We know Fundies don't believe in "born Gay," but why can't they even believe in "born Straight"?

[troublemaker]

There's a theme in all RW and Fundy gay scandals that the perpetrators are said to have succumbed to temptations that afflict us all.

Without meaning to be offensive, I have never resisted the "temptation" of gay sex. It doesn't seem gross and it doesn't seem appealing. It's just not tempting to me. It's something for other people to be into. (Like "Survivor" or ice hockey or broccoli.)

But the Christan viewpoint seems to be that all men are born bisexual and must struggle to resist the obvious allure of male flesh to make the right "choice."

That argument is handy in order to demonize gays as willful but it seems a long way to go just to be a bigot.

The most obvious flaw in the idea that gay people "choose" to be gay is that very few straights can recall ever choosing to be straight. But it seems that hetero Christians get to pat hemselves on the back just for "choosing" what comes naturally to them.

Has anyone else been puzzled by this religious doctrine of universal bisexual lust? And does it follow that fundy men are likelier than average to be bisexual, since the doctrine makes sense to them?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

1. You've made an interesting point. Apparently, they believe that

most people are having this terrible struggle between competing desires, rather than just living what we are, gay or straight.

I heard a member of Haggard's church interviewed, and, she said, paraphrased, that it could happen to anyone, and once you're in it, it's almost impossible to get out.

I think "it" was gayness. And it was the most bizarre thing I'd heard in a while.

Once I read your OP, that statement made more sense.

Sheesh.:eyes: MKJ

[TahitiNut]

2. I always wonder how difficult the choice was for people who believe this.

I don't recall making any such 'choice.' Kathy ALWAYS attracted me more than Keith. No contest. Indeed, it has always puzzled me how women find men attactive - more specifically, me. It's a mystery.

:shrug:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

4. As a straight woman, I sometimes wonder, too, LOL. I guess for me

the attraction is more visceral than cerebral.

It's not something I think about. I am attracted to men, and they drive me crazy at the same time! MKJ

[aquart]

3. I remember sitting down with some friends....

We were gay, lesbian, straight.......and we asked questions about how, why....details..."You LIKE that? Really?" And....."How did you KNOW?"

Coming out can be damned confusing...particularly if you're keeping everything you feel a secret and you can't compare it (this was long before Stonewall or the internet).

I don't think anyone in that room was ever confused again. And it was pretty clear that sex without that je ne sais quois of preference did get a reaction of "gross." We like what we like and the rest of it is "eewwwww."

[JohnnyLib2]

5. Haven't heard the bisexual aspect, but "it's a choice" seems

popular in this part of the Bible Belt. The thinking (often, the preaching) seems to be that same sex preference is a deliberate choice of sinfulness and leads straight to hell, etc. Pretty powerful form of oppression, especially for the very young teens who consider coming out.

Very serious, ugly business, this fundie gay bashing.

[atommom]

6. I've always wondered about that. The homophobia is classic

reaction formation ... strongly denying and condemning others for traits you know you have, deep down. I've never had to struggle with a "choice" about being straight or gay, and I don't know anyone who did, except for some friends who were religious and had trouble coming to terms with being gay.

[eallen]

7. In gays, repression. In straights, arrogance.

The gay fundamentalist stays in the closet by convincing himself that at bottom, he's no different from any other man, and merely has to struggle with temptation. Even hearing from the typical straight man that we have no such temptations, he still figures this is something Satan has done to warp his heart.

The straight fundamentalist can hold the unsaid thought that God has blessed him, by not even allowing him to feel such temptations.

In both cases, it reinforces their faith, and continues the idea that the right thing for gays to do is to suppress their desires, get married, and live life in a closet so tightly shut that they don't even admit that is what they are doing.

It would be hilarious, were it not for the damage it causes.

:hippie:

[stepnw1f]

8. Excellent Way of Framing the Debate

Maybe they are all attraced to both sexes?

[Mythsaje]

9. I was talking to my dad several months ago

who doesn't have any particular animosity toward gays (his old cribbage buddy was most likely gay...he moved away a few years ago). I told him that I didn't think it was a choice and he said, "really?" (I don't think he gives a damn whether it's a choice or not, actually).

I answered back saying, "Well, I don't remember making the choice to like girls. Do you?"

He didn't.

I had a similar conversation with his girlfriend (of seventeen years or so now--they might as well be married) a couple weeks later. She's pretty reactionary by nature. She didn't like Dad's gay friend (refers to him as "that fruit") and is, more or less, suspicious of anyone who isn't just like herself.

She watches a lot of Jerry Springer on TV, which I think just rots the mind.

Anyway...I told her the same thing as I'd told my dad and she couldn't argue either. In fact, she ended up admitting that, from what she could tell, gays tended to be "very nice" people.


That's me...winning hearts and minds a little at a time.