be respected.

That the only inquiries of admin that have occurred concern these two threats is quite remarkable.

I'm not worried about what I post here or about being here. This will have zero impact on my
willingness or enthusiasm in posting information that exposes the lies of this administration.

I support the DU position here 100%

[Parche]

45. a big thank you

As much as we all despise GW Bush, he is a President and the Secret Service were doing their
jobs, unlike what they did for JFK.

[Midlodemocrat]

47. A friend of mine is a secret service agent on the CAT detail.

I told him about this situation and he said that they investigate stuff like this all the time. All kinds of idiots make threats; in bars, on websites, etc.

I think you handled it beautifully, Skinner. :thumbsup:

[underpants]

48. I got that that is why I didn't respond to the first thread

[Pacifist Patriot]

72. Same here. And I've ignored everything else about the Secret Service.

Seemed pretty routine and obvious to me.

[Mr_Spock]

52. lol - the conspiracy folks on DU are going overboard

What else is new - lol.

[Chomp]

55. DU

needs to be very, very careful of a growing paranoia I see on here at the moment.

Anyone with even moderately sophisticated political antennae should have been able to work out what this was about from the get-go.

Sorry to sound patronising, but some people on here sound more like angry undergraduates on a campus sit-in rather than people with the intelligence to realise what this SS thing was about.

[blogslut]

56. thank you

keep up the good work. DU rules.

[althecat]

57. Question is.... did you watch Prison Break?

.. now did you punk!

[RaleighNCDUer]

58. OK. Thanks. Now can we get back to our hysteria? nt

[jwirr]

59. Thank you, Skinner. When George McGovern was running for

President I had the pleasure of working an event with Secret Service agents who were protecting him. My 10 year old daughter was also used as a runner for them back to the phone line I was setting on. They were like you said - polite and business like.

[helderheid]

61. Thanks Skinner!

[nam78_two]

62. Thanks for everything Skinner/nt

[michreject]

64. Thanks. ......eom

[Brian Stevens]

67. Was Todd vs. US ever considered?

I think thats what the case is. When someone said that "if I get drafted, I will have Johnson in my sights", the guy got arrested for threatening the president. He challeged the arrest, saying that it was anacdotal and was by no means a real threat. The USSC sided with him and said it was protected speech. Just wondering.

[Skinner]

70. If the two people in question do eventually get arrested...

...then it will be entirely up to them to decide whether thy want to fight this as some sort of violation of their free speech. If they do, Democratic Underground will not have a dog in that particular fight.

Our concern and our responsibility is for the privacy of the people who come here.

[lonestarnot]

71. I hate dog fights! Glad we don't have one of those!

[Brian Stevens]

100. I hope I got the case right

Thanks Skins.

[Polemicist]

74. Has DU ever gotten a National Security Letter?

It's my understanding that had DU ever received a "National Security Letter" requesting information, that they are compelled by the force of law to respond, and can't disclose to anyone the fact that they received such a letter.

I'm much more concerned about these possible violations of our Constitutionally protected right to privacy, than I am a Secret Service inquiry.

[Skinner]

92. No.

We have never received such a letter.

[sandnsea]

Something occurs to me

I get what you're saying, understand completely, bla bla.

But I was just thinking. Did you know that until Patriot Act that it was illegal for law enforcement to surf the internet to catch crooks. It's like law enforcement didn't used to be able to enter churches and such just on a whim to see if somebody was up to something illegal. They had to actually be on a legitimate case with actual evidence that led them to a building. Same with the internet, they used to have to have actually gotten a tip. If this goes any further, it would be interesting to me to know that they really had gotten a tip because otherwise we're into privacy infringement that used to be illegal.

I hope that made sense. :)

[mmonk]

75. Thanks. That's what I pretty much thought.

[H2O Man]

77. Sounds fine to me.

I agree fully.

[bdamomma]

78. thanks skinner for the update.

[Festivito]

79. Do you believe the threats were real enough for concern?

If yes, you do not need to wait for a subpoena, you ought to have turned it over to the SS before they came.

If you feel that it was just a rant, a venting that meant little or nothing, certainly no harm to anyone, then you should await the judge's decision, even to defy it, and appeal it.

And, how certain are you. Do others agree with you? (I bet they do.) Who? Yourself, SS, judge, DUers, elad, Earl, ... If some but not all of these, yikes, you have a difficult decision.

I wish you well. I wish us all well.

[Skinner]

93. What I said in the OP is how I feel about these posts:

While it is not clear whether these posts constituted a legitimate threat to the president, the posts definitely did include content that would have raised red flags among the Secret Service.

[OnyxCollie]

80. I must admit, I got a bit carried away emotionally by this.

Even had my first deleted post.:blush:

I do not disagree with the Secret Service performing their duty to protect the President. What bothers me is, now that we have received the attention of the Secret Service, in a matter of a threat to the President, what protections do we have that the NSA is not monitoring everyone who posts/lurks at DU?

The Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968? LOL.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978? Nope.

The Fourth Amendment? Forget it.

No, our privacy is only permitted on the whim of the President.



Land of the Free*

[dweller]

81. got it ...

back to posting while drinking for me. :)
believe me, i am not here to wish any harm on anything, no matter what the voices in my head direct me.

i will continue to drown them out one way or the other.

:toast:

dp

[hedgehog]

82. Well done!

Excellent course of action and excellent explanation.

[Bitwit1234]

83. No right to threaten anybody's life

I don't think it is right to threaten anybody's life. It is not right to phone in or say you are going to bomb someone.

One thing tho I can't understand is how did they know that someone on this site threatened the president. Must be a leaker somewhere. And I think the moderators did one hundred per cent right to ban such activity.

What I can't understand is how they can let Hannity and the Fox Boys along with Ann Coulter threaten people and get away with it. I know that the secret service only goes after people who threaten the president or vice president , the cabinet etc but there has to be somebody who takes people making theats ON TV YET SERIOUSLY.

And I have said it over and over no body in their right mind would want to do anything to bush, when they know cheney would take over.

[msedano]

84. #5 - if all you want is process...

exercise it independently and just give up the info. why allow yourself to be compelled by a court into doing what you already perceive to be the right thing?

[Skinner]

94. I've said before that the intent of these posts was not clear.

We do not think it is the "right thing" to voluntarily hand over someone's personal information to the government because of what could have been a meaningless throw-away comment. If the Secret Service can convince a court that these posts constitute a legitimate threat, then we can feel relatively confident that there is something there.

This was not a case of someone posting "I'm going to do X." If it had been, our perception of the "right thing" probably would have been very different.

[Rude Horner]

85. I understand

I think it's commendable that you and your staff are handling this in a professional manner. I agree that all threats must be taken seriously, so I don't blame the Secret Service at all in this particular matter.

[Hekate]

86. Well done, Skinner, and thanks for the update. nt

:hi:

[DemonFighterLives]

91. Hi to Agents Mike and Molly!

I understand what is going on and I want to go on record as saying I never wished any harm on the President or anyone else. In fact I hope he lives a long life preferably in prison or the Hague for taking this country back 30 years.

I like the idea of protecting posters' privacy, but in a case like this, I don't see the reasoning to protect the hit and run posters in question.

May the SS get always get their man/woman!
:tinfoilhat:

[Orsino]

95. Sorry, but you're not in a position to know all of this.

We don't know that the SS is "just" doing its job, and we don't know what sort of political motives might be behind their actions. With (enormous) respect, you can't, either.

Just doing one's job, it need not be emphasized, is not always commendable.

I'd like to believe you. I think you're probably right, and that you have been treated professionally to your face, but the faith you've expressed seems naive these days. About all I'm confident of is that your own motives are pure, that you'll do your best to see that we are advised of any wrongdoing that you are aware of, and that the SS itself is still mostly staffed with brave, intelligent and well-meaning professionals who are volunteers, not robots. A sad truth, however, is that the * Administration has shown that it can screw up almost anything.

[Skinner]

96. With respect, I stand by my post.

With regard to this particular case, the Secret Service is just doing their job. Their job is to investigate possible threats to the president of the United States. Their request has been narrowly focused on exactly that.

And with regard to their motivations, I said that there is "no indication" that this is politically motivated. Yes, anything is possible. But all the evidence available to me indicates that this is completely routine.

[Orsino]

99. You've handled it very well...

...as we would have expected.

[Warren Stupidity]

97. OK, and a Big Shoutout to Agent Mike!

Hey Howdy!

You're doing a great job Skinner. Me personally I think it is ridiculous that typing some words on a keyboard is a crime, but that's just me. Your board rocks and Agent Mike is welcome, as are all, to read our idiocy and even post some of his own, as long as he follows the rules.

[BlooInBloo]

101. Um, what happened?