Kerry needs to apologize and make this go away

[Pawel K]

I am extremely upset at DU this morning. After I ate my breakfast I came on here to see what was going on like I do every morning before work. And what do I see? Fine members of this board accusing other fine members of being trolls, freepers, and worse; all because of this stupid Kerry thing. The fact is, whether or not you like Kerry, he completely fucked this one up. We all know the right wing has absolutely nothing going for them this election season and a week before the election they were scouring every democratic speech and event praying for a fuck up. And with Kerry they got one. What he said plain and simple is that if you are stupid and uneducated you will end up fighting in Iraq. Did he mean that? Of course not. He made a stupid mistake that frankly was offensive. My mother always thought me that if you make a mistake that is offensive you apologize, people will still respect you that way. This is why people don't respect Bush and co, because no matter how many mistakes they make, no matter how many people die from those mistakes they will never apologize or admit they did anything wrong. It is time for Kerry to take the high road, apologize, and make this stupid thing go away 6 days before an election. We can not afford to have this hanging over us next week, there is too much at stake.

[LaurenG]

1. I totally disagree with you

What is he to apologize for? Should he say "I'm sorry I'm a poor joke teller"? The audience he was speaking to "got it" they laughed. Let it go.

[Pawel K]

10. This is what he should say, and Im not speech writer

I'm sorry that my remarks on tuesday caused offense to our troops. "The joke I made was meant to say that if you are uneducated you will end up like Bush by leading us into a war you can't get out of. I am bad at telling jokes and for that I apologize. The outrage over my statements shows how desperate the Bush administration is one week before the election."

What is wrong with saying that?

And don't get me wrong, I appreciate the fact he is finally fighting back against this administration. But when you say what he said it makes us seem like the party that thinks troops are dumb. If you believe that the american people actually know about his service and could excuse him because of this you might not have been paying any attention in 2004.

[LaurenG]

51. So you really want him to clarify what he said and do it in the form of an apology

is that correct? I'd be OK if he thought he should do it but I feel ok if he just lets it ride as well. I think it should be left to him to say more or not.

After all most voters aren't as confused as the republicans think they are. My 83 year old bush voting mom thought it was funny once it was clarified by Chris Matthews last night.

[ItNerd4life]

118. I agree completely!

Well said. This would have stopped everybody in their tracks and made the Republicans look stupid. I believe the way he's handling it is making himself look stupid.

Many people on DU claim you have to attack back at the Republicans. I disagree, if you attack you are no different than they are. We are intellectually superior, so use it against them by showing them how stupid they are. By taking the smarter road and admitting he made a mistake (which everyone does) and then by explaining what he meant to say, he would have made them look stupid.

Voters understand this honesty, they don't understand the attacks and counter-attacks. Use their weakness (attacks) against them. That's what smart people do. It's why Obama is so highly respected, he doesn't counter-attack he explains and corrects.

[Solo_in_MD]

82. I agree mildly, perhaps explain not apologize would be a better description

From what I have seen around me, a large number of people took it as a slap at our soldiers, not the President. It was a poorly told joke that got misconstrued, not surprising considering the current environment and Kerry is not the most effective speaker out there. He should explain what he thought he said, reinforce that is was about Bush, and move on. Several other posts here suggest the same.

In the end it is the responsibility of the communicator to ensure that effective and correct communication occurs. It did not happen in this case. The DU chant blaming the media and stupid people does not change the fact that he did step in it to some extent. The good news is that I doubt it will influence a single voter.

[babylonsister]

2. He did not! And he has nothing to apologiize for. He brought the

topic of this mal-admin back to the forefront. Why cave to the r/w for that?

[AzDar]

9. What you said!!! n/t

[ClassWarrior]

3. Thank you for your concern.

NGU.

[Crankie Avalon]

6. Best possible reply to this particular OP...

:thumbsup: ;-)

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

55. .

:-) MKJ

[LostinVA]

123. Yup, lots of concern in the OP

[ProSense]

4. BS!

What he said plain and simple is that if you are stupid and uneducated you will end up fighting in Iraq. Did he mean that? Of course not. He made a stupid mistake that frankly was offensive.

BS!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2534813&mesg_id=2534813

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2534136&mesg_id=2534136


Feel free to stand down, but don't ask others to!

[emulatorloo]

5. No, Du'ers need to stop "catapulting the propaganda"

This is a pure manufactured BS from the right wing machine. Kerry done good yesterday. Read it and stand tall:

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/releases/release.html?id=34

[SammyWinstonJack]

7. So stop talking about it.

:shrug: No one talks about it and it goes away. Pretty simple.

[Virginia Dare]

8. MOVE ON....

a mistake was made, words were misconstrued, whatever. There is no justice in the msm for liberals these days. The alcoholic drug-addled mentally deficient sociopath in the White House gets a pass daily. His cheerleading rant the other day far blew away ANYTHING Howard Dean ever did as being over the top. It was totally inappropriate, and smacked of the ravings of a desperate mad man. NOT A PEEP from the rwmsm.

Okay, let's get over it. We're in the homestretch. Let's win back both houses and start turning this donkey around!!!

:kick:

[Pawel K]

13. I agree with you

but you have to face the fact (based on exactly what you said) that the media will not simply move on. I know for a fact most voters don't get their news from this site, they get it from places like CNN that will not drop this until next week unless Kerry fixes this.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

11. It's the exact oppposite. Apology = they win. He's acting tough.

Which rings pleasantly with people. People like tough.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. Apologize? Bull.

Republicans never apologize for anything. Why should Kerry? An apology for something he didn't actually do would make him look weak (again). I'm still pissed off at Dick Durbin for apologizing.

[Pawel K]

15. Exactly, republicans never apologize. And look at their approval ratings.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. And the Republicans (with the help of the media and SOME Dems)

want Kerry to apologize so he will look weak again. He has made it clear he will not, and good for him.

[babylonsister]

72. So what was the point of your OP?

:shrug:

[Justyce]

14. I think the media has successfully pulled a

"Howard Dean" on him, taking a snippet out of context & blitzing the airwaves with it nonstop -- trying to assure he won't run again - he got too many votes last time for comfort.... JMO.

[Double T]

16. Good thread, I agree with YOU completely...........

NOW, it is time to put THIS behind 'US' and focus our attention on the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE, TAKING BACK OUR COUNTRY AND OUR GOVERNMENT FROM THE neocon RW!!!!!

[SaveElmer]

17. You are wrong...apologizing will extend the story...

It requires an aggresive response which will refocus the story on Bush and his Iraq policy!

[Philosoraptor]

18. respectfully, fuck that

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pawel K]

24. thank you, for proving my point

everyone on this board that doesn't share your exact point of view word for word is a gop shill. Get the fuck out, we dont need you here.

[Connie_Corleone]

31. Well, if you had actually read that Kerry was NOT talking about

the troops, but making a joke about Bush, then maybe you wouldn't have written your OP.

Get the facts first before spewing GOP smears.

[Tarcat1]

45. Re:Well, if you had actually read that Kerry was NOT talking about

"31. Well, if you had actually read that Kerry was NOT talking about"


You aren't this naive are you? Do you really think the American public are good at informing themselves or will take the time to understand the context of things? They won't. A lot of people will see this clip and take it at face value, particularly with the way the media and in particular the conservative media will spin it. Perception matters in politics and you cannot hand your opponents quotes that are so easy to take out of context.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

124. Beat me to this statement

[wicket]

79. Why do you think Americans are so stupid??

Why do you hate America so much? :crazy:

[wicket]

38. This is a board for supporting DEMOCRATS

Not parroting right-wing talking points. Kerry was referring to Bush, it's obvious from the context, the last thing we need as a PARTY is for Kerry to bow down to their distortion of his words.

:spank: :spank: :spank:

[LostinVA]

125. Thank YOU for defending Bush through your OP

Because, that is exactly what you're doing. Kerry criticized Bush, rightly. Asking him -- no, DEMANDING he apologize -- whether it's you, McCain, or HAROLD FORD, is akin to sticking up for Georgie.

Nope, not in my party. This is DEMOCRATIC Underground. We do not condone apologizing to Bush just because it's politically "smart."

Fuck that.

[L A Woman]

142. HA HA - Miss the point much?

The point is that John Kerry doesn't know when to KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT. For a guy who's been around as long as he has, he seems to have no sense of timing whatsoever. It's seven days before the election. All signs point to a Democratic victory. SHUT THE FUCK UP, JOHN KERRY.

[underpants]

20. WRONG

try again later

[wicket]

23. There are so many CONCERNED people lately

:mad:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

35. Oh, yeah, the CONCERNED people.

"I'm really CONCERNED that Kerry made a serious mistake, and he ought to apologize..." :puke:

[LostinVA]

126. Loads of CONCERNED folks

[wicket]

161. Coming out of the woodwork they are...

[Pawel K]

158. Yes we are all here as part of a conspiracy to get you all to vote republican

We don't want whats best for this party and don't have a genuine concern about where this country is heading. Instead we were hired by Rove and all vote straight republican tickets. My last 600+ posts in the last 2 years have been to secretly convert you liberuls to our agenda. Be scared as there are thousands of us amongst you.

:eyes:

Some of you are fucking nuts, really.

[wicket]

160. We're fucking nuts, eh?

:eyes:

[Pawel K]

164. Yes, if you accuse me of being a "concerned troll" then yes, yes you are

With some of you any other opinion is not allowed and leads to personal attacks. I try to be as politically involved as possible but this type of shit is insane and really throws off a lot of people.

[pecwae]

21. Apologize for what?

Telling a bad joke? Telling a joke that was over some folks heads? I wasn't offended and I'm a veteran.

[Mountainman]

22. You are echoing the noise machine, so let it alone or be a part of the opposition.

[Connie_Corleone]

25. I give up. If some people on DU can't understand that Kerry screwed

up a joke about BUSH and WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE TROOPS, then screw it.

[Pawel K]

26. Did you read my OP, I know he was talking about Bush

nobody here is disputing this. What I am saying is the american people will not see it that way as he did mispeak. The way he said it made it sound like he was talking about the troops, he did not mention Bush.

[Nickster]

30. Sorry you didn't get the joke. When does Dubya apologize for lying us into the

war in the first place?

[Pawel K]

39. Again, Dubya is an asshole. Just becasue he wont do whats right

doesn't mean we shouldn't.

[Nickster]

44. Bending to manufactured outrage every single time is the right thing? Sorry

not in my world. Let them snivel and beg for an apology. I'm not into handwringing. All he has to do is pretend he's Dubya and attack the media for distorting his speechifying.

[LostinVA]

129. So, apologizing to Bush is "doing what's right"???

Bwwwahhh.... you slipped up there, partner.

[ruggerson]

52. How the fuck do you know what the American people will think?

Who died and left you arbiter of the national conscience?

This story will die by tomorrow and Kerry needs to get off the stage and LET it die.

And, no, you don't apologize when the other side takes your words out of context and twists them. You EXPLAIN, which is exactly what he die.

Posts like yours keep this topic alive, so one has to wonder why you wish the story to have legs.

[Pawel K]

59. He explained nice, now show me one newscast this morning that aired his explaination

I'll give you some time.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

68. The Today Show gave his response a nice chunk of airplay.

Thanks for giving me that time, you're in generous mood. MKJ

[ruggerson]

69. It's all over the airwaves

I haven't seen one newscast that shows Bush that doesn't show Kerry. And Charlie Gibson on ABC News last night dismissed the whole thing as a media manufactured frenzy in the opening five minutes.

And the headlines in all the papers this AM read "Bush and Kerry clash on Iraq" because Kerry got out there and changed the headline yesterday as soon as the Republicans started to smear him.

Kerry needs to shut the fuck up and let this story die. The stupidest thing he could do would be to "apologize" and lend credibility to the Republican's smear campaign.

[tuvor]

112. Fox News carried it in full. Here's the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGwc-9pmmbM&eurl=

[Liberal Veteran]

IOW, you are saying "If you don't study hard, you'll be a dumb American"

...excepting of course, yourself.

[LostinVA]

127. I don't condone any Democratic apologizing to Bush for hurting his

Chickenhawk feelings.

Tell you what, YOU call up Bush and apologize. Maybe Ford and some other CONCERNED Duers will do it with you.

I don't apologize for the truth, and I don't expect my leaders or fellow liberals to do so either.

[patrick t. cakes]

27. no apology needed

the sound bites im hearing
this morning make Kerry look good.
to apologize would be an absolute
mistake.
keep fighting Kerry.
anyone who knows Kerry's record concerning the troops and veterans,
knows what he meant.

people see through the desperation of the right wing,
its over for them.

[Nickster]

28. BULLCRAP! I'm so sick and tired of every little word coming out of the mouth

of a Democratic politician being torn to shreds and raked over the coals. The re Pukes needs to just get over it! Did he make a mistake? Did he do it on purpose? WHO CARES!? But I damn sure would not apologize to them until I start to hear some apologies for the lies that we hear every stinking day from the WH. They insult my intelligence and spit in my eye every time I turn on the TV, open up a newspaper, etc. I want apologies too, but I don't expect to get them any time soon. Their fake indignation makes me sick to my stomach.

I will be more pissed off at Kerry if he bends and says anything other than it was a quirky joke and I'm sorry that you didn't get it, but we need to move on and discuss real issues that effect this country.

[CBHagman]

110. The whole point is the 'cans just want to MAKE an issue of it.

As one might expect, the Republicans' approach here is simply Karl Rove's business of targeting opponents on their strengths and framing the issue.

The GOP and talk show host outcry was never about the troops. It's pure "gotcha" politics and ignores all principles, morals, and competence. If they can distract the public into obsessing over a comment, people might forget a hundred service members died during October in Iraq, and scores of Iraqis have been slaughtered.

[kstewart33]

32. He has nothing to apologize for.

Kerry said on Imus today that he's cancelling his schedule campaign appearances so that he does not become a distraction. A good move.

I haven't seen cable TV but judging from the major newspapers, it's not getting much attention.

GOTV. GOTV. That's what matters the most now.

[anniebelle]

33. How many RW trolls on DU this morning?

Apologize my ass. This is exactly what's wrong with this country now. Nobody has the guts to stand up to the constant lies and silly bullshit put out by that slime ball Rove. We have TRUE heroes in the Democratic Party and the Regressives have nothing but lies, lies and MORE LIES. Get a grip DUer's. This is going to get nasty these last few days.
Don't go off on these side roads they're trying to take us on.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

54. Hear, hear! If the best they can do is trounce on a miscue by John

Kerry, then they are toast.

MKJ

:toast:

[KharmaTrain]

34. What Kerry Said Was Offensive?

To whom? The asshats who want to use our kids as cannon fodder for their wars of profit and folly? To the Faux armchair generals who set this thing up in the first place to divert attention away from real issues?

Kerry spoke truth...even in his slip-up. The deal is the military does prey on the those who don't have educational opportunities. A couple years ago, on a flight from LA to Chicago, I sat next to a new recruit. The kid had just graduated high school the other day. He was from the barrio of East LA...couldn't afford college and the military was one of the only things that would keep him from being on the streets with lots of time and little money. The military was his ticket to something...he wasn't sure, but he knew it was better than what he was leaving behind. Despite my opposition to this ugly war, I respected that and i'm sure this young man would agree with Senator Kerry...cause if he had the means and ability, he'd be doing something else.

The fact that a there's so many Iraqi vets running as Democrats this year should tell you something. The Repugnicans blew their lock on the military vote and they've alienated a generation...one that will be heard from next Tuesday.

If you're offended by what Kerry said, then Rove gotcha...don't fall for the straw man game here. This is to deflect the blame of this fiasco away from those with blood on their hands. I welcome spending the rest of this campaign beating on the Iraq drum as its what got us to this point and every time this regime plays that card, it loses.

[wake.up.america]

41. I understood him completely - so what's the problem?

How about an apology from Bush for Iraq?

How about an apology from Bush for Katrina?

How about an apology from Bush for for lying?

How about an apology from Bush for cheating?

How about an apology from Bush for stealing?

How about an apology from Bush for insulting the American public?

How about an apology from Bush for destroying American creditability??

[dusmcj]

36. Dem Party hack operatives need to apologize if they fail next Tuesday

They're the problem, not Mr. Kerry, and they were the source of our losses in 2000 and 2004. Next Tuesday is a test for the leadership of the Democratic Party. If we don't win and win big, it's time for them to retire. The Democratic Party is not here to provide a career in politics to its leadership.

[calmblueocean]

37. How much more wrong could you pack into a paragraph?

1. "The fact is, whether or not you like Kerry, he completely fucked this one up."

No he didn't. It's the right-wing smear machine doing what it always does. Kerry was making a joke about the president not doing the homework on Iraq, and believe me, the wingnuts who started this attack know that. Their goal is to get you and everyone else in the country to blame Kerry instead of the smear machine, and you're falling right into it.

2. "What he said plain and simple is that if you are stupid and uneducated you will end up fighting in Iraq."

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq."

That's what he said. He never mentioned "fighting". He never mentioned "troops" or "the military". And it's obvious that he's criticizing the president here. Bush didn't do the homework on Iraq, he didn't study the problem, didn't make the effort to be smart. And now we're stuck in Iraq.

3. "He made a stupid mistake that frankly was offensive."

He didn't make a mistake. It's the r/w promoting a deliberate misinterpretation of what he said. And you know what? They could've picked a hundred other quotes from a hundred other candidates. They just focused on Kerry because they want to bring back the emotions of 2004, not 2006. No one can speak so carefully and timidly that the r/w slime machine won't find a way to twist what they said. And if you could, you wouldn't have said anything at all.

If it wasn't Kerry, it would've been Dean, or Hillary, or Kennedy, or Pelosi, or anyone. If you ever run for office, they'll do the same to you. Maybe you should take your anger out on the word-twisting slime machine instead of the guy out raising money to get Dems elected.

[Tarcat1]

40. You are right

You are absolutly correct. Kerry messed up and put his foot in his mouth. In politics what matters isn't what you meant to say but what you actually said and how it could be interpreted. The right wing spin machine is spectacular at taking quotes out of context and spinning anything one of us says so why in gods name would you hand them such a golden quote? Kerry seems to make a habbit of doing this and I wish he'd just vanish from the national scene. He was a poor candidate in 2004 and I don't want him as the face of our party in 2006 or 2008.

[wicket]

47. OUR party?

:eyes:

[Nickster]

48. He has a Democrat in his pocket. :-) n/t

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

53. Every single one of his posts is trashing Kerry

Did someone order a pizza? :P

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

91. LMAO!

:rofl: MKJ

[LostinVA]

131. zzzzzz.... what?

Sorry, what was that? Oh -- guess what? You're not even good at this. Did Liberty U cancel classes or something this morning?

[wicket]

155. Stop it, you're KILLING me!!!!

:rofl: :rofl:

[LostinVA]

156. I'm just concerned about his concern...

[LostinVA]

130. Oh boy -- try a little harder, okay?

Alert.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

42. I just saw a clip of Kerry's response, non apology, on the GOP bellweather

"The Today Show" and he looked and sounded great.

That's exactly what he needs to do. And Timmeh is actually talking about the dismantling of the checkpoints in Iraq.

No apology ever! MKJ

[moondust]

43. Wrong.

Kerry has no business apologizing for somebody else's feverish clutching at straws.

[theothersnippywshrub]

46. Kerry needs to go on every show he can and tell the joke correctly.

Then he needs to talk about Iraq and Bush's lies and mistakes and point out that the republican Congress endorsed and rubber stamped every single Bush lie and blunder without question. Kerry can get unlimited airtime right now and democrats need to take advantage of such an opportunity to connect each and every republican in Congress to Iraq and their unquestioning support of Bush's lies and mistakes.

[Blue Diadem]

49. Stupid, lazy, did poorly in school,+stuck in Iraq=Bush

When I heard the phrase Kerry used, I knew immediately he was talking about Bush. It's really sad that there are those who would automatically think he meant our military and even sadder that some people on our side feel Kerry needs to apologize.

[Pawel K]

57. News flash for all DUers

We lost in 2002 and 2004 because the american public is stupid, most do not care to spend 5 minutes a week to actually do some political research.

You guys have way to much faith in the American people and that faith will back fire next Tuesday. If you all haven't learned your lessons in 2002 and 2004 I really don't know what else to say. I can't believe some of you are actually suggesting that the American people will somehow maagically understand what Kerry meant if he drags this out all week by not apologizing for screwing up a joke.

But I guess in your world all of you are right, its people like me that are the problem. If we lose this election I think I'm moving to Canada, I'm tired of this bullshit.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

64. Well, you certainly count as one of those who fits the description you just

put forth.

Your OP shows that you fell for the msm spin hook, line and sinker.

In 2002 and 2004 Kerry would have apologized for the remark.

That was when he, and the Dems, were "being polite" and "taking the high road".

It got us abso f***ing lutely nowhere.

So, you can wish for your "apology" all you want. MKJ

[ClassWarrior]

65. News flash for Pawel K - we didn't lose in 2002 & 2004.

But thanks for your concern.

NGU.

[Tarcat1]

86. Thank You

"We lost in 2002 and 2004 because the american public is stupid, most do not care to spend 5 minutes a week to actually do some political research."

Thank you. Why people on here somehow think that the vast majority of the American public bother to understand context is beyond me and shows just how out of touch with reality some on here are.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

92. Well, at least you transferred your attacks from Kerry to DU'ers.

All of us being out of touch with reality and so forth. :-) MKJ

[wicket]

93. First you attack Kerry, now you're attacking DUers?

Enjoy your short stay :nopity:

[obnoxiousdrunk]

107. You're doing

good for you're first day on DU. Welcome to DU and hope you stick around and learn.

[LostinVA]

135. Thanks for your concern, it makes us all warm and fuzzy

The polls are scaring you shitless, aren't they?

GIGGLEGIGGLEGIGGLE

[LostinVA]

136. Dude, you REALLY suck at this concern troll stuff

Come on, concentrate, focus Grasshopper -- you can do better. At this rate, you won't make it to 50 posts...

[Blue Diadem]

116. IMO, it will not matter if he apologizes or not, people will believe what they want

I'd much rather see him stand up for himself and the soldiers, rather than apologize for something the opposition spun.

IMO, it speaks volumes that Bush and his cronies immediately thought he meant the troops. They are the ones who don't think very highly of the Military and it shows when their first thought is stupid/uneducated/stuck in Iraq=Military.

[LostinVA]

134. Thanks for your concern

[ProgressiveFool]

148. If we don't have faith in the American people

then, ultimately, what's the fucking point of anything we do politically?

Kerry mangled a sentence, and that's not a crime. Afterwards, he did exactly the right thing by explaining what it was he really meant, turning the question back around on the Bushies who have nothing better to run on than someone else's mistake, instead of running on their own mistakes for once, and then leaving the scene.

End of story.

[never_get_over_it]

56. Take the high road

excuse me taking the high road is standing up to these effing liars.... John Kerry DID NOT disrespect the troops - he wasn't even talking about the troops - he has nothing to apologize for - and you think we should give in to these right wing LYING PUNKS - NO we've been giving in to them for six years ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

[Old and In the Way]

58. No, he doesn't.

Apologizing would do precisely the opposite...it would give the RW Wurlitzer new talking points to trumpet. Republicans have said and done much worse...have they apologized? When Bush was making jokes about looking for anot finding WMD, did he apologize for that infinitely more disgusting and revolting moment? Of course not.

Stop playing into the RW spin and support Kerry by pushing back on these hypocrits. There is nothing Kerry needs to apologize about, except maybe the fact that there is not a majority in Congress, yet, to impeach this misadministration.

[Pawel K]

62. I will not push back, I want this shit to go away.

if we are still talking about this next week we will lose a shit load of votes over it. Kerry needs to say he messed up the joke, he is sorry if anyone too offense, and let it go.

I fully respect what he has done in the last couple weeks. I watched most interviews and cheered him on, and still do. But what he said gave the right wing an excuse to againt shift the debate to "why do democrats hate the troops". They are wrong and we should fight back, but not until after the election when we won't be hurt by this. Again, I think you guys are giving the american people, who voted these idiots into office 6 years in a row, way too much credit.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

74. But, but, in your OP, you wrote that what Kerry said was "offensive"

And, now you're saying that you really respect him and he screwed up a joke.

Whew, you're spinning so fast, it's hard to keep up. MKJ

[ProSense]

77. Nonsense! No one except the people who are pushing this

misunderstood Kerry's statement! Not one pundit claimed to be that stupid! The Republicans and wingnuts are all pushing for a "gotcha" apology for the hysteria they whipped up!

Enough of Democrats standing still, remaining silent and hoping the the scary RW smear machine leaves them alone!

[abluelady]

60. The Longer the Media Talks About It

The more time we can focus on the Iraq war which is exactly what the GOP doesn't want. I think we should keep it going and make sure the truth of what Kerry meant is out there which is that Bush fucked up this war and a change is needed in congress.

[Pawel K]

66. but the truth about what kerry said wont be out there

do you really trust this republican owned media to explain Kerry's remarks? They never will.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

70. Now you're just getting shrill. Those flames can get uncomfortably hot, huh?

MKJ

[Tarcat1]

76. but the truth about what kerry said wont be out there

Exactly! Thats why Kerry can't hand them things on a platter that are easy to take out of context!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

84. You're still here? n/t

MKJ

[Puglover]

114. I wonder what's gonna go 1st.

This idiotic thread or him. :evilgrin:

[LostinVA]

139. I'm betting him

[LostinVA]

137. It is out there, CT -- good try, though

A LITTLE bit better than some of your efforts...

Tell me: are you afraid of the Three Billy Goats Gruff?

[abluelady]

102. They Won't Tell the Truth About Kerry

But it puts Iraq in the forefront and the GOP is trying to run away from Iraq this week. Sometimes things have to work out for us.:banghead:

[coco77]

61. Kerry shouldn't apologize...

this is what the GOP wants. Why should he apologize for something he didn't say. The gop even says that they know what he meant they just want the non-story to keep going until the election.The dumb bastard in the whitehouse needs to apologize to the people he sent to war for his daddy. If someone is going to change their vote now because of this they don't shouldn't be voting anyway because they are to stupid to look at the facts as they are.

[npincus]

63. MSM keeps running the quote out-of-context

and are feeding (or creating) the wrong perception that he was disparaging the troops. If the preceding 20 or 30 seconds of Kerry's speech are played, then it is CLEAR that he is talking about B*sh.

Kerry needs to give one more press conference- not even address the controversey-- do not give the media any soundbites-- except to talk about the 103 soldiers who died in October because of B*sh policies. He should read off their names, ranks, age, and hometowns for the entire speech.

[Tarcat1]

83. 63. MSM keeps running the quote out-of-context

Given how the media works, shouldn't Kerry have better understood that anything dumb he said would be taken out of context? Its like the whole "I voted for it before I voted against it" flap. You can't just hand your opponents anything they can run with. Politics has always been about taking things out of context and most americans don't make the effort to learn context. People on here might, but most people in the country don't. Even those who try to stay informed don't because of the failings of the media.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

90. He didn't say anything "dumb"."Macacca" is saying something dumb.

Again, you have been posting nothing but disparaging comments about a statesman of the Democratic party...

And you are posting this on Democratic Underground.

Cognitive dissonance, anyone? MKJ

[LostinVA]

140. No they aren't, CT -- *yawn*

[truebrit71]

67. Absolute, complete and total BULLSHIT.

He stood his ground, he has nothing to apologize for, and the fact that the pretzeldent and his corporate media whores can so badly misrepresent this does NOT mean that Senator Kerry should apologize...

The LAST thing this administration, and it's lackeys need this close to the elections is constant daily reminders as to how fucked up this whole Iraq thing is...This will blow over by the next news cycle...In fact, it's already old news...

[BootinUp]

71. feigned outrage alert n/t

[zulchzulu]

75. John should apologize only AFTER Bush and Cheney apologize

After Bush admits he's a lying war criminal who was AWOL on his post with the National Guard and when Cheney admits that he is a treasonous chickenhawk draft dodger, perhaps John Kerry could then apologize for any misunderstanding about his statement, whcih is actually as true as was his intended statement.

Once Bush and Cheney leave DC and are banished forever, then John Kerry can "apologize".

[BootinUp]

78. Its too late.

Kerry played it his way yesterday, went on tv this morning with an excuse and a counter attack no apology. As you see, very few here think there was anything for people to take wrongly, so why did Kerry have to make an excuse? Why didn't he stand by his actual words, because they can be offensive maybe? Naaah.

[calmblueocean]

98. I agree, he shouldn't have used the word 'botched'.

He didn't botch anything, the r/w slime machine simply took his words out of context. He should just have clarified that it was a joke about the president, not the troops. He could've talked them through the joke, saying how Bush didn't do his homework when it came to Iraq, didn't study the problem, didn't make an effort to be smart, and that's why we're stuck in Iraq.

The only botch he made was in saying he botched the joke. I got it, and the audience did. The only ones who didn't were rightwingers trying to cause havoc a few days before the election.

[Kazak]

80. My mother thought [sic] me...

to call a spade a spade.

:shrug:

[Swamp Rat]

85. Apologizing will not make it go away - it will make it worse.

"The fact is, whether or not you like Kerry, he completely fucked this one up." - No he did not, but believing otherwise helps the GOP because THAT is the WHOLE POINT of this contrived fiasco.

1) Kerry did nothing wrong requiring an apology.

2) An apology that is given as a result of being pressured by bullies is a sign of weakness.

3) Apologizing will not make it go away. Instead, it will provide Rove with more ammo, playing right into his hands.

4) Why don't you and everyone else just drop the subject? Continuing a discussion on such an inane matter is exactly what the GOP wants us to do.

Stop falling for Rove's dirty tricks. Just drop the subject.

[redqueen]

87. Concern trolling is so in vogue.

Isn't it?

:eyes:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

95. Lots of "us" "we" "our" statements, to make DU'ers understand they

care. They're family. LOL. MKJ

[LostinVA]

141. It's the new fad

[Stephanie]

88. There are trolls on this board, bought and paid for by the RNC

You'll know them by their spelling, and their extreme "concern" that we admit the GOP talking points are correct before we somehow harm "our" party. Their trick is to pretend to speak for all of us, as one of us. We see it over and over and over again. Nobody cares that you're upset, got it? Nobody.

[KurtNYC]

89. Should he apologize to the Swift Boaters too ?!!!

He said the pResident didn't study and wound up stuck in Iraq. Why is that offensive to you?

[Liberal Veteran]

94. ARE YOU STUPID ENOUGH TO THINK AN APOLOGY WILL MAKE IT GO AWAY?

The only thing it will do is give the righties even MORE reason to deliberately misrepresent what Kerry said.

You are god-damned fool if you think an apology will make it go away.

[potisok]

96. Go John GO

My first post, I have sat in the balcony for a long time and
watched the show and have enjoyed. Its time for me to put
voice to a thought. If I fault Kerry, its because he is
putting this forward as a misunderstood joke. Have they not
lowered the standard for education or test requirements to
join the military? How many of our poor and less educated have
used the military as a way to seek education and a better
life. What Kerry said is true. When I was eighteen a draft
deferment was given if you continued you higher education, a
good way to avoid going to Vietnam.

I in no way am insinuating that the people who are serving are
ignorant or less educated or are any thing less than
courageous and brave. I thank each and every one of them and
their family for there service, valor and sacrifice. There are
a great many whom are highly educated, wonderful, super and
many other descriptive terms. There is also a percentage who
are there because there was no where else to turn, their
schools, families, education and county has failed them. Sent
them all to fight in a war irrelevant to the individual’s
education or motivation for them being there.

I enlisted in the Marines to avoid the draft, went to Vietnam
1970-1972. At the time I believed in my county and its
leadership. I came home jaded. The Dick’s, the George’s, the
Donald’s stayed home, was it because they were better educated
or better connected, had privilege because of who they were.
Let some one else judge. 

Before we went to war in the middle east I knew it was wrong
and believe to this day it is still wrong. We were led to war
through lies and corruption. A good many of our US service
members have given their lives for men with education and
knowledge, that doesn’t mean these men are not corrupt and
evil. 

I will go back to the balcony and watch, with hopes my
rambling makes some sense. 
Go John Kerry — Vote Democrat — Bring our troops home 

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

97. Excellent first post. Welcome to DU!

:hi: MKJ

[ProSense]

99. Wow! Welcome!

Excellent post! Glad to know you're nearby! You are a hero! Thanks!

[BootinUp]

100. There was a lot of truth in it

but there was some overstatement as well. That overstatement is what he should have apologized for. Instead he decided to fabricate a joke excuse. It don't ring true folks. Oh welcome to DU, perhaps you and I can get kicked out together.

[ProSense]

103. BS!

"Fabricate"? Bullshit! The audience laughed! They understood the joke! Post like this are part of the problem!

[BootinUp]

106. I guess you didn't read the post

I replied to.
Are we entitled to our opinion too?
:eyes:

[ProSense]

111. I did, but

I responded to your post! "Fabricated" is BS! Period!

[calmblueocean]

101. Welcome to DU!!

Congrats on making your first post. I just cleared the big 1000 mark a couple of weeks ago. I never thought I would, since I don't post that often, but here we are. Hope you keep on posting, too!

I did want to say a little bit about this post.

I don't agree that J.K. was making a joke about not studying meaning you end up in the military. It's clear in context that he's making a joke about the president not doing his homework about Iraq, not "making an effort to be smart" about how we went in, and that that laziness is why we're stuck in Iraq today.

It's the right wing that's trying to spin this to make Kerry sound anti-military instead of anti-Bush.

But it's definitely true that the military has lowered its standards to meet recruiting goals, and that if you don't study hard, joining the military may be one of the few options left to you to make a better life. What's wrong or offensive about that statement? It's utterly uncontroversial on its face.

I never fail to be amazed at how the right wing can take a kitten and turn it into a monster.

[Pawel K]

159. Welcome to the board, I do mostly agree with you

certainly what you are saying about the standards to join the military and why people do it is true. I have a friend that joined the marines right before the war in early 2003 because he fucked up in school and his life was going nowhere. The first year he came back to visit I could not believe what the marines have made of him, he was a grown respectable man. Unfortunately 2 years later in 2005 in Iraq he and 3 other friends were driving in a humvee that flipped over. All 3 of his friends died, he was the only one to survive. He had to under go many surgeries and now his skull is caved in which you can clearly see, the plastic surgery to fix this hasn't been done yet. I work with his mother, she was devistaded.

But the way Kerry said it, and again I know he didn't mean, will come off to most americans as if he said our soldiers are morons that didn't do good in school. In my opinion he should clarify that and apologize for any offense it caused. The debate is perfectly legitimate, the way Kerry said it 8 days before one of most important elections ever is not. If I am called by some a Bush apologist, a troll, or a freeper I honestly don't give a shit. But anyway you look at it we don't need this to be a distraction when everything was and mostly still is going our way.

[Midlodemocrat]

104. You know what? He's right. If you are stupid and uneducated you WILL

end up fighting in Iraq. If the fuckheads stay in power with more stolen elections, they will need to initiate a draft to keep this bullshit going and do you think the rich are going to war? Nope. Just like in Vietnam. The poor, the uneducated, the kid who can't get ahead is going.

[Guaranteed]

105. You're not a troll. You're just new. Get your freaking head down.

And find something to shoot back with.

[davekriss]

108. Bush needs to apologize...

...for lying us into an illegal and immoral war. Fight for that, not a Kerry apology! Our energy needs to be on Bush and the Republicans, not on a Senator not running for office who happened to have the last Presidential election stolen out from under him. That the Republicans are focusing on this shows how vapid and empty their agenda is, and how lacking their ammunition is -- they have nothing to run on except ad hominem aimed at a non-candidate! They are desparately trying to reframe debate!

Kerry did not say "stupid and uneducated", those are your words -- why would you editorialize in that fashion? It sounds like you're trying to spin the remarks in Republithug fashion.

What Kerry actually said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq." This followed immediately upon remarks stating Bush is in a "state of denial" -- he was referring to our dumb pRetzeldent, not the troops, but the remarks work on many levels.

And as to the reality of military recruitment: If you don't have the financial means to attend college, and if there are few other attractive economic alternatives available to you, you just might indeed join the service. Many in such circumstances do. The rascal multitudes, just "cannon fodder" or "useless eaters" to the Bush Base (remarks purportedly said in the past by GHWB and Kissinger, respectively), "fungible" according to Rumsfeld. The neocons have no motivation to create attractive alternatives to military service, as their imperial agenda is ambitious and its hunger for the blood of our youth is great.

[tuvor]

109. Stop drinking bush's lemonade.

It's got freeper backwash!

[Pathwalker]

113. Bushit, bushit, bushleaguebushit.

Hey - look over here, it's a mountain. No, it is not a mole hill, so stop saying that!
Would you like some sugar with your propaganda - it makes the BUSHIT taste yummmmmyyy.
There are entire books about Bush's inability to speak his native language, and if you don't know propaganda when you see and hear it by now, you never will.

[devilgrrl]

115. You should just leave.

That's right.

Leave.

Go.

Get lost.

Don't come back.

[Snivi Yllom]

117. Kerry just guaranteed he wont be the nominee in 2008

And for good reason too. The man has the worst political instincts, maybe only surpassed by Bob Shrum.

[yellowcanine]

119. Don't know about that. As the context comes out, it is clear that Kerry was not

talking about the troops being stuck in Iraq but Bush. The White Houe is winning the PR campaign at the moment but the whole statement is on the record and truth will prevail.

[Snivi Yllom]

120. that's not the point, its about winning the PR the week before an election

Kerry picked the worst possible time to stand up and be aggressive.

It's about understanding when to be tactical vs strategic.

[ProSense]

128. "worst possible time to stand up and be aggressive."

RW says boo, Kerry says sorry!

Fucking stupid formula! Unless you missed it, they created the outrage from a one-day old statement!

Boo!

[ClassWarrior]

138. You're right. There's never a good time to stand up and be aggressive.

So let's just resign ourselves to huddling in a corner and snivelling, Snivi.

:eyes:

And thank you for your concern.

NGU.

[Snivi Yllom]

143. don't be surprised of Kerry stupidly reanimates the issue Monday

after he confers with 50 advisers for days after the issue is already over, watch kerry manage to resurrect the issue the day before the election.

Yeah, that would be a really 'great time' to stand up.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

168. GOP op alert.

:-) MKJ

[LittleClarkie]

170. Doesn't need to stand up. Did it magnificently yesterday.

It's over.

[yellowcanine]

149. The only way it doesn't happen is to not criticize Bush at all. Not acceptable.

I am sorry but this is still a democracy. You really do not get it. This was a planned attack by the White House. If Kerry had not said something negative about Bush, they would have ginned up something from someone else's speech. This is what the WH, the Limbaughs and the Hannitys do. And you are letting them do it with your milquetoast prescriptions for how Democrats should campaign.

[ScreamingMeemie]

144. Will it? It didn't prevail with regard to Howard Dean speaking

to his supporters. :shrug:

[L A Woman]

133. I knew we were going to lose in '04 - as soon as he became the nominee...

...after Howard Dean was unceremoniously kicked aside for his "screaming" episode.

HE would have won.

[yellowcanine]

152. Well I was a Deaniac also but I seriously doubt he would have done any better

than Kerry did, maybe not as well. Dems turned out to vote for Kerry but Pubs turned out more in a few key states. Kerry came within one state of unseating an incumbent war president. And that state (and others) had its Republicans pumped up over a gay marriage amendment. Not too shabby imo. Those who say that Kerry did not do well in 2004 just do not understand the history of presidential campaigns very well, imo.

[puffthemagicdragon]

121. NO he does NOT n/t

[LostinVA]

122. Yeah, yeah -- whatever

Roll over like a junkyard dog after being kicked.

Niiiiiiiice.

[L A Woman]

132. John Kerry is a moron

Sorry, I can't stand him. He is so detached from the American public that it's embarrassing. He has NO charisma, his foot is always in his mouth and he seems to have no earthly idea what people are talking about in this country.

This is the idiot who couldn't beat the worst president who ever lived. This is a war hero who couldn't beat a draft dodger. And when he was repeatedly accused of "flip-flopping" by voting FOR a bill before voting AGAINST a bill, he was too fucking thick to explain that. (All he had to say was, "THE BILL CHANGED!!!!")

He is an IDIOT and he just reminded an awful lot of middle Americans that the "other team" isn't much better than the ones in power now. If we win back Congress next week, it will be nothing short of a miracle.

And why would he even TRY to tell a joke? He has the personality and delivery of a piece of cardboard.

I swear, it's like he was paid by the Republicans to say something stupid a week before the election.

[LittleClarkie]

169. Gee, that must be why he went into the military then.

Lots of stupid people in there, I hear.

[radfringe]

145. Kerry should apologize and here's how:

just had a quick conversation with a co-worker... about Kerry and whether or not he should apologize to troops..

I told the co-worker that Kerry should apologize and do it this way.

"I'm sorry you have an idiot for Commander 'n chief. I'm sorry your generals are afraid to speak up for you. I'm sorry you were sent to fight a war that shouldn't be fought. I'm sorry that you and I believed the lies.

If the Democrats take control of Congress, we will do all we can to rectify the situation as soon as possible, all options are on the table."

[fhqwhgads]

146. i disagree, but i won't stomp on your head...

truth is, i'm not sure why people are getting so worked up about this, on either side. but i don't believe sen. kerry should apologize, as his only crime was misspeaking. to apologize would be to grant the premise that he intentionally or unintentionally was insulting the troops, which is nonsense.

what i'd rather see is something like what was in hulsey13's journal entry (it's on the du front page: "kerry vs. bush - double standard"). hulsey13 lists a bunch of bush malaprops for which nobody criticized bush when they were made. other dems need to line up behind the senator and point out these instances. i'm thinking kerry shouldn't do it himself because he's not the story. make the asshole-in-chief the story.

enough cowering. play offense.

[Pawel K]

165. I agree and wish Kerry was this strong in 2004

but that is my point he mispoke, he did not mean what he said. When I say he should apologize I mean he should apologize for screwing up the joke. As I said above, the following would be perfectly okay:

I'm sorry if my remarks on tuesday caused offense to our troops. The joke I made was meant to say that if you are uneducated you will end up like Bush by leading us into a war you can't get out of. I am bad at telling jokes and for that I apologize. The outrage over my statements shows how desperate the Bush administration is one week before the election.

[Exiled in America]

147. IT DOES NOT GO AWAY IF HE APOLOGIZES! GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!!

Jesus Christ.

The is only ONE WAY - JUST ONE - to keep this in our favor. And it is to respond EXACTLY like Kerry has responded and for every Democrat in the country to have his back. We do ANYTHING ELSE, we lose.

The moment Kerry apologizes is the moment the republicans are STAMPED AS RIGHT in the minds of voters. It's the moment voters have their opinion of democrats CONFIRMED AGAIN as whining, spinelss, backpeddling wusses, soft on everything, including even defending themselves. And furthermore, it wouldn't END THE STORY. The GOP would continue to bring it up and talk about how its a classica example of how out of touch the democrats are etc etc. ONLY NOW WE CANT DEFEND OURSELVES BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY PUBLICALLY CONCEDED THAT THEY ARE RIGHT.

This is NOT some kind of lets all hug and be over it thing. This is an election! In other words, THIS IS WARFARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stepnw1f]

150. No... you need to go away

and doesn't every DLC democrap

[WI_DEM]

151. but will it go away even if he apologizes? will the media allow it to?

[loyalsister]

153. Haven't we all had this conversation in our personal lives?

During an argument with a SO when both parties have to explain what they meant?
The difference is he should have known better, and there's a hell of a lot more at stake.

[VOX]

154. No, he should not. He **absolutely** should not. There is nothing to apologize for.

Seriously. He went off script just by a hair, and the right wing jumped on it. AS yet, I haven't even seen the video in its entirety, where Kerry's Bush-jokes segue into another.

This incident is only a scintilla away from the right wing simply making up stuff (which they do anyway).

NO apologies, from Kerry or anyone else.

[Name removed]

157. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Xenotime]

162. Kerry does need to apologize and then shut up.

He's giving too much ammo to the enemy.

[OzarkDem]

163. Hiding this thread

[deaniac21]

166. Apologize for WHAT?

[LittleClarkie]

167. Nope.

I'm sick of people apologizing when the other side never does. He has nothing to apologize for. He has offered a small apology for fucking up the joke. That's all he did wrong.

Just think. They must have had someone staring at the man to pick up on a flub so quickly. And that means they know how the joke is supposed to go. Are they so worried about the man they have someone watching and waiting for him to drop a pronoun so they can pounce?

[Pawel K]

171. And Kerry apologized

People like Jon Stewert also said last night he should apologize (didn't catch Colbert yet so don't know what he said). I guess Kerry and Stewert, like me, are just GOP shills.

Thanks to the apology I am willing to bet everyone will forget about this tomorrow.

[windbreeze]

172. He needed to apologize for WHAT exactly????

for not using exactly the right words to say it's a rich man's war and a poor man's fight???? what the hell is wrong with speaking the truth all of a sudden...have we gotten so used to being lied too, that we now prefer lies???? ...he should have stood up and stated that he would NEVER apologize for telling the truth....the fact that he bowed down to pressure..doesn't win him any points with me...Christ, when are we going to LEARN to stop backing down, and stop eating OUR OWN??? We bitch because they act wimpy...then when someone shows a set, they not only get attacked by the repukes but they can't even trust us to back them..sometimes, no matter how we feel, we should keep it to ourselves, rather than post it on a public board...I have further thoughts about this too, but I am not going to voice what I think here, past what I already said....however, this I will say, I find all the negative threads/posts just plain sickening...shame on us...
windbreeze