A thought about liberal vs moderate vs conservative politics and geography

[Perky]

In responding to anothee post something occurred to me that I would like to get some feedback on.

The majority of Americans are progressives but it occurs to me that 80% of the progressives are concentrated in only about 1/3rd of the congressional districts. These districts are largly urban, occassioanlly suburban and rarely rural.

Because progressives and liberals typically find themselves concentrating their numbers in urban districts their representation in congress is typiclly liberal. Yet as we move aways from urban areas the liberal position becomes less and less concentrated and the representation less progressive. That means that 2/3rds of Congress represent only about 20% of the liberal voters and 80% of the non liberal voters. So even though progressives do represent the majority, Congress does not reflect the same level of progressive alignment.

Progreessive represenatation lags substantially behind the progressive majority.

I don't know how you overcome that inequity. Any ideas?

[sabbat hunter]

1. no

congressional districts are determined by population. so the cities have more congressional districts than the rural areas.

the majority of america is moderate. willing to move forward but slowly.

[Perky]

3. Yes byut what I am saying is

that an urban district is ppoulated with 80% liberal voters, 15% moderate and 5% conservative.

A suburban district might only be 30% liberal and a rural district might only be 10% liberal.

liberals might make up the largerst voting bloc nationally but because they are more concerntater than moderates or conservatice they winf up being under reprepsents nationally.

[John Q. Citizen]

5. The call that gerrymandering.

[Perky]

9. yess see post #7

[Laelth]

6. Perhaps I can illustrate what the OP seems to suggest.

Say you have one inner city district with 100K people and one rural district with 100K people. I think the OP is suggesting that inner-city districts are more homogeneous, i.e. 95% progressive, 5% deluded. The rural district, on the other hand, might be 30% progressive and 70% deluded. That means, in sum there are 125K progressives in these 2 districts and only 75K deluded people. Yet, these districts will send one progressive and one deluded representative to Washington, and the deluded people, then, will be over-represented.

Does that make sense?

OP: I hope I understood and illustrated your argument appropriately.

-Laelth

[Perky]

8. SImple matha like that make sense.

If we dominated subrban ditricts the way we dominate the vot in urban districts congress would find itsel f mor aligned with the nation's political sentiments.


This is largely a Geryymandering issue, but ig you rjugger thing to lessen the concentration you wind up getting more distict on the muddled middle.

[Jamastiene]

22. I love it. Best.Analysis. Yet.

x% Liberal. x% Deluded. That really does about sum up the way it is. :hi:

[Laelth]

24. Thank you, thank you.

n/t

:patriot:

-Laelth

[BlooInBloo]

2. Where did you get the idea that the majority of Americans are progressive?

Just curious.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. Survey after survey shows Americans support progressive issues while

at the same time calling themselves moderates or conservatives. The right has made liberal or progressive a bad word, and most people don't want to call themselves a bad word.

Everyone wants their water to be clean and there air to be clean. Are those conservative issues, or moderate issues, or progressive issues?

The extremists have to name their bill that allows more pollution is the air the "Clear Skies Act," because if they called it the "More Air Pollution act," America's progressive instincts wouldn't stand for it.

The "Healthy Forests Act," brings back clear cutting, but if they called it "The No Tree Left Behind Act" nobody would want it.

So the right has to lie about what their programs and legislation does, because we are in the majority and they know it.

[Laelth]

12. Nicely said, and too true.

PATRIOT act, indeed ... more like the "Gut the Bill of Rights Act." No American "patriot" would stand for that.

-Laelth

[John Q. Citizen]

19. Yep, so they have to lie about it. Here in Montana this year, Tester came

out squarely opposed to the "Patriot," better known as the "Gut the Bill Of Rights Act" and Burns tried to paint the grain farmer from Big Sandy as a 'terrorist loving' liberal. It didn't work out to well for burns.

[Laelth]

20. I noticed.

And I am very happy for both Montana and the nation that enough people are seeing through the BS that we might be able to reverse course and save the Constitution.

My thanks to the good people of Montana. :patriot:

-Laelth

[BlooInBloo]

15. Oh - ok. If you're gonna just say they're all liars, fine. I can't disprove that.

[John Q. Citizen]

17. If people are conservative, why do the conservative leaders need to lie?

People would embrace their conservative agenda.

But most people aren't conservative, which is why it's nessisary to lie about the agenda.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Also: You are aware of the fact that, within a given state, the population of all....

... Congressional districts is about the same, aren't you?

[Perky]

7. Yes but theliberals tend to be concentrated in urban districts

which tend to dilute their strengeths on the states othe dirticts.

Look at a state like Georgia where liberals dominate the two Atlanta Districts but there are are very few in the other nine districts of the state. so even thout gthey might represent a solid 40% of the state over all, 90% of the progressives live in two districts and only twnety percent in the other nine disticts. SO they get 22% of the delegation's votes in the house despite having 40% of the voters.

[BlooInBloo]

10. Sigh.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. Yes, but the demographics of each district aren't the same. You are aware

of court ordered apportionment of districts right? Under the civilrights and voting rights inforcement laws?

By "gerrymandering" districts, a clever legislator can dilute the voting strength of a given group, whether it be hipanics, or Democrats. This is exactly what the Repos have done in many places and what they did in Texas that caused all those Democratic legistators to hide out in New Mexico so there wasn't a quorum and the Repos couldn't recarve districts to increase Republican voting power. they ende up doing it anyway and the Republicans ended up creating 5 new Republican house seats in Texas.

[BlooInBloo]

16. Did I anywhere even so much as suggest disagreement with anything you said?

[John Q. Citizen]

18. S'aal right? saal right!

[porphyrian]

13. Most people don't actually fit well into any of those categories.

They are really arbitrary labels created not to accurately represent the beliefs of the populace, but to manipulate public perception by inventing teams. These teams are then given identities and associations, thus minimizing the importance of individual leaders - their strengths become qualities of the team and their weaknesses can hopefully be discarded with the individual leader.

In the real world, people believe different things at different times and in different situations. Someone may feel strongly against the death penalty in general, but want to kill the people responsible for the loss of their child. They may hate the idea of welfare but feel that energy companies should provide their services free to seniors. A person can be socially "liberal" and economically "conservative." Each of the categories you've listed may be a hole of a specific shape, but then we are pegs of infinite variety, and we can only fit those holes by ignoring our true shape.

[Jamastiene]

21. A bunch of liberals could move to Rockingham, NC.

That would be a nice start. Plenty of fresh air and sunshine... Lots of wide open space...Cheap to live here too. :D

[Jed Dilligan]

23. Land reform

Break up the illegal megafarms in the West and bring inner city families out to organically farm them with the recovered illegal subsidies.

[elocs]

25. The majority of Americans are progressives?

I am doubtful of that and would love to see a link. I would be very happy if it were true. My state of Wisconsin was once progressive and it certainly is not any longer.