What the hell is with all the Kerry bashers?

[BlueStater]

I can't think of a time in recent memory where this website has been more annoying.

You people whine all the time about Kerry never sticking up for himself. And when he finally does you complain about that! This was probably the toughest I've ever seen Kerry and it's still not good enough for you people.

Kerry is out there campaigning all over the country for Democratic candidates and people on this forum rudely tell him to, not only shut up, but shut the FUCK up. The crowd he was talking to knew what he was talking about. It's not his fault if some people are too stupid to realize he was referring to the idiot president and not the troops.

John Kerry is a good man who is trying to make this country a better place and he does not deserve the silly attacks on him that he's been getting today. Shame on any of you who are buying this media and GOP bullshit.

[LSK]

1. they have always been here

[Baclava]

76. You should have seen the '04 primaries

The Dean team could tell you a story or two...

[Fleshdancer]

91. Primaries here are INSANE!

The mud was flying everywhere from almost every camp. That's when I discovered the DU lounge. :D

[Baclava]

100. That's true about The Lounge...it was s-c-a-r-y

You'd go and hide and poke your heads out when the coast looked clear.

Like hiding in the root cellar with grandpa till the big storm passed.

[tinfoil tiaras]

2. it's a bunch of freeper "concern trolls"

especially lately, acting like they know whats best for the democrats. It's the whole "dump Lieberman and the democrats will be screwed" thing all over again...:eyes:

[brentspeak]

43. No. Not this time out.

I've seen lots of concern trolls on DU, especially lately. But from what I can tell, the vast majority of people who've been pi$$ed off and pulling their hair out over this media distraction (I include myself in that category) are not concern trolls, but legitimate worried Democrats. We know how quickly and easily the Republicans can manipulate the media, and how successful that strategy has been for them in the past 15 years of so.

Like I said in another thread, with the right words, Kerry can defuse this manufactured controversy easily. Then the media will have to find another dog to chase.

[BlueStater]

52. Then blame the fucking media!!!

Not Kerry. Where is the logic in that?!

[Pawel K]

86. Its adult logic that wins elections

you only have a week. You can not afford this bullshit. What Kerry said was wrong. I'm sure he mispoke but that doesn't excuse the fact it was offensive. If the right wing weren't as good as they are with distraction this wouldn't be an issue, but the fact is they are extremely good at it.

To label democrats that see this as trolls or freepers is (and excuse my french) fucking idiotic and shows the state of denial some of you will stay in no matter what this party does.

We have less than a week to go before a huge election that if we lose will destroy this country, we can not afford what you are doing right now.

[sojourner]

89. I cannot for the life of me see what's wrong with his response. He stood up and said what he meant -

and refused to apologize -- for which I say BRAVO -- and he kicked ass while doing it. This "distraction" is an opportunity to show up the repugs for what they are: a bunch of whiny hypocrites and bullies.

[tinfoil tiaras]

101. I see where you're coming from

sorry if i offended you. :(

[Kagemusha]

3. He messed up.

He stood up for himself to defend his wounded ego after he messed up, loud and clear. He's doing the right thing for a stupid reason and it's not helping anyone. My consolation is that he's not up for election and the media's thumb-twiddling aside, it's pretty hard to see how he will distract much from Bush's spectacular failures.

But he messed up, and rather than admit it and move on, he chose to make it all about him. And people whined about Obama. Christ.

[WildEyedLiberal]

5. please

Take this shit somewhere else... first he's a "coward" for "not responding" to the Swiftboaters and now it's "all about him" because he DOES fight back against Swiftboating?

Why not just admit that you'd be out gunning for him NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS OR DOES and spare us the tortured logic and pathetic excuses?

[Kagemusha]

10. Because it's not true?

Mainly because of that.

[Bake]

98. False dichotomy

(a) We rightly thrash Kerry for failing to stand up to the swiftliars.

(b) We're not (at least I'm not) bashing him for RESPONDING, i.e., fighting back, in this instance -- hell, I'm glad he's responding. We're upset that he stepped in it IN THE FIRST PLACE, to where he HAD to respond!

There is a difference. I hope it's not too subtle for you.

Bake

[ClassWarrior]

6. Thank you for your concern.

:rofl:

NGU.

[brentspeak]

26. Wrong

Poster made a valid point, without any trace of your alleged "concern".

[ClassWarrior]

38. Thanks for your concern too.

NGU.

[jobycom]

7. How?

[BlueStater]

Uh, it WAS about him

He was the one being smeared by all those dumbasses. No one else.

What, pray tell, did you want from him? Apologize for something he never said? Yeah, I can see how that would help. :eyes:

[Kagemusha]

19. Why can't he say he misspoke and apologize for the misimpression?

Because Republicans don't have to so why should he? Uh, the smart Republicans say just that no matter how transparently false it is that they're sorry.

But it seems unwise for me to say anything further. Those who declare any respondent MUST be a Freeper aren't doing much to encourage an honest reply so my honest reply isn't being well received by anyone. I apologize if anyone was offended by my comment that Kerry messed up; I in no way meant to convey that I wish him to apologize for something he never said, only for something he, by accident, did.

I don't know why Kerry can't do what I just did, but whatever.

[BlueStater]

28. He didn't misspoke

That's media bullshit. His comments did not receive any coverage until the next day. Doesn't seem like anyone in the audience he was speaking to thought he said anything wrong.

[ClassWarrior]

30. Why can't the Rape-Publicans say they misheard...

...and apologize for destroying our fucking country?

:shrug:

NGU.

[Straight Shooter]

14. He chose to make it all about him?

Whoa, Kimosabe. Take a step back. The right wing made it all about him. They attacked him, looking for a straw to clutch while they're drowning in their stinking pile of sewage.

Even bush had to hop onto the pile-on, try to make himself look like a big, big man.

Tempest in a teapot. Kerry fumbles one phrase, noise machine springs into action, like they were just ........... waiting, for this moment.

[Kagemusha]

23. ...You did read his press release, right?

Pour water on fires, not gasoline. And that's the last I'll say on this I think.

[Straight Shooter]

27. Yes, I read it.

Bottom line, he didn't pick this fight. The right wing did.

Have you never flubbed a joke or an anecdote you've told many times? That's all Kerry did. Jeez, you would have thought he'd shot a man in the face or something, judging by the reaction.

[WildEyedLiberal]

35. "You'd think he'd shot a man in the face"

Nah, if he'd shot a man in the face, THEY would have apologized for inconveniencing HIM.

:rofl:

[still_one]

21. I really don't see how he messed up

I guess people cannot TAKE THE TRUTH

The majority of people who enlist in the Army today , do so because they can't go to college. This is due to several reasons:

Financial
Grades
economy

I also believe that this issue may focus on what this administration, along with the republican congress has done, by attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, not giving them the equipment to fight it, and responsible for the deaths of over 2800 Americans, and over 100000 Iraqiis

It is bush and company that should appologize

[LittleClarkie]

74. He didn't spend hardly any time defending himself

He just got right back on message. I was proud of him.

[jobycom]

4. Any real Democrats doing that, or just the "I'm really worried about Kerry" style

Freeper invaders? Frankly, I can't imaging a real Dem falling for the Repub BS on this, but that's me. I like to think Dems are smarter than average, even though I get proven wrong from time to time.

[NoodleyAppendage]

15. Dems are also smart enough to think for themselves and not in lockstep.

Believe it or not, but there are very good Dems who do not care for Kerry. This doesn't make them Freepers.

J

[BlueStater]

22. Then you're using this incident as simply an excuse to bash Kerry n/t

[NoodleyAppendage]

29. No. I'm using it a prima facie evidence that he's not 2008 material.

Kerry stepped in it and only reaffirms my suspicions that he's a losing bet in 2008. It's encouraging that he came out swinging, which helps him politically, but simultaneously hurts all Dems in 2006 by sucking the oxygen out of the election news cycle.

J

[BlueStater]

36. He didn't "step in it"

No one at the rally he was at thought he said anything wrong. The assholes in the media are deliberately lying about this and we can't let them get away with it.

[NoodleyAppendage]

44. That doesn't change the reality of the situation.

We ALL know that the media distorts the message. Kerry should be cognizant of this, as should any other Dem politican. Knowing what we're up against means that we have to be doubly careful not to give the MSM fodder with which to distort our message. ANY verbal fuck up is going to be distorted.

J

[jobycom]

37. Well, you convinced me with that argument, but not about Kerry. nt

[blm]

63. And the Dem who is immune to editting rooms and the RW spin cycle is............. ???

.

[Bridget Burke]

79. So--you admit that you already disliked Kerry..

Somehow, I'm not surprised.

[sojourner]

90. Then why get yourself stuck in this? What he has done is show a spine and it's about goddam time IMO

If you want to talk 2008, then that's a different matter. Right now, dems, all dems, need our support. We need to kick the assholes in congress out. then we can talk about the white house.

[jobycom]

32. How is that relevant to what I said?

I'm talking about BushCo's smear attempts on Kerry's comments, not about Kerry's candidacy for anything or about Kerry himself. Anyone bashing Kerry over this, in my mind they aren't very good Democrats.

[NoodleyAppendage]

41. Not liking Kerry and being a good Dem are NOT mutually exclusive.

I like Feingold, Gore, Clark, and Biden. Am I being a good or bad Dem for having a preference for these individuals over Kerry or Hillary?

J

[WildEyedLiberal]

42. You're not a good Dem because you're joining a GOP attack on a Dem

That's beyond craven and pathetic.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Puglover]

84. I could not have said it any better Wild!

:toast:

[jobycom]

93. That was my point, but it seems to have been wasted on its target.

Thanks for making it better than I did. :hi:

[jobycom]

92. Again, you didn't read what I wrote.

So I'm not going to bother repeating.

[still_one]

8. I have not read any of the posts you are referring to

but from what you are relating, people, especially on DU should NOT bash Kerry on this

However, I can tell you that I wish Kerry was as tough in the campaign in 2004, as he is now, and throughout the past year.

It is ridiculous to bash Kerry for standing up to these thugs. I just wish he would have stood up to them when they swift boated him

[Disturbed]

11. The anti Kerry posts are either RW trolls or Dem dolts.

I am disgusted by how many Dems are buying into the RWing spin on his statement. They know damn well that he was referring to Busholini not the troops.

[Swamp Rat]

20. LOL! ... "Dem dolts"

:D

Demodolts!

Scaredy Dems!

[Straight Shooter]

31. Swamp Rat, that pic is going to give me nightmares.

:scared:

[still_one]

34. It won't matter

Over 2800 parents, spouses, and siblings have lost someone because of bush's war, and over 20000 Americans have been wounded for life, and that doesn't even count what we have done to the Iraqis

Except for the neocons, people now know the disaster that this administration has got us into

Kerry is right, it is the bush administration that should be apologizing

[WildEyedLiberal]

9. There are three groups

A) Disgruntled bitter angry Dems who never got over 2004 because he beat their personal hero in the primary;

B) Backstabbing conniving DLC-types who want to shiv him in the back to get him out of the way of their preferred 2008 candidate;

C) Freeper concern trolls

[ProSense]

25. You for got

Poland!

:rofl: :rofl:

[NoodleyAppendage]

12. Oh, I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with his verbal gaff before an election?

Kerry is judged by his actions. He fucked up. Plain and simple, and for that he is not going to get kudos from this Dem.

J

[BlueStater]

16. He did not fuck up

He made those comments on Monday and only now the media and GOP are whining about it. They're trying to smear him and you're falling for it, my friend.

[NoodleyAppendage]

33. He fucked up. You know it. I know it. We all know it.

The real question is how is he going to handle his verbal gaff in a manner that saves face while preventing further focus upon himself in the week before a MAJOR mid-term election.

J

[WildEyedLiberal]

39. No "we" don't "all know it"

The only people I see who "know it" are trolls and/or serial Kerry bashers.

[NoodleyAppendage]

48. He provided a gaff that left an opening for distortion. That is a screw up.

I know the serial Kerry zombies will excuse any action, but please don't let political reality disturb your pleasant delusions.

J

[Pawel K]

85. You are in denial

Nobody is disputing the right wing was looking for anything to their avdvantage. The point is the way Kerry said it sounded like if you aren't smart you will have to join the army. Did he mean that? I'm sure he didn't. But that is exactly what he said and now the right finally has something going for them. He needs to apologize. Bush does too, but Kerry needs to be the bigger man and make this stupid thing go away by doing the right thing and saying he was wrong. Simple as that.

[BlueStater]

40. Didn't he just hold a press conferance today explaining to the ignorant...

...what he meant?

[NoodleyAppendage]

51. Yes. And, I commend his forceful replies to the attacks, but...

there wouldn't have even been a need for a press conference if he had just gotten the joke correct in the first place.

J

[BlueStater]

53. He did get the joke correct

The scumbag media and GOP are lying about what he said.

Look, they'll find a way to lie about anything he says or does. Blaming Kerry for this is unfair.

[submariner801]

75. You Are 100% Correct

I have listened to a majority of the GOP friendly radio stations and the snippets of Sen. Kerry's speech in front of this college audience and see no other explanation than spin tactics being used by the Bush Administration and the GOP friendly radio jockeys.

What Kerry said makes sense to a Navy Veteran like myself and here's why:

As a former enlisted service member, I joined the military without a college degree like most enlisted service men and women do today. This type of enlistment is non-commissioned and that's because I had no college degree when I volunteered for military service. If I had a college degree and education like the one Senator Kerry talks about in his speech to these college students then I would have been a commissioned officer. As a commissioned officer, I would have been someone who delegated orders to the many enlisted service men and women who serve on the front line.

So, in simple layman's language, Senator Kerry was right in saying that you have to get educated or you'll be stuck in Iraq. (ie. as an enlisted service member)

I didn't take that statement as a snub to all the troops intelligence because I know the difference between enlisted service and commissioned service in the military as does Senator Kerry, those who served, and those serving in the military today.

NOTE TO SENATOR KERRY:

Please back up your statement with this simple analogy and explain the enlisted and commissioned comparison to justify your words because those who never served and some who did serve need this explanation very badly now.


I hope this helps all!!!

Bush included:)

[BurtWorm]

13. I think we've spent enough wasted time worrying over Rove's manufactured

nonissue. But what do I know? :shrug:

[tblue]

17. I'll be honest. My first reaction was, Sh*t, why now, Senator?! Then when I heard his

press conference, everything came clear to me. What we're witnessing is the GOP taking a last desperate gasp for survival. They are desperate and afraid. So they will take anything any Dem says and spin it into an assault on something the most reactionary faction of their base considers sacred: either the 'troops' or the institution of marriage or sweet baby Jesus.

Trust me, they don't even believe it themselves. They are just hoping to reengage those who got turned off by Foleygate. I seriously doubt this comment by a Senator WHO IS NOT EVEN RUNNING this year, will change anyone's vote, period.

[puerco-bellies]

18. Amen Brother.

Kerry should keep on swinging. So F'in what they don't all land. Fire, fire for effect.

[BlooInBloo]

24. It's the fearful, cowardly wing of the party....

... whenever a wind that isn't 100% happyhappyjoyjoy blows, whenever a little bit of thought, courage, and perseverance is required, they run screaming with the other chicken littles.

[w4rma]

46. Exactly. And it's that wing that is always wrong. And they are wrong again this time.

Many people do join the military because they have no other options open.

That is a fact.

Many people don't. And even the way his statement was made didn't say that everyone who joins the military wasn't able to make it through school. It came from the other direction: Folks who can't make it through school often have the military has their only option.

That is a fact of life in every nation in the world.

He has restated his support for our troops. He has recomplemented them. He is a decorated veteran (and therefore a former "troop") himself. Bush has never served in combat, nor have the vast majority of the Rethugs in Congress. He has also restated how pissed off he is that the Republican leadership is pissing away our honorable troops to try to keep their Republican majority.

[NoodleyAppendage]

57. Maybe some are part of the thoughtful politically calculating/media savvy wing?

If Kerry weren't so politically "ham handed," I would have no problems with him.

We are up against a coordinated well-oiled media distortion campaign and complicit corporate media. Our message will ALWAYS be drowned out unless we (and our politicans) get much better at crafting our materials and fighting on their turf.

Seven days before a MAJOR mid-term election is NOT the time for ANY politican (particularly those of high profile) to say anything that could be easily distorted. I know Kerry doesn't hate our troops or think that they are stupid, but he fucked up because he provided the Repukes and the corporate media with video that makes it appear that he does think they are stupid.

The majority of Americans do not care to look further into nuiance or context and only see and hear what the MSM spoon feeds them.

We must be smarter and more careful if we ever hope to overcome the spin.

J

[BlooInBloo]

69. mmmm... nope.

[upi402]

45. Kerry let the media put Iraq front & center before the election

Ed Schultz made that point and I agree.
Rachel Maddow said he needed to show passion. I always agree with her, but understand that he is a reasoned statesman. I don't want a statesman to act like our Presitardent.

Kerry can be criticized for NAFTA, not windmilling fists after Ohio, and maybe for saying an uncomfortable and taboo truth. But he has done well here. This is a positive and the Rethug worm will turn here.

[w4rma]

47. Agreed. (nt)

[Darkhawk32]

50. I'm sick of people bashing an extremely good Democrat. n/t

[T Town Jake]

54. Ah. I see you've never lived through a DU primary war...

...the piddling little things being said about John Kerry on DU these days is nothing compared to what was being said about him on this website by posters in good standing back during the '04 primaries. Or any of his Democratic opponents in that primary by others, to be sure.

Look, we're Democrats, not lock-step freepii bots. We argue about our political folks, and what those folks do in public: you need to ease up.

No one here is buying the GOP "spin" on it, BTW, and it would be really be quite nice if you would quit implying so, and converse with your peers at DU in a civil manner.

Thanks.

[BlueStater]

55. I don't need to ease up

This is a ridiculous, unfair thing to criticize him for. And I can't stand by and just let it happen.

I'm not a fan of Dick Gephardt but I defended him against what I though were completely unreasonable attacks on his character after he apologized for voting for the Iraq war last year.

[T Town Jake]

59. Yes, you do need to ease up. Just because you are unable to recognize...

...that basic fact about how to conduct a civil discussion here at DU with your colleagues and peers is not my problem.

Good day to you, sir/ma'am.

[BlueStater]

61. So you're saying comments like...

..."Kerry should shut the fuck up" are civil?

[T Town Jake]

65. Ah, love the "so you're saying" Strawman, and other logical fallacies...

...Crank out some more cliched triteness to make your "points," please...(snicker)...

[BlueStater]

66. Sounds like the only one who's being uncivil is you

Unless you think being a smartass is civil.

[T Town Jake]

68. Sounds like "teen spirit" to me....and the inevitable weeping, wailing, & gnashing of teeth...

...that nearly always accompanies such phenomenons.

Tell us: are you in profound state of existential angst at this very moment? Inquiring minds would sure like to know.... :rofl:

[distantearlywarning]

81. Interesting.

It's interesting how the poster calling others uncivil posts the most mean-spirited things. I don't even know what your viewpoint is on the Kerry thing, and frankly I don't care much. It's not the most important issue in my life right now.

But I do think you came across as hypocritical in this little exchange with the OP. This is why flame wars get started, not because of a difference of opinion. These kinds of posts - sarcastic, attacking character by implying the poster has a young mentality ("smells like teen spirit" - that's one I hadn't seen before), implying the poster is stupid, misinformed, racist, a freeper, whatever - that's what starts flame wars and divides DU into a squabbling mess seven days before a midterm election. People want to know what's wrong with DU, well, it's this post right here and every other one like it. Can't you tell him he's wrong without laughing at him and implying he's immature? If you can't, maybe your arguments aren't good enough.

He came off better than you, too, because he was mature enough (despite his "existential angst") not to reply to your flamebait.

Just my opinion...

[Lexingtonian]

56. the Deanite reprobates will never forgive him

He can do no right in their eyes because he's courageous where they're chickenshit, and cautious where they're looking for a melee.

He's liberal where they're conservative, and conservative-ish where they're unrestrained by responsibility or reason.

There's no peace between the two sides now or for a couple more years.

[earth mom]

58. I'm just catching up on all the threads...BUT

anyone who is criticizing Kerry for speaking up against those bastards has to be a full on freeper! :grr:

I say this as someone who was royally pissed when Kerry did not fight back when the '04 election was stolen. I waited and waited and waited and bitched and complained for him to DO or SAY SOMETHING and finally just gave up on him as another kiss ass like most of the rest of em. That he's finally KICKING ASS gives me hope. And may it continue because this is exactly what is needed to kick the criminals to the curb! :woohoo:

[Tarcat1]

60. Kerry put his foot in his mouth.

Kerry put his foot in his mouth. There is no getting around this. We all know what he meant but it is hard to see people not taking this out of context. Kerry has been in politics long enough to know that any statement like this will be spun and used against him. Given how efficent the right wing spin machine is you can't be handing them golden material like this. It was a really dumb statement and shows just how tone-deaf he is. He was a poor candidate in 2004 and I really don't want to see him at the head of the ticket in 2008.

[blm]

62. So name the superDem who would never misspeak or be lied about by the RW

machine.

Do you think the most eloquent people in history would not have their words editted and taken out of context at will by BushInc?

[sandnsea]

67. Who you shilling for?

You've obviously shown up for the benefit of some other candidate. Care to own it - or will we just have to figure it out in a week or two.

[Lars39]

70. lol

Direct and to the point! :thumbsup:

[Erika]

73. The right wing spin can be seen through by kindergartners

How old are you?

[wicket]

88. BULLSHIT!!!

[The Magistrate]

95. You Make A Sound Point, Mr. Tarcat

When people speak in a public arena, they must be aware of all possible interpretations that could be put on their words, not just the one they intended to convey. Knowing this is as essential item of the politician's trade in particular. Sen. Kerry essayed a joke, a not particularly good joke, and muffed the delivery of it. In doing so, he handed the enemy an opportunity it would be better if the enemy had not got. It is, though, not a thing of great importance. The public mood in this election is the result of a deep disenchantment that has grown up over several years, and the wave is not going to be altered by the froth on its surface.

"Comedy is best left to professionals."

[RiverStone]

64. Bashing Kerry only feeds Carl Rove's agenda...

...we argue, he smiles. Time to stop. Much bigger fish to fry over the next 7 days then the Kerry debate. We are going to win; lets win BIG, OK friends.:pals:

[johnnydrama]

71. name the dem

Name another democrat who has been out there for more democratic candidates this year then John Kerry.

People seem to forget where he was speaking. At an event with Phil Angelides, nominee for California governor.

And a nominee way behind.

And yet still there is John Kerry speaking out for Angelides, and he's been there for tons of democrats.

Who is one of the only big democrats to campaign for Ned Lamont?

Maybe John should do the Today show or something, and explain that he left out the key words, and it's a
joke he's told before. If they have video or audio of him telling it before, even better.

But it's pretty ridiculous to call Kerry out for what was obviously just a slip of the tongue, and everybody
knows it was a slip of the tongue.

Bush does this sort of slipup 24/7/365, and what since everybody in the press knows he's an idiot, he's allowed
to stay much stupider stuff on a daily basis?

[Erika]

72. Kerry bashers are GOP appeasers

You let them off the hook at the expense of Kerry by not directing your attention to them.

John Kerry is a great guy who is doing his best. Lay off and attack the real opponent.

[distantearlywarning]

77. I don't think he messed up.

Either way you take his statement, it's true. George Bush IS an idiot who got us stuck in Iraq. AND the armed forces have been lately accepting many of those unfortunate enough to not have the education to do anything else with their lives. They can't recruit well from other populations anymore because the idiot George Bush got us stuck in Iraq. I'm sorry some people can't accept either of those facts, but it doesn't change their veracity.

And he (Kerry) gave a terrific speech about it a few days ago. "Stuffed shirt" indeed! I wish he'd been speaking like that all along, maybe he would have gotten himself elected.

I hope he keeps refusing to apologize to those hypocritical bastards for the things he says. It's a nice change.

[NNN0LHI]

78. Same ones who were creaming their jeans when the Kerry "intern" lie came out

Funny that.

Don

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

80. Relax, it will pass.

He made a cringe-worth statement, yeah. And he did it at the wrong time, yeah. But it ain't the end of the world. DU always focuses intensely on the current news cycle, almost to the exclusion of everything else. Most normal people don't. I think there's a tendency here to assume that losing one news cycle loses the entire war.

[JCMach1]

82. Not bashing when someone makes a stupid gaffe and combines

it with fumbled handling of the aftermath...


I am sorry about it, but that is what happened. You can't imagine it away. For most people, what Kerry said and his reaction is like nails on a chalkboard.

The only good out of this... he isn't running for anything right now!


Also, this will die down quickly. There is too much bad news coming and to come and out of Iraq.

[SammyWinstonJack]

83. knr!

[PATRICK]

87. Kerry has a perpetual jeering section here

that dates to primary grudges. IF this is the same crowd they can indeed can it. Otherwise what has any just anger from any decent man have to do with the invisible, too often subterranean Beelzebub Spin Machine? You can't win unless you simply confront and can't wait until you have divinely perfect words at the right time and right place according to hostile rules written by the opposition.

Before I could even post it the GOP created an opening for what had to be done. The baited and misinterpreted and played this whole thing for the DUers who are reborn as suckers every minute. leading Dems NEEDED to come on strong and loud against the incessant tidal wave of lies that were drowning out the vulnerable voter support. However it happened, engage or get out on the streets. If you can't say something to HELP the cause, confine yourself to lit drops and making coffee.

Un-&%^$-ing believable. And you wonder how our troops come to be trapped and dying for Bushco with no legitimate American able to challenge the crime. Save your carping for the day we actually HAVE the freedom and luxury to improve just issues and good men instead of ghetto wars to amuse the slumlords.

[ljm2002]

94. You summed it up precisely! n/t

[Zavulon]

96. I agree with you that this is annoying, but not in the way you say.

I, for one, am stunned that so many people are buying Kerry's excuse. He had it right the first time, and then caved under pressure when he should have stood his ground (you know, like he should have two years ago).

The supposed "booming" economy and "rapid job growth" hasn't stopped a lot of people I know from seeing their kids join the military because of a lack of jobs that could provide a living wage. One friend of mine has three sons overseas, and all of them joined because they couldn't find a decent civilian job that provided acceptable benefits.

Yes, Kerry's "stuffed shirt" comment was amusing, but I don't view that as him "sticking up for himself." "Sticking up for himself" would have been more along the lines of "yes, I said what I meant - the economy sucks, the situation in Iraq sucks, and you're all worthless pawns to Bush."

I do not believe for a moment that a speaker as skilled as Kerry "botched up" this supposed "joke." I don't believe he meant "get us into Iraq" at all, I believe he meant it just as it came out and I believe it was an appropriate comment. Sure, some would perceive that as an insult to the military, but if you hammer away at the economy and Iraq at the same time you can make all but the whiniest whiners drop the "waaaaah, he insulted our soldiers" angle. Kerry is a decorated military hero and that shit wouldn't fly for long. Now he claims that he "botched" up a "joke" that wouldn't have been funny in the first place? Yeah, right.

Why am I so convinced that Kerry meant exactly what came out? Because I had to join the military thanks to the economic policies of Reagan and the Shrub's father. I heard Kerry's words yesterday and didn't feel insulted at all. He was right, and should have stuck to his guns. Instead, he folded in response to a Repug furor, his cowardice in the face of Repug pressure took two important issues off the table when they should have been driven home.

I'm a vet because of Reagan, Bush 41 and the fact that I didn't finish my degree. Kerry's words yesterday, as they came out, were 100% right and he should have grown the fucking balls to stick with them. I was far more insulted by his lie of an excuse and his expectation that I would believe it than I was by his actual words.

[coco77]

97. Freepers and trolls and those who want ....

to or are unwittingly following the repug playbook.

[helderheid]

99. the answer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2539666