So answer me this fellow DU'ers and Americans:

[The Straight Story]

This is a follow up to my other thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2534711

300 Million Americans in this land of ours. In 2001 we lost roughly 3000 people to terrorism.

How many did we lose to:
1. Poor Health care
2. Poor Mental Health care
3. Corporate Pollution
4. Poor education (ie, poor education led to poor choices, which led to death).
5. Hunger
6. Homelessness
7. Suicides (Suicide took the lives of 30,622 people in 2001 (CDC 2004)).

And So on.

So where is our money going? War against a country that has never attacked us. Trillions of dollars. To PREVENT our deaths.

What is the republican party doing to protect the lives of us? They are spending it in an asinine way to 'save' us.

It should be more than evident that there is no desire to save our lives on the real issues, and that money is spent to enrich the already wealth corporations who supply the government with arms and war technology.

You think Iraq is difficult? And to fix it you spend money and endless resources to fix it? Helloooooo! We have a ton of issues here that are difficult and need your attention.

People are dying here by the truckload from things which can be addressed and fixed, and you are over there wasting our money - my hard earned money - killing men, women, and children to make me safer?

This is truly messed up.

You don't give a damn about us, and the American people need to see your lies for what they are.

[Erika]

1. Excellent post

Let's see how many are capable of introspection. Thank you.

[Wonk]

2. The odds of you getting hit by lightning are higher than the odds

of you getting killed in a terrorist attack.

The odds of you getting killed in a car accident are WAY higher.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

3. Well part of it is due to this mindset we have developed

over the last couple of decades that government is our friend, it is not, and it never has been. A point on which the founders were very clear on but it seems we lost sight of over the years. The fact is government acts in the best interest of the government. It is the people who are responsible for acting in there on best interest by staying on top of their government. Something we have failed too do.

[canetoad]

4. Preachin' to the choir

The problem is understanding why a hearty percentage of your population (and ours) take for granted that anything they see on TV, hear on the wireless or read in the papers is the given truth.

And then you must come to grips with the essence of human nature. Not everyone is the same.

Now I know a little about humans in general. This is a given; you cannot bully someone into changing their views. I'd also say it is counterproductive to get angry and abusive because people don't think the way you do.

The true financial cost of this war is being hidden. Ranting at people won't help. Calm delivery of figures will. I know you are coming from the right place, but don't rant to people who agree with you. Go quietly convert a neighbour with the facts.

[The Straight Story]

5. I will answer that , from experience - I *was* a RW fundie

I used to be a rw fundie. And I have preached to others and not just here (in fact, my RW son has converted to the dem way, after being banned here for saying he would vote for bush a third time...sheesh, he had a lot to learn).

What I am answering:
"The problem is understanding why a hearty percentage of your population (and ours) take for granted that anything they see on TV, hear on the wireless or read in the papers is the given truth."

I know why, for the most part. I was there in the 90's and lived it first hand, and was an ignorant SOB for part of that time.

It is all about perception and spin. The perception is that the left want to enable behaviors which are detrimental to the individual and society (to wit, encourage gay people who will be risky and get aids, and then come crying to the government for help, and of course the old 'welfare queens' crap).

People don't see beyond their own lives, and figure 'Hell, if I am making it and OK you should be to, if you are not it is because you are weak, which the left rewards'. These SAME people will donate time and money to their church or other organizations to help the 'less fortunate' through food banks, secret santa, et al.

They see things in a linear fashion when it comes to others.

They don't see until they live it, and the RW will try to keep them from seeing it, and when they do see it they will try to make them feel guilty about it and blame themselves totally. They do not factor in depression, et al. They want the individual to be guilty and play on that guilt, all the while they are playing the victim and sucking away their resources.

The public has been brainwashed into thinking they can 100% control every aspect of their life and what happens in it, all the while the government is controlling a big portion of it (through a variety of methods).

If we want to reach them, we need to take up the cross (so to speak) and evangelize. We need to take a page form the playbook of the Christians and get out and preach day in and out to people. Something I need to do more of I might add. WE need to educate folks because no one else will.

I agree with you - but to me, personally, it helps to let off steam here and preach to the choir :)

[canetoad]

6. Bloody good points

And thank you for answering so honestly.

I sometimes think humans are divided roughly 50/50. Those who would murder to ensure their own stash of dried meat and fruits for the winter and those who would collect and store their whole tribes winter food, in a collaborative effort.

These days I would call them Libs and Labour here in Oz, Republicans and Dems in America, Tories/Labour in England. There is a sort of natural divide in people. The selfish vs. the co-operative. When dealing with the selfish, there is only one approach to take; appeal to their self interest!

[Wonk]

8. This may or may not surprise you, but I've had you pegged as such for awhile.

At least you're straight up about it now.

The tipping point was your wife's Parkinson's?

[The Straight Story]

10. Nope

The tipping point was much much earlier in life.

I worked against OBE in the early days, when dems were for it (and are now against it). I was consistent in my beliefs for the most part. The tipping point for me was based on issues, and how they were dealt with. What RW fundies did not pay attention to were the issues, and I kept the same on them.

In the 90's I felt the same as I do now, and yeah I bitched about clinton - but I bitch about bush for the same reasons (from NK to Iraq) and when dems are in power I will call em on the carpet just the same this time. It is not enough to get elected and have power, you still need to do the right thing.

My biggest turning point was education here at DU and the Iraq war. I have been reading DU since it became a web site, though I did not post here.

I still feel that dems are not doing enough at times, but I have come to see them as the party that has promise. Before I was mixed as my grandpa was a repub mayor and my uncle was a dem mayor, I saw them both as good men trying hard for the people that elected them (and grandpa built the big park in byesville and even handed out basketballs to the kids from his house to play, he was not how we see repubs today as being, he was pro people).

[951-Riverside]

7. Don't forget gang warfare

How many people have been lost because of random gang violence since 2001?

[Sad4world]

9. Beware lightning, deer, peanuts

"including the September 11 attacks, the number of Americans killed by terrorists since records on this were kept is about the same as those killed by lightning, accident-causing deer or severe allergic reaction to peanuts."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,21129-2324628,00.html

[genie_weenie]

11. Good points.

If I may ask a question:

Do you believe the Federal Government is capable of addressing these issues and we have the wrong people in the positions?

Or do you belive the Federal Government is incapable of addressing these issues?

[The Straight Story]

12. I believe we the federal government can address them, but:

We need people in power who won't let special interests and fear dictate to them how they should vote.

The federal government should be there to serve our needs, not it's own bloated ones. I am not sure when they became separate from us, but to me it appears that is the case now. Taking back our government is the first step, then having us apply pressure to those we elect (dems) to address the issues. We need to have a more solid voice and power base than do the corporations. They have money, and as long as money buys votes we won't get the job done. So it boils down to education of the masses and empowering them, getting them involved.

Once people wake up and pay attention, then we will resolve the issues at hand.

[genie_weenie]

13. I have lost all confidence in the Federal Government.

I still feel one's voice can be heard when one gets involved in the Local Governmental workings, but the money and influence required to affect Federal workings is beyond most individuals and groups.

IMO, to reach the upper levels of Government a politician must cut so many deals and accept so much lobbyists money. I think 95% would betray their most cherished principles if it meant being re-elected.

Also, I think there may be a fundamental flaw in awaiting for the "right" people. It's been 2500 years since Plato pinned for the Philosopher-King who would be an enlightened ruler. The kind of top-down leadership doesn't work for the majority of people. Top-down socialism doesn't work, "trickle-down" economics doesn't work, Representatives working for the so-called "common good" or the "general will" always end up ignoring the majority.

The education issue is an important one. Education today was crafted in order to keep the divisions existed in American society in place. This isn't a meritocracy. Sure an occasional plebe is raised up out of his position, usually sports stars, great inventors or entertainers. Which is why they speak out often against the current system. But those Horatio Alger stories are more akin to the lottery than the American Dream. It's used to keep the "lesser" classes in check by reinforcing the if I don't succeed it's due to my inherent "wrongness" and lack of hard work and not due to any faults in the system.

Getting back to public education, it was purposefully designed to make most citizens productive cogs for in industry, government or the military. To be used up in labor or war and discarded once broken. Attempts have been made to alleviate this by Government and Unions to force disability pay onto Corporations and the creation of Social Security. However, Government bureaucrats even today cite the damaged cogs as a drain on the Government David S. Chu:http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/12861 But those efforts are a hammer approach and end up causing other kinds of problems.

Education also works hard to instill respect and awe for Government and authority.
Why is the Congress in such an opulent building? Why all the pomp and circumstance and the titles of Honorable Congressman So & So? To overawe the masses. To make them equate those who should be working for us and at our behest as those who rule and "Decider" things for us.

Anyway, I'm going to vote Democratic (Tammy Duckworth) and I hope the Dems take the house and Senate but the system won't change.