"Was John Kerry foolhardy?"

[Cocoa]

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061603.shtml
<snip>

Michael Bernique, who was revered as one of the gutsiest swift boat commanders, marveled at Kerry's brazen approach to battle. Bernique recalled how Kerry one day "went ashore in an area that I thought might be mined. I said, `Get the blankety-blank out of there.' John just shrugged his shoulders and left. John just was fearless.

"If you are asking, `Was he foolhardy?' -- he survived," Bernique said. "I don't recall anybody saying they didn't want to serve with him. I would not have worried about my back if John was with me."

Roy Hoffmann, who commanded the coastal division in which Kerry served, worried about Kerry, at least at the beginning. He said Kerry and some other skippers initially "had difficulty carrying out direct orders. You know, they were playing the cowboy a little bit. John Kerry was one of them. You don't go out on your own when you are given certain type of patrols, and we were having difficulty with that."

Hoffmann said the problem was corrected and he supported the actions on the day Kerry won the Silver Star. "It took guts, and I admire that," Hoffman said.





http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2067492

Sen. Kerry calls for filibuster of Alito

Unclear if Massachusetts Democrat has votes needed to block nominee

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. John Kerry has decided to support a filibuster to block the nomination of Judge Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court, CNN's Congressional Correspondent Ed Henry reported Thursday.

Kerry, in Davos, Switzerland, to attend the World Economic Forum, was marshaling support in phone calls during the day, Henry said.

He announced his decision Wednesday to a group of Democratic senators, urging they join him, Henry said. Kerry also has the support of his fellow Massachusetts senator, Democrat Edward Kennedy.

Some senior Democrats said they are worried that the move could backfire.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

1. DU This CNN Poll re Kerry

www.cnn.com

quickvote
Why do you think John Kerry wants to filibuster Samuel Alito?

Conviction
Politics

AT the moment politics is winning. DU The poll.

[oasis]

10. Only 42 % conviction at this time.

:-(

[bigwillq]

25. Done

Why do you think John Kerry wants to filibuster Samuel Alito?

Conviction 42% 26189 votes

Politics 58% 35455 votes
Total: 61644 votes

[Smarmie Doofus]

2. "Backfire"? In what way? n/t

[Cocoa]

3. in the 2006 elections

particular dem senators or the party as a whole paying a price for filibustering.

[Mass]

4. Well, the same Democrats said that in 2002 for the IWR

and in 2004 convinced Democrats not to attack * on terrorism.

I did not notice that we won the elections these two years.

[Cocoa]

8. that doesn't mean filibustering now carries no risk

it does carry a risk. Some or all dems might lose a lot of votes because of it. Or they might gain a lot of votes. We can't know for sure until Election Day.

[Guaranteed]

6. You know, I'm kind of worried about our country, here. nt

[bettyellen]

i know tweety, rush and the DLC all concur with that statement....

which makes you think, hmmmm.

[Cocoa]

9. but THEY say it means the dems shouldn't filibuster

while I am pestering the hell out of my senators to filibuster, I think the risk is worth it.

I don't have an opinion about the risk John Kerry took in Vietnam, but I bet he thinks it was worth it, though he knows he could have been killed or his men could have been killed.

[bettyellen]

11. and you're right, they are wrong.... if we're taking advice from

tweety or the DLC on matters of principle, we're in a heap of trouble, i'd say.
what i don't get is people here giving up just now, given the momentum this has taken on in the past week.
makes no sense to me at all.

[karynnj]

28. Given the casulty rates in the specific location Kerry was in

it seems his boats were safer than average, while he is credited with being more effective. In Tour of Duty, Brinkley explains that Kerry spoke to both his crew, whose previous skipper was injured in a bad ambush, and his peers about the details of the big ambushes that were killing people (or injuring them badly).

After listening, Kerry explained individually his idea of charging the VC ambushers - showing with paper cups representing the boats why doing that would give them more chance (if done as a surprise) because all the boats guns would face the VC. He then asked what they thought. The situation that he was trying to find a solution for was a bad situation that often led to death.

To me this is the opposite of recklessness:

1) He and another Lt went to higher ups to complain about the stupidity and risk of what they were asked to do.
2) When he was faced with no alternative to going into the canals, he:
a) Got as much information as he could
b) thought about it and considered alternatives
c) talked about his solution to others and asked for their opinions
d) sold the idea to the others
e) implemented the idea when faced with the type of ambuse he feared.

This sounds similar in some ways to the descriptions of his decision processes as a Senator.

[Generator]

5. This "backfire" shit just stuns me

what do they think they have that they can lose? Again, not only are two truths-the Republican and the real truth-there's two Democratic realities-the one that actually matters to real Americans-not just freaking politicians- and the one about how it appears to matter to those that already want us destroyed-our enemies, the Republicans-and all of those that already have all the power. Or the imaginary undecided voter-whatever-there is nothing to lose anymore!

All we have is our integrity and our truth if we don't have the numbers. Wars have been won on that. But of course, those people weren't politicians.

[EST]

7. I voted "conviction."

I don't believe it.

[oasis]

13. Self delete with apologies.

[Cocoa]

16. EST is with us, not agin' us!

he/she was referring to the CNN poll. :-)

[oasis]

20. Then I will self delete with apologies to EST. Thanks Cocoa.

:-)

[hobo_baggins]

12. call me sceptical but...

Kerry already dropped the ball once with the iraq war resolution once, and that came back to bite him in the ass, I think hes just trying to cover his ass this time, in preparation for another presidential run.

Not that I don't think Alito should be filibustered, I just question Kerry's motive for doing it.

[Cocoa]

14. by definition you are prejudiced against Kerry

which is fine, but you see how that works?

[Windy]

15. You people kill me... you don't support them if they don't filibuster

and if they do, its politics! Come on... what about standing up for what's right! Those of you who think this is politics on Kerry's part are the problem with the Dem party right now! Stand together and fight for a cause please and support all of those who fight for you and with you!!!! We will lose otherwise.

good god...what do you want????

[hobo_baggins]

18. I support the filibuster...im just saying its politics...

and kerry would have had alot more credibility doing it, if he hadn't already screwed up big time

[txindy]

17. Absolutely.

:sarcasm:

Slam him if he does and slam him if he doesn't. :eyes: Question his motive all you want. He stood up.

Time to find a new drum to beat.

[hobo_baggins]

19. Yes he did stand up, and I'm glad he did

but that doesn't put him above scrutiny.

I just happen to think its a political move, but hell, im happy alitos going to get filibustered

[txindy]

29. No one is above scrutiny, I agree.

The difference being that scrutiny comes after someone has actually done what they've promised, not doubting their motives ahead of time and suspecting the worst. That's prejudging. I'm all for scrutiny, but let's wait until there is something to scrutinize.

[Dr Fate]

22. Motive shmotive- So what? So he wants to be the President?

Folks who want to be the President would do well to lead- like Kerry is doing.

He wants to be President, so he is demonstrating his abilitiy to lead- I have no problem with that.

[WildEyedLiberal]

26. Oh MAN - you broke out a Kerry avatar!

Welcome to the club, Doc!

Edit: Check out the Kerry forum too, if you please. There's a lot of good hard nuggets of information and activism once you get past all the estrogen. :D Plus, I gave you props for your response to the "he's just doing this for 2008" meme, which I'm totally stealing.

[Dr Fate]

27. I'll check it out. See you there later. n/t

n/t

[karynnj]

31. If that were the motivation,

he would stick to:
-voting No (like most Democrats)
- saying he would vote against cloture if there were a vote. Then saying he did what he could.

[tjwash]

21. Hell no, good on you big John!

Fight the good fight, even if you lose. Come back bloody and beaten with a broken nose and two black eyes, but secure in the knowledge that you fought because someone had to, and you fought because it was the right thing to do.

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but I'm very proud of of you...

[BlueManDude]

23. the notion that fillibustering alito is politically risky is absurd

it is spin coming from those who are petrified of a fillibuster.

[Cocoa]

24. so Ben Nelson and Ken Salazar are the most courageous dems?

by forgoing the clear political advantages of filibustering?

[txindy]

30. Okay, now I'm confused

I thought BlueManDude was saying that Dems who oppose the filibuster fear it for no good reason. That would include Nelson and Salazar, if they oppose a filibuster. It will not be politically harmful. Although Nelson (the Nebraska Nelson, I mean) probably fears it because he's really a DINO.

That's the way I just read that post, anyway. :shrug: I could be wrong. It's late and I'm loopy with delight that Kerry is planning to filibuster! :applause: That's my President! :patriot:

[BlueManDude]

33. Clarify - There is no political price to be paid by fillibustering Alito

[no_more_rhyming]

32. John's political career can not

withstand another loss. IMO

[karynnj]

34. That's a HUGE leap

Senator Kerry was elected to be the Democratic nominee and came close to winning - it was not a Dukakis or McGovern blow out. Less than 25 people get the Democratic nomination in a century.

There are likely only about 10 or so people who have a real chance at seriously being considered as President - and Kerry was and is one of them. Clearly getting the nomination is a less than 50% liklihood for any of the possible candidates.

But to say his career cannot withstand "another loss", ignores's Senator Kennedy's comment that if Kerry opts to stay in the Senate he is very well positioned to be a very powerful Senator. Kennedy likely has a clearer view on Kerry's likelihood to keep his MA seat - and in 7 years, he would likely be the Senior Senator and he would have almost 30 years of senority - and the respect of many as an expert both on foreign policy and on finance.

Being a top Senator is not career failure.