Will Pitt has some very good words posted over at BuzzFlash

[donsu]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/110906Z.shtml

thank you Will

[wyldwolf]

1. It is a good article. I used to have a lot more respect for him than I do now, though...

His post here yesterday descended in Sirota-political tabloid territory.

Still, good article in your link.

[WilliamPitt]

8. I'll have to survive your displeasure.

:)

Actually, I think I could have stated that whole thing a lot better. My point was simply that the base deserves a seat at the table and a large voice in the process, and PDA can help accomplish that. I have to confess that I'm not a huge fan of Rahm, despite Tuesday, and that WaPo statement really chapped my ass.

But anyway, I'll recover from your annoyance...somehow. :P

[wyldwolf]

9. Will, three years ago you wrote a well reasoned piece on exactly what...

...the base is and is not.

Now you seem to be buying into the nonsense that the base is some small ideologically "pure" segment of the Dem populace. With so many shades of ideology traditionally present in the party, you can only fall back on the old "base" definition: The single most reliable voting block.

The "liberal" wing has certainly shown themselves not to be that.

[WilliamPitt]

10. How exactly do you come to that conclusion?

Seriously. I guess this is proof that I blew it in that post, because I absolutely don't think that way.

Can you show me where in that post I indicate such thinking?

[wyldwolf]

11. sure.

After your initial explanation of what PDA is, your next statement is: This is about making sure the base is heard. Period. Wouldn't you agree that the logical conclusion to draw would be that you think the PDA and like-minded persons are "the base?"

To further cement that impression, you quote the media piece that uses the term "liberal wing" of the party.

Join PDA. To make sure the BASE is heard. To make Emanuel nervous for (allegedly) saying something about the LIBERAL WING.

PDA=BASE=LIBERAL WING.

[WilliamPitt]

13. I must be dense today

because I'm still not seeing your issue.

PDA is an amalgamation of left-leaning Dems, Greens, Independents and progressives. That pretty much amounts to the portion of the base that isn't union members and minorities. To a person, they are against the war, and busted their asses to see this election turn out as it did. PDA has great contacts with the CPC and the CBC, and can serve as a great way for our message to get into congress.

I'm not sure what the problem there is, and actually, can't stick around for the answer. I'm off to NH to see my mom. I'll look for a reply later.

[wyldwolf]

14. no, you're not dense. But answer this.

Did you or did you not make a case that PDA is representative of the base/liberal wing of the party?

If you didn't, why didn't you ask people to join the NAACP or the ACLU or NARAL to make Emanuel nervous? Surely they are made up of left-leaning Dems, Greens, Independents and progressives.

[WilliamPitt]

15. Hah! I caught this before departing

Easy answer: I don't work for those organizations. I work for PDA. If that is a problem, then I don't know what to tell you.

[wyldwolf]

16. ok, I get it.

You work for PDA. So, that somehow makes them more indicative of the "base" (minus minorities, of course.)

What it ultimately sounds like to me is you've implied that PDA = the liberal wing = "the base" = "an amalgamation of left-leaning Dems, Greens, Independents and progressives that aren't union members and minorities."

[WilliamPitt]

19. And?

(in NH now)

[wyldwolf]

22. and...

The base must be "an amalgamation of left-leaning Dems, Greens, Independents and progressives that aren't union members and minorities."

BASE= liberal wing = PDA = "an amalgamation of left-leaning Dems, Greens, Independents and progressives that aren't union members and minorities."

[WilliamPitt]

23. Maybe in another 20 posts you'll make your point

Until then, I'm going to eat roast beef and play with a puppy.

Or do I have that backwards...?

[wyldwolf]

24. maybe in another 20 you'll undertand it

I'll be blunt. You've stated through strong implication that the base IS the liberal wing of the party as represented by PDA.

Even if it isn't what you meant, it is implied by your words, and only feeds the people who actually believe it to be true.

[truebrit71]

2. Should I be "nervous"....?

... :eyes:

[Webster Green]

3. That is a must read!.......Excellent! (n/t)

[ixion]

4. kicked and recommended... now is when the work begins

very true.

[Buzz Clik]

5. Nice quote:

"For the first time in far too long, however, an opportunity has arrived to do more than scream into the thunderstorm and damn the rain."

An opportunity and a responsibility.

[Make7]

6. Posted over at DU too.

A Deep, Deep Breath

[applegrove]

7. Beautiful.

[OzarkDem]

12. Great article, Will!

You summed it up nicely! These are the basic, fundamental truths about the state of our government that often get lost in the daily political grind and obscured by special interests and issues. We have to focus on preserving the process of democracy and democratic government.

[proud patriot]

17. Rolling up my sleeves

:patriot:

[patcox2]

18. "unutterably massive?"

Way to sling words. Believing that you live in special times, that the present is somehow an epochal moment, is almost always a sign of naivete or lack of deep historical understanding. Pitt writes penny dreadfuls, not serious political analysis. In this piece he vastly over-emotes and exagerates what is in fact just a change in the direction of a large and slow pendulum. This emotional, temporo-centric view muddies, rather than clarifies, a real understanding of the state of the US, of history, and of the Constitutiuon itself.

The backs of the neo-cons are not broken. In fact, we probably will have a harder time electing a democratic president in 08 than if we had lost this election (I am still overjoyed that we will be able to minimize the damage Bush can do, though).

The neocons are just the flavor of the month, the current name for an old phenomenon. There was never a time when this country was "united" by the constitution; the constitution itself contains signs of the deep divide already present when it was written (like the 3/5ths clause) and which later erupted into the civil war. The Scopes trial and stem cell research, and in our children's time there will be some new fight over the same old thing.

No reason to despair, but also no reason to start believing in Pitt's form of eschatological triumphalism.

[theboss]

20. Truthout? Are they still around?

Though in retrospect, considering that the Republicans did not actually have a strategy this year, it is entirely possible that Karl Rove was secretly serving a jail sentence.

[mmonk]

21. Good piece

"The real work begins now."
yes, indeed.