is a facist still a facist even if they get a terminal disease?

[Gato Moteado]

or do we automatically have to consider a sick facist as an american hero?

if cheney kicked off tomorrow from a heart attack, would you be sad or would you feel like there is one less facist in the world? if you were sad about it, would you feel more sympathy for cheney than you do for all the victims in his war to profit his old company halliburton? would you feel equally sympathetic? would you feel more sad for the cheney family loss than you would for all the people who die and suffer every day as a result of other republican policies like banned stemcell research and pollution into the environment by their corporate cronies?

what if the facist in question was a senator that voted to support the iraq war and ban embryonic stemcell research? would he suddenly be your friend and an american patriot just by virtue of getting sick or dying? would you feel guilty if the governor of his state was a democrat that appointed a democratic replacement? do you think out of respect, he should instead be replaced by another facist leaning repub?

the stakes are high, the lead in the senate is wafer thin and we have a pro-war dem (lieberman) to deal with. the highest priority seems to me to stop the senseless violence and death in iraq. would you welcome an open seat in the senate due to the sickness of a facist voting repub senator and see it as a blessing to possibly ending the war he helped create? or would you view it as more of a tragedy and feel it unfair to replace his seat with a dem even if it meant dragging on the war and creating untold thousands of more dead and maimed civilians and soldiers?

now i'm not asking if you should wish harm on anyone, including facists. i'm just asking what your priorities are...the war, the environment, stemcell research, the economy and the health and well being of 300 american citizens or the health and well being of one repub that supports the wrong side of every one of those issues.

this is a serious question and i'm interested in your views. it's an interesting scenario and one that could possibly materialize as i'm sure you've all seen in the other thread in this forum.

[porphyrian]

1. I think confronting your own mortality in a real way can change your mind.

And, sure, I think a fascist can become a decent person, given the right situation. However, this doesn't entitle them to anyone's trust, they have to earn it, and it doesn't negate what they did before it happened.

[Gato Moteado]

sure, people can change their ways, that's true....

but my question was really along the lines of: should we automatically consider an evil person as a good person just because they are dying? in other words, should our sympathy cause us to pretend they are a great human being simply because we might feel guilty by still viewing them as the bad person they are?

[porphyrian]

12. Oh, in that case, absolutely not.

Just because you're dying you don't automatically become a better person. I still cuss out that piece of shit reagan on occasion because he lost his mind and died before he could be held accountable for his crimes, especially around the time everyone was deifying him around the time he died. That fucker created record homelessness and ignored AIDS until it was an epidemic. I don't feel an ounce of guilt for pointing it out, now or when he was still alive. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

[Gato Moteado]

14. you're not a bad person.....

you're a patriot!

[porphyrian]

15. Heh, thanks. I guess time will tell... - n/t

[Justitia]

2. I believe in working for the Greatest Good, so you can guess my answer. -eom

[Gato Moteado]

5. i'm with ya.....

....i don't think facists fit well into the equation.

[lvx35]

3. What's important is the will of the people be respected.

Its not okay to have an elected official drop dead of anything and get replaced with the opposition party's guy,just because he died. His replacement has to mirror the will of the people on the matter.

[Gato Moteado]

4. if that guy is gone, how can we guess what the will of the...

..people would be in that situation? if the people elected a democrat to the governor office and the governor's job is to replace dead or retired senators in his state then it seems to me that the people have delegated and trusted that decision to him or her.

[lvx35]

22. That may be, its just that care needs to be taken.

Death should not be a deciding factor in politics, the will of the people should be. I think the reasons for this are pretty strait forward...

[petronius]

6. I think you've neglected a huge middle ground in the way you phrased the question

First of all, I wouldn't wish death or harm on anyone - if people are damaging America then I want them stopped, but removal from office (and perhaps the occasional incarceration) would be satisfactory.

Once someone dies, no matter how much I disagree with or despise them, they are no longer in a position to do any harm. In that case, I prefer to be considerate of the people left behind, and show some generosity to the departed (after all, the dead, no matter where they are, are beyond the reach of my criticism). It's not a matter of making them an "American hero" or my "best friend," it's a matter of finding good things to say about the dead, or saying nothing at all. Once the mourning period is over then I'll talk about the dead honestly, but I see no reason to be vindictive.

All in all, once someone is dead, I think that what we say about them and how we act says a lot more about us than it does about them...

[Gato Moteado]

8. i don't disagree with anything you said

nt

[undeterred]

7. fascist, not facist

unless its someone who doesn't like faces :shrug:

[Gato Moteado]

10. ooops....sorry

i hate spelling and grammar errors, especially when i make them.

[ShaneGR]

9. I don't believe in attacking people who are about to die...

But that's just me.

[Gato Moteado]

13. i don't believe i condoned that either

nt

[Jack Rabbit]

11. Is a terminally ill patient still terminally ill even if he's a fascist?

We can turn it around that way, too.

Actually, I don't know the specifics of Senator Thomas' voting record to call him a fascist, but since he is a Republican, let's assume there is quite a bit in it to which I would take exception. Under these circumstances, that doesn't matter.

We are wishing him well out of respect for a human being. Sometimes, that's all you have to be to qualify for some respect. This is one of them.

No one is suggesting that the Democratic governor of Wyoming appoint a Republican to fill his vacant term out of respect for a Republican should Senator Thomas be unable to continue his duties as Senator.

Wishing the Senator well has nothing to do with his voting record in the Senate; it is just about who we are as human beings.

[Gato Moteado]

16. i wasn't knocking the wishing him well....

...though i did sense much of it was insincere. had we not won the senate and an open seat in WY would give us the senate, i wonder how many people would be saying that he should be replaced by a repub.

i don't think it's productive to malign a dying person, even if he is a fascist. but i can't see grieving over it. should i shed a tear for hitler or mussolini? their demise didn't undo the things they did. and thomas' unfortunate predicament (which i would never wish on anyone) certainly doesn't undo the damage that he helped create. i certainly can't see not using this opportunity to strengthen the senate for the good guys. you know, the ones that want to stop the senseless killing in iraq and restore common sense to all the debates here in the US. why would someone feel ashamed or guilty of trying to do that????

[Odin2005]

17. A human being you disagree with is still a human being.

[Gato Moteado]

18. true

but do you have to pretend he's no longer a fascist when he's dying? was hitler a great guy when he was in his last throes?

[lib2DaBone]

19. Who do you believe

Is there anyone out there that attended Ken Lay's Funeral? (Please come forward) The courts went out of their way (post mortem) to give him a full pardon. You don't think...do ya? Nawww.. couldnt happen....not in the U.S.? Sorry to bring it up.

[Gato Moteado]

20. he faked his death

and he's human garbage no matter which way you slice it.

[mitchum]

21. No, death is banal, not ennobling...it's hard to find anything more commonplace

And the only good fascist is a dead fascist