Naval Gazing: Why are so many being deployed to the Persian Gulf?

[originalpckelly]

What are your guesses for all of this? What is the real reason those ships are there? We should have a discussion about this, and everyone should post their ideas on what could be happening (aside from the obvious one.)

[truthisfreedom]

1. november surprise! what else? a terror attack on a US vessel leads to...

at least that's what i expect.

[Dems Will Win]

2. The interesting thing is that Reuters announced the small armada

was there to participate in a Naval INterdiction exercise. But it turns out that the major 27 ships that are now massed in the Gulf are NOT participating. ONLY 1 Coast Guard vessel is, the only US ship out of 9 participating.

So why is there such a huge fleet there?

The Enterprise NEVER ROTATED OUT WHEN THE EISENHOWER CARRIER GROUP ARRIVED.

Now they've battened down the hatches in Saudi Arabia, ostensibly due to al-Queda.

Don't forget there is an even bigger fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean and they can fly over and help out.

Plus I live in a place where fleets of B-52s fly over at 5 AM whenever there is a big war about to start and up until 2 days ago that was going on every night for a week. The last 2 times that happened was only the week before the Afghanistan and Iraq Conquests.

In short, something could very well be up in the White House again.

[Auntie Bush]

4. God! I hope not! I pray the idiot isn't that stupid.

Maybe they're there as a big bluff of power to threaten Iran into compliance. But, that's an awfully expensive bluff.

[FogerRox]

5. The Ike aint there yet

Looks like the Ike is underway from Italy to the Suez canal

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/gonavy/atsugi/gonavy604.html

A huge fleet is 6 CVG's and 20 LA class attack subs. Not 2 CVG's and 3 subs.

Plus there are not even 100 B-52's left, and at any one time 2/3's are mothballed.

http://www.kxma.com/getARticle.asp?ArticleId=51884

No need to cry Wolf. Keep an eye whats going on & Vigilance.

On edit:

27 major ships, please don't go there. Major ships are Air Craft Carriers and battleships. Destroyers and minesweepers are not Major.

[FloridaPat]

3. There were tons of rumors * would invade Iran in 2004. He's been

leading up to it since then. Scott Ritter says we're already in Iran fighting. It sure would mess things up for * if the repubs loose control of anything.

[FogerRox]

6. Lots of disinfo floating around

This post is just flat out wrong on many points:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2467508#2472247



ARLEIGH BURKE’s don’t carry Tomahawk cruise missles, they carry a defensive Sea Sparrow:

ARLEIGH BURKE - class Guided Missile Destroyer USS Mason-DDG-87
Armament 1 x 5"/62 RF, Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM), 90 VLS Cells,
2 SH-60B helicopters, 8 Harpoon Missiles, 6 x 12.75" TT.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/01087.htm

“Two helicopter aircraft carriers with 5500 Marines aboard total”
These are small carriers, a large fleet carrier doesn’t even carry 5500 in crew.
Wiki says a Battalion, tops 1200 troops, not 5500.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battalion

Here a Battalion is 800 to 900 troops:

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9356754

“Note: I read somewhere in my research that guided missile cruisers carry 120 cruise missiles each.”

2 Launchers and 122 Tomahawks:

-guided-missile cruiser USS Anzio-CG-68 :
Armament: MK26 missile launcher (CG 47 thru CG 51) Standard Missile (MR) or MK41 vertical launching system (CG 52 thru CG 73) Standard Missile (MR); 2, Vertical Launch ASROC (VLA) Missile; Tomahawk Cruise Missile; Six MK-46 torpedoes (from two triple mounts); Two MK 45 5-inch/54 caliber lightweight guns; Two Phalanx close-in-weapons systems.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4200&tid=800&ct=4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Anzio_(CG-68)

Generally speaking Carrier groups need missle defense, they usually are escorted by destroyers that carry Harpoon and Sea Sparoow missles for defense.

Here a poster uses the term “major ship of the line”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2467508#2473081

A term traditionally reserved for Battleships or Heavy cruisers. Not Minesweepers, Destroyers or Cruisers.

MEUFrom Wiki:
A Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) is the smallest Marine Air-Ground Task Force in the United States Marine Corps.
The Marine Expeditionary Unit is normally built around a Marine infantry battalion, a composite helicopter squadron, a MEU Service Support Group, and a Command Element. Troop strength is about 2,200, commanded by a colonel. Occasionally a MEU is built around a regiment and is called a Marine Expedtionary Brigade (MEB) and is commanded by a Brigadier General.
The MEU is routinely deployed with fleets in the Mediterranean, the Western Pacific, and periodically, the Atlantic and Indian Oceans for roughly 6 months; unless in a time of crisis and war. Up to four naval amphibious ships are needed to carry the necessary troops and equipment.
note the use of the term SMALLEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Expeditionary_Unit
This article infers only part of the 24th MEU landed in Kuwait:
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=39514&archive=true

Wiki says a Battalion, tops 1200 troops, not 5500.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battalion

Here a Battalion is 800 to 900 troops:

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9356754


Here a post infers the Kitty Hawk is bound for Iran, Kitty left Japan Oct 20th: And also mentions the Stennis which is still off So Cal.
“If they pushed it up to 30 knots, that group could be off Dubai by the 29th.”
Except Kitty is in the Philippine Sea, IIRC that’s the wrong direction.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/gonavy/atsugi/gonavy604.html


Missiles
The Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) is a short range missile intended to provide self-protection for surface ships.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/rim-162.htm

The Harpoon missile provides the Navy and the Air Force with a common missile for air, ship, and submarine launches. The weapon system uses mid-course guidance with a radar seeker to attack surface ships.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/agm-84.htm

Tactical Tomahawk Penetrator Variant missile
On 27 May 1999 Raytheon was awarded a $25,829,379 undefinitized cost-plus-incentive-fee/cost-plus-fixed-fee, ceiling amount contract for the modification of the Tactical Tomahawk missile to the Tactical Tomahawk Penetrator Variant configuration as part of the Second Counter-Proliferation Advanced Concept Technology Demonstration. The Tactical Tomahawk missile will be modified to incorporate the government-furnished penetrator warhead and the hard-target smart fuze. Four Tactical Tomahawk Penetrator Variant missiles will be assembled to conduct the advanced concept technology demonstration testing. Work will be performed in Tucson AZ and is expected to be completed by March 2003.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/bgm-109.htm

Bunker Busters

This is the the GBU-28 or the BLU-113, is 19 feet (5.8 meters). It weighs about 4,400 pounds. The GBU-27/GBU-24 (aka BLU-109) is nearly identical to the GBU-28, except that it weighs only 2,000 pounds (900 kg). It is less expensive to manufacture, and a bomber can carry more of them on each mission.



Air-to-air view of GBU-28 hard target bomb on an F-15E Eagle.




The MOAB weapon is based upon the same principle as the BLU-82 “Daisy Cutter”, except that it is larger and has a guidance system. The weapon is expected to produce a tremendous explosion that would be effective against hard-target entrances. From :

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/moab.htm

The MOAB can only be dropped from a C-130, a land based plane. The rest of these “Busters” are too small, they can blow a crater about 20 to 30 feet deep in soil, not rock, not concrete.

This story is worth watching, closely. But the Ship & Troop movements we are seeing are nothing to worry about when it comes to attacking Iran. But I will finish by saying “Remember the Maine”. Which is why I am watching DESCON 2, 2 of its ships are older, IIRC scheduled for scrapping in 2008, that’s a prime candidate for the Gulf of Tonkin.

Vigilance.

But don’t cry WOLF.

[Wiley50]

7. Foger Bro, As you know, all our Battleships are Mothballed Permanently

So, I guess, other than carriers, the cruisers, esp the GM Crusiers are the biggest ships we have out there now.
And I would say a GM Cruiser w/ 120 Tomahawks, really, in this day and age, when big guns are obsolete
120 Tomahawks could do some major destruction, on the scale of Battleship guns, but with much more range and spread.

Follow me? Am I making sense to you so far?

So, I'm asking: Wouldn't that make GM Criusers the modern main ships of the line?


Also: What do you make of the, apparently, huge NATO Fleet off of Syria, Lebanon

And Esp TURKEY - Guarding our huge airbase in Turkey and the Huge Oil Depot
right next door to it.

I know sometimes Globalresearch.ca ain't always real accurate
and they reprint articles by a lot of journalists whose first language is not english
and, therefore, may not be up on our exact terminology
But, Dammit, sometimes they hit the nail right on the fuckin' head.
And this one, as far as the ships off Turkey, makes sense to me

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061001&articleId=3361

[Wiley50]

8. Of Course, when we went into Iraq, the B-52's and B1B's

were based out of Diego Garcia, the British Island Aibase
in the Indian Ocean. And Iran is even a little less far from there.

Our B-2's, nade the trip nonstop roundtrip
from their base in Missouri

And then there's that country whose name starts with I
(That They don't like us to mention except in that dungeon
with it's own special rules)
who have been sayin', lately, that the nuclear negotiations with Iran
are going too slow and has been wanting to kick Iran's ass
like they did Iraq's reactor 20 years ago, and
has tons of aircraft missles and bombs (even abouyt 200-300 nukes
by most experts best guess) that we've given then over the years.

Now, if they should decide to touch off this thing
( with our, unofficial blessing, of course)
when We and NATO just happen to have all those ships there
( and nobody knows how many of our subs and I subs or NATO subs
are there because they are kinda sneasky being underwater and all.

This thing could get real hot real fast without folks like you and
a lot of others seeing it coming. See what I mean?

I know you are an expert at naval stuff, but that naval sruff
is only a piece of what would be involved if this thing blows.

[FogerRox]

11. "So, I'm asking: Wouldn't that make GM Criusers the modern main ships of the line?"

No.

Never heard that untill this point.

Late model LA class subs have 12 vertical launchers plus 4 horizontal. Thats a salvo of 16. Your GM Cruiser can fire a salvo of 6.

So I will take an Late model LA class sub. You take a GM Cruiser. Tomahawks at 1000 miles. And I will let you go first. OK? Deal? DO you think you can reload before My 16 tom toms come down on you head? In fact I will give you an additional ship:

ARLEIGH BURKE - class Guided Missile Destroyer USS Mason-DDG-87
Armament 1 x 5"/62 RF, Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM), 90 VLS Cells,
2 SH-60B helicopters, 8 Harpoon Missiles, 6 x 12.75" TT.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/01087.htm

Which carries

The Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) is a short range missile intended to provide self-protection for surface ships.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/rim-162.htm

The Harpoon missile provides the Navy and the Air Force with a common missile for air, ship, and submarine launches. The weapon system uses mid-course guidance with a radar seeker to attack surface ships.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/agm-84.htm

These are defensive systems.

Do you think you could stop 16 Tomahawks, coming at you from 16 directions? Do you think your Toms will do squat
when I am 300 ft underwater. & I can time all 16 Toms to hit you at the same time, saturating the point defense of your 2 SHIPS.

One of the traditional definitions of a Ship of the Line, was that it could take on smaller ships. thats plural, SHIPS. ANd kickbutt and take names. See Capital ships @ Wiki:

In the 21st century, the aircraft carrier is the last remaining capital ship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_ship

[FogerRox]

15. And thats...... 122 Toms carried by a GM cruiser, still only 6 launchers though.

[FogerRox]

17. Wiley, isnt there supposed be a NATO fleet off of Lebanon?

Is NATO doing something with Lebanon...... I just can't remember what is is..........

Come on... don't make me say it........

[raysr]

9. Gulf of Tonkin ploy.

[FogerRox]

16. Tonkin... could be, look out for DESCON 2, this group has 2 older

Destroyers, slated to be scrapped in 2008. They might make good victims. But let say there is a Tonkin incident, why not put 4 or 5 more carrier groups and 20 subs with TOmahawks, in the area so that we could kick ass after the TOnkin incident.

I mean why go thru all the trouble? and then you have to wait 2-3 weeks for the real FLeet to show up, to deliver payback....... Still does not fit the known set of data.

[nicolasladron]

10. Souls of fallen U.S. GIs in Iraq go to hell?

I'm reading liberal Christian fundamentalists think the souls of fallen U.S. GIs in Iraq go to hell because our occupation there is illegal.

[FogerRox]

13. Nick, dude, do you speak english? This thread is about NAVAL ships

That can attack Iran. Please keep it on topic. Welcome to DU.

[mikelewis]

12. I thought this thread was going to be about the discovery of lint...

but since it's not... I'm hoping this build up is just an act of brinkmanship on Bush's part to scare Iran into stopping its enrichment. While this could be the prelude to some false flag event leading to an attack on Iran, I am not totally convinced of that just yet. Too many Repub sources are warning about an attack so when a repub says it, I assume the opposite. Clearly something is going on but if it was a war with Iran, Bush would be beating the hedges right now trying to paint Democrats as "soft on Iran". Since he's not, I assume it's something else... something probably equally as stupid but hopefully less catastrophic.

[FogerRox]

14. Lint, LOL, OK.

Good points mike. And you retain your sense of humor.

[FogerRox]

18. and a kick

[windbreeze]

19. I watch for posts from you FogerRox

I trust you to keep us informed of what is going on with the ships in the Persian Gulf and elsewhere..I wish I trusted this bunch more than I do...but I firmly believe they are fully capable of sinking one of our own ships, causing the deaths of all on board, in order to get involved in Iran..yes, I do....so I will keep watching for your posts on the situation, and trust you will let us know when the time comes to seriously worry about what they're up too...
windbreeze

[FogerRox]

21. You are right Windy, you can't trust this bunch

Vigilance.

[lovuian]

20. My bet is we are going to bomb Iran

and start a WWIII so Bush can have his Marshall Law

Just a theory...

[FogerRox]

22. Gotta keep an eye on this bunch, They can't be trusted to do the right thing

.

[Wiley50]

23. OK I'm Back. Sorry I crashed early last night

Don't know anything to add right now

Except to reiterate:

This article at Global research both in numbers and location of NATO ships

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061001&articleId=3361

And it's logic concerning what they think is the REAL reason they're there
(not because of Lebanon, too many ships for that job)
But, to protect the NATO base in Turkey (Turkey having mutual defense treaty with Isreal)
and to protect the HUGE oil depot next to the airbase at Circlik Turkey

I really think this part of the picture bears watching
eeven though the writer who only speaks english as a second language
referred to a carrier as a battleship

The baby and the bathwater and all that

[FogerRox]

24. Wiley. . . ABSOLUTELY . . . WATCH THIS STUFF

SO do you want to take my deal? I get an LA class attack sub, you get a GM Cruiser and an Ariegh Burke? Or did I do a good enough job making my case that you are maybe re-thinnking the use of "SHip of the Line" or "Capital ships"....

I will give you cred for realizing the power of a GM Cruiser w/122 Tomahawks, and how fragile they might be. But I think you realize the GM Cruiser needs a defensive net around it. That net might be the carrier with air power and/or Defensive ships like the Arliegh Burke class.

Vigilance BRO... can't trust these fools.