What is Saddam being sentenced for?

[shance]

WMDs? Saddam didn't have them.

9-11? Saddam was not involved.

Aiding Al Qaeda?

Iraq was a secular government and Al Qaeda favors religious rule.

Saddam and Al Qaeda were enemies.

Killing his own people?

Evidence suggests Iran gassed the Kurds as an act of war, and in any event, the US Government has killed more Iraqis than Saddam's regime ever did.

So, what is Saddam being sentenced for?

Why should we believe an Administration and a government that told so many lies about him to trick us into a war of conquest?

[mike_c]

1. and when will American politicians and military commanders hang...

...for killing more Iraqis than Saddam?

[shance]

5. When will there be accountability for those who deserve it?

A good question and a good point you made.

If there is no justice there is no civility.

[mtnsnake]

2. He was sentenced for killing 148 people in 1982 I think

When will Bush be sentenced for killing the countless thousands of people in Iraq all over a lie for oil?

What's good for one dictator should be good for another. Equal justice should be allotted for Bush.

[Bitwit1234]

3. bUSH AND his WAR CRIMES

They have filed a suit against bush and his administration for war crimes. Will they STOP THE PRESSES when he goes to trial, gets convicted and sentenced.

[shance]

6. You know, I hear what you are saying, but I don't believe it's Bush Jr

who is the instigator.

I think to be fair and punish those who truly deserve it, we need to go back to Iran/Contra to find and try the true criminals.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mike_c]

7. no-- Americans have killed nearly two million Iraqis since 1990...

...and "crimes against humanity" is a knife that cuts both ways. The Saddam Hussein verdict opened a door that Americans should have wanted kept closed, IMO-- but they opened it for political reasons, just like they killed most of those innocent Iraqis. This verdict is shameful coming from an American puppet court. It highlights the fate American politicians and military commanders deserve just as much as Saddam Hussein. You think that "makes us look bad?" Nothing makes us look as bad as the hypocrisy of this verdict.

[shance]

9. Well said Mike. Some individuals value 'image' more than truth.

And the reality of what this Administration has inflicted in Iraqis and that it has happened in our name.

[NNN0LHI]

11. Mike. Saddam was a BAAAAAD man so we shouldn't tell the truth

I thought you knew that?

Don

[originalpckelly]

20. There is nothing wrong with wanting war criminals to be prosecuted...

but we shouldn't deny some criminals crimes and focus on the crimes of others.

All war criminals should be prosecuted, and the Saddam verdict should be the first step to prosecuting his enablers, some of whom still serve in our government. They have a date with a war crimes tribunal, just like Saddam.

[Brian Stevens]

26. Kudos Mike

:toast:

It seems there are DUers on here that have no sense of balls to see the grade A 100% truth.

[Union Thug]

8. I understand what you are getting at, but I disagree with you.

The US is complicit in the making of Saddam, and as someone pointed out above, Bush and his corporate fascists have butchered hundreds of thousands of people so that they could secure the fortunes of thier elitist families and friends. There is little difference between the two - oh, except the latter controls the propaganda machine.

No one is making excuses for Saddam. Rather, it's a matter of putting the whole thing in perspective and forcing analysis through an objective lens.

fwiw...

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

13. So, basically...

If that would have been the verbatim excuse for finding Saddam not guilty, you'd be cool with him walking out of the courtroom scot-free?

The "but look how guilty THAT OTHER GUY is!" defense doesn't work well in jurisprudence.

Let us not forget that a number of respected international rights agencies were throwing the book at Saddam back when our dear Leader was still doing coke out in the open. "But we supported him" is a fatuous defense at best, as this country supports a large percentage of countries around the globe. Always has, always will.

[Union Thug]

16. Did I say "walking out of the courtroom scot-free"?

No. I am saying that everyone complicit in the deaths of thousands should be held to the same standards.

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

18. So he's not guilty until they're all guilty?

Good luck indicting the whole system at once...only happens in books and movies.

[Union Thug]

27. Um, did I say that?

The bottom line is that trying and convicting Saddam without holding others accountable undermines the credibility the legal system, US, Iraqi, or world. Without consistently applied standards of justice, the whole system is a farce - a dog and pony show to pacify the the masses and insulates, by virtue of their social/economic status, the the privileged few from accountability.

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

31. Hopefully more will follow.

I understand your argument. I just don't see how Saddam going it alone makes him less guilty.

[shance]

19. Define your very broad brushed use of the word "support".

Is it enabling and economically supporting of criminal activities?

You have given nothing to the legal validity as to why Saddam Hussein has been sentenced.

It has no bearing on how you may feel about this man, where is the legal justification for his sentencing?

Do you believe in the rule of law, or is just for those who you believe are guilty or "look" guilty to you?

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

30. Whoa there.

You're the one who seems to lament this sentence because Bush isn't a co-defendant. Even if he was, one generally can't get off by pointing and saying, "But I got the gun from HIM! What about HIM?"

I don't need to resort to whether people "LOOK" guilty...go back and read Amnesty Intl's reports on the guy's regime from way back.

[originalpckelly]

14. There is a difference between putting blame on us...

which is truthful, and denying Saddam's crimes.

I wholeheartedly agree with our nation being blamed for supporting Saddam, but I totally and forcefully disagree with denying his war crimes.

That is exactly what the OP did. The UN report establishes a long series of war crimes against the Kurds, and does not imply Iran in anyway. Saddam is responsible for Anfal, but the OP tried to obfuscate that by blaming Iran, or suggesting Iran was involved.

That is complete nonsense cooked up by those who support Saddam or those who are so against the war, they only wish to see that opposition in simple terms of black or white. They eliminate facts like Anfal to accomplish that.

The truth is not black or white, while Saddam was a bad guy, and had committed war crimes like Anfal and Dujail (among many others) he was not a threat to the US and therefore did not warrant action.

^^Truth^^

That is why I post with such anger, because someone is denying a crime to support their position, and as someone whom holds the same position I am quite offended that they would try to associate war crimes denials with the anti-war movement.

[Union Thug]

22. On that detail, I agree. I am not denying

Saddam's complicity. However, all players have a part in this and all should be judged by the same standards.

[originalpckelly]

25. I hope you'll see why I'm angry...

The OP tried to deny a war crime, just to fit his/her perspective. This is exactly what the Republicans have been doing for many years now. It is also the same technique used by the Holocaust deniers.

Iran is guilty of its own crimes, as is our nation (leaders), and Saddam Hussein.

None of these people should be free from prosecution. You are not allowed to take hostages as the Iranians did, under international law.

You are not allowed to gas large swaths of your country in a genocide, under international law.

And you are not allowed to start wars of aggression, as Saddam and Bush have both done.

None of these crimes should be denied. Hence my strong disagreement (aka flying off the handle) when I read the OP.

[shance]

10. Answer the question PC. What is he being executed for?

n/t

[Nashyra]

12. Rumsfield and Saddam 1983

Don't forget Saddam is being rightfully convicted for his crimes IN 1982, why is there the picture of Rumsfield with him IN 1983?

[originalpckelly]

17. You are right, our own leaders are guilty of war crimes...

and they should be convicted and a sentence appropriate should be handed out, but that doesn't excuse the crimes of Saddam Hussein. (As the OP tried to do with war crimes denials.)

[shance]

23. How in the world to you know what my reasoning was for posting?

Who are you to post here and accuse me of trying to excuse Saddam Hussein?

You don't know me.

You obviously don't know and don't care about the rule of law either and its significance.

You like to throw accusations and tell others to shut up because you have no idea what you are talking about.

[originalpckelly]

29. You repeated a myth used by some to excuse Saddam of his war crimes...

Iran did not have a role to play in gassing the Kurds. Anfal was a genocide carried out by Saddam Hussein.

I should be specific, you were spouting something you had little knowledge of. In the process you were repeating a war crimes denial myth, not all together different than someone trying to deny the Holocaust.

You may have wanted that (I highly doubt that) or you may not have read about the Kurds being gassed. (Most probable.)

You should know that there are certain people in this world whom publish articles just to excuse Saddam, because they are Sunni Arabs, and not Kurds.

You may have come upon one of these articles, but they are no different than ones denying the Holocaust. Just a different ethnic group and less people who were killed.

I have provided you with the official account from a most reputable source: the UN Human Rights watch.

Their report is obviously far more credible than any writing you will find elsewhere on the internet.

[originalpckelly]

15. He has been tried and convicted for his reprisals against a small

Shi'a village, after they tried to assassinate him.

He may yet go on trial for Anfal, but please do not deny that Anfal happened. Don't associate that with the anti-war movement. I stand against all horrors, whether by us or by Saddam.

Do not conflate his war crimes with ours to excuse his. Certain leaders in our country should be charged with the same war crimes, yes, but that does not excuse Saddam from his war crimes.

We want those American leaders to be convicted like Saddam, but we shouldn't remove the significance of Saddam's crimes just because our own leaders are not being prosecuted as they should be.

[Squatch]

21. A-fucking-men.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

24. Saddam Is A Criminal Piece Of Shit Who Deserves To Rot In Hell.

Though I don't agree with putting him to death, as I don't agree such a thing is ever truly appropriate, he does still deserve as harsh a punishment as one can receive as he absolutely was a murderous thug brutal piece of shit that should spend the rest of his life suffering. Fuck him, and may he rot in hell as the piece of shit he is. I'll never be so blind with my hatred towards shrubby that it causes me to lack critical thought and personal logical integrity to such a degree that I then excuse other completely evil mother fuckers simply because they are against shrubby. Saddam is most definitely someone we shouldn't be supporting in my opinion. Let him rot.

[stepnw1f]

28. For Being an Expendable US Puppet

[LynnTheDem]

32. 24 years ago, Dujail villagers attempted to assassinate the president

of Iraq.

148 Shia villagers were tried by Iraq's Revolutionary Court in 1982, found guilty of conspiracy to murder, and were later executed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4921864.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1756765,00.html


Some day, should America be invaded & occupied, could George w. bUsh stand trial for the Americans he ordered executed? The difference, of course, is in America all our trials are fair & open and absolutely follow the rule of law.

[shance]

33. "In America all our trials are fair & open and absolutely follow the rule of law."

Really?

I'm not sure everyone would agree with that statement.

[LynnTheDem]

34. Only fools would agree with that statement.

And rightwingnuts.

Oops, oxymoran!