What Can Be Done Must Be Done.

[Plaid Adder]

If I see another thread about how we should just give up because "they have the votes"...

1. They do not have the votes. The votes do not exist yet. They have a certain number of people who have said they intend to vote one way or another. Anyone who's got a mind can change it. Hence the calling, faxing, etc.

2. We are looking at permanent one-party 'unitary executive rule' if this man becomes a Supreme Court Justice. If I'm going to wind up behind barbed wire in a re-education camp somewhere in Nevada, I don't want to look back on this and think, "Gee, maybe if I'd done more to stop this, it would've been different." What can be done must be done. Whether or not it will be enough.

3. You do not get to choose whether you win or lose. All you can choose is the fight. I know they say, pick your battles. Well, this is the only battle going where we have a shot. Not a lock, but a shot. Take the shot. What have we got to lose? We're all already in the NSA database.

So the cloture vote is set for Monday. So basically, we've got Friday. Well, in the immortal words of Edmund Blackadder, "Twenty-four hours is a long time in politics."

Go go go,

The Plaid Adder

[fooj]

1. NGU! Never!

Peace.

[Higans]

22. Do they count the votes for SC Nominies with Die Bold machines?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

2. Kicked and Recommended...

GO DU'ers! I will spontaneously combust if I see one more fucking thread saying that we are dead.

:grr::grr::grr::grr:

[Marnieworld]

3. You bet your ass!

NGU!

It's not over until it's over.
:patriot:

[doublethink]

4. Never Ever Give Up Never Ever Surrender.

K&R Peace. :kick: :)

note: Fight, get busy.

[suffragette]

5. I'd rather fight tooth and nail to try to get this done

than know that we could have at least tried, but we gave up with nothing more than a whimper.

I'm with you Plaid Adder.

[stopbush]

6. You're right. Alito is "the end game" for bushco.

Once he's in, everything they do or wish to do is legal, including shredding the Constitution, disbanding Congress and rounding us all up for re-education.

Why don't Dems in DC get that?

[Angry Girl]

14. The Dominionists are laughing at us.

Alito was born in 1950, which means he'll be around for decades. Like Roberts, he's a member of the Federalist Society.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/11/2/112357.shtml

Conservative legal group's clout growing
(on the Federalist Society)
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/12158910.htm

Secret and Ties
GOP Leaders' Pledge Loyalty to the Religious Right's Agenda at Secret Meetings with the Family Research Council and the Council for National Policy
A MUST READ!
http://www.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=59

The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party
Great site.
A public information project from TheocracyWatch.org
http://www.theocracywatch.org

Articles On the Rise of Dominionism in America
Excellent articles, and not just on dominionism
The Yurica Report
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/DirectoryRiseOfDominionismInAmerica.html

GOD AND COUNTRY
A college that trains young Christians to be politicians.
by HANNA ROSIN - The New Yorker, Issue 2005-06-27
In case you still didn't think it was calculated.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050627fa_fact

Have a nice day.... :cry:

[AntiFascist]

23. Your third link is very important....

and provides a lot of important background information on how the Council for National Policy controls the Republican Party. Another important member of the CNP is the wealthy Howard Ahmanson who has funded both Diebold and ES&S electronic voting machine manufacturers:

http://cleveland.indymedia.org/print.php?id=15868

[Blue Belle]

32. This should be pinned at the top of the Alito page.

:scared:

[converted_democrat]

7. You're absolutely correct.. It isn't over yet, and if they win this

it will be one party rule from here on out.. I just hope we pull this one off. This is a very important battle, and we can't give up yet..

[Angry Girl]

8. If you DO NOTHING, your daughter may need a wire coat hanger some day

24 hours. Pick up the phone.

[RazzleDazzle]

10. If you do NOTHING, we may have a de facto dictatorship on our hands

someday -- soon, like as soon as he's seated.

Alito Confirmation ----------> Full-Blown Dictatorship
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2367335




NYT weighs in (also called for filibuster in a later editoria):

Editorial
Judge Alito's Radical Views
Published: January 23, 2006
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/23/opinion/23mon1.html

If Judge Samuel Alito Jr.'s confirmation hearings lacked drama, apart from his wife's bizarrely over-covered crying jag, it is because they confirmed the obvious. Judge Alito is exactly the kind of legal thinker President Bush wants on the Supreme Court. He has a radically broad view of the president's power, and a radically narrow view of Congress's power. He has long argued that the Constitution does not protect abortion rights. He wants to reduce the rights and liberties of ordinary Americans, and has a history of tilting the scales of justice against the little guy.

.....(more).......

discussed here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x213484

[Gelliebeans]

9. The way I look at it

If you wanna whine be my guest but get the hell out of the way cause there is work to be done.

[Nordmadr]

11. Lead Senator Kerry. Lead. N/T

[Nutmegger]

12. JK stuck his neck out for us, I'm so proud of his courage

We can't give up on him and the filibuster. We CAN do this.

I'm getting on the telephone when I get back to the house.

We can do this!:bounce:

[radio4progressives]

13. K&R

:kick: :applause:

[pat_k]

15. Hey, remember how the Repub "We have the votes" mantra worked out on Bolto

. . .Bolton?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/26/AR2005052601910_pf.html

[spuddonna]

16. Amen!!! n/t K&R

[lies and propaganda]

17. You always put it perfectly.

I made my calls to Landrieu and Chaffee today.

Mary should be running toward anything that could fuck up King George; just as much as he is her state.

[samhsarah]

18. You got it!!!

[understandinglife]

19. NGU & Recommended.

Peace.

[Patsy Stone]

20. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor???

Hell no! And it ain't over now!

K&R.

A perfect post as usual.

[wryter2000]

29. Ooops

That was the Japanese, but I second your sentiment. :hi:

[Patsy Stone]

30. Um... Have you ever seen Animal House?

It's the Germans. :hi: :)

[Blue Belle]

31. Why do people NOT get that??

That movie is a classic and should be required viewing... if anything just for the comedic prowess of John Belushi.

[Patsy Stone]

33. Amen!

And thanks for just being you.

[wryter2000]

37. LOL

I haven't seen it for a long time. I've been remiss. :evilgrin:

[fooj]

21. NGU fighting for our democracy!

Peace.

[proud_Kucitizen]

24. Just wanted to add my e-mail to Byrd

I realize I am not one of Senator Byrd's constituents but in my state I have no representation in the Senate. I have come to respect Senator Byrd and was considering donating to his reelection campaign which by default should make my opinions important to him.

I am deeply concerned about the Alito nomination. Not because he may overturn Roe vs Wade, that is the least of our concerns at this point in time. I oppose Alito because as I understand it, he is for giving more power to the executive branch and has shown contempt for Congress as a governing body. This is something our country just can't afford given President Bush's current power grab. I'm afraid that replacing a moderate with this nominee will only further the GOP's arrogance toward Democratic members such as myself.

Please consider voting for a filibuster and thus forcing the Republicans to change the rules of Congress if they so wish because a majority of Americans don't support the Nuclear Option.

[Triana]

25. thank you - what i've been sayin....

...only you said it better!

[scarletwoman]

26. K & R -- This is the message the naysayers need to hear! (nt)

[katinmn]

27. A battle worth fighting, even if the odds are against us

:dem:

[wryter2000]

28. Pick your battles

I don't have any problem with people who tell me to pick my battles. This is the one I pick.

[carl_pwccaman]

40. But who are you hoping to change?

It seems to me that if there aren't enough votes, mainly because it will go mostly along party lines, and because not every democrat is lockstep (i.e., the Democratic party does have some independent thinkers)...

What will a fillibuster accomplish?

IF you can convince some of the democrats who in their independent assessment don't see a problem, to consider voting as a block with Democrats, then great, try it. But you can't seriously expect to punish a democrat or two who happen to think independently from time to time, I mean, this isn't the Republican party, or at least, it SHOULDN't be so lockstep...

So what would a fillibuster accomplish? Who would it rally or win over? Would it win over some independents, some disenfranchised former Bush supporters? Some moderates who otherwise might not vote or who might vote republican?

Or is it just meant to be an empty jesture to people who are so angry at Bush and the repubs that they will vote hard line democrat in the next election regardless? That would just be appearances, in that case, wouldn't it? And there wouldn't even be a benefit, would there?

Vote AGAINST alito, please. Argue coherently to Byrd and others, argue coherently to potential moderate republicans, sure. Try to defeat him that way, that would be the best political strategy.

I cannot guess what the benefit of filibuster would be.

IF there is a positive strategic benefit (whether it stops alito or simply has some other positive effect that outweighs the negatives), then great, but such questions are apparently beyond me anyhow, I'm not sure how such games are really played, or how such games work or will tend to play out, maybe I'd guess it would be counterproductive and yet it works somehow.

But it doesn't seem productive to me in any meaningful sense.

Aren't there moderates, independents, swingers, who can be appealed to, so that filibuster can be avoided? That would be ideal, I would think.

If I'm wrong, then fine. I'd like to see more disenchantment with the republicans, more support for alternatives to the republicans, and defeat of alito, general support for criticism and defeat of many republican efforts. IF that can be furthered, or will be furthered, by filibusters or protests or lobying or what have you, great.

But if there is a backfire, can we learn from it and consider better strategies?

I just want things to be strategic and effective, and for the culture in America to improve, to be more sustaining of the constitution and its principles. Alito doesn't help that, but I'm not sure the reaction to a filibuster would help that either, and it looks like there won't be enough votes for a filibuster anyhow.

So how about attempting to get more 'no' votes on Alito, and building a better case.

It seems to me that Lieberman made the better case, that generally there were too many doubts about the nature of civil rights and individual freedom, given Alito's philosophy.

I think the unitary executive thing is an ambiguous and potentially harmful philosophy, but other aspects of his philosophy are more cause for doubt. It is possible that unitary executive simply means that the aspects of the government that are already under the president's cabinet authority, the executive agencies already under the president, are more in line with the president, and not divided against the executive. I like the idea of some beurocracy and checks and proceedures that can hinder mistakes and errors and illegality that the executive might engage in, so slowing down the executive serves a function, I wouldn't want things TOO smoothe for any branch, as a matter of constitutional principle, and yet, the president is constitutionally the actual head of the federal executive branch, so paying serious attention to that, to make things more effective/efficient, isn't necessarily bad, provided there is sufficient oversight by the judicial and legislative, etc. I'd emphasize more the problem that Alito seems to think that prepubescent girls can be strip searched by police men, the kind of reckless disregard for privacy concerns and authoritarian tendencies regarding law and order maybe, that would be easier to fight over, I'd think.

Just some thoughts.

Keep fighting the good fight, everyone. I'm just confused about what would be the best strategy, thesedays. Maybe we all are. Maybe we'll get lucky or have insight or happen to do our best and get somewhere. But some serious thought and caution are our friends, I think.

[AzDar]

34. I can't afford to give up..I have two little boys who need to grow up

in the U.S. that existed BEFORE the 2000 coup.
NGU

[Coexist]

35. Let's keep working...

[earth mom]

36. K & R! Never Give Up! eom

[mom cat]

38. If we give up, we are sure to lose. If we fight like hell, we may score an

upset!

[Nothing Without Hope]

39. I absolutely agree. This Toles CARTOON sums it up, though it's actually

much worse than "just" this with the despicable Alito. I've included this in my faxes to senators:

[MsMagnificent]

41. Thank you, Plaid Adder

for your exhortation to fight against complacency (something which many in the Democratic Party seem badly infected with)
Why do they give up before they even try?

'It's not if you won or lost, but how you played the game'

[Surya Gayatri]

42. Thanks for the morale booster

for all of us troops out here in the cyberspace trenches, Plaid! SG

:patriot:


edit: K & R

[Paradise]

43. Isn't this the precise scenario our founders had in "filibuster-mind"? n/t

[drm604]

44. Abso-f*ckin-lutely!

From what I've seen, many of them are saying that they don't want to fight a losing battle. Can there be a more self-defeating mindset? If everyone who feels that way would fight anyway it may no longer be a losing battle! Why can't they see that? We have to keep changing minds. If this attitude is truly what's stopping them then changing even a few may have a domino effect as others begin to see that it might NOT be a losing battle. The more that come on board, the more will follow!