Check In Here If You're Still Sane

[cali]

and find the attacks on Senator Byrd and Nelson beyond the pale, if you're not surprised by Lieberman voting against Alito, because you know enough about him to realize that he's actually fairly liberal on most domestic issues including choice. Check in if you understand that Roe is still protected by a slim majority on the court.

Yes, I wanted the dems to filibuster. I thought it was a risky enterprise that probably wouldn't work, and could be damaging, but I thought it was worth it for the opportunity to bring the dangers Alito presents, to the public. I'm deeply disturbed by the thought of Alito on the court. I'm also disturbed by the venom being spewed by some around these parts. It's really ugly. And it's ignorant. For those of you posting some of this invective, try being less reactionary and more reflective. And a little less passionate intensity might help too.

"The worst are filled with passionate intensity, while the best lack all conviction."

I know exactly what Yeats meant.

[Caoimhe]

1. I thought Byrd was liberal on issues

concerning workers rights. What gives? :think:

[Avalux]

2. Emotions are running high right now.

I understand that you're venting, but it's probably not a good idea to write a post like this. Besides, Kerry may still filibuster. Don't throw in the towel just yet.

[Neecy]

3. I think valid criticism is fine...

Byrd's vote outraged me, given his lip service to the Constitution, but I *do* think that the klan remarks are beyond the pale.

If you think today is bad, wait until the vote itself. I don't think we've really seen anger yet.

[seabeyond]

4. still sane. yes i am n/t

[OneBlueSky]

5. I'm amazed that anyone actually thought that Alito's nomination . . .

could be stopped . . . BushCo controls everything -- the Congress, the Presidency, the media, the voting process and, in many instances, the courts . . . they can pretty much do whatever they damn well please . . .

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. This fact doesn't stop the babies here

who threaten to leave the party, hold their breaths, throw a temper tantrum, etc if the Dems don't stop <fill-in the blank here> even though they have no friggin power to do so. Worse are the ones who wish to lynch any Dem who actually wants to keep his job and not vote against exactly what the vast majority of his/her very Republican state/district wants even though there was no chance his/her vote was ever going to make a difference in the first place.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

6. Very nice

Thank you for this small gift of clarity.

Yeats had it goin' on, did he not?

Consider, by the way, that the filibuster is NOT for purposes of bringing Alito's shortcomings to the fore. That should have been done during the hearings, which were nothing but an embarrassment (I'm haunted by the goofy image of Joe Biden donning a Princeton baseball cap) to the Democrats, who conducted themselves poorly. Now, the venom you see being spewed here is uninformed and misplaced. Somehow, people think a filibuster was the cure for botched hearings, when, in fact, it was never any such thing.

But, the passion on this non-issue is exactly what I noted when the Kelo decision came down from the Supreme Court. Uninformed can generate a lot of passion, all of it misdirected and wasted, leaving only anger and frustration in its wake. I wish more people would read up on how these things work - it would make it much more interesting for them.

[cali]

15. Thanks, OLL

for understanding what I was trying to say, even if I said it clumsily. You're absolutely right about the botched hearings. I was, by and large, mortified by the dems, though I thought my Senator aquitted himself honorably, if not brilliantly. (Leahy) I think one thing I was trying to say is that mob mentalities really, really scare me.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. You were eloquent,

not clumsy. Anyone quoting Yeats has my full attention, and your post was a relief - a clear and intelligent and welcome relief, I might add - from the unfortunate thrashing about that I'm witnessing here today.

Mob mentalities SHOULD scare you. They scare me. Then someone quotes Yeats, and I have hope again.

Thank you, Cali.

[Neecy]

17. totally agree

The hearing on our side wasn't a coordinated, well-planned case for why this man shouldn't be on the court. People picked up issues and then dropped them only to bring them up again a day later with identical rambling questions, there wasn't a single good followup question and Biden's clowning in a baseball cap was a frigging disgrace. Nice to see how seriously Joe takes our constitutional rights, isn't it? Then again, we have him to thank for Thomas.

I'm sort of leaning toward blaming Leahy for this disaster, and it's tough because I like the guy. Perhaps we need a stronger personality as minority chair of the Judiciary committee.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

25. Or,

we need to start down at the bottom, backing individuals (I'm putting my $$$ on the Iraqi military vets who are running for Congress as Democrats), and begin the work to regain the majority. This incumbent bunch - all of them - have lost me forever.

I was SO disappointed by Leahy. What happened there?

[King Coal]

30. So what you're saying Lefty is that some lionhead is slouching toward

Bethlehem to be born again? That ol' King lacks conviction and those that hate libruls will prevail? Well, Bush slouches and says he's born again. Clarity my ass! Throw the Roe vs Wade virgin to the volcano and damn the torpedos!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

32. OK, that's it.

No more regular coffee for you. And - I mean it - no more speed.

First, we have to find a virgin.

After that, I'm only a consultant.

Face it - the Democrats are dickwads.

[TornadoTN]

7. Emotions are high, but consider this

You are thinking through this rationally, which is admirable and something that we should all do. However, Robert Byrd voting for Alito flys in the face of everything that the man supposedly stands for. Workers rights and separtion of powers to name just two. I understand and agree with everyone upset at Byrd, because it genuinely boggles the mind that the man can be a self-professed "statesman", yet give a rubber stamp to what will undoubtebly be a crucial blow to the downfall of our democracy as it was intended.

[Generator]

8. You are wrong

The one thing these "democrats" that supposdely represent us need is passion. Passion of their convictions. They have none. GET IT? The Democratic party is dead.

Edited to add you just called everybody that cares about this CRAZY. That wants real reprensenation from our elected reps that give it all they've got-CRAZY. Listening to Fox news much?

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. IT's not about Roe V Wade -it's about the seperation of powers.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

22. Here ya go, Cali

This post is an excellent opportunity for you to test-drive your Ignore button.

What a boorish and self-serving post, Generator.

You not only need to learn how the legislative process works, you also need to study a primer on good form.

You lack it.

(And it's "separation of powers," FYI. You have no trouble spelling 'fuck,' but you fucked up the basic tenet of our Republic.)

[King Coal]

33. LOL! You tell him, Lefty.

That was a Lefty left hook to the liver.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

39. You better be nice to me

I'm not always this easygoing .............

[King Coal]

40. Shoot. Not only are you and oldleftylawyer you're also an oldsoftie.

:pals:

[Generator]

34. Considering that is the most ire I've ever felt while posting

(against) another Du'er, it's a wonder I can spell at all. But thanks for the correction. (soon to be deleted anyway) But I stand by the premise-that Roe V. Wade is the least of our worries. And yes-you are a lawyer and need to find fault with me-but the "unitary executive" is what I'm referring to. If Samuel Alito is going to allow the president powers beyond the constitution, is that not a problem of seperation of powers? It's already happened with the signing statement on torture.

[King Coal]

36. Separation, Generator, not seperation.

Sorry, but it bugs.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

38. Don't fault Alito

He is what he is.

Fault the circumstances that put him where he is, and fault the impotency and incompetence of the Democrats who helped.

This one you cannot lay on Bush - this one, this baby belongs to the Democrats, start to finish. Harry Reid capitulating to Frist over the "nuclear option" with those interim appointments of three Fascist judges last summer was the move that broke whatever spine the Democrats even had at that point.

And you owe Cali an apology.

[cali]

47. Pssst

Ever read E.M Forester's "Two Cheers For Democracy"? Now there's a brilliant collection of essays.
Great to quote from, and amazingly prescient. I can't think of anyone more capable of seeing beyond the curve than Forester.

(I don't use the ignore button)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

51. Time for a re-read

I'll lift my eyes up and away from William Trevor and James Riser and give old "Passage To India" guy another read. His prose has sustained, and thank you for the wonderful reminder.

(I LOVE the ignore button)

[cali]

45. I don't need an apology.

I don't think you understand the point I was trying to make. I agree with you that it's not all about Roe.
Expansion of Executive powers scares me too. In my defense, I wan't calling everybody that cares about this crazy. I was objecting to certain posters (granted there seem to be an unfortunately large number) who stampede together in a hysterical mass. They're acting as a verbal lynch mob. I think that's unfortunate. I've read posts on this topic that are strong and thoughtful, and make their points without resorting to hateful ranting and bizarre conspiracies.

[EFerrari]

9. Here is a sane strategy re Senator Byrd.

Me, I don't know so much. :silly:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=250202&mesg_id=250202

[WilliamPitt]

10. The filibuster was the longest of long shots

Even if the filibuster happened, it would have ended eventually, hardened GOP support for Alito, and the guy would have gotten onto the court by dint of simple math.

It sucks, but there you go.

[TornadoTN]

16. True, but it was necessary

To be a vocal party of opposition and to establish the Democratic party as a party of action. It keeps the issue on the thoughts of Americans and gives the Republicans a chance to show who they really are. Further, even though we work through media bias, it still gives us an opportunity to get our people out there talking about why this nomination is bad for America in blunt, yet understandable terms.

But of course, I am an idealist when it comes to this issue, and idealism accomplishes nothing when the Republicans are in control.

[stevedeshazer]

20. That is exactly what would have happened

The votes aren't there.

[jonnyblitz]

11. eh, I never expect much so I am not overheated about this. nt

[DrunkenMaster]

12. Give me a break!

How exactly is commenting on Byrd's past in the KKK "beyond the pale"? The man had a heinous history full of digusting racism; he redeemed himself temporarily in some eyes but has now given into the nomination of SCOTUS justice that is bent on giving Imperial powers to President Bush.

Yeah, you sure are focusing on the right issues. Byrd is a Saint -- how DARE people get angry at him?

On edit: if this is sanity, you can keep it.

[acmejack]

13. Why don't you read this eloquent response!

It was written by one of us "ignorant", "ugly", "reactionary", "venom spewing" people whom you make clear you consider to be less than entirely sane. I am not sure why you would choose to associate with any of us, but that is a different matter for another time.

Anyway, I ask that you raed this and maybe you will see where we come from:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=185&topic_id=1799&mesg_id=1799

[cali]

21. Read it and have nothing but respect for the OP

C'mon now. That wasn't venemous spewing at all. It wasn't what I was referring to. Reread my post. I disagree with Byrd. I'm disappointed as well. And the OP isn't coming from the place that I talked about in my post.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

23. It's nicely written

but its conclusions are erroneous and not well-thought-out.

It was the task of the Democrats on the committee to present the case against Alito, to amass the evidence and go forth with it. They didn't do that. That left Alito as a perfectly acceptable candidate for the Supreme Court.

Byrd did what he had to do, and it's because he was boxed in by his Party.

The outrage on DU about this lack of filibuster is a remarkable show of lack of information.

[Walt Starr]

14. So tell me again, why should I give a shit about Democrats getting elected

I see no reason to give a shit about it any more. They didn't give a shit when push came to shove, so why reciprocate?

Go figure.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

28. Walt, you've claimed you haven't given a shit for a long time now.

And yet you keep pissing and moaning? Why?

I think you just like grandstanding and pissing people off, quite frankly.

[Walt Starr]

37. Did they vote for cloture yet?

:shrug:

Doesn't look like the complete capitulation has happened yet. Definitely looks like it's coming, though.

[MsUSA]

18. It's just another vote, like all the other votes we fall short on.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

24. Still sane

I don't think many others are here though. It's why I don't post in GD much any more. They hyperbole is way out of control.

[0007]

26. Tlhank you for editing the klan remark

[Buns_of_Fire]

29. Let's just say my mental stability hasn't appreciably CHANGED

Years ago, Robert J. Ringer stated his philosophy: The Sustenance of a Positive Attitude by the Assumption of a Negative Result. Reworded in terms that I can understand, it boils down to "Expect the Worst, but Aim for the Best."

So I've emailed, I've snail-mailed, I've called, and I've faxed. I plan to continue to do so until the issue is resolved. And should the worst happen, I'll wail and moan and gnash my teeth and rend my garments like everyone else -- then I'll get up the next morning, strap on my sword, gird my loins (but not too tightly, and not around the sword), and do it all again for the next fight.

It's what I do. I'm a Democrat.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Politicians acting like politicians. Staying in office is all that counts

Byrd and Lieberman are playing to their constituencies. Hopefully the voters in CT and WV will remember their votes and vote accordingly. And rid themselves of the sellouts.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

42. Don't you try to keep YOUR job?

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire point of being an elected official to do what your constituents want you to do? (That was a rhetorical question.)

[fooj]

43. I always thought so...

explain to me why he headed the coal mining hearing yesterday, then. This nomination looks to take away any rights those poor people have left. Am I to believe that the people of WV are uninformed as to how their mining safety measures have been slashed by this govt? Isn't it HIS JOB to PROTECT his constituents against that? Your doing a great job, Bryd. A great job...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

44. The people of WV are so uninformed that they believed

Kerry was going to take away their Bibles if he became President. This is a true story.

You tell ME if they're smart enough to connect those dots.

[fooj]

46. Oh shit. You've got to be kidding me.

:wow:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

48. I wish I was.

RNC sent out direct mailings to everyone in the rural areas of WV (which is almost all of it). Polls indicate it worked.

[fooj]

49. Vile rat bastards!

Holy shit! Is there nothing sacred anymore?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

50. Check it out here

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/152/story_15297_1.html

[fooj]

52. That is absolutely nauseating. It's absurd!

How the hell do they get away with this shit? Thanks for the info. It sheds new light on the situation for me. You see? Never to old to learn. LOL!! Thanks again!

Peace.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

54. Any time.

I find especially on DU, too many people vastly overestimate the reasoning skills of our fellow Americans. What we see as ridiculous and obvious goes completely over the heads of these people. Seriously, how else to you explain that people seriously think the ACLU is communist when the ENTIRE purpose of their organization is to protect your civil liberties, and they do so regardless of whom the person is (I'm looking at you, Rush Limbaugh).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. Tell it to Senators Fullbright and Morse.

And, others who went into teeth of their constituents to do what's right instead of what's popular.

[NoPasaran]

35. Yo! Sane here!

Which is more than I can say for some of those who feel compelled to post on this thread.

[fooj]

41. Are you implying that those of us who find the man who totes his

pocket constitution around with him is nothing but a walking contradiction are less than sane? Hmmmm...

Peace.

[Neil Lisst]

55. When your kids suffer a disappointing defeat, ya let 'em blow off steam.

I think it's like that.

It's not the time to lecture them, but to let them vent. Same deal here. Each person is entitled to respond as he or she sees fit. Some rant. Some pout. Some threaten. Some erupt. Some leave for a while.

Each person has their own coping mechanism.

I wanted a filibuster, but I knew it was over for that Wednesday, which is why I ran the cartoon I did yesterday.


I'm very disappointed in some of our Dem senators, but I'm not going to call for their heads. That is self-defeating thinking.

I'm just going to start pushing that big rock up that hill again. It's not going to get there by itself.

[sproutster]

56. Liberman has some opposition and is now "seeing jesus"

And it's not about abortion for me.

It's about corruption, it's about dictatorship and finally it's about the people who f'ing support this. THERE ARE OTHER CHOICES.

This dude is dirty. He is biased. He has profited and apparantly no one has a problem with him sitting on the highest court in the land.

[Snivi Yllom]

57. Byrd was very eloquent and gave a passionate genuine speech

On the contrary, Kerry made a calculated political move to benefit his own standing with his base.

[rucky]

58. If you lower your expectations, you'll never be disappointed. n/t