Bus Driver Fired After Flipping Off President

[Hissyspit]

http://www.kirotv.com/news/10212158/detail.html

Bus Driver Fired After 'Flipping Off' President Bush

POSTED: 11:48 am PST November 1, 2006
UPDATED: 5:37 pm PST November 1, 2006

ISSAQUAH, Wash. -- A 43-year-old Issaquah school bus driver was fired in September after allegedly "flipping off" President George W. Bush during his visit to Washington in June.

Bush was in town to campaign for Rep. Dave Reichert. The two were traveling in a limo headed for Medina when they passed several school buses full of students.

The students waved to the president and while waving back the president turned to Reichert and said the driver of one of the buses flipped him off.

A week later when Reichert called the Issaquah school district to report the incident he learned that the district was aware of the driver’s action and was investigating. The bus driver was allegedly bragging about flipping off the president to other bus drivers.

- snip -

The bus driver has filed a union grievance against the district, claiming wrongful termination.

MORE

[C_U_L8R]

1. someone give that man a high paying job :-)

[jobycom]

2. Give him Bill O'Reilly's. He's already a more accurate commentator. nt

[Cha]

56. ..

Yeeeaaah! :)

[seabeyond]

3. an adult responsible for children flipping someone off? and we

should support that why?

[cui bono]

51. Huh? The driver flipped him off, I think the driver is an adult. n/t

[jobycom]

61. Support him as what? As a bus driver, he needs to be reprimanded. As

a patriot, I'd buy him a drink any day.

[seabeyond]

62. if i were the boss i would pat him on the back saying

love you man,.... you are fired. there is responsibilities when he signed up. a teacher allowed to flip clinton off in front of her class? no.... fired.

and i would take the man out for a drink. even help him find a job,.... but if in contract (and i am sure) it states certain behavior forbidden, then he gets fired.

unless something allows for just a reprimand, but i would be surprised at that

[jobycom]

65. It's a little more complicated. He could argue that he was expressing

his political belief, not giving a profane gesture. Courts have ruled that one cannot sign away their rights to expression by work contracts or anything else.

Not sure how far that would get him. But there is a clear difference, legally, between flipping off another driver out of anger, and flipping off the president to express political disagreement. He'd have a strong legal argument. Is the school district willing to foot the bill for a court case it might lose, espeically if the ACLU or a major union got behind the suit?

[seabeyond]

66. there is a place and a time. i am all for expressing, but....

you lose me a customer for expressing personal views... then i express my view by firing you.

[jobycom]

69. different animal

You are describing a customer-business interaction. The law can't control what a customer decides to buy. But that's not the same as a public entity firing an employee of the government for expressing a political view. And you are still not fully considering the difference between a political statement and a personal statement. If I express personal views to a third party concerning the president, that's a personal issue. If I directly express my political opinion of the president to the president, that's political speech. There isn't a "time and place" where political expression is acceptable. It is always protected. The government can round people up and put them in "Free Speech Zones" nowadays, but that doesn't mean they can arrest someone for expressing their opinion outside of one.

And courts have ruled before that the offense a profane statement gives to the community is not enough of a reason to supress the right to make that statement for political reasons.

I'm not sure, really. Maybe they can fire him and make it stick. But it's still a more complicated situation than if he had flipped off a regular person.

[Systematic Chaos]

4. Does this mean he's going to Dizz-Knee-Land?

:shrug:

Dizz Knee Land
by Dada
album: Puzzle (1992)

I just ran away from home
Now I'm going to dizz knee land
I just crashed my car again
Now I'm going to dizz knee land
I just robbed a grocery store
I'm going to dizz knee land
I just flipped off President George
I'm going to dizz knee land (2)
I just tossed a fifth of gin
Now I'm going to dizz knee land
I just got cuffed again
I'm going to dizz knee land yeah
Shot my gun into the night
I'm going to dizz knee land
I just saw a good man die
I'm going to dizz knee land
Come on...I'm going to dizz knee land
Kicked my ass out of school
Rolled me out into the streets
Hitched a ride on a monkey's back
Headed west into the black
I'm going to dizz knee land

[bluestateguy]

5. If he did that on the job, that's unaccptable

[Eric J in MN]

10. Maybe unacceptable, but not deserving of getting fired. NT

NT

[girl gone mad]

37. So worth getting fired for, though...

:evilgrin:

[lonestarnot]

49. eeeew yeaya baby! So worth getting fired for, the feeling is true

freedom! :evilgrin:

[951-Riverside]

25. Your post is unacceptable

...in my opinion but do I think you should be banned, no.

[MrModerate]

6. One would think his behavior qualified as misconduct . . .

Especially if he bragged about it to students. Not lese majestie, but making an obscene gesture in the presence of students.

On the other hand, I can't imagine any union sitting still for a dismissal. Waaaay too trivial to cost you your job.

[anitar1]

11. Those poor kids ! I'll bet

they have never seen this gesture before, much less used it.---sarcasm

[uppityperson]

26. allegedly bragged to other drivers. Here is a bit more from story.

The bus driver was allegedly bragging about flipping off the president to other bus drivers.

The driver was fired in September. School district spokeswoman Sara Niegowski said the gesture was “not at all appropriate modeling for students on the bus.

[buff2]

38. “"not at all appropriate modeling for students on the bus."

and Bu$h IS??? That idiot is some role model,eh? FUCK BUSH AND FUCK ALL HIS WHINY PISSING AND MOANING THUGS!

[lonestarnot]

50. Who said the role model line?

:puke: Damn GREAT ROLE MODEL! Just say'n. :rofl:

[MadMaddie]

7. On one level he was working for the school district so he

is bound to represent them appropriatly...

on the other level it was free speech and he has a right to express himself...

[Mike Daniels]

70. So yelling "fuck you" to random pedestrians would have been fine as well?

Your employer has the right to restrict certain forms of speech while you are on the clock or using their property.

While you have every right to express your opinion your employer also has every right to kick your ass to the curb if it violates certain standards of employment.

[MadMaddie]

71. My subject line agrees with your position that the employer

has the right to fire him....that's the risk he took...

Is this no different then someone at work trying to shove their religion down your throat at work.....employers don't jump all of that....

A pedestrian walking down the street didn't run for a public office which answers to the citizens of this country....so no it is not acceptable to yell "Fuck You"....


For * he is the one that opened this level of dialog by calling Dems terrorist lovers.... is that not the same thing as "Fuck You"...just askin...anyhoo

[GainesT1958]

8. Wish I could have driven that bus...

That day!:eyes:

B-)

[Eric J in MN]

9. Not only don't I think that bus driver should be fired...

...but if a bus driver gave the finger to Bill Clinton, I wouldn't want him fired, either.

If school officials are upset, they can reprimand the driver without firing him.

[Kierkegaard]

15. Exactly.

I don't think this qualifies as something worthy of such a punishment. He should be reprimanded according to his misconduct.

It seems obvious that this is politically motivated.

[iamjoy]

12. Mixed Feelings On This

of course, it seems all too much a violation of free speech to fire a man for expressing his distate at Dubya.

OTOH, the man was at *work* and one can't blame the man's employer for having certain expectations of conduct from their employees.

If I shot the bird to some one at work, I'd probably be fired too.

There's no such thing as free speech or right to privacy in the work place.

[ConsAreLiars]

17. When you are a prole you have no rights as a human. You are

property, a cog in a machine. Clock in, and you are have no right to do anything except what you are told to do. Some, even here on DU, celebrate this as right and proper.

Fortunately, these drivers are in a union, and at least the union is likely to fight to save this defend this driver's right to act and feel like a normal human being.

[iamjoy]

23. Sadly, Yes

you are a representative of the company, they are giving you a paycheck, to a certain extent, they get to dictate your behavior.

[Kire]

39. Does the union have a comment?

Do we know they are supporting this guy? I wouldn't if I were them.

[ConsAreLiars]

45. I don't know of any any decision or statement by the union.

SEIU has a good reputation for defending worker's rights. Unlike you, they tend to side with workers against the institutions that claim to "own" them.

[Kire]

53. I'd like to see how this ends up.

I never was a member of a union, so I don't know how it works. I always lived in fear when I was working.

[DaveJ]

13. Bush is so dumb/jaded he probably thinks it's a friendly hello anyway...

Otherwise, there's no other way the people will ever get his attention.

[mitchtv]

14. As a Union stewart, I would say

the crime does not fit the punishment, and settle for a suspension.

[DaveJ]

16. It's not as bad as flipping off a civilian...

It is a politician's job to know what the people think. Since this bus driver has no other chance to voice his personal opinion to Bush this is all he can do. As silly as this may sound... punishing him is not only violating his free speech, but his ability to take part in Democracy.


Edit: This reminds me of how Bush's staff has to "pretty up" America wherever he goes.

[mitchtv]

18. On company time

you watch what you do and say

[DaveJ]

24. Well that's one of those problems with the 'way things work'

Most of us have come to accept that we have no Constitutional rights while we are getting paid. That's bad enough, and another topic altogether. Most people realize that as adults we have to do things that don't feel quite right, like giving up our rights, so we can put food on the table.

But this situation is different. This is a political leader that this driver will have no other opportunity to communicate with. He was just taking part in the Democratic process.

I mean if the guy were taking on his cell phone on company time (bluetooth while driving) he probably would have gotten a slap on the wrist or nothing at all. Express his feelings to a politicians and he gets fired? I understand that's the way America is today (and those who don't understand it likely need counseling), but it's messed up and twisted.

[mondo joe]

59. Has nothing to do with no constitutional rights while at work.

That's the same line the fundies use when they refuse to fill a birth control prescription, or refuse to drive a bus with a gay advertisement on it.

There are conditions of employment for any job.

And if, let's say, a fundy bus driver flipped me off because I'm gay you can bet I'd be calling for his job.

[AusGail]

19. If a school bus driver can be fired for "flipping off the president",

then why is it so hard to fire a "man" who is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands military and civillians.

[Cha]

57. Exactly! There's something

outta whack with this picture.

[yourout]

20. I smell a free speech lawsuit.

[Cleita]

21. I guess he shouldn't have done this on the job unless he

knew he could get away with it. However, bless him!

[Ice4Clark]

22. W has been flipping off America for years..............

does that mean we can fire the bassturd? I believe his daughter has too? or was that just a tongue job...........I can't keep up with her behavior.


http://www.monkey.org.com.nyud.net:8090/~ethan/uploaded_images/bushfinger2005-725302.JPG



video when he was governor........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_bylg-Jjz8

[mcg]

40. Pics of Bush flipping off America ...

Quite a double standard, eh?

from the video...








http://www.passitkit.com/images/bush%20finger.bmp

"Adam, Brendan, and I rose our banner (the More Trees, Less Bush one) and he turned to wave to our side of the road. His smile faded, and he raised his left arm in our direction. And then, George W. Bush, the 43rd president of the United States of America, extended his middle finger.

Read that last sentence again.
I got flipped off by George W. Bush."

http://jiveturky.livejournal.com/185733.html

[tinfoilinfor2005]

27. Inappropriate but doubt that it is a fireable offense.

Also inappropriate when the president flips off american citizens legally protesting him from the window of his limo. Fireable offense? Probably not. However; if same president wishes to have ordinary citizen fired for the same thing he does time after time, then the punishment should be the same for both.:mad:

[spacelady]

28. I have read all the replies so far & I was waiting for someone to say

That Little Baby Bush is SO Fragile, he Had to go TATTLE on an alleged One second gesture by someone who actually WORKS for a living. SHEESH what a maroon. Call the WAHHHHambulance. Can you imagine JFK doing that? GAWD, what a cowardly spoiled brat!

[Hissyspit]

36. Exactly! n/t

[BeHereNow]

29. Mr. School Bus Driver, WHY do you hate Amurikka?

Is it because you have little, if no medical benefits?
Is it because you know you will have no pension or means to
survive when you are too old to drive the bus?
Or perhaps it is because you know that a percentage
of the children who ride your bus are near homeless
and hungry due to Bush rethuglican economics?
Why, oh why, Mr. School Bus Driver?
Why do you hate Amurikkka?

BHN

[DaveJ]

30. You know what a COOL president would do?

(S)he would contact the driver's boss and ask for the guy's job back. Yeah, what am I smoking?

[Mind_your_head]

42. Yeah, that's what Bill Clinton, Al Gore, or John Kerry would do.....

...but that's not what an interloper like GWB will do.

[upi402]

31. Sec Serv interrogated a man at his job for comment to truck driver

who ratted him out. I don't know what he said but they left him there.
This is Germany in the 30's.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

32. ~Union grievance! ~ has been filed

this has got to be giving some * bots apoplexy and a few ulcers to boot!!! :rofl:

[Lisa]

33. Bush should be consistent. He regularly trots out a self-deprecating "joke"

... about people "not waving with all their fingers" -- for example, NYC sports fans when he was throwing out a pitch, or spectators along his motorcade route during a visit to Canada.

He also does not hesitate to claim that he supports the right of citizens to express their displeasure with him, if he feels this will make him look statesmanlike and presidential. If he really does feel this way, he could have simply ignored the gesture. Or, seeing how things have gone this far (and it's possible that some other person took it upon him or herself to punish the driver) -- a little note from the Executive Office of the President, requesting the driver's reinstatement, would be PRICELESS publicity. The driver would be put in the awkward position of feeling grateful to Bush, and even his critics would be forced to admit that he was pretty big about it. (Normally I would not want to give out free advice to the White House publicity department, but I will this time because I don't think they'd listen to me.)


p.s. I hadn't read djohnson's post before writing this, but it looks like we both have a similar image of what a "cool" President looks like. (Been overdosing on The West Wing on DVD, maybe?)

[Garbo 2004]

34. Anyone remember when some protestors reported that Bush flipped them off when he passed

by in his limo? IIRC this was during the 2004 campaign.

[Blue_Tires]

35. that's weak

my bus driver for 7th and 8th grades smoked like a chimney, flipped off everyone, cussed like crazy, and she also had to play that godawful country music at level 11....(and i went to an uber-RW catholic school)

the bus diver should have wised up and said he was giving bush the #1 gesture!!

it would be nice if someone had a photo of this....was it just spur of the moment? did he 'peel the banana?' or use the 'crank' motion?
did he use both hands, cross the middle fingers, and yell out "SCUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!"? Did he show off the middle finger while jamming it up his nose? or did he 'pretend' to rub his eyebrow in a secretive way?

the possibilities are endless!

[Kire]

41. I'm surprised nobody's posted a link to this yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Do-s1cdPk

[nicknameless]

43. Maybe the driver was just giving * a thumbs up …

Or maybe it was just his pen.

:eyes:

[buddysmellgood]

44. Another patriot steps up to the front line. Godspeed.

[emdee]

46. Isn't that equal to Cheney's F-bomb on the Senate floor?

Republicans applauded his bravery.
Hypocrites - can't take what they shell out themselves.
emdee

[lonestarnot]

52. Didn't dick shoot somebody in the face? Great role model there.

Another just say'n.

[emdee]

67. It's all fine and dandy if Cheney does it....

or any of the other Bush cronies.

I remember people who voted for "values" (Republican) defending Cheney's use of the F-word and ignoring the shooting (and the fact that he was certainly probably definitely drunk at the time and/or with his girlfriend). Blew my mind - still does.

emdee

[casus belli]

47. Doesn't Bush call that the "one finger victory salute"?

Maybe the driver was just trying to communicate with Bush on Bush's level.

[McCamy Taylor]

48. His union needs to back him up. That is what unions are for.

[Cha]

54. Good Luck to a Beautiful

Man! If we can't flip off the asshole who lied to get us into the War On Iraq and not lose our job..who the fuck can we flip off?

[mondo joe]

55. I don't blame him, but it seems to me like grounds for termination.

If I was on the job and started making obscene gestures at anyone I'd expect to be disciplined at the leasdt and possibly terminated.

That said, my fingers are crossed that he keeps his job.

[nolabels]

58. Dignifying * by giving him should get you fired

But you never know, this could be a secret plan by the bus driver to get a better job without having to give the customary two week notice that he was going to quit. Them bus drivers are very crafty and could very easily outsmart a * without even trying.

[Hissyspit]

60. .

[porphyrian]

63. Well, should a school bus driver flip anyone off?

I mean, I'd tip the guy for it, but it's technically not that surprising.

[jobycom]

64. "I do believe the President just gave you boys the finger." Remember this?

Then, a Bush/Cheney bus passed, followed by a second one going slower. At the front of this second bus was The W himself, waving cheerily at his supporters on the other side of the highway. Adam, Brendan, and I rose our banner (the More Trees, Less Bush one) and he turned to wave to our side of the road. His smile faded, and he raised his left arm in our direction. And then, George W. Bush, the 43rd president of the United States of America, extended his middle finger.

Read that last sentence again.
I got flipped off by George W. Bush.

A ponytailed man standing next to us confirmed the event, saying, "I do believe the President of the U.S. just gave you boys the finger." We laughed probably for the next half hour, and promptly told everyone we knew. Brendan actually snapped a picture of Bushy in action, but the glare and the tint of the bus windows make it difficult to see him at all. Nonetheless, it was the best possible reaction.

http://jiveturky.livejournal.com/185733.html

[Hissyspit]

68. .

[Generic Other]

72. Reichart's an ex-cop.

I'm surprised the creeps didn't have the driver arrested and sent to Gitmo.

And why didn't Bush close all the roads like he usually does when he's in the state? I thought you had to PAY to get close enough to him to flip him off!

[roody]

73. A good bus driver, any good school employee, is hard to find. eom