I really want to be on Kerry's side in this. But looking at his comments...

[Bucky]

I jsut now heard about this--I work pretty long hours these days. My understanding is that in front of a bunch of college students he said:

"You study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Is this a substantive thing? No. It was a cute punchline playing on old stereotypes (my understanding is that armed services veterans actually tend to have slightly above average intelligence). Does it present a good reason why a swingable voter might stay in the pro-Bush camp? No. Will this comment ultimately matter a week from now? I tend to think not. Bush & his crew raising a stink about this is a bit of just grasping for straws before they take a big tumble next Tuesday.

But at the same time, I'm a little surprised that Kerry would say something this, well, stupid. A veteran politician has to know that every comment he makes is potentially part of the public record. Whatever he says he meant by that, he has to understand what it will appear to be to the public. In time of war you're supposed to honor the troops, not use them for a punchline.

I know Kerry is now saying that he meant Bush was the not-smart party "stuck in Iraq" but that seems to be as big a stretch as Cheney claiming "give 'em a dunk" means anything besides waterboarding. Kerry made a valient effort here:

"As a combat veteran, I know the dedication, integrity, and commitment of American troops. I've lived it. Had George Bush and Dick Cheney been in combat one minute of their comfortable lives they would never have sent American troops to war without body armor or without a plan to win the peace and they wouldn't be exploiting our troops today.

"George Bush didn't do his homework when he ran from sound intelligence about Iraq. ... George Bush didn't do his homework when he ignored General Shinseki's advice to go to war with enough troops to maintain order. This entire administration didn't learn anything about telling the truth; otherwise they would have leveled with the American people that we are stuck in a civil war in Iraq today."

All of what he says in his clarification statement is true. But it's still back peddling and ass covering when our side should be on the offensive. I really want to be on Kerry's side on this, and more or less I am. But it was still a pretty dumb thing to say. I look foreward to Thursday, which will be the day whan this nonstory finally dies.

[durrrty libby]

1. Please get a grip and try thinking logically

Here is the joke in the thread below yours



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2534103


"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq." - Senator John Kerry



:hurts: :spank: :hangover: :argh: :grr: :nuke: :cry:

[Bucky]

I'll get a grip when you get a clue. Or to quote the link you sent me to...

"Mis-statement or not, you've just seen footage of the first negative ad in the '08 campaign, if Kerry runs."

from the webpage taht other thread referenced

[doc03]

14. Was the (us) in his joke? As " getting (us) stuck in a war in Iraq"

If it was I didn't catch it.

[htuttle]

2. Are you concerned and troubled?

[Bucky]

4. I think if you read my post you'll see I'm neither

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blackthorn]

5. Did you even bother to read the OPs entire post?

[Bluebear]

7. The OP says Kerry used the troops as a punchline. I read it. nt

[Bucky]

8. Since you can type, I figure you can read. So my question is why didn't you?

Yes, you're very good at typing phrases like "for fuck's sake" and "What's your excuse?"

What you're not showing any talent for is understanding a comment more complicated than "Grrr, Repugs R Nazis, Grrrr". If you're too stupid to distinguish between an attack on Kerry and an observation that his joke was dumb, maybe you ought to just ignore any comments more complicated than cheerleading grunts.

If you have a problem with criticizing Democrats, then way are you criticizing me?

[brentspeak]

10. Problem is, Kerry handed the Repubs an issue -- at the worst possible time

You and I know that he wasn't attacking the troops, but all that matters is that the Republicans can easily get the media to make it a huge news story. In fact, it looks like the Repubs already have -- it was fodder all over the news yesterday and last night.

If it's necessary, the right words from Kerry would quickly defuse this manufactured controversy.

[tuvor]

19. I think Kerry handed them a lemon, and they're trying to make lemonade.

[chat_noir]

23. make lemonade out of this, Bush

http://icasualties.org/oif/prdDetails.aspx?hndRef=10-2006



30-Oct-2006 3 | US: 3 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad (western part)
US NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad (south of) - Babil
US NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad (eastern part)
29-Oct-2006 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Lance Corporal Troy D. Nealey Al Anbar Province
27-Oct-2006 2 | US: 1 | UK: 1 | Other: 0
US Sergeant Luke J. Zimmerman Al Anbar Province
UK Lieutenant Tom Tanswell Shaibah (nr. Basra) - Basrah
26-Oct-2006 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US 1st Sergeant Ricky L. McGinnis Muqdadiyah (Died in Balad) - Diyala
25-Oct-2006 5 | US: 5 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Private 1st Class Donald S. Brown Al Anbar Province
US Sergeant Thomas M. Gilbert Al Anbar Province
US Private 1st Class Daniel B. Chaires Al Anbar Province
US Lance Corporal Jonathan B. Thornsberry Al Anbar Province
US Petty Officer 2nd Class Charles V. Komppa Al Anbar Province
23-Oct-2006 5 | US: 5 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US 1st Lieutenant Amos C. R Bock Baghdad (central part)
US Hospital Corpsman Charles O. Sare Al Anbar Province
US Lance Corporal Richard A. Buerstetta Fallujah - Anbar
US Lance Corporal Tyler R. Overstreet Fallujah - Anbar
US Specialist Carl A. Eason Baghdad (western part)
22-Oct-2006 5 | US: 5 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Specialist Nicholas K. Rogers Baghdad (southwest)
US Sergeant Willsun M. Mock Baghdad
US Specialist Matthew W. Creed Baghdad (west of)
US Specialist Nathaniel A. Aguirre Baghdad (west of)
US Major David G. Taylor Baghdad (western part)
21-Oct-2006 6 | US: 6 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Lance Corporal Eric W. Herzberg Al Anbar Province
US Sergeant 1st Class Tony L. Knier Bayji - Salah ad Din
US Corporal Joshua C. Watkins Ramadi (near) - Anbar
US Lance Corporal Nicholas J. Manoukian Ramadi (near) - Anbar
US Lance Corporal Nathan R. Elrod Ramadi (near) - Anbar
US Lance Corporal Clifford R. Collinsworth Ramadi (near) - Anbar
20-Oct-2006 2 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 1
SAL Captain José Argelio Soto Ochoa Al Kut - Wasit
US Staff Sergeant Kevin M. Witte Baghdad (southwest of)
19-Oct-2006 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Lance Corporal Edwardo Lopez Jr. Al Anbar Province
18-Oct-2006 4 | US: 4 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Staff Sergeant Patrick O. Barlow San Antonio, Texas
US Sergeant 1st Class Daniel A. Brozovich Ashraf - Diyala
US Jose R. Perez Ramadi - Anbar
US Staff Sergeant Jesus M. Montalvo Baghdad (south of)
17-Oct-2006 11 | US: 11 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Specialist Daniel W. Winegeart Baghdad
US Staff Sergeant Ronald L. Paulsen Tarmiya - Salah ad Din
US Specialist Joseph C. Dumas Jr. Baghdad (near Abu Ghraib prison)
US Corporal David M. Unger Baghdad (near Abu Ghraib prison)
US Corporal Russell G. Culbertson III Baghdad (near Abu Ghraib prison)
US 2nd Lieutenant Christopher E. Loudon Baghdad (near Abu Ghraib prison)
US Staff Sergeant Ryan E. Haupt Ba'qubah - Diyala
US Sergeant Norman R. Taylor III Ba'qubah - Diyala
US Petty Officer 1st Class Nathan J. Frigo Ba'qubah - Diyala
US Staff Sergeant Garth D. Sizemore Baghdad (southern part)
US 2nd Lieutenant Joshua L. Booth Al Anbar Province
15-Oct-2006 7 | US: 7 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Sergeant Jr., Lester Domenico Baroncini Samarra - Salah Ad Din
US Private 1st Class Stephen Bicknell Samarra - Salah Ad Din
US 1st Lieutenant Joshua Deese Kirkuk - At-Ta'mim
US Sergeant Jonathan E. Lootens Kirkuk - At-Ta'mim
US Captain Mark C. Paine Taji - Baghdad
US Sergeant Brock A. Babb Al Anbar Province
US Lance Corporal Joshua M. Hines Al Anbar Province
14-Oct-2006 6 | US: 6 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Private 1st Class Keith J. Moore Baghdad
US 1st Sergeant Charles M. King Baghdad (south of)
US Staff Sergeant Joseph M. Kane Baghdad (south of)
US Specialist Timothy J. Lauer Baghdad (south of)
US Sergeant Jonathan J. Simpson Al Taqaddum - Anbar
US Airman 1st Class Leebenard E. Chavis Baghdad
13-Oct-2006 3 | US: 3 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Lieutenant Johnny K. Craver Baghdad
US Private 1st Class Kenny F. Stanton Jr. Baghdad (southwest of)
US Private 1st Class Thomas J. Hewett Walter Reed Medical Ctr. - Baghdad
12-Oct-2006 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Sergeant Gene A. Hawkins Mosul - Ninawa
11-Oct-2006 3 | US: 3 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Sergeant Justin T. Walsh National Naval Medical Center, Bethesda - Anbar
US Captain Shane T. Adcock Hawijah - At-Ta'mim
US Sergeant Nicholas R. Sowinski Baghdad (central part)
09-Oct-2006 4 | US: 4 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Private 1st Class Shelby J. Feniello Ramadi - Anbar
US Lance Corporal Jon Eric Bowman Ramadi - Anbar
US Private 1st Class Phillip B. Williams Baghdad (eastern part)
US Sergeant Julian M. Arechaga Ramadi - Anbar
08-Oct-2006 6 | US: 6 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Lance Corporal Derek W. Jones Al Asad - Anbar
US Captain Robert M. Secher Al Asad - Anbar
US Private 1st Class Shane R. Austin Ramadi - Anbar
US Lance Corporal Stephen F. Johnson Saqlawiyah - Anbar
US Lance Corporal Jeremy Scott Sandvick Monroe Al Asad - Anbar
US Specialist Timothy Fulkerson Tikrit - Salah ad Din
07-Oct-2006 4 | US: 4 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Specialist John Edward Wood Baghdad
US Sergeant Lawrence Parrish Baghdad
US Corporal Carl W. Johnson II Mosul - Ninawa
US Sergeant Brandon S. Asbury Baghdad (northwest of)
06-Oct-2006 4 | US: 3 | UK: 0 | Other: 1
US Lance Corporal John Edward Hale Al Taqaddum - Anbar
US Corporal Bradford H. Payne Saqlawiyah - Anbar
US Corporal Nicholas A. Arvanitis Bayji (near) - Salah ad Din
DK Konstabel Martin Hjorth Basra - Basrah
04-Oct-2006 6 | US: 6 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Corporal Benjamin S. Rosales Rawah - Anbar
US Lance Corporal Edward M. Garvin Rawah - Anbar
US Staff Sergeant Christopher O. Moudry Taji - Baghdad
US Specialist George R. Obourn Jr. Taji - Baghdad
US Specialist Timothy Burke Taji - Baghdad
US Private 1st Class Dean Bright Taji - Baghdad
03-Oct-2006 2 | US: 2 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Staff Sergeant Jonathan Rojas Baghdad
US Staff Sergeant Daniel Isshak Tikrit - Salah ad Din
02-Oct-2006 9 | US: 8 | UK: 1 | Other: 0
US Sergeant Joseph W. Perry Muhallah - Babil
US Private 1st Class Michael K. Oremus Baghdad
US Specialist Justin R. Jarrett Taji - Baghdad
US Staff Sergeant James D. Ellis Taji - Baghdad
US Specialist Raymond S. Armijo Taji - Baghdad
US Specialist Kristofer C. Walker Taji - Baghdad
US Private 1st Class Satieon V. Greenlee Baghdad
US Staff Sergeant Joe A. Narvaez Baghdad
UK Lance Corporal Dennis Brady Basra - Basrah
01-Oct-2006 6 | US: 6 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Sergeant Denise A. Lannaman Arifjan, Kuwait
US Sergeant Mario Nelson Hit - Anbar
US Corporal Chase A. Haag Baghdad (west of)
US Captain Justin D. Peterson Al Anbar Province
US Lance Corporal Christopher B. Cosgrove III Fallujah - Anbar
US Corporal Aaron L. Seal Baghdadi - Anbar

[mduffy31]

6. .

:popcorn:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Let History Judge...

The Democrats had a fifteen point lead in the generic ballot immediately prior to Kerry's remarks...

If there's significant erosion between now and Tuesday his remarks were a failure... If the Dems increase their lead then his remarks were a success.

The ballot will be the final judge....

[Qanisqineq]

11. The unfortunate part

Everyone seems to be attacking you because of what Kerry actually said or what he meant. Unfortunately, what the average person is hearing is that Kerry said what you quoted above and not what he meant. Believe me, my husband (a huge liberal and a SOLDIER) came home from work over lunch and was pissed off at Kerry. BECAUSE HE HEARD WHAT YOU QUOTED. He knew that Kerry didn't actually mean that, but it sounded really bad.

We're overseas and the soldiers here hear a lot of FOX and Limbaugh. They will hear that Kerry called them idiots. I'm not saying they will believe it, but that's all they'll hear.

[Catherine Vincent]

12. Unfortunately Kerry forgot the single word of "us" and

the republicans were waiting on something like that from a Democrat and ran with it. With the help of the media, of course.

[GemMom]

13. There were audible

gasps and negative responses from the students. Unfortunately, this is or will become prime "sound bite" material for the opposition.

[DaveJ]

15. I will try to explain, my perspective of course....

Kerry intentionally deviated from the prepared speech. It was not an accident.

I have no problem believing soldiers are more intelligent, but this is not about intelligence, it is about an affinity to pursue academic education. There are a lot of highly intelligent people who are not interested in academic achievement.

The problem is, this administration is taking advantage of these people. It is a social problem. Democrats' are in the business of remedying such problems.

Kerry is saying what he believe and what we know to be true. It is not a stereotype. It's actually common sense. Those who are not interested in academics are more likely to join the military and end up serving Bush. Bush is taking advantage of these self sufficient leaders for what many believe to be his own personal gain.

As Democrats take control over the next 12 years we are going to have to get used to rhetoric like this.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Hmmm

"As Democrats take control over the next 12 years we are going to have to get used to rhetoric like this."


How are Democrats going to remedy the problem?


It seems they can make the military more egalitarian by requiring a draft or do away with the military. I don't think either are realistic solutions.

[DaveJ]

17. I think Kerry had a plan for some kind of social service...

You may know more than I know about this but I think he wanted basically everyone to do some kind of public service after high school. It is kind of like a draft but not necessarily into the military. I think it is his way of balancing the dichotomy between public service and academics. Maybe I'm wrong, I think I just heard it in one of his sound bites back in 2004.

Edit: Found a link...
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=115&subid=145&contentid=251707

[tuvor]

18. At worst, his joke was ambiguous.

And bush and co. disingenuously and sanctimoniously jumped all over one convenient interpretation of it--a whole day later, hoping enough of the USA is as stupid as we like to think bush is.

I don't see Kerry's explanation as a stretch at all. In fact, I'm chagrined that some people apparently had to have it the joke explained to them. Even I got it the first time.

I mean, c'mon...this is John Kerry. Are we really to believe that he's as apt to make fun of his brothers in arms as he is a miserable failure of a political opponent? I don't need george to try to answer that question for me.

[brentspeak]

20. The problem is that the media are only too happy to repeat the GOP's

talking points. Tonight, all they were doing was playing and replaying and replaying Kerry's statement, and printing the words out in quotations. It's disgraceful that the media could be so irresponsible, but that's the situation we're faced with. The sooner this manufactured controversy can be debunked in the mind of the average news watcher/radio listener, the better.

[tuvor]

21. FWIW, foxnews carried Kerry's 10 minute news conference today.

Yup, foxnews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGwc-9pmmbM&eurl=

[hlthe2b]

22. Why do you allow the Repugs to frame it for you, to think for you?

His entire statement is available--not just this one sentence. Before he said it, he was talking about Bush. The prepared text clearly states "like President Bush," even though Kerry forgot that phrase. But, what he DID say prior to this one line, clearly was referring to Bush. If you listened to his speech--or you read his transcript of the speech given, OR you read the prepared text, you would not be buying into this obvious Repug attempt to change the subject. :shrug:


Why are you so ready and willing to believe what the RW feeds us? How many times has this trick been pulled on us? It is almost as thought we keep experiencing deja vouj over and over and over and over and over again..

I don't mean to criticize you personally, but it is frustrating that so many of our own are buying into this RW setup....

[johnnie]

24. When I first heard Kerry's comment I knew he was talking about bush

And everyone in Washington knew he was talking about bush, including bush (Well, that can be debatable). What isn't helping is the Dems that are playing along with the republicans.

Everyone here should be backing Kerry on this instead of going along with the spin. If you like John Kerry or not, you don't have to be a genius to know what he was talking about and by going along with bush and pals, you are falling right in step with them.

"when our side should be on the offensive"... Exactly, so why are you on the defensive instead? This whole thing should be taken as what it is, John Kerry slamming bush, but not clarifying by spelling it out, and the republicans running with the knowledge that a lot of people are morons and will fall in line.

Kerry did nothing wrong and if you really think that he needs to apologize for people being idiots and expecting him to spell it out for you, then that's your problem.

[Ganja Ninja]

25. It would probably be a good idea for Senator Kerry to ...

sit down and STFU. We don't need the last week before the election to become about John Kerry. If all else fails he should check himself into rehab, anything that will get him out of the spotlight.

[bigtree]

26. sad that you would ignore his lifetime of support for the military

and for soldiers and veterans to bend his words into an insult of the same.

All of the sudden, after a lifetime of supporting the troops, Kerry is going to insult them in the middle of a campaign? I think folks are trying much too hard to put this man down. A lifetime of service to our country deserves better. It's unfortunate that some folks have put themselves so far above the senator, and are bending one sentence for their own political purposes. If anyone is using and abusing the troops it's the folks who are stretching to paint Kerry's words as an insult to the soldiers instead the insult to Bush as Kerry intended. The insult to the soldiers is pure invention. It's outrageous to hear the smear from Bush who refused to serve when it was his turn, and skipped off to work on his daddy's friend's political campaign while others fought and died in Vietnam. It's nothing less than incredible to hear the smear from Democrats professing concern for the party. They are allowing themselves to be used by the Rove political machine and they expect folks to follow them down. Some folks never learn . . . or, they just ask for it.