It is IMPERATIVE that we investigate and impeach Bush. (Please read and pass along)

[cool user name]

To show the world that we will not allow a lunatic to get away scot free with crimes against peace, against other nations, against liberties, against humanity.

IT IS IMPERATIVE.

I care not that it is politically expedient or suicidal. To redeem America's standing in the world, IT IS IMPERATIVE that we will take care of this nightmare that has been unleashed upon the world this past six years.

IT IS IMPERATIVE.

Forget about "control." It's about justice, not only for us Americans, but for the peoples of the world. That true Americans will not allow a murderous thug to continue serving as President for the rest of his term - that he will at least be investigated, impeached, and the removed from office.

It would be America's apology to the world.

IT IS IMPERATIVE.

[cool user name]

1. I want to add:

If we don't hold this administration accountable, then we are implicitly condoning their actions. Subsequently, we are no better than the criminals we let roam free.

A criminal occupies the Whitehouse. Criminals occupy the administration throughout the administration.

It is unconscionable that we don't impeach. Remember, impeachment is not removal. It is holding them to account, to explore their many transgressions against International Law, our Constitution, human rights, etc.

IT IS IMPERATIVE.

[undeterred]

2. I totally agree.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[porphyrian]

3. If we are a nation of laws, we cannot allow the highest ranking...

...officials of our nation to break them and disregard our Constitution. Impeachment isn't an option, it's imperative.

[jollyreaper2112]

5. Fix the problem, THEN address the cause

First off, we need to fix the damage caused by the Republicans. That has to be priority #1. We should be able to work in hearings around that schedule.

With the hearings, we must make sure that all of the wrongdoings are methodically rooted out and brought to the light of day. Calls for impeachment must come from the people, not just the Democratic leadership, especially since they have said it's off the table.

Moving directly into impeachment gives the Republicans the chance of saying that we're just playing politics. They're evil batards and I put nothing past them. They were able to turn a war hero's record into a liability, they can certainly turn an impeachment around to be a liability for the Dems if it is not conducted properly!

The Dems need to have a positive record to run on for 2008. If all they have to show for it is an impeached Bush, that's not going to count for much. We need to have positive changes made, such as a resolution to the Iraq mess. We need to reverse the anti-constitutional and anti-american laws and undo the damage wrought. I don't think there's enough time to get Bush impeached while still in office. But that's ok! We can nail him for criminal behavior even after he's out of office. The stench of the hearings will do us well in 2008 since people will be constantly reminded of the evil done by the Republicans.

I agree with the sentiment that the GOP helped us a lot in this election. I know from people I've talked to, they voted straight Dem tickets for the first time in their lives as a protest. These are people who are usually middle of the road and willing to listen to candidates from both sides. We cannot muddle along for the next two years and expect to retain any measure of control. Over the next 24 months, we must present stunning improvements as well as continued exposure of Republican dirt.

[cool user name]

9. We can't fix the problem if the cause is there to continue to break things!!!!

It's pretty simple.

Remove the cause. Treat the symptoms. Not the other way around. Sorry.

[porphyrian]

13. Hearings and investigations are all part of impeachment.

Fixing republican damage is what we'll be doing for the entire foreseeable future. Congress can do more than one thing at a time, you know? It sounds like someone's been trying to feed you koolaid about impeachment, and that you're really for it.

[cool user name]

40. Thank you!

Agreed.

IT'S IMPERATIVE.

[cool user name]

7. IT'S IMPERATIVE!

Thank you!!!

This is our responsibility to hold these criminals accountable so that this shit never, ever happens again.

I'm sick of it. Keep playing dead long enough, eventually, we won't be playing - it will be for real.

This is our Constitution we are talking about. If we can't be patriotic enough to defend what those before us did, then we deserve tyranny.

Fuck 2008. We are dealing in the here and now.

IT'S IMPERATIVE.

[porphyrian]

15. Impeachment is imperative.

Things will be so different by 2008, the cautionary posts about it now will look ridiculous in hindsight.

[earth mom]

4. Agree with you-it is imperative!

Impeach Bush: Do it Yourself:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2662784

[cool user name]

8. Thank you.

Let it be our mantra:

IT'S IMPERATIVE.

[In Truth We Trust]

6. Rule of Law! Impeach!

[warrens]

10. Sounds like the Saddam trial

If he broke the law, he should be impeached. In that order. Screaming impeachment without proof of violation of the law is exactly what the repukes did to Clinton. Look where it got them.

[cool user name]

11. OMG ... It's self-evident that we investigate before impeachment.

No one is saying not to investigate?

Why bring up that straw man?

Investigate, Impeach, Remove.

IT'S IMPERATIVE.

[dysfunctional press]

12. that's just ignorant.

in this country, we change leadership at the voting booth.
WE control both houses of congress- impeaching a two-year lame duck would be a complete waste of time, money, and "political capital".

let's concentrate on righting the wrongs, and giving the populace a reason to elect even more Democrats, including President in '08.

[porphyrian]

17. That's just silly.

Impeachment isn't a tool for changing leadership, it's a Constitutional imperative to prevent the Executive branch from breaking laws and overstepping its bounds. As a nation of laws, enforcing those laws is NEVER a waste, especially when the guilty parties are in the highest positions of government. This is concentrating on righting the wrongs, by definition. Think about it.

[dysfunctional press]

21. there are MUCH MUCH more IMPORTANT issues...

trying to ram an impeachment through would only serve to further divide the country at this point.

the checks and balances have been restored, and * will be reigned in by the legislative branch.

[porphyrian]

22. You are blinded by your misconception of impeachment.

If you understood what I said, you would understand that there is nothing more important, and that doing so will in no way impede progress in any of the other issues you've listed.

[dysfunctional press]

24. impeachments tie up the entire congress, possibly for quite a while.

btw- what are the SPECIFIC CHARGES that would be used to justify such an impeachment?

[porphyrian]

31. You don't want to wait until the investigation have even begun?

No wonder you can't understand it, you've got the procedure all backwards. First, investigations take place. Then, based on the evidence compiled in those investigations, impeachment comes into play. And horseshit about tying up Congress. What evidence of that are you using? The Clinton thing? Do you really think things are the same now as they were then?

[Pacifist Patriot]

32. That's not an entirely realistic view of impeachment.

It does not grind the business of government to a complete halt.

If you are interested in potential specific charges, I refer you to Articles of Impeachment Against George W. Bush by the Center for Constitutional Rights. ISBN 1-933633-08-5

Three Proposed Articles of Impeachment
http://www.impeachbush.tv/impeach/articles.html

Francis A. Boyle, Professor of Law, University of Illinois proposed Six Articles of Impeachment
http://www.counterpunch.org/boyle01172003.html

5/9/06 - Hanover NH voted 111 to 42 in favor of impeachment in a city-wide ballot.

"ARTICLE THIRTY-SEVEN: (Article by Petition) To see if the Town will vote to
support the impeachment of President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B.
Cheney due to their arbitrary exercise of executive power by instituting a system of
warrant-less wiretapping of American citizens in defiance of the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Act."

This is hardly the case of Democrats seeking an impeachment simply because they detest Bush/Cheney or want to give them a taste of their own medicine. Quite a number of people have been doing due diligence for years now.

[Pacifist Patriot]

25. I don't advocate "ramming" anything, but I do wish to adhere to...

constitutional law. There is enough preliminary indications that an investigation is warranted with quite enough hints that articles of impeachment would result from an investigation.

This isn't about reigning in a lousy president. It's about holding an elected official accountable for his actions in accordance with the law. I'm astounded anyone can fail to see that as an important issue.

You do realize that government does not come to a screeching halt during investigations and impeachment? You might be surprised by the number of people who are capable of multi-tasking.

[dysfunctional press]

30. an impeachment would just come off as looking like "sour grapes"...

and i doubt the dumbshit would actually be convicted of ANYTHING- kkkarl and unca dick did a pretty good job of sheilding the boy king from amy actual accountability.

i say that it's time to move on, do the people's work, and give the populace a reason to vote for even more Dems in '08.

[porphyrian]

34. You're afraid of appearances at this point?!

You would rather let a mass-murderer go free than appear to be vindictive?! What the fuck?

We CANNOT ignore criminal wrongdoings by the highest ranking officials of our government. As I said before, you're being silly.

[Pacifist Patriot]

37. I'm curious if the same individual would...

not pursue criminal investigations, and probably proceedings, against a garden-variety murderer simply because it would tie up the court which could be used to hear more important civil matters. This is just ridiculous. Political expediency is no reason to ignore the rule of law.

[porphyrian]

39. ...especially as we are a nation of laws.

I suppose the paradox of allowing the highest ranking officials of our nation to disregard our laws and Constitution are lost on some.

[Pacifist Patriot]

43. *shudder*

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. First of all, you're using the term "sour grapes" incorrectly.

But I think I get what you're trying to say. I just disagree that this is how investigations would be viewed. I think popular opinion ultimately supports the quest for truth. Polls already show a majority of Americans in favor of impeachment if Bush lied to invade Iraq.

Personally, I think you give Karl and Dick far too much credit. They are neither as accomplished nor as intelligent as people seem to think. You can only shield a president from accountability up to a point.

You and I will have to agree to disagree. I think the pursuit of justice would be one, among many reasons, to vote for more Democrats in 2008.

[cool user name]

42. I'm astounded that people fail to see that as well.

Truly astounded.

[Pacifist Patriot]

23. The pursuit of justice is never a waste of time, money and political capital.

Investigations and impeachment WOULD be righting the wrongs. Or at least a portion of righting the wrongs. I do not see how we can regain international credibility without it.

To ignore criminal behavior to somehow perpetuate our own power makes us no better than they are. I would hope we have more dignity and integrity than that.

[dysfunctional press]

26. so- what are the SPECIFIC CHARGES for such an impeachment?

just wondering...

[Pacifist Patriot]

33. I answered you above. Here's the link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2674269&mesg_id=2675684

[cool user name]

41. Letting a criminal get off scot free so he and his cohorts can do it again is a waste of time?

I think not!

[pat_k]

14. Impeachment is "operation rescue" for our Constitution

They are torturing the Constitution in plain sight.

Removal from office is the only means by which we can rescue the Constitution.

Congressional hearings to determine the extent of the damage, and criminal prosecution and punishment must follow -- but defending the Constitution is first and foremost.

If the police followed Pelosi's example, they wouldn't get many drunk drivers off the road:

Shhhh. Don't turn on the siren. He might hear us! Oh, darn. He mowed down another pedestrian. Let's call off the pursuit and see if we can get a new light installed at that intersection.

[porphyrian]

18. In Pelosi's (and Conyer's, for that matter) defense...

...given just the reactions here to the word "impeachment," they are taking exactly the position they should on the issue. However, as the evidence of blatant and flagrant abuse of power and criminal activity emerge over the next year, they will have no choice but to impeach, allowing them to appear impartial to reactionaries. It's all political.

Impeachment is coming. Bet on it.

[pat_k]

58. Hope you're right that "Impeachment is coming. Bet on it."

. . .Right now they are falling victim to the Rovian-reality created by the Republican noise machine. Although I'm confident that we can wake them up to reality-based reality, I'm not sure they'll get there on their own, I will keep trying to recruit folks to go after them with a "big stick" (a big http://www.wordspy.com/words/cluestick.asp">cluestick that is).

BTW, their was no negative reaction from the public. Tragically that bit of establishment "conventional wisdom" was part of the fantasy world created by the likes of Rove and Paul Weyrich (the opposite of reality, as shown by the recent http://january6th.org/oct2006-newsweek-poll-impeach.html">Newsweek poll). I don't mean to single you out on this, but if we are to make ANY progress, we must STOP listening to Republican noise machine.

Perhaps it takes distance to see the truth. Out of Africa:

http://www.andnetwork.com/index?service=direct/1/FullStory/printableLink&sp=l56679">African News Dimension
Pelosi falls victim to Bush’s 'Domestic Abuse'
November 10, 2006
By Yeshua Yosef

In typical “domestic abuse” fashion, President of the United States, George W. Bush, has already instilled fear in Nancy Pelosi, and she has promised not to impeach Bush

What CIA facts he has on Pelosi will never be known, but this is the Ruling Right Mentality still running on Cheney’s wish. The people lost voice when Pelosi backed down.

Impeachment would mean very little considering the number of U.S. soldiers killed and injured, and the greater number of Iraqi people who have fallen victim to the Domestic Abuse, and International Abuse of women, and children by this Administration. Pelosi said the Democratic Party wasn’t about getting even, which suggests the Democratic Party may not be about justice for all the people of the world either, especially those of us who have lived under the tyranny of Chaineyism (sic). Let’s hope that journalism will break free of the “fear of the right” and speak out, about “Domestic Abuse” by the Bush Administration.

. . .although we do have a great review of how we're being spun from FAIR

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2956271&mesg_id=2956271

[porphyrian]

59. The negative reaction I was referring to was the one we have here.

The directions for impeachment are clear. As evidence emerges, and you know it will, I don't think anyone will be able to prevent it.

[pat_k]

66. The mythical backlash beast is just that: a myth . .

. . .Even in the face of the all out anti-impeachment campaign coming from the beltway establishment (both Republican AND Democratic) a majority of Americans want impeachment to be a priority in the Democratic Congress. (see http://january6th.org/oct2006-newsweek-poll-impeach.html">Newsweek Poll)

Getting this kind of public support against the anti-impeachment tide being generated by the Party "leaders" and pund-idiots is amazing.

Paul Weyrich and others like him mounted their standard "be afraid, be very afraid" campaign, but there is no evidence that there was anything to be afraid of. The mythical backlash beast is just that: a myth (at least no polling has found it it).

The people that would make up this supposed "backlash" believe the Democratic Congress WILL impeach (probably 25-30%). These people certainly aren't listening to Pelosi's denials. Nothing Pelosi could say will move them one way or the other -- they can be factored out.

A vast majority of the rest WANT them impeach (once those people are factored out, you are looking at about 75% of the rest). There are few "issues" the Democratic "leadership" is actually promoting that have the number of activists and the level of energy behind it.

They made a terrible mistake when they failed to tap into that energy by running on impeachment.

By failing to take up the fight until it was "safe" (i.e., have the majority) they also created a terrible trap for themselves. Had they shown principle, fortitude, and courage by taking up the fight for impeachment before the election, they would have challenged the "weak Dem' image. Now, when they finally wake up to the reality that duty demands they take up the fight, they will be perceived as unprincipled hypocrites. If they don't wake up and keep it "off the table" they betray their oath and confirm the weak Dem image by failing to stand up to Bush.

It's water under the bridge. Sadly, there is no escape from the trap -- be perceived as unprincipled hypocrites or unprincipled wimps -- so they will have to pay one price or the other.

[cool user name]

44. "Removal from office is the only means by which we can rescue the Constitution."

IT'S IMPERATIVE!

[clichemoth]

16. I'd K&R if I had enough posts.

That is the most important thing the 110th Congress needs to do.

This is the core of every other issue. Without reasonable equality for all and respect for human rights and international treaties (such as the World Court and Kyoto), everything else is just the cherry on top.

[pat_k]

19. You can. . .

. . ."buy" privileges with a donation. :-)

[cool user name]

45. One question regarding impeachment ...

If any of the high crimes and misdemeanor charges apply, doesn't that make such laws as the Military Commissions Act and Patriot Act null and void?

I wonder how that works.

[originalpckelly]

20. La la land is so nice, unfortunately we all live in reality...

and in reality if we impeach dumbshit, he'll stay in office, because he won't be convicted.

[porphyrian]

28. I didn't know clairvoyance was reality-based...

In reality, we can't say who will or will not be convicted before a trial with any certainty, and we don't use the Clinton impeachment as the empirical model of how all impeachments play out. Things are entirely different now. Careful with those stones.

[Pacifist Patriot]

38. You're accusing others of living in la la land and you're the one...

attempting to predict the future? Got it.

[cool user name]

46. In reality, if we don't impeach ...

... we are just as criminal as he is.

Count on that.

IT'S IMPERATIVE!

[mmonk]

27. I don't think the rightwing elements trying to gain control

of our party are going to allow it. They must want to hang on to some of this foreign policy or the privitization craze or maybe both and don't seem to want to co-operate in what should be automatic.

[porphyrian]

35. Luckily, they are a minority falling from power.

When enough evidence of criminal wrongdoing is brought to light, they will have no choice lest they seem complicit.

[tigereye]

29. he should be held accountable

I'm not sure that we won because the electorate wanted impeachment. If there are legitimate legal reasons, so be it. If not, I really don't think we should impeach just because that's what they did with Clinton. He wouldn't be removed, anyway.


sorry, that's what I think.

[cool user name]

47. We are not impeaching for revenge!!!

I wish people will forget about Clinton.

Fuck Clinton.

It's about justice. It's about holding these bastards accountable, about defending the Constitution, about redeeming ourselves in the eyes of the world.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH REVENGE OR CLINTON.

IT'S IMPERATIVE!

[tigereye]

60. but the offenses actually have to be impeachable

there is a standard after all.

And a lot of folks I know want them to eat crow the way that we had to.... just keep that in mind.

IT'S REASON! USE IT!

[Pacifist Patriot]

62. Wish somone had told the GOP that 8 years ago.

However, I concur. This has absolutely nothing to do with revenge.

Articles of Impeachment Against George W. Bush by the Center for Constitution Rights ISBN 1-933633-08-5

Check it out!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

48. Investigate YES, Impeach no, not unless a rotting corpse falls out in a hearing.

[cool user name]

49. How about 60,000+ rotting corpses?

Will that suffice?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

50. They were in evidence when half the country voted for Bush in 2004.

... and they didn't convince the Republican Senators then, and they aren't convincing the Republican Senators now.

[cool user name]

51. We weren't in control then.

We control the agenda.

We can investigate, subpoena, impeach, and remove.

IT'S IMPERATIVE!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

53. Impeachment (indictment) is a waste of time & capital without conviction in Senate.

[cool user name]

54. No, it is not a "waste of time" to hold criminals accountable.

Not at all, no matter how much you say so.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

57. It is a complete waste if it cost you power in 2008 and the power to get lots more criminals.

Bush is indicted in public opinion. Get the evidence and build the case like a prosecutor. Think like a prosecutor. Prosecutors only bring cases they think they can win. As things stand, you can't win (get a conviction in the Senate).

Investigate and expose. Then maybe impeach if you can convince 16 Republican Senators.

Just because you and I know he is a criminal, doesn't mean it is worth wasting the power of two years of investigation and legislating and the potential of many more years after 2008 to bring failed proceedings against one shrub bush. If foolish proceedings against Bush eat up the political capital, you'll lose the Senate in 2008 and you'll lose the judges that a Democratic Senate can approve and deny. That will really affect a lot of criminals the Republicans would rather let go and get fat.

[porphyrian]

65. Provide evidence that impeachment will cost us the 2008 election.

I'm sick of hearing this bullshit.

[Poiuyt]

52. It is imperative!

[cool user name]

55. IT'S IMPERATIVE!!!

[cool user name]

56. Only 14 votes?

:shrug:

IT'S IMPERATIVE!

[Grebrook]

61. No, we won the election, it's over, we humiliated Bush, let's investigate and embarass and cost the

GOP 2008.

Impeachment will cost US the presidency. If you guys want another four years of GOP white house control, you're insane.

[porphyrian]

64. You are making too many leaps in logic.

Impeachment will not cost us the Presidency. The process of impeachment will likely gather unanimous support for it. Insanity is not calling for impeachment, it is in deluding yourself into thinking impeachment is an option.

[librechik]

63. if we don't punish Bush for his crimes, we will forever be ACCESSORIES

before and after the fact.

The only way to separate OUR reputation from the Shrub's is to PUBLICLY PROSECUTE AND PUNISH HIM.

If we don't we will always be the fascists who allowed the BIG FASCIST to get away with murder. Literally.

I don't care if we have to do it politely and gradually. We just have to do it.

[Marr]

67. I don't think there's as much disagreement here as people seem to think.

If I were a Democratic politician and someone asked me right now, "do you think the Democrats should impeach Bush?" I'd say "no".

Not because I don't want the man impeached- I do. I think it's important that he be impeached, simply as an affirmation that law means something in this country. But demanding impeachment rather than investigations counters the whole thing. We want to say "this is a nation of laws", and the way you do that is by having deliberate investigations and only *then* mentioning punishment.

I know it seems like obfuscation, but I truly don't think it is. We need to be proceed deliberately and methodically. Investigate. Bring out all their dirty laundry and let everyone see, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that this administration *deserves* to be turned out.

Do it that way, and you may actually *generate* political capital by impeaching the president, rather than spending it.

[Mme. Defarge]

68. If we don't impeach

under these circumstances, could someone please explain to me under what exact circumstances we would impeach?:think: