Dem Senators Who Say They Won't Support a Fillibuster (WHAT'S IT MEAN???)

[Beetwasher]

The way I see it, this can mean one of two things.

1. They WILL vote FOR cloture.

Or

2. They won't vote AGAINST cloture (abstain)

Of all the Senators who have come out to say they won't support a filibuster, I haven't heard any of them (yet) say that they WILL vote FOR cloture. (I may have missed it if they did say it, please post links if you've got 'em).

Now, you may ask "What's the difference?". There's a significant difference with important ramifications.

If a Dem Senator who is saying "I won't support the fillibuster" means he's going the route of #2, the Senator has the option of ABSTAINING. The effect of abstaining is PASSIVE support of the filibuster that gives the Senator political cover. They can still say that they didn't support the filibuster because they didn't vote against cloture. Remember, the burden is on those who want cloture to get 60 votes, NOT on those who support the filibuster to get 41. While some Senators may be saying they won't support the filibuster, it doesn't automatically mean they WILL vote for cloture. Just remember that, because I can see some wrangling happening, and I'm not necessarily saying this IS the case, just that it's possible that this a strategy that is being employed by the Dems to give some of the Dems who need it political cover AND catch the Repubs off guard.

Saying "I won't support the filibuster" can very easily mean, "I won't vote AGAINST cloture". It doesn't necessarily guarantee a vote FOR cloture.

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. It means they either support Alito or don't give a rat's ass either way nt

[Beetwasher]

2. I Don't Believe That's True

n/t

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

5. It Means They're Democrats

Cowering in fear, and QUITTING is the one thing they're really really good at. Why do you people keep yelling at them for giving in and compromising with those big bad republicans?

It is unfair for you to expect a spine, when doctors have already determined they HAVE NO FUCKING SPINE!

[John Q. Citizen]

6. Thanks for your help! /sarcasm off n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

3. These distiction you bring up are very important. Let's roll! Please

call e-mail or fax these Senators and ask them to either voted against cloture or vote "present" ie abstain.

[Beetwasher]

4. Yes, Technicality Speaking "Supporting The Filibuster" Means

Actively voting against cloture. A Senator can claim he's not supporting the filibuster and then abstain from the cloture vote. That way he gets political cover while still passively supporting his party. I see this as a very real possibility.

Remember, this is politics, you have to read very carefully into what is actually being said. I haven't seen any of these Dems who are saying they are not supporting the filibuster actually saying they WILL vote for cloture.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. Folks, let's get this voted up to greatests. Beet's idea could work.

[Beetwasher]

9. Thanks, Though It's Like Banging My Head Against A Wall

People keep clinging to this notion that the Dems need 41 Senators to support the filibuster. They don't. The REPUBS need 60 Senators to actively OPPOSE the filibuster and vote FOR cloture.

The REAL question is DO THE REPUBS HAVE 60 VOTES FOR CLOTURE??? I'm not so sure.

[KoKo]

8. That's the way it could work if those Dems care about their activists....

What you say would seem to be a clever way of "outfoxing" the Repugs by using rules that may be in a grey area to our advantage.

Is there a "WILL" to do that? I hope so.

[Beetwasher]

10. I'm Hoping That's Exactly What's Happening

Biden, Landrieu etc., it seems to me, have been very careful in saying they "won't support the filibuster". But I haven't heard that they WILL vote FOR cloture. It's a big difference.

[Anita Garcia]

15. Landrieu supports cloture

NAACP Demonstration today outside of Sen. Landrieu's NOLA office.
More information here:
<http://politicalswitchboard.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=7161&st=0&p=42586&>

[Beetwasher]

18. Link?

That link says nothing about Landrieu supporting cloture.

[Anita Garcia]

20. Her opinion may be changing

"Because we have such a full plate of pressing issues before Congress, a filibuster at this time would be, in my view, very counterproductive," Landrieu said in a statement. "... We simply cannot afford to bring the Senate to a halt at a time when we need its action the most. If called to vote for cloture on Judge Alito's nomination, I will vote yes."
<http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=507998>

The link posted supports demonstrating against Sen. Landrieu for her statement above.

[Beetwasher]

22. She Needs to Be Worked On

Thanks for the link. She DOES say she's still looking at his record, so there's still hope.

[Anita Garcia]

25. Met with Asst. to Chief of Staff at Landrieu office today

Sen. Landrieu will vote for cloture.
More information here: <http://politicalswitchboard.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=7200>

[meow2u3]

19. I wouldn't be surprised if the punks took Katrina relief away from her

Unless she voted for Scalito.

Goddamn Repuke extortionists!!!

[John Q. Citizen]

11. KoKo01 is there a will to get this where people can see it? Vote it up

[KoKo]

13. Kick and Recommend!

[John Q. Citizen]

24. muchos gracias!

[debbierlus]

12. Kick

Kick

[xynthee]

14. I guess I never thought about how this works before

If the burden is on the Republicans to get 60 votes, that gives me a glimmer of hope!! For some bizarre reason, I was thinking it was up to the Dems to actively support a filibuster. I'm such a typical Amurkan - almost completely ignorant of how our government works.

Thanks for bringing that to our attention! I feel less despair already.

Maybe we should call the wishy-washy ones and ask them if they will vote for cloture . . . .

Recommended!!!

[Amaryllis]

23. Call the wishy washy ones and ASK them to vote AGAINST cloture!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. It means they're political hacks either way.

[leftofthedial]

17. bidniz as usual

[Vinca]

21. This is a good point. If they don't get 60, debate goes on.

Is there any shred of hope any of the people voting for Alito will fail to show up for the cloture vote? Interesting.

[Zan_of_Texas]

26. Yeah, there is a shred.

Problem is, the Rs can hold ANOTHER cloture vote again after a while, having rounded up another vote or two .. or used their charms of kneecap breaking and other enticements.

Right now I'm thnking the margin is gonna be a handful of votes.

But, the Dems could squeak by .. and then HAVE TO REMAIN STRONG even in the face of R anger and retribution and their paid press pundits howling.

[dweller]

27. just a little

:kick:


dp