A Pencil, Paper, and a 20 Year prison sentence for anyone who 'miscounts' is all we need

[symbolman]

I think this whole electronic voting thing is based upon some kind of perverted "CONVENIENCE" thing for both the public and the MEDIA.

We all know that computers can do thing a thousand times FASTER than a Human, but when they fuck up it's TEN THOUSAND times WORSE.

Why don't we just Kick these EV machines to the CURB and do it the OLD Fashioned way? I can WAIT for the results as long as they are CORRECT.

And while we've always had voter fraud in that places like Alabama just toss ballot boxes in the swamp or the local PIG drives them around for months in the trunk of his squad car, if we make it a FELONY to even THINK about fucking with a SINGLE vote ON PAPER, that SOMEONE will do a PERP WALK like they'll never forget if they mess with our vote, then I think we can simplify ALL OF THIS.

THE LIES are NOT Convenient. Getting stuck with Idiotic Serial Killers is NOT Convenient.

I want my country back. I was started with a Piece of Paper and a PEN and I want it to START ALL OVER with the same. A SIMPLE PIECE OF PAPER, HAND COUNTED.

Thoughts?

[bryant69]

1. Our whole economic system is run on computers

If we can run our economy on computers we should be able to run our elections on them - the problems isn't that it is impossible, but that we lack the will toa make it happen.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[symbolman]

2. We've got Millions of older folks

who can't set the clock on a VCR, how do you think THEY view an incomprehensible touch screen, with some Repig kid telling them how to use it?

Not to mention the poor, many of whom can't run one either, it's an alien spaceship to them.

So many sitting DUCKS, and the right wing KNOWS it.

[bryant69]

3. Anybody who can't figure out a touch screen voting system

probably can't figure out an optical scan ballot or a paper ballot either.

Bryant

[symbolman]

4. You're telling me

that someone who hasn't any experience with a computer can't USE A PENCIL?

Sorry I don't buy that one, and I've been in computers for years, and KNOW how confusing it can get...

[opihimoimoi]

6. How the Hell can those subverting the election process sleep at night??

Unless there is a bonus of some kind in their bank???

The Dems should pass laws to return to a secure and sane system...pronto, asap, quickly, soon...

[bryant69]

7. But presumably, if you are in computers, you know how simple

it can be made. We aren't asking people to launch the space shuttle or program their vcrs here; push the on-screen button that has the name of the guy you want on it.

Bryant

[symbolman]

8. I spent a YEAR making a film about this subject

so you know I'm not talking out of my ass, some of these ARE ALREADY difficult to use.

Just exactly what do you find offensive about a simple voting procedure that is used worldwide that is FAR LESS possible to CORRUPT?

A Pencil, a Piece of paper, and a 20 year MINIMUM Prison sentence for ANYONE caught disenfranchising ANYONE or miscounting votes.

WHY is it being made SO difficult? A Pencil does NOT suffer from Power outages, paper doesn't have a program on it that RUNS a POS/NEG program to get the results the RIGHT WING OWNER wants.

No one is talking about being a Luddite here, just making it so fucking SIMPLE that corruption is EASILY SPOTTED.

And Opi, I'm wit you Bradda, we go da Kine VOTE!

[bryant69]

9. Could they be made simple to use? Yes

Could they provide a paper trail? Yes.

Your protestations aside, you do seem to be a luddite - you seem to believe that we are incapable of building machines that could be more efficient than a pencil and paper. And I believe we do have the capability. I don't think we have the political will but that's another story - because obviously if you are going to organize political will to toss out thousands of voting machines and replace them with optical scan ballots (presumably that's what your reference to pencils is all about), than you could organize political will to fix the machines and require them to provide a voting trail.

I don't find a pencil and paper offensive, I find the idea that we are incapable of doing better offensive.

Bryant

[symbolman]

10. I'm not talking about Optical SCANS

they are CORRUPT as HELL, they are the WORST when it comes to stealing votes.. do you know anything ABOUT corruption in the EV scene?

Luddite, my wife has been in the biz so long that her AOL address is [e-mail], not [e-mail]

Why is a COMPUTER BETTER?

A Computer can calculate trillions of times better than humans, but when it fucks up it does it TRILLIONS of time WORSE.

I'm talking about, as I said before, A HAND COUNT.

Reduce the element of corruption, as simple as that. This is not about walking on the moon. (which that was done with SLIDERULES in the early days)

NO Computers, understand? Kick them to the Curb. It's the Only way to keep a RIght wing COMPANY, and in case you didn't know 80% and MORE of the machines are created and sold by RIGHT WING COMPANIES, OUT OF THE LOOP.

[bryant69]

12. Your use of all capitals aside I am unconvinced

Elections were stolen just fine before we had machines.

Bryant

[symbolman]

13. All Capitols?

Gee, how fucking ANNOYING that someone uses capitols on certain words for EFFECT.

Maybe I'm a poet. Maybe I have a vision problem.. Maybe I'm Michael J. FOX.

So you can't win a simple arguemnt, and instead attack a person's writing style, classy.

Go fucking away, I'd like to banter with people that don't post not only Rush Limbaugh on their site, but HIS BROTHER.

[bryant69]

14. That's classy too

Of course it does leave the wrong impression, doesn't it? You could be a bit more honest in your review of my website, such as it is.

I won the argument - because you can't actually prove a negative - and didn't even really try. You can't prove that it's impossible to craft a touchscreen voting system that is both easy to use and has safeguards in place to prevent election fraud.

Of course we might lack the political will to craft such a device, which i'll grant you - but if we lack the political will to do that, we probably also lack the political will to piss away the millions of dollars spent on optical scan ballots, touch screens and so on.

Bryant

[Nikki Stone1]

5. Legal rights trump convenience

:kick: and R

[stepnw1f]

11. Exactly.... Why Implement a Flawed System

where there are endless ways to rig or hack electronic voting? Stupid and expensive!

[Pathwalker]

15. Could you please elaborate about optical scanners?

Upthread, you said they are corrupt - could you explain to me why and how that is so? I was a little more confident about using a paer ballot, but I've always worried about those scanners, and I saw it count my ballot as two this morning... so now I'm even more concerned. I just don't understand how they are so corrupt. (Figures, though.)
I like the idea of paper ballots best, too.

[SoCalDem]

16. Scanning a piece of paper is one thing, and they probably do that just fine

It's the COUNTING going on inside the machine that's the "problem"..

[Pathwalker]

17. A man on C-span said they have a 10% error rate.

Asked to explain, he said that they gave the win to the wrong candidate ten percent of the time. This was a Democratic hearing, BTW. Rather disgusting rate of error, don't you think?
Thanks for your reply.

[SoCalDem]

18. 10% in a particular race that's close translates into a 100% error

:grr:

[RobertSeattle]

19. F'ing with an election should be the same penalty as TREASON

Same effects - same penalties.
Nuff said.

[Heywood J]

20. Especially when

you go to apply for a job after/if you get out, and have to explain that your conviction is for treason...