Now, about that war...

[Philosoraptor]

Apparently we Democrats have no plan for victory in Iraq, so they keep harping, yet, they don't have one either, despite their many lies and excuses. They don't want to leave because they aren't done raping that nation yet, that is victory, when the oil is gone and there's no more war profits to be made.

The neo cons will never give it up, never declare so called defeat or so called surrender, all of these words are fantasy words. Victory, defeat, surrender, cut and run, stay the course, all fantasy words.

We will be constantly asked what our plan for victory is, and this is pure fantasy, there will be no such thing as an American victory, until we pull out of there and simply call it one to appease the warpigs.

I say we buy out the neo con war profiteering pigs, buy them out now and end it, ask them how much they'd settle for to just pack it up and go the fuck away and leave us all the fuck alone. How much dick? How much, name a figure, we'll come up with it if it's only about money. We'd rather you had all the money you desire than see one more of our sons and daughters die you pig fuckers.

[Kiouni]

1. the scary part

is that some people would contest your point and state that we needed the republicans to do our dirty work and secure foreign oil. Before the invasion Iraq was planning to sign mining rights away to a foreign country (I believe france?) and now we have control. Was it worth it absolutely not and I strongly agree with the above thought process but it is a hard contention to refute to some people that truly don't get or as you call them "pig fuckers"

[ixion]

2. The Plan is simple:

Pull out of Iraq, pay reparations to the Iraqis for all the harm we've caused them, apologize to the world for acting like a drunken thug for the last six years, and stop threatening to invade other sovereign nations.

It's a simple plan, but it just might work. ;-)

[neoblues]

3. Yes, but in the Bizarro world the Republicans have created...

they don't need to have any ideas, any plans, or even to either accomplish anything or avoid failure on most issues. The only exception being having failed to "win" in IRAQ in such a profoundly costly (in $money$ and dead patriot-soldiers) and embarrassing ways.

It's very disturbing to the Red State world view to see the the world's most powerful military (and it's ominous, world-crushing, infinite power and skill) shown to be virtually helpless... That we're unable to shape and manipulate the entire world to suit our personal tastes is bad enough, but to have to pay Billions of dollars every week and face a constant stream of dead and maimed troops, begins to eat on them. When the Republican government is further shown to be utterly incompetent--when in some particular area, it had been relatively competent before (under Democrats), it's like somebody put salt in their Wheaties. They start questioning whether this particular bowl of cereal(?) is for them. Still, though they're willing to try that strange new Democratic soy milk as an alternative, they're not yet really enthusiastic.

So if the NeoCon-tamination can maintain the existing Republican delusions--such as the notion Democrats have no ideas and Republicans do--after all, they "must have" since they are in fact in power, and they couldn't possibly be "in power" without having thousands of policies actually in place (somehow it escapes the Republican populace that in every case, some policy or other existed--when the Republicans got there; government actually existed and was running--and had policies--the majority of which were, in fact, created by Democrats; still, suddenly, as soon as Republicans took power, everything in existence--except the New Deal policies and abortion--became evidence Republicans had "ideas", and that claim was strengthened when Republcans began destroying and dismantling hundreds of those existing policies--how "creative"). It seems Republicans came in with "ideas" for ruling--all of which were basically "we're not them"/"we're not Democrats" and dismantling Democratic policies and institutions--that were doing good work, with measurable/verifiable results. So now, the idea of "restoring" good policies and institutions is the Democrats saying "we're not them/Republicans" and failing to have any ideas. Rove is indeed a master at manipulating the weaknesses in the ways so many Americans think.

It's a keen weakness in human nature or some characteristic of the modern mind that such puny concepts work so well. However, if we had an active, functioning and independent "Fourth Estate" to investigate the truth of every such claim--and it was actually willing to distribute their findings honestly--such manipulations of the way people think would never occur. It's the Media stupid. Without control of it, (a) such stupid suggestions would be exposed as being stupid, and (b) any such weaknesses in the public's typical way of thinking would never have been exploited in the first place. Bush would never have been able to get away with his lies to convince America to let him take us to war, and his lies would never have been distributed other than to point out how false they were. So it should be one of our "ideas" to ensure the Freedom and Fidelity/Honesty of our Public News/Information sources.