How Many DLC Dems or even Well-Meaning Liberals DO NOT Understand Kerry's Remark?

[Leopolds Ghost]

"Stay in school and study hard, or you'll end up becoming president and getting us into Iraq."

That was the ABSOLUTE INTENT of Kerry's remarks -- NO reference to military service or recrutiment whatsoever -- the inference is purely in the eyes of the corrupt DLC Media who want ABSOLUTE CORPORATE CONTROL and a two-party duopoly of the UPPER class.

They will ELIMINATE Kerry '08 by whatever means necessary, because they consider him a traitor to his class and education background, due to his positions on war, free trade, and social justice (regardless of him not being a paragon of populist virtue -- if Kerry can't win, then no true populist Dem will ever win.)

Liberals should understand that and stop siding with Hillary and CNN.

in their bald-faced quotes like "obviously we will not have another contest like 2004" (Hillary)

and "Kerry's presidential hopes are now over", as CNN reporters recently decreed in a NEWS piece.

GRAND RAPIDS -- U.S. Sen. Carl Levin today called on Democratic colleague Sen. John Kerry to apologize for controversial comments about the troops in Iraq, calling them a botched statement by a "former candidate who doesn't (i.e. will never again) represent this party."

Hillary Clinton said: "What Senator Kerry said was inappropriate." She said it twice for good measure. (CNN clip)

Obviously, Adlai Stephenson was right. The people, or at least, the Blue Dog Dems ARE "too damn dumb to understand." (another intentional media misquote, by the way, for those of you who may be unfamiliar.)

Ed Schultz, an old friend of Clinton, spent TWO SHOWS going back and forth on this issue like it was a major issue, arguing with Clinton but refusing to back Kerry "if it WAS a joke" because neither he nor his callers understood that the joke was NOT about recruitment, it was about Bush's college degree, and it took ME until the end of the second show to realize what Kerry meant, and I don't think Ed has yet, and someone should point out the actual CONTENT of the intended joke to him on-air.

And Kerry, Clinton and the rest should have simply said "I made an off-the cuff joke about Bush being uneducated and becoming president and it came out wrong. As a veteran who has a college degree and many friends in the armed services, folks should understand that I was not referring to troops in any way, or military service, or military recruitment. None of that stuff. I would never joke about the troops. My record on Vietnam, my record in Iraq was one of defending the troops who were being abused and given orders by the administration to do things that were counterproductive to American security. And that is what happens when you have a president -- not troops, the president -- who is uneducated and goes into Iraq. As it happens we do NOT have a problem recruiting educated people into the military, our military is the most educated in the world. They are being led into battle by elected officials who are NOT educated, that was the point of my "botched joke" as I called it the other day."

[Kagemusha]

1. Just for the record

in public speaking, NO ONE is judged on the basis on what they may or may not have intended to say. They are judged on the basis of what they ACTUALLY say.

Kerry's not special.

[bryant69]

3. Well

when everybody knows what he meant and agrees to pretend he meant something else, well that's news.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Leopolds Ghost]

7. They DON'T know what he meant. They're "too damn dumb to understand"

the joke.

So was I. I and a host of other DUers were sitting here arguing that
Kerry was botching a joke and none of the people defending Kerry --
well, at least half -- don't realise the joke was in reference to
Bush being uneducated and had nothing to do with recruitment of
military personnell.

When you understand the joke -- which Kerry has apparently given
numerous times over the past two years -- THERE IS NOTHING THAT
NEEDS DEFENDING. Kerry should have said "I should have asked
Scotty for a rimshot, because I messed up that line. I don't
need to apologise to anyone unless they misunderstood my joke
and thought it had something to do with military service. It was
not a joke about military service or anything in connection with
military service, it was a joke about Bush being uneducated. I
know, if you have to explain a joke, you messed up, but there it
is. If anyone is in the military or has a son or daughter in the
military is offended by my explanation here, they should
write me about it personally, veteran to veteran. All I can say
to them is, I don't believe that the president is a member of the
armed forces. He is a civilian, and he is not beyond criticism
in time of war. My joke was about qualifications for public
office, about the president being too uneducated to properly
lead our troops. If I was into making jokes about recruitment
standards like numerous upper-class people I've run into who
cheer from the sidelines, me and my college buddies would have
never enlisted. They had other priorities. If anything, people
with Bush's record would have never cut it in the Armed Forces,
which is why he ended up skipping service in the Air national Guard."

[sandnsea]

16. That IS what he said yesterday

That's what everybody's BEEN saying - and too many have CHOSEN to believe the Bush distortion for their own political purposes. Some get caught up in that, I understand, but make no mistake, part of this is definitely Democratic Presidential politics.

[Leopolds Ghost]

18. I've been listening to Schultz, reading DU on this for two days, and was one of the original

people encouraging people on DU two years ago to USE this joke as a meme
back when Kerry first started using it.

And Schultz, and 7 out of 10 DUers by my count (including Kerry defenders)
don't know or don't remember the context of the actual joke about if you
are too stupid you might end up as commander-in-chief.

I didn't. I had forgotten the context and it took two days before Ed Schultz INADVERTENTLY reminded me of the original joke, which he STILL doesn't know about, so I know Harold Ford doesn't and Clinton and Biden doesn't.

When you botch a joke like that, it has to be explained in 5 words or
less before you move on. Like Jay Leno. What's not to get? Per Leno:
"I meant become president, not the military. After all,
Bush flunked OUT of the military but now he's leading us into a war
that our generals would not have fought, because smart people join
the military and dumb people get nominated to high office.
That was the joke. IT WAS FUNNY, but I MESSED UP THE JOKE."

It is a joke we have tried and failed to get Dems to adopt, and the
reason given was always that they thought it was disparaging to the
troops.

In other words... "PINK TUTU DEMS" ARE DUMB. THEY DID NOT
GET THE JOKE when it was told in its original context. "Education
is important. Otherwise, you might end up as President and get
us into Iraq."

They didn't get it then, they thought it was disparaging to troops,
because they have poor critical thinking skills. If there's one thing
people in the US with no schooling have, it's a sense of humor and
they understand a joke like that and know it's not about them or their
(undoubtedly better educated) cousin in Iraq. They know it's about
the President, unless you mess up the joke and don't deliver it
properly.

First Rule of Show-Biz: DON'T APOLOGIZE FOR A WELL-INTENTIONED, POORLY-DELIVERED JOKE.

Kerry's used it in all his speeches apparently. SO HAS JAY LENO.

LENO EVEN BOTCHED IT UP ONCE JUST LIKE KERRY DID.

WHEN WILL DLC DEMS ASK LENO TO APOLOGIZE?

They don't get the joke when it was messed up, either, because explaining it to them is pointless. "If you have to explain it, it won't wash with my constituents, because I know they can't be smarter than I am, and I don 't get it." They are like the Boss in Dilbert. They are anti-intellectual, elitist snobs who think they are better educated than the rest of us when they in fact are NOT (or else they would have gotten a degree in physics, or math), just priveliged.

That's why they refussed to use Kerry's joke, which is a perfectly folksy joke. They were afraid the rest of us would be "too damn dumb to understand"

Because it had to be explained to THEM (the DLC dems).

Apparently there is no correlation between education and willingness
to serve in combat, but there IS a correlation between poor education,
poor understanding of comedy and rhetoric, and lily-livered defeatism.

[seabeyond]

27. so its your fault, .......

wink

teasing

[Leopolds Ghost]

29. I could have warned them all. It gets worse. I just found out... Soylent green is...

hey, people are fungible right?

[dsc]

2. I hadn't seen the remarks until I watched Olberman from last night

(I tape them and watch them in the afternoon. I had assumed he had said something like or you will get stuck in Iraq which clearly would sound like the troops. Instead he said get stuck in Iraq. He really shouldn't have apologized.

[Leopolds Ghost]

10. You DO mean "or you will become president and send us into Iraq" right?

That's what Kerry meant. I found out tonight it's been
part of his stump speech for YEARS.

NONE of the people defending Kerry on DU tonight seem
to realize this.

They are defending him (as is Ed Schultz, and he's having
a hard time coming out from under Hillary's shell) rightly,
but for the wrong reasons.

I hear people saying things like "well recruitment
standards ARE low, but I agree you shouldn't joke about
it" or "Kerry's a veteran, it's his prerogative to make
self-deprecating remarks that military folks joke about
all the time" or "everyone knows..."

NO, NO, NO, the joke was botched and now Dems and Kerry
have taken an EFFECTIVE PUNCH LINE off the table willingly
at Rove's prompting.

"Stay in school or you'll end up like Bush and become President.
Everyone knows how much he learned about Iraq in college before
he took us in there."

That is the joke.

Kerry should keep using it, frankly. He should have said,

"It's part of my stump speech for two years, now CNN is pretending
I meant something about the troops. I was not referring to
troops at all. If you've listen to my stump speech a hundred
times, like CNN has, you'd know exactly what I was talking about.
You try giving the same speech a hundred times and not stepping
on your tongue once or twice and making it sound like something
else. I've heard Jay Leno give jokes that were intended to be
self-deprecating and came out sounding like anti-Italian or
anti-Semitic or what have you, and nobody laughed. I didn't
see Arnold Schwartzenegger go on-air and demand Jay to apologize
for something that was clearly not meant. Jesus Christ, stay
focused, people. Don't listen to CNN when they tell you I am
anti-troop."

[comradebillyboy]

4. Kerry's an idiot

his only saving grace was that bush was a bigger idiot. Hopefully this episode of foot in mouth disease will discourage another run for president by this dolt.

[BeFree]

6. Nice to meet ya billyboy

But you couldn't be more mistaken. Kerry is no idiot. He's so far ahead of you or I that unless one really focuses and takes the time to listen, his words confuse those of less intellect. And of couse, the media doesn't take the time to focus or listen, now do they?

So, if all you've seen of Kerry is what the media shows you, I understand how you could be so god damned fn wrong.

[LWolf]

9. He's not an idiot.

He is also not "so far ahead of you or I" that I find him confusing. I don't think more of his intellect than my own, or than many. :eyes:

He does sometimes come across as a little slow sometimes; like voting for the IWR and then being shocked at the use Bush put it to. I don't think that's lack of intellect, though.

For the record, I don't watch political tv, tv news, listen to political radio, or even radio news outside of NPR. My pov is not shaped by the media, but by reading his words, watching him in debates, and reading what his supporters and detractors have to say about him.

From my perspective, he is neither an idiot nor an intellectual giant.

[Leopolds Ghost]

11. What is your or billyboy's position on Kerry's 2-year old stump joke?

Do you feel it is "inappropriate and should be retracted"
or that it means "Kerry no longer speaks for the party"
in which case he shouldn't have been elected in 2004 because
he was using the SAME JOKE THEN?

Not one person has answered my question. NOT ONE.

Jesus Christ, Adlai Stephenson's apocryphal quotist was right.

The people ARE "too damn dumb to understand"

what someone meant when they give a joke they have given
a hundred times on the stump.

[LWolf]

37. I have no position one way or the other

on the latest "scandal." He doesn't speak for me, he never did. I speak for myself. I wasn't happy with his nomination in '04, and resented giving him my vote. When he conceded, I was done with him. His words carry no more weight with me than the guy I chatted with in the grocery aisle the other day. Whether or not he speaks for the Democratic Party is another story. Apparently, there are some Democrats who feel that he does, and some that don't. I guess it depends on which of those groups is in the majority.

As far as his public statement goes, since you asked, my position is this:

I'm not sure what is supposed to be "funny" about telling people that if you don't succeed in school, you can always join the military, which is my interpretation of his remarks. I think the "make an effort to be smart" part is condescending. If he was trying to say that failure in school makes you likely cannon fodder for some rich old white corporate politician's agenda, he said it pretty awkwardly. I am not impressed with the "stump joke." If that's not what he meant, I don't get it, and I don't really care.

[BeFree]

14. So, you gonna run for president?

Oh wait... look at the idiot prez. 'Course he never was elected, wuz he?

Anyhoo, I was talking at ol' billyboy, see I wuz thinking he's, ya know, someone from my, um, genre? Kerry is head and shoulders above us in intellect, he jus' don talk soo good.

[LWolf]

36. Nope.

I have no desire to be a politician, and you couldn't pay me to be president of the U.S..

I guess you are trying to tell me that you consider yourself ignorant, lol. If you are determined not to value your intellect, I sure won't try to dissuade you.

[BeFree]

39. Thanks for the comment

Nice to know and weed through those who just want to make themselves look big. I am no match for the likes of Kerry, and I doubt you are either. It isn't about how ignorant you are, you may not be, its about what Kerry is, and he is a man of intellect.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. I'm Curious...

On what do you base your assertion that Kerry is an intellectual giant on. I'm not disputing or embracing your assertion .


For instance before I deemed someone an intellectual giant I would like to know


-what schools he or she attended

-what grades he or she received

-what books he or she has written

-how he or she has advanced knowledge in his or her field

[LittleClarkie]

24. Must be why he went in the military

I hear there's lots of idiots in there.

:sarcasm:

[BlueIris]

35. Classy.

And ew. How on earth did you manage to get up above 1,000 posts?

[iamjoy]

5. Too Bad

In politics, once you start "explaining" (defending) your position or statement, you have lost.

added on edit:
Personally, I liked Harold Ford's comment on what Kerry said.

[Leopolds Ghost]

15. Harold Ford does not understand the joke?

Is he "too damn dumb" as Adlai was famously misquoted?

It is easy to not understand a "botched joke" but when
you have it explained to you, as I did and have now
done, to STILL not get it is mind-boggling.

No democrat should attack another democrat for making
a derogatory comment about BUSH. But apparently Ford
is too damn dumb to understand that Kerry's 2-year old
stump speech joke was misinterpreted and misquoted in
the same fashion as Buzz Aldrin's "One small step for man"
-- a line that makes no sense unless you are willing to
be intelligent and educated and INTERPRET THE SPEAKER
CORRECTLY, i.e. "charitably" -- a key term for anyone
who has ever gone to college, as folks like Ford and
Clinton are apparently insisting everyone has or will.

Anyone who has gone to college understands that in
politics, you interpret what the speaker intended to
say when the intention was clear, as it was in this
case since Kerry has been using this joke for years,
unbeknownst to Harold Ford and a host of DUers, surprisingly.

Probably the same Democrats who failed to pick up on this
joke when we were urging people to adopt it as a meme
back in 2004. Or don't you remember "Kerry's great new
line about Bush, 'Stay in school or you'll end up like
the president and lead us into Iraq'"?

Assuming ignorance on the part of the listener is a no-no
for anyone who claimes to be intelligent and college
educated, which Ford and Clinton are laughably asserting
we all are in typical PC, upper-middle-class fashion.

It's pure projection. They, not Kerry, are the ones who
think the enlightened, mostly-secular upper-middle class
should rule and the troops are dumb cannon fodder.

That's why they fall in line with Rove's playbook -- they
want the election to be about social issues and assuaging
the upper middle class, not economic populism, ending the
war and social JUSTICE. Kerry, for all his numerous
faults, is a mutual enemy of the DLC.

He's a canary in the coal mine for anyone to the left of Kerry.
Any of us to the left of Kerry is a fool to align with Ford and
Clinton on this non-issue.

[iamjoy]

25. Actually, It's What He Said After That

about how that didn't change the facts.

Of course, now I can't find that quote, 'cos the "Liberal" media only wants to play the first part where Ford criticized Kerry's comments and not the follow up which blasted Dubya's policies.

[Leopolds Ghost]

30. The trick with these media guys is to be curt, precise, and say what you want

and tie your statement to Republican accusations only to the degree that in light of the accusations your words are all the pithier. Never qualify your remarks. Dems have bought too much into the idea that Americans only like soundbites. The truth is the MEDIA only wants soundbites and they want to pick and choose the soundbites.

Don't let them... when called upon to say something to the media, repeat the same things over and over, NOT DUMB THINGS because you think Americans are stupid, that's what Rove wants Dems to think. but smart things because you know the media will be forced to quote the part you want quoted (and if anyone's ever been quoted in a newspaper article, you know you'll be quoted inaccurately anyhow.)

Rove and the Media specialize in making Americans think that Dems think they are stupid, by constant flattery and anti-intellectual appeals directed at people who are constantly barraged with media telling them they shouldn't let on how smart they are unless they have a lot of money because chicks dig money, not brains. The truth is, most people are smart and have been told that they're dumb or that "those people" think they're dumb. Create an insecurity complex on both sides, feed disinformation, divide and rule.

[blm]

8. Don't worry - Hillary and Kerry will discuss Iraq policy in what...TEN DEBATES?

And we'll see how it all plays out in the end.

Clinton got IMPEACHED because of a complicit media - NO Dem is immune to the targeting, but can one stick it out and PREVAIL with any integrity intact? We will see.

[WI_DEM]

12. They may have understood it, but they also may have felt that it was

becoming too much of a distraction which is why some of them called on him to apologize, for better of for worse.

[Leopolds Ghost]

17. You CAN'T APOLOGIZE for something that folks don't understand.

If I make a joke about Neocons and it comes out sounding
anti-Islamic or anti-Semitic, that's bad. But that's
obviously not the intent, and until people realize that,
they WILL NOT ACCEPT the apology.

The joke was NOT ABOUT TROOPS. It was not about Iraqi
troops, it was not about ANYONE going off to FIGHT in
Iraq.

It was a two-year old stump speech which you apparently
have heard before, but you may not understand that folks
like me had forgot Kerry had still using it, because
Dems foolishly failed to pick up on it.

Because it's damn funny.

This is becoming like "The Aristocrats". I suppose you
will ask the comedians who appeared in that movie to
apologize.

[NeoConsSuck]

13. What is the point of your post?

It doesn't matter what we at DU think, or for that matter, what the mouth breathers at freeperland believe.

It matters what Mr. Average Voter thinks. What his or her perception of what Kerry said matters. *That* voter is going to change Congress or Senate to Democratic or keep it Repuke.

What is the point of trying to convince ourselves? Think that's going to make a difference?

[Leopolds Ghost]

20. Convince ourselves of what? Do you have no clue what Kerry meant?

You can't, like Shrum or Clinton, do knee-jerk damage control on a
situation when you have no clue what Kerry actually meant.

First rule of show-biz: NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR A WELL-INTENTIONED, POORLY DELIVERED JOKE.

First rule of civics and rhetoric: ALWAYS ASSUME THE MOST REASONABLE INTENTION of the speaker.

First rule of comedy/fiction: Don't criticise someone for writing or saying something unless you understand what they meant and can explain it to others.

11th Commandment: Never criticize a fellow (fill in the blank).

By siding with RIGHT WING of the Democratic Party to attack Kerry, certain folks are violating every rule in the book, suggesting they were not, in fact, educated in a liberal arts college (where you may study all these rules of rhetoric and more, especially if you want a degree in poli-sci or advertising) and therefore have no business in the Army.

(which as Kerry knows, is the best educated in the world, thanks to that education benefit, you know, the one folks are always making jokes about.)

[nealmhughes]

19. I understood it directed at Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al. who have

had magnificent educations in the formal sense and yet did not take advantage of it to learn to analyze and make mistakes based on haste or else use one's education to browbeat others into their own camp.

Knowing Kerry's own education and military record and his long-term relationship with his enlisted former shipmates, how could it have been an overall swath of his scythe towards the ground troops?

It was towards BushCo, Inc. obvious to me. They are the ones "stuck in Iraq" not the troops, they are literally and proverbially stuck wherever they are, from Ft. Hamilton in Brooklyn (a gorgeous base) to Fort Dead Rat 250 miles from the nearest pizzaria or tattoo parlor in the middle of nowhere.

[Leopolds Ghost]

21. See, I'm one of the people who did not get this.

Because I had forgotten the original joke.

And I was one of it's big proponents when
Kerry first started using it back in 2004.

The original joke, also used by Leno (who
messed it up the exact same way recently):

"Education is important. Stay in school
and study hard or you'll end up as president
of the United States and take us into Iraq."

Kerry (and Leno, and Letterman) have used this
joke 1,000 times, and probably blown it once
or twice.

I forgot about it, someone should do a poll
because you can't fix a "problem" stemming
from ignorance, and I suspect most Americans
are ignorant of the joke Kerry's referring to.

They have NO CLUE and think that Kerry's statement
was even a veiled reference to Bush or anyone
serving as a troop or joining the armed forces, it
had nothing to do with that. As you said, it was
about qualifications for public office. You got
this alot faster than most people I bet. Ed Schultz
needs to be reminded of the original joke and not
just in a "convince me that's what he meant" sort
of way, which is where Mainstream Dems are now.

They have NO evidence Kerry's been using this joke
for two years because they are unaware of it, because
CNN sat on it. So folks like me forgot about it and
didn't understand what Kerry meant when he botched it
and CNN suddenly decided to play the botched version.

Does this mean I'm too damn dumb, just like
the lily-livered, pink tutu DLC crowd? Well
I haven't got a degree YET.

[WinkyDink]

22. I understand his INTENDED remarks. But Kerry should back slowly away

from trying to tell jokes.

[Leopolds Ghost]

23. Leno botched the same joke in the same way recently.

He got it from Kerry, or Kerry got it from Leno.

The audience booed and Leno said "rimshot please... it sounded better in rehearsal." End of story right?

Hillary et al sincerely don't understand the context of the actual joke Kerry was making. They think it has something to do with troop recruitment or troop morale.

The people defending Kerry, such as Schultz and people like me on the Internets who are reading about this have in many cases failed to pick up on what Kerry MEANT, so you can't expect everyone to have picked up on it, certainly not the beltway "Dem Strategist" crowd. so how can they expect him to apologize when they still don't get the joke?

[American Jesus]

26. I think the DLC's getting scared that we might actually WIN this election

They can't count on Diebold. They need something else to throw the game. So Kerry makes a marginal gaffe in a joke, which in the real world means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and suddenly, not only the Republicans and media whores, but sure as shit, the DLC are on the attack. They took the same script from the "Dean Scream" and changed a couple words. Never forget that losing elections and destroying the Democratic party from within are the ONLY purposes of the DLC

Now what made them throw their own 2004 golden boy under the bus?? That's the real question.

[Leopolds Ghost]

32. He went off the reservation

Kerry appealed to help from Beltway Dems and they threw their weight behind Kerry because they thought being rich, he would defend the interests of the duopoly and maintain the Democratic party role as loyal opposition to a "fundamentally conservative" electorate whose only interest in electing Dems, if you believe the DLC, is to maintain Roe v. Wade and targeted tax-cuts for Dem-friendly corporations, with no real social justice goals and an active antipathy to the working class, saying they were obsolete and should be retrained. I thought so too because that was what the DLC advocated throuought the Clinton term.

When he started talking about traditional social justice issues, although I can't say I found it more than mild but you could sense a degree of sincerity there, nevertheless it was too much for the DLC. They criticized even the mildest remarks that might "take us back to the pre-Clinton days of Massachusetts liberalism." Remember?

He went off the reservation and they concluded he had not "overcome" his unfortunate history as a peace activist after all. That made him a class traitor. One of the things people hated most about the 60's anti-war activists was the perception many Americans had that "they don't know how good they have it": i.e. the notion that rich people should behave a certain way, that as you grow older and richer you will naturally become more conservative, a ridiculous notion that is widely accepted in our society. Anyone who bucks it is considered eccentric at best, ungrateful at worst.

Ungrateful is the word they use in public for class traitors. Ungrateful or "unpredictable and off-message". They did the same thing to Dean, another millionaire who they initially admired until he had a serious shot at winning, now they are now trying to bring back on the reservation.

[Jed Dilligan]

28. Has no one pointed out that

without a draft and college deferments, what he supposedly said makes no sense whatsoever?

I'm a college instructor and have seen plenty of good students off to Bushwar.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. I Thought We Put This Issue To Bed...

.

[BootinUp]

34. You mean the worst joke ever told in recent memory?

The early news stories and the clipped video on the net in addition to the lameness of Kerry's joke itself made it extremely difficult to get the context unless you had seen Kerry's speeches before with the same joke, which I had not. In addition some of his supporters indicated there might be a reference to current recruiting practices that target drop outs or low wage workers.

At this point having seen longer versions of the video yesterday I don't doubt it was just the worst joke ever told in recent memory.

[mmonk]

38. Shameful.

:banghead:

[qanda]

40. The joke was lame even if it was told right

I guess humor is not Kerry's strong suit. Kerry already had his chance and blew it.

[Katzenjammer]

41. What's going on in Iraq is not a joking matter, period.

That Kerry would try to use a massive crime against humanity as fodder for a joke reveals how out-of-touch he is.

Can anyone here imagine someone saying "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you end up setting up slave labor camps and gas chambers and butchering millions of innocent people."