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Hope springs eternal (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:45 PM Original message |
Voter reciepts: A way to stop voter fraud once and for all. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:47 PM Response to Original message |
1. HI there, Hope and welcome to DU. |
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rhiannon55 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:48 PM Response to Original message |
2. It works with ATM machines |
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bowens43 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:50 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. A printed receipt will do nothing. |
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bowens43 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:48 PM Response to Original message |
3. Nope, It won't work. |
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bryant69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:50 PM Response to Reply #3 |
5. There's no system that can't be hacked |
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bowens43 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:51 PM Response to Reply #5 |
6. That's true but nothing is easier then hacking electronic devices. |
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bryant69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:52 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. I don't agree. |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:54 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. Yeah, you're right. Let's just dump elections and forget the whole thing. |
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bryant69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:05 PM Response to Reply #10 |
17. I wouldn't really agree with that. |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:25 PM Response to Reply #17 |
29. Well, I think that goes without saying. Not many criminals are interested |
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bowens43 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:57 PM Response to Reply #8 |
13. What are the strong points of electronic voting machines? |
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bryant69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:03 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. Simplicity of use, great ease of uniformity. |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:13 PM Response to Reply #16 |
22. I can't agree with that. They aren't 'simple' for millions of people |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:18 PM Response to Reply #16 |
26. You've obviously never seen the workings of an old lever machine |
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bowens43 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:23 PM Response to Reply #16 |
28. Oh my. |
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SharonAnn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:57 PM Response to Reply #3 |
12. And it would allow people to "buy" and "sell" votes. Here's the way: |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:03 PM Response to Reply #12 |
15. I like your logic but why do we need the machines at all in this case? |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:25 PM Response to Reply #15 |
30. Watching the "hanging chad" debacle didn't convince you? |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:30 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. I never came even close to defending a windoze-based machine. |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:47 PM Response to Reply #31 |
40. A piano-roll type of paper |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:59 PM Response to Reply #40 |
43. Thanks for the explanation! I assume 'hanging chads' aren't an |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:06 PM Response to Reply #43 |
46. The rolls are read just as a player piano would read notes |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:12 PM Response to Reply #46 |
49. Okay, I'm just trying to learn here. Many player pianos use no electricity, |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:16 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. No electricity involved. Purely mechanical. |
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SharonAnn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:49 PM Response to Reply #30 |
61. Mechanical voting machines can be hacked. They're just gears |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 10:59 PM Response to Reply #61 |
67. I suppose you're right. I could machine some new gears... |
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orleans (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-31-06 03:49 AM Response to Reply #67 |
69. thanks for all the great info on these mechanical machines |
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grasswire (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:43 PM Response to Reply #12 |
37. the notion of "buying and selling votes" pales... |
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Hope springs eternal (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:05 PM Response to Reply #3 |
18. if certain preciencts recorded enough irregulaities |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:16 PM Response to Reply #18 |
24. Convincing a jury, either in civil or criminal proceedings with that sort |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:52 PM Response to Original message |
7. A receipt by itself isn't useful. What we must have is a paper with |
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Tess49 (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:14 PM Response to Reply #7 |
23. Why not print out two receipts? Like they do in restaurants. |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:19 PM Response to Reply #23 |
27. I don't have a problem with that, it's just more paper. But how does |
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Tess49 (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:31 PM Response to Reply #27 |
32. It's for your records -- just like any other receipt. |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:36 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. I understand but it isn't the same thing. If somebody says I didn't PAY |
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Tess49 (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 11:04 PM Response to Reply #35 |
68. Check it against the LIST. See post #11 below. |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:53 PM Response to Original message |
9. No. |
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OnionPatch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 07:55 PM Response to Original message |
11. I've been thinking of something similar |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:00 PM Response to Reply #11 |
14. The problem with that is this: Suppose you find out your vote was |
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OnionPatch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:06 PM Response to Reply #14 |
19. Can you explain it in more detail? |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:10 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. Okay I'll try. If your 'stub' only shows you voted, |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:33 PM Response to Reply #21 |
33. What about the "secret vote" aspect? |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:38 PM Response to Reply #33 |
36. Are you sure I'm the person you mean to argue with? I have |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:52 PM Response to Reply #36 |
42. Hey, don't roll your eyes at me! |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:01 PM Response to Reply #42 |
45. Haha...I'm not sure, actually. I'm NOT in favor of touch-screen |
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grasswire (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:46 PM Response to Reply #14 |
39. which is the greater danger? |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:51 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. I assume the question was rhetorical...and I don't think buying votes |
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grasswire (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:17 PM Response to Reply #41 |
51. might be hyperbolic |
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Tess49 (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:17 PM Response to Reply #11 |
25. I was thinking this very same thing. Couldn't figure out how to |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:10 PM Response to Original message |
20. I don't understand why anyone thinks a receipt will do anything |
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napi21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:34 PM Response to Original message |
34. I've only heard of one system that sounded like it would work. |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:46 PM Response to Reply #34 |
38. In Oklahoma we have a system that I'm fairly comfortable with: |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 08:59 PM Response to Reply #38 |
44. If it computerized, it is hackable. Period. |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:10 PM Response to Reply #44 |
47. I'm not sure these machines claim proprietary software but I'm gonna |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:21 PM Response to Reply #47 |
52. Your plane's chips are different in one way... |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:35 PM Response to Reply #52 |
57. I get what you're saying but I think you might be confusing pure hardware |
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napi21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:22 PM Response to Reply #44 |
54. Yes of course. Any MACHINE is hackable if you want to look at it |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:25 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. No, ANY machine is NOT hackable. |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:41 PM Response to Reply #56 |
59. Do you think there might be one of those for sale up there in CT |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:55 PM Response to Reply #59 |
62. I'm serious...you couldn't |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 10:02 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. I'll check on Ebay. I've done some very interesting things with |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 10:47 PM Response to Reply #63 |
66. You do realize these machines are the size of Volkswagons, right? |
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meldroc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:12 PM Response to Original message |
48. Not just No, but HELL NO!!! Welcome to vote buying and extortion! |
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RC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:22 PM Response to Original message |
53. The best way to vote is to apply the KISS principle. |
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napi21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:25 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. Now you sound like our old Chairman when the VP's were trying to talk him into installing our first |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:43 PM Response to Reply #55 |
60. Computers are great for doing things people cannot. |
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napi21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 10:38 PM Response to Reply #60 |
64. Having been a Director of accounting for a number of years, |
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Mayberry Machiavelli (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 09:38 PM Response to Original message |
58. The key to any system is a 3d party audit, accepted by all. This would |
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napi21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-30-06 10:43 PM Response to Reply #58 |
65. You're absolutely right! That's why I favor the Sequioia machine |
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