Okay I'm ready to Impeach now, rather than have Bush Senior running the White House

[symbolman]

I was all for getting as much out of the Lame Duck before we NAILED him, but if HE is going to INSTALL his UNELECTED Father, who WE sent PACKING when we elected President Clinton, then I am ALL FOR IMPEACHMENT so the American People can INSTALL who WE WANT.

Him installing his father is THE reason to IMPEACH him now, the cherry on the Impeachment CAKE.

This is a SILENT COUP, by people we kicked out long ago, CRIMINALS Pardoned by THIS UNELECTED President, the OTHER Unelected pResident :)

W has just opened the Grain Stores for his dad's old pal, and this SHALL NOT STAND.


WHY is there NO Dialogue about all THIS? This is HUGE NEWS, and Awful.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[symbolman]

4. DO NOT call me a Republican

DON'T DO IT.

I've spent 6 years and HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS of our MORTGAGE fighting these bastards, I've won Hollywood awards, been on O'Reilly once and Scarborough TWICE, once for a MoveOn Commercial called ARMY OF ONE, that got national Broadcast during the Primaries.

I've been sued by Michael Savage for a HALF A MILLION BUCKS.

EVERYONE knows how MUCH I've done as an ACTIVIST so I REPEAT, DO NOT CALL ME A REPUBLICAN.

Other than that let's be pals...

[upi402]

6. Thanks for your work symbolman

:patriot:
You're very busy and we all benefit from it.

[symbolman]

9. Thank you

I'm not trying to be an egoist, or brag, I just don't like ANYONE doubting my fervor, I've given up SO MUCH fighting these guys for all these years, and all someone has to do is post, "Are you a Republican?" to put me over the edge :)

It's someone who is new and has not been around to see my 50 flash political attack ads at Takebackthemedia.com, or the Limbaugh Boycott, or the films I've created, even flying from Hawaii after begging for donations to film the Downing Street Minutes hearing in the basement of the Capitol, a nice 12 travel period..

NOW that film is GOLDEN tho, can't complain about that.. I should STREAM it on the site for those who haven't seen it, eh?

Thanks for your thanks.. activism for no pay is hard work :)

[upi402]

25. I appreciate knowing

Sometimes I let this or that out so the other will know the scoop. With knowledge comes more of this:pals:

I saw the Downing Street basement hearing (Conyers:patriot: McDermot)on C-SPAN a few times. Did you film with that crew?
I drumbeat for The Memo almost as much as against the corporate media traitors. Good for you -getting on that one! What a score! We needed that so much.

I've sounded the alarm against the media since the mid 80's myself, and been a fan of F.A.I.R's Extra! since the early 90's.

Yep, it pays to pause, when it comes to flaming a true patriot.

[symbolman]

35. I actually had to CHASE Congressman Conyers

down the halls of that Basement. They weren't going to let me in the same room as the hearing, though I'd flown THOUSANDS Of miles and it was supposed to be all set up. I went because I had heard that NO MEDIA were going to cover it, and I knew it was BIG.

By the time I was there I heard that maybe CSPAN 3 MIGHT cover it, and my purpose was to document it and make sure that people would watch the WHOLE THING and hear every word.

Once I caught up with Conyers at the elevator, fully expecting some security guy to break my wrist and stand on my head, (He DID look a little nervous), I told him that I represented the BLOGOSPHERE and that I wasn't there to use video bytes out of context to stab him in the back, that I wanted EVERYONE to see this on the web..

He looked at me and said, "No.." THEN I saw the twinkle in his eye and knew he was FUCKING WITH ME :)

He said, "You represent the Blogosphere so YOU need to be in that room." He instructed his aides to get me IN THERE.

They took me to the door with my HiDEF camera, and the lady that works with Conyers told the Pelosi aid who'd refused me access that "Mr Conyers says this man is to be IN that ROOM and allowed to film this. That not only is it a Good Idea, but it's the LAW."

It was all I could do to keep from cracking up at that line :)

So I fought my way through a crowded media room, smaller than the inside of a trailer, and so the first 20 minutes of the film are ME ELBOWING my way past CSPAN and others, but I got it all and shared it.

AFTER I hotfooted it to the Rally at the White House and have footage of Conyers and other bright stars in the Congress hand over more than 500,000 signatures asking Bush WHY he would not respond to the Downing Street Minutes. It was a GLORIOUS MOMENT, captured on film.

They kept that man standing at the gate like he was a Pizza Boy, and he did so with great dignity and reserve, and in the end they FOLDED and accepted the sigs, which were in huge blocks of paper, handed overhead again and again until they could carry no more.

FOr me that Hearing was the NIXXON Moment, a moment when they could NO LONGER HIDE from the TRUTH, and I'm hoping it will now bite them in the ass, I treasure that footage, and should stream it on the web, if I could afford it..

Thanks for fighting the good fight, people have no idea how hard it is with NO MONEY, thank god for the kind folks here who SENT me there with donations.. :)

[lonestarnot]

44. Excellent symbolman! Did not know you were one of the basement

meeting attendees! Bravo! :toast: :patriot:

[symbolman]

45. Did you go too?

I like to think of it like Dylan Basement Tapes :)

A cool scene that the Repigs had no idea was happening, thinking they'd relegate it to the Basement, only to have it come upstairs and BITE THEM IN THE ASS BIGTIME :)

Watching all these GREAT people tell it like it IS was a wonderful feeling, after so much LYING it was like the SUN SHINING :)


Maybe I should offer it to Conyer's office for him to REMIND people of what the DSM is/was ALL ABOUT - just get someone to pay for the repro costs and give them to his office basically FREE.. two DVDs worth of solid info..

[lonestarnot]

48. In spirit only!

I think it was one of my angriest moments. You certainly should share the two DVD's. Also lets them know we were paying attention! Another moment was the Senslessbrenner shutdown. Remember that?

[symbolman]

64. Yeah, that was like the Day before

or the one before that.. when he called the meeting OVER, left with the gavel, they turned OFF the mikes and the Lights..

Height of Arrogance, misuse of the RULES and HE was the one that gave Conyers the Basement.

On my way there No One even knew for sure where it was going to the HELD.

Amazing hubris by these wicked, stupid little men.

THAT is exactly why I want this to RISE from the basement and make them WISH they'd been NICER, though that is asking a LOT, more than they are capable of, and the American Public Now knows this, as per the VOTE this time..

I was so glad to see us WIN, but in the winning we have to watch for the Shell Game played by Bush Senior AND the Media... MSNBC is promoting Shameless Propganda, worthy of 1950's RUSSIA..

Sensenbrenner sounds like a buzzsaw when he talks, scary dude :)

[xiamiam]

54. thank you...it was a pivitol moment for me...i went from everyday anger to rage..

and even today, that footage is paramount in my mind when i think of the arrogant bullying and stonewalling of this administration.. when i think of our elected congress persons forced to the basement to hold a hearing on the lies which led us into iraq...thanks...it remains an important document for many reasons...the lies and fixing of policy as well as the arrogance of the congressional enablers...i shall never forget....thanks so much...

[symbolman]

65. But you know what?

There as so much CLASS in that room, what with Cindy Sheehan, Joseph Wilson, Conyers, other WONDERFUL Congress folks who came in and out all day between votes, but SHOWED UP knowing this was IMPORTANT, that it didn't really matter that it was in the basement.

Those with honor and intelligence can't really be SHAMED. The shame is on the person who tries to circumvent JUSTICE with Petty moves :)

Doesn't mean *I* wasn't outraged, I have no class and demand people like that be treated with CLASS, they deserve it..

You're welcome for anything I've done to help the cause.. I still have all that footage, should use it to make a film about the DOWNFALL of the BUSH Family :)

[xiamiam]

71. now is the time to do that...hearings starting up in january i imagine

much like 'hacking democracy', which seems to be playing at least three times or more weekly on cable these days.......its information which the average american hasn't a clue about...sorry to say...and as i said, viewing that footage was an important event in my political understanding..i think there are enough resources available at this time to actually do something enormously meaningful..thanks again...

[symbolman]

89. Just in case no one has told you

Bev Harris was Booted OFF the DU and many Well Respected sites, many think she scammed them out of a LOT of money and produced nothing, others think that the book she wrote was assembled right HERE by many highly intelligent and passionate people.

That she doesn't know computers from her own ass..

There are MANY links and she's a Pariah by I would say most of the DU..

You might want to search the archives and get a feeling for her. Just a friendly tip :)

[xiamiam]

92. well, i do know that..and i happen to be one of the people who sent her money

when she was in florida etc etc...and then the stuff happened here and i hadnt been here that long..so i felt like a fool...even though i had been encouraged by her presence here at du...so ive felt bad for a couple years that i had been scammed...wouldnt be the first time...but truthfully, my feelings at this point are not about personality...im happy that the documentary is reaching people who didnt know anything or ever believe that the elections could be hacked...i dont have an opinion about the personality...its just the info thats important...and even if its just a piece of the info...somehow thats how we all learn...

[DoYouEverWonder]

50. I hit the alert

that was nothing but flame bait.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. Please Take Care To Not Injure Your Shoulder While Patting Yourself On The Back.

As far as the impeachment argument goes, I think anyone advocating for it in such an instantaneous fashion prior to thorough investigations done in a responsible manner, while garnishing full public support to go to such an extreme, is naive in many ways to the reality of politics and are abandoning critical thought and reasoning skills for sake of emotional passion of hatred towards the president.

I think going on an all out course of impeachment right now would be completely reckless, irresponsible, futile, and a sure bet way to lose public confidence quickly in the democratic majority and ensure our future losses.

This administration has done a multitude of criminal acts upon which they can be impeached, but they still need to be investigated in a responsible manner and in a way that does not seem like a vendetta. Right now the American people want a Congress that will get real things done of benefit for the American people, and there are a ton of wrongs we need to right and beneficial legislation to pass prior to just recklessly going after impeachment. I love the plans I've heard from the Dems so far and if we can pull many of them off I'm confident the public will start to gain much trust for us. But recklessly going after impeachment right out of the gate is a surefire way to lose them quickly and ensure that our majority doesn't last for long. It also is futile, as prior to one hell of a public momentum movement towards impeachment, brought on by lengthy investigations that reveal enough cold hard facts to make it blatantly apparent, you ain't gettin no two thirds majority in the Senate. Furthermore, if we recklessly take a impeach him off the bat path I can guarandamntee ya that Mr.Lieberman will be so disgusted with the 'Partisan' politics that he'll quickly caucus with the Repubs which instantly makes us lose our majority.

So pat yourself on your back all you want for all the things you've done. I think anyone who has supported our causes should pat themselves on the back, whether they've been on tv or not. But no matter how much you've spent or how much of an activist you are, it only matters when it is advocating things beneficial and of sound mind and strategy for our party and the public. And what you outlined in this OP, as a "fuck it, let's just Impeach him right now!" strategy, is reckless, futile, naive, idealistic, non-strategical, and a certain way for us to lose the trust of the public and the majority in congress.

We have much responsibility now as the majority party. There are a million things we need to do beneficial for this country that should be done first prior to a reckless move towards impeachment. As much as I'd love to see shrubby held accountable for his many crimes, I also stand firm in the realm of reality, not a realm of foolish idealism.

So thank you for all the things you may have done in the past, but I can't agree with your sentiments here for our party or the public whatsoever. I'm firmly in the pass beneficial bills and policies for America camp, while providing real oversight and serious investigations into past wrongs. But a call for impeachment should only come farrrrrrrr later, after a whole lot of other stuff occurred first.

But have at it.

[AntiFascist]

21. I never understand this argument....

do you think Pelosi or Conyers is going to read one of our posts and suddenly decide "gee I think I'll act irresponsibly and call for impeachment". Of course they are going to act responsibly and of course they are going to conduct investigations, that goes without saying. What's not happening is the necessary education of the public!

[mmonk]

56. Investigations preceed articles of impeachment (part of the process).

There's no such thing as filing articles of impeachment prior to making your case.

[Exiled in America]

83. There's little glory in activism other than recognition.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting appreciation for the work you've done. Especially if you are working as an activist, where there is little to no satisfaction for such hard work in any other capacity.

[elocs]

68. It looks like you reported the poster. I reported one today.

I've had enough of this kind of crap here. I am a Democrat and have been since 1972. I have worked for Democrats, given money to Democrats and voted for Democrats. I am a Liberal with a capital "L". Somebody who cannot support their viewpoint without resorting to calling a fellow DUer a freeper, RWer, or a Republicans has just lost their argument. Thank you symbolman for standing up for your beliefs and not being intimidated by DU bullies.

[symbolman]

70. Actually I didn't

I just let them know that I wasn't a damn Republican and WHY :)

After that I said, other than that Let's be Friends ...

But there are SOME that I do feel leary of, and we've coined a new term just for fun "PT" (Professional Troll) -- I thought it should go a step further and call it "PT CRUISER" (a Professional Troll that goes from Thread to thread disrupting, a very busy person, hit and running everywhere), and that they were like the Cars in that they Resembled an Old Classic, but WEREN'T, just a SHELL, that the Engine didn't have the HorsePower that the good old American Cars did, and that they cruise around Pooping out POLLUTION everywhere..

Mind you this is just for fun, we don't want to CALL any one out against the rules.

but Self Defense is allowed I think, eh? :)

And thank our ever vigilant Mods for the great job they do, think about how many of them there would be if THEY weren't HITTING these freeper types like a ton of bricks!

[elocs]

73. Somebody caught it, maybe it was the mods. Good job, whoever. n/t

[txindy]

5. A whole lot of people here want impeachment now.

Never mind investigating, presenting evidence, and gathering the votes necessary. Apparently we should skip all the 'unimportant' stuff like that and go right to the declaration that Junior's being impeached. :eyes:

Does anyone demanding immediate impeachment even recall the not-insignificant fact that we are still the minority until the new Congress is seated in January? Probably not.

[barb162]

8. I think a lot of people also forget Pelosi said no impeachment

Yeah and let's just skip that little ol' investigation part because we are so consumed by hate we don't want to deal with that. Also in January there still won't be anywhere near enough votes for impeachment. .

[puebloknot]

29. I strongly support impeachment.

I am *not* motivated by hatred but by a determination to see justice done.

By *enough votes* I assume you are referring to the number of votes required for *conviction* in the Senate, if the House of Representatives hands down Articles of Impeachment. Bill Clinton was *impeached*, but he was not convicted.

Impeachment is a constitutional process (I know, I'm smoking dope because the Constitution has now been declared "just a god damned piece of paper" by George Bush). Nobody with two neurons firing (and that would be me and thousand of other loyal Democrats and maybe some reasonable Republicans, too) is suggesting rushing to impeachment without "that little ol' investigation part." That's ludicrous. You can't impeach on *nothing*. There is plenty already on the record to fuel impeachment proceedings -- once the new Congress is seated in January.

What most of us are talking about now is making it clear that we expect the new Congress to do its constitutional duty. If enough evidence is documented (piece of cake, and John Conyers has already done that), it follows, constitutionally, that our representatives must impeach (impeachment isn't conviction), or violate their oaths of office.

Pelosi is not a ruler by divine right. She has put her foot in her mouth with her "off the table" comment, and it is causing a lot of division in the party. If she didn't really mean it, she shouldn't have said it. If she did mean it, she is assuming for herself powers that she does not have without the consent of the governed.

The other side of hate is mature holding to account of leaders who have trampled on our laws, taken us into an illegal war...this list goes on and on.


Judy Barrett, Citizen
United States of America

[barb162]

99. see responses

I am *not* motivated by hatred but by a determination to see justice done.

#Good re the hate part; Justice? He'l be reviled till he dies. He already is reviled. Think about it; the stupe thought he was doing the right thing for his beyond crazy agenda. But the people voted for him twice and his henchman and the Republican Congress several times

By *enough votes* I assume you are referring to the number of votes required for *conviction* in the Senate

#yes

Impeachment is a constitutional process (I know, I'm smoking dope because the Constitution has now been declared "just a god damned piece of paper" by George Bush).

# the Constitution is a bit battered but still alive and well. In WW2, we locked up the Japanese citizenms of this country but not the German or Italian citizens (of the Axis powers). We recovered from that. We didn't impeach Roosevelt who is considered one of the greatest liberals.

Nobody with two neurons firing (and that would be me and thousand of other loyal Democrats and maybe some reasonable Republicans, too) is suggesting rushing to impeachment without "that little ol' investigation part." That's ludicrous. You can't impeach on *nothing*. There is plenty already on the record to fuel impeachment proceedings -- once the new Congress is seated in January.

# Most of the country, in my opinion, does not want to see this sideshow. There are other important issues to be solved, like the Iraq War, jobs, the economy, trade, infrastructure, the deficit, etc. It will be too polarizing and many people want no further polarizing


What most of us are talking about now is making it clear that we expect the new Congress to do its constitutional duty.

# There will be investigations I am sure. When one thinks about it, probably every prezsdent could have been impeached. Think Reagan and Bush 1 on Iran/Contra, Kennedy and the steel strike, Johnson, Nixon etal on Vietnam, etc.


If enough evidence is documented (piece of cake, and John Conyers has already done that), it follows, constitutionally, that our representatives must impeach (impeachment isn't conviction), or violate their oaths of office.
# I don't think so



Pelosi is not a ruler by divine right. She has put her foot in her mouth with her "off the table" comment, and it is causing a lot of division in the party.

# I don't think so

If she didn't really mean it, she shouldn't have said it. If she did mean it, she is assuming for herself powers that she does not have without the consent of the governed.
# I don't think so


The other side of hate is mature holding to account of leaders who have trampled on our laws, taken us into an illegal war...this list goes on and on.

#For calling the war illegal, tell me specifically which law(s) you reference Bush violated. He has the right under the Constitution to wage war, no matter if the whole world thinks it's dumb. Impeachment will turn into a giant pissing contest because Bush will keep bringing up WMD.

[DoYouEverWonder]

51. So?

It is up to WE THE PEOPLE to DEMAND impeachment.

Nothing less will do.

[mmonk]

59. You don't file articles of impeachment without first investigating.

So when they say "impeachment is off the table", does this mean they are going to do investigations but there will be no impeachment no matter what or does it mean (what usually occurs) that investigations that might lead to impeachment? If you believe that declaring investigations and oversight means these will lead to impeachment if warranted even with the declaration that impeachment is off the table, then prove it. I want it in writing from them that that is what they mean.

[txindy]

63. There will be investigations. That's what Waxman has said.

He even joked about how there "are so many areas of possible wrongdoing, his biggest problem will be deciding which ones to pursue....There's the response to Hurricane Katrina, government contracting in Iraq and on homeland security, political interference in regulatory decisions by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Food and Drug Administration, and allegations of war profiteering..."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-11-10-waxman_x.htm?csp=34

Sounds like a tremendous undertaking of some very serious charges. It also sounds as if the finding of wrongdoing in virtually any of those investigations could lead to imprisonment or impeachment or both. However, calling them "impeachment investigations" or even suggesting that outcome before an investigation if completed, certainly would give the appearance that the 'facts' are being fixed around our desired outcome. That sounds far too much like what we're investigating.

We also have to take into account John Conyers and his meticulous documentation of so many of the possible crimes this admin. has committed in the last six years. His contribution to any and every investigation will be enormous. I doubt that either Conyers or Waxman will be doing all of this just for political points. This is about justice and the truth.

I would certainly infer from the Dems' enthusiasm to investigate that there would actually be a point where prosecution (and/or impeachment) becomes a reasonable outcome. After all, what would be the point of all the investigating if no resolution is ever intended? :shrug: You could always contact Waxman's (or Pelosi's) office and ask. However, if there's even the slightest chance that they are keeping the threat of impeachment as an effective tool to rapidly advance much needed legislation, you'll probably only get a repetition of the official line (i.e., "Impeachment is off the table."). That's to be expected. Again, we can't suggest impeachment prior to officially investigating or we are open to reasonable charges of fixing our findings around the desired outcome. However, the outcome of any of these investigations could certainly throw impeachment back on to the table quite dramatically.

How about we at least wait until we're no longer the minority and the new Congress is seated in January? Then we can see what they'll do. My money is on Waxman and Conyers. But they need the power of their new positions come January before anything can begin.

[elocs]

72. Do the impeachment now crowd want to make Pelosi look weak?

She did say impeachment was off the table, not that it would never happen. There is a procedure for this and let's allow the investigations and hearings to do the legwork for a strong and airtight impeachment case that will have very broad public support. I want the impeachment process to be done right rather than be done immediately because I cannot stand it anymore. If Bush is impeached and then quickly not convicted will that be satisfying? Also, the American public will hold us responsible for doing other things than impeachment 24/7.

Although we disagree, neither symbolman or myself are Republicans, so save it. I respect the opinions of those with whom I disagree and feel no need to resort to petty name calling. When somebody does that to a fellow DUer they have lost the debate. Plus, I will report them each and every time.

[mmonk]

76. What is an impeachment now crowd?

[elocs]

78. The ones screaming, "we must impeach, we must impeach, no waiting".

No "impeachment is off the table" as Speaker Pelosi declares and I certainly see the implication that it is off the table for now. It will happen in due course, but it can't be the first thing out of the starting gate. That is what I mean by the impeachment now crowd--they have no patience and they cannot wait. Either our new Speaker means what she says or her words have no meaning.

[mmonk]

79. Depends on what off the table means, doesn't it?

So define it. Give proof of your examples. Personally, I've contacted my congressman and am waiting for what it means. Then I will know. Also, impeachment can't begin now with this session of congress. An investigation or investigations always preceeds the articles to impeach. Otherwise, one doesn't know what charges to bring forth to the Senate. People that support impeachment know this.

[elocs]

84. I know what it doesn't mean.

It doesn't mean that the first order of business of the new Congress controlled by the Democrats is to start impeachment hearing and investigations and call them that. It seems that there are many who cannot wait for the process to play out. Many cannot wait for that and demand impeachment now, now, now.

[mmonk]

86. Whatever, but I didn't request what it didn't mean.

[elocs]

87. Like it or not, that's all I have to give, not being a mind reader.

But I do trust Pelosi and Conyers, who backs her up, more than the armchair political quarterbacks here, of which I include myself. Two months before the Democrats take power there are some who are trashing their strategy before it even begins. Impressive.

[mmonk]

91. Impressive that you think questioning is trashing.

[seemslikeadream]

2. Sounds good to me

The Iran Contra guys are back, when ARE we gonna stop them?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2698070&mesg_id=2698251

[fooj]

32. I followed the Iran/Contra Hearings...

this is THE SAME GROUP OF PLAYERS! Crap. I feel like I'm living a deja-mare!

[SnoopDog]

3. Good observation Symbolman...

The entire Bush family are the worst kind of crooks - have been since the days of Hitler.

We got to rid our government of all Bush's once and for all... Legally and peacefully... of course

[symbolman]

12. Thanks, I don't say this lightly

and haven't joined the Insult Brigade over this subject, thinking we should suck this guy dry first, BUT NOW, as he's INSTALLING ALL the criminals from BUSH SENIOR'S Pardon LIST, I'm INCENSED and want them ALL out, and THIS might just be the only way to FRY all the Bush criminals before, like Tapeworms you have to half KILL the HOST creature to get rid of the parasites :)

[SnoopDog]

22. I guess some do not understand the word 'dynasty'

The American populous finally understand what is going on and are REJECTING the Bush family. Lil Bush has summoned direct intervention from pappy as opposed to pappy being the puppet hand. This truly is unacceptable. You obviously hit a cord of truth.

Thanks, Symbolman... I know you do more than your fair share for our democracy.

[grasswire]

31. how do we know he has summoned direct intervention?

From press accounts it sounds as if this appointing to administration posts is being done with no legal or Constitutional authority. I believe this to be an insult to the rule of law and the Constitution.

I hope to God someone starts asking questions. The press is so enamored now of the storyline where the Oedipal relationship is further strained by the wise father overpowering the weak son! It's propaganda, people! Propaganda!

[symbolman]

33. PROPAGANDA is RIGHT

Just read that MSNBC Article if you want to enjoy a LONG love letter, complete with the Oedipal refs to make it ALL RIGHT with US somehow, Comparisions to CHURCHILL fighting germany, OUR FOUNDERS Fighting the British for CHRISTS SAKES!!

It was SO Disgusting that I think the REPORTERS that wrote that should be forced to RESIGN, and maybe if enough of us started Beating the Media BUSHES about writing LOATHSOME GARBAGE like that we might get somewhere..

We NEED to HAMMER Reporters like that, fill their mailboxes and their bosses to OVERFLOWING, boycott their products, mags, etc.

WE HAVE HAD IT, We're mad as HELL and not going to take this SUCKER WRITING anymore. it's tantamount to FIFTH COLUMNISTS in my opinion. They have deserted the Principles of the FOURTH ESTATE and have completely sold out...

Sheer Propaganda, buzz words, distortions, distraction, it's all right there. They even give BUSH SENIOR the Honor of having DESTROYED the COLD WAR, and these are the same folks that gave that "distinction" to REAGAN, so which is it? Reagan the Brain Dead, or Bush the CORRUPT that did it?

I'm just about ready to take that NewsWEAK article and Tear it to pieces with FACTS, and share it with web folks. We need to get these BLOGS in LOCKSTEP if we are to goad the Dems into the Actions WE DESIRE, and SHAME the MEdia into covering it.

TIme for Takebackthemedia.com to pull a Phoenix and rise from our own ashes and Take these son of a bitches to Task.

NO ONE Elected THIS BUSH, and That is a FACT. THey can waffle about Bush Junior, but WE DID NOT ask for HW to "pull us back to the CENTER" as the Article proposes. No one I KNOW did.

Notice on the cover that the ELECTION is in small letters at the top, like a last minute addition, yet THERE'S MINI ME and his CORRUPT beyond all repair Father.

If I wanted an Ex Prez to take the reins due to W's IMPOTENCY, it would be President CLINTON.

Thanks for the Oedipal reference, reminds me that there are INTELLIGENT people here that GET IT :)

[Erika]

7. W stuck his thumb in his mouth and yelled "Daddy, help me"

BBC and the World press is not treating junior kindly which they shouldn't.

[moodforaday]

58. This is not the point, is it?

The problem right now is that MSM are actually *welcoming* the Dad, along with his bunch of criminals. They are getting billed as saviors now. It's beyond ridiculous.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. But HW Will Have A Job For Big Dawg

HW's buddy Big Dawg can be ambassador to China or something.

[symbolman]

16. Yeah, he can have Big Dog

wipe Junior's ass now.. :) Oh wait, HE's Doing that.. Poor little Mano a Mano..

Congenital YELLOW STRIPE on every Bush's BACK.

I STILL don't understand President Clinton getting anywhere NEAR those people.. never will get it..

[silverojo]

11. OK, I missed something....

What's this crap about Bush "installing" Poppy Bush for anything??

[symbolman]

14. I'm missing something too

the pleasure of reading your profile.

[Octafish]

13. Both are crooks. Maybe we can retroactively impeach Poppy.

The turd's got stuff to answer for going back to the JFK assassination.

[symbolman]

15. Yeah, but his SON first thing

LOCKED all that UP so we couldn't hammer at it and expose them ALL while there was a BUSH in the WHITE HOUSE.

If the Dems are all for Transparency then let's SEE what's in those BUSH PAPERS from long ago, eh?

[Octafish]

18. Chimpeach the crazy monkey.

By all means and ASAFP.

Smirk has done impeachable stuff from high crimes and misdemeanors to criminal dereliction of duty as commander-in-chief to treason.

Poppy, too.

Here's stuff the WaPo won't touch, let alone an honest presstitute:

They certainly haven't run anything on this FBI memo where Poppy names a suspect and states his whereabouts and activities on the day JFK was killed:



SOURCE: http://www.internetpirate.com/bush.htm

Lots more (not perfect, but better than WaPo): http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush.htm

[Swamp Rat]

20. We gotta pull up the Bushlers by their roots

[Octafish]

23. Tenemos que dale candela...

... a todos los cobardes, Compay.



Claro, tiene que ser en una manera justa.

[Swamp Rat]

24. ¿justa? ¡Aquí está la manera justa!:

[fooj]

34. Octafish...

I think Poppy is taking over to protect POPPY. IMO, this isn't about salvaging Jr's "presidency"...

I think the old man is worried. Dimson will be his ultimate ruin.

[symbolman]

36. Hadn't thought of that but You're RIGHT

If Bush slips and allows transparency which a LOT of dems are asking for, that MAY include dipping into his past, all those papers that Bush Junior IMMEDIATELY LOCKED UP, the First Thing he did when entering office if you look..

Poppyists don't want that to get loose, could ruin their whole plan. Who cares what they call it, NeoCons or Bush Senior's "NEW WORLD ORDER" which sure sounds to me like NEOCON material, and gave me GOOSE BUMPS when I first heard THAT :)

Good Point, let's pass that one around too!

[fooj]

37. What I see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2700674&mesg_id=2701623

[conscious evolution]

40. "NEW WORLD ORDER"=NEOCON

NEOCON =New con

[symbolman]

41. LOL

Good one, simple math eh?

No one seems to remember the EX Head of the CIA, a man who'd never been elected to ANY OFFICE other than the presidency, talked of a NEW WORLD ORDER..

they are buffalo'ing a brand new generation of people, with reinventing Bush Senior, brilliant, his SON is a LOSER, so that makes HIM a Statesman?

Bullshit.

Thanks for the comment, makes PERFECT sense to me :)

[Swamp Rat]

19. IMPEACH BUSH!

[nolabels]

46. Shouldn't that be in the plural form?

What happens if the BFEE becomes one of them dysfunctional kind of families and starts ratting each other out :scared:

[shadowknows69]

26. I'm as dumbfounded as you SM

It's like getting rid of a cockroach infestation just to let a bunch of rats move into your cellar.

[Chomskyite]

27. I'm with you BUT

. . . do you really think we can get 16 Republican senators to vote in favor of Bush's ouster? You've got to be kidding.

[shadowknows69]

28. They couldn't indict Clinton

and no this is not a revenge thing because, Big Dog forgive me, I agreed with the impeachment and I actually thought he should resign. Call me an idealist but I hold our Presidential office to very high standards. Lies, corruption, incompetency of any kind is almost unacceptable. You're running a country of 300 million people, you have to bring a better game to the table than everyone else. Senate indictment or not, impeachment must be on the record for this country to be able to say it stands for justice in the eyes of the world stage. The evidence is pretty clear to the naked eye and I'm sure if investigations take place it will be proven. The spectre of the damage to our international reputation can't be downplayed. it will affect decades of foreign relations to come and we have to stop the bleeding, suck it up and make amends.

[shraby]

30. I expressed similar sentiments earlier today.

2 unelected bushes are 2 too many.

[Sugar Smack]

38. You. Are. My. Freaking. Hero.

I love you with all my heart. :applause: I don't know what else I can say.

[symbolman]

39. There's nothing better than SUGAR SMACKS :)

Ate them for years, cute name too :)

Thanks so much, really appreciate the comment, and send warm feelings back to you too - we're ALL fighting these bastards, and that's why we're HERE on the best board on the web for activism, it's so inspiring here, and I get inspired by folks like you.. sort of like when I go to concerts (and I've played a few so I know what it's like on stage), it's the Audience AND the Performers that make for a good show..

When someone is out there clapping their ass off the performers KNOW that and Everyone else reaps the rewards of that exchange :)

I do just Love that name, I should start calling my lil 22 month old son that :)

[spinbaby]

42. You know, I hate to say it

But 41's goons are an improvement over 43's goons.

[symbolman]

43. If you want a different set of goons

robbing you blind, well I guess it's a change of scenery, still a lot of SNAKES in the Bushes tho :)

[spinbaby]

47. We now have more experienced goons

:eyes:

[DoYouEverWonder]

49. I agree

k&r

[enough]

52. Absolutely right. (nt)

[FraDon]

53. Haiku: Why not impeachment?

Why not impeachment?
It's unnecessary! Why?
Subpoena power!

Enough truth will out.
Resignations and arrests
surely will follow.

Sunshine and fresh air,
so rare and so overdue,
for the peace mongers!

[Generic Other]

55. Investigate all wrongdoing

Then impeach, bring to trial and incarcerate. Just like Saddam.

[moodforaday]

57. I posted about this last night

The undead are stirring. Poppy can run for President again, can't he?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2700103

[The Count]

60. White House - a subsidiary of Carlyle - here's the great discussion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2694674

[texpatriot2004]

61. Oh that's bad nm

[ArmchairMeme]

62. Their Back......

I see Bush Sr. as doing an intervention on Jr. as Jr. does recognize when he fails as his life experience shows. Sr. has bailed him out numerous times.

Sr. sees his chance to get back into control. I believe he has been behind the scenes all along. M$M was also playing along. Maybe this whole scenario has been pre-planned for many many years.

To also see this week the article about Carlyle group and their $44 billion in assets - this was Sr.'s private bank all along.

Things are not as them seem on the surface.

[symbolman]

66. I think things are what they seem

to anyone paying attention like we are, but the Media is COVERING THIS UP, with all their little cutsie pie, "Daddy will make it alright, he's a CENTRIST" propaganda...

[Hubert Flottz]

67. I agree...IMPEACH THE ENTIRE BUSH GANG !

They are GANGSTERS and MURDERERS and THIEVES!

CRIMINALS are running our country!

[opihimoimoi]

82. They know not whot they do....yeah, right....they know alright...they wanna rebound to more

fuckups and domination...

The 6 year Migrain? They wannt more of the same shit...and no asprins either...

[porphyrian]

69. The Last March of the Cold Warriors

Yes, can we make them go away now?

[bbgrunt]

74. ME TOO. There will be no justice without impeachment

And with no justice, this long dark nightmare will just shapeshift and continue.

[jpwhite]

75. I like the changes

I am willing to give this whole change a chance. Look, Bush 41 had a much bigger group of nations that were a part of a true coalition when we fought in "Desert Storm". Maybe those same people can bring other countries into the situation and help bring the sunnis and shias to the table to talk about peace. I want to see what happens first before jumping to conclusions.

Besides, we now have the congress and we can provide true oversight into the defense spending. If many people here are right and the people from Bush 41's administration are nothing but hacks for these defense companies the dems in the congress will catch them in the act. Either there will be peace in Iraq or the Republicans will screw it up even more. It's a win/win situation.

James
[e-mail]

[symbolman]

90. Sorry, we've already caught them in the ACT

and MANY TIMES OVER.

Didn't you happen to notice BAKER Shilling for the THEFT Of our White House? And his boy gets in there and KILLS a LOT of people and NOW they put in his father, and that is okay?

Sorry, they've been PROVEN to be CROOKS and you don't let a THIEF Guard your HOUSE, and certainly not your White House :)

I respectfully disagree with you on that one, don't buy the Revisionism, they are RUTHLESS.. Do a little google search on all of these guys.. they're like the 7th level of HELL :)

[lebkuchen]

77. Bush Sr. as "savior" is a frightening concept

I always thought 41 was scarier than Reagan.

[Jcrowley]

80. Bushes to Bushes

dust to dust
these boys are criminals
Impeach them we must

[Senator]

81. kick

[Wiley50]

85. We Might All Re-Read This From Conyers. The I Card is Being Played

They're just playing it UNDER the table right now

He's been on the hill for 41 years, was on the Judiciary for the NIXON impeachment
and that ole half fox/ half pit bull knows what the fuck he's doing
So does Brother Waxman. We should trust them.

Why We Act
By Congressman John Conyers
t r u t h o u t | Statement

Thursday 02 March 2006

Before sharing some thoughts with you, I wanted to make sure all of you know about an important event in New York City at 8pm tonight. Harper's Magazine is hosting a public forum entitled "Is There a Case for Impeachment?" It will be moderated by Sam Seder of Air America Radio's the Majority Report. I will be on the panel with Lewis H. Lapham, the editor of Harper's and recent author of an article I highly recommend "The Case for Impeachment" (the web article is an excerpt, get the magazine for the whole thing).

We will be joined by Michael Ratner, the President of the Center for Constitutional Rights; my former House Judiciary colleague who served with me during the impeachment of President Nixon, Liz Holtzman; and John Dean, a renowned legal scholar and former White House counselor to President Nixon.

More information can be found at the Harper's website. For those who cannot attend (and my understanding is that the event is at or near capacity) I am told that the Majority Report will be airing it live and C-span will be taping it for a later date.

For some time, I have opened some of my speeches with a fairly standard line about how great democracy is because hardly anyone votes but everyone complains. There is a new variation on this problem among some in the progressive community and it goes like this: nothing we do matters, nothing we do changes anything so why bother doing anything. Here are a few thoughts I will touch upon tonight that I offer in response:

Why We Act

There are few roles in our constitutional government that are more frustrating than being a member of the minority party during a period of one party control of the government. However, at a time when the majority party in general - and the president in particular - appears to be acting in open violation of the laws and the constitution, there are few jobs which are more important to the future of our democratic form of government.

People think of Watergate, or Iran Contra as constituting crises. They were in the sense that an executive branch was acting in violation of the law, and in tension with the majority party in the congress. But in the end, the system worked, the abuses were investigated, and actions were taken - even if presidential pardons ultimately prevented a full measure of justice.

Today, the crisis is substantively and systemically far worse. The alleged acts of wrongdoing - lying about the decision to go to war; manipulation of intelligence; facilitating and countenancing torture; using confidential information to out a CIA agent; open and flagrant violations of federal wiretap laws - are far more egregious than any I have witnessed in my 41 years in Congress. The majority party has shown no ability to engage in simple oversight, let alone challenge the Administration directly. The courts, while operating as an occasional and partial check, are institutionally incapable of delving into most of the controversies we are presented with as a result of limitations on standing, ripeness, and other doctrines. The media, which is increasingly concentrated, was shell-shocked and in some respects cowered by 9/11, and for the most part unwilling to alienate the party in charge.

Faced with that dilemma, we had a choice. We could simply ignore the myriad of transgressions being committed, and continue to reacting to the legislative agenda put before us by the Republican Party on a day-to-day basis, or we could do everything in our power to call attention to and document these very grave abuses of power. I opted for the latter course.

I could not live with myself or my children, if when faced with an Administration that went to war under false pretenses, used classified information to smear political opponents; and wiretapped innocent Americans without warrants, I did not formally respond to it. If the Ranking Member of the Judiciary Committee, which has jurisdiction over the constitution, is silent on these matters, who else can we expect to speak out?

So for the last several years I have:

* Forwarded scores of letters to the Administration requesting information about these abuses, including most notably a letter inquiring about the accuracy of the Downing Street Minutes signed by 122 Members and more than 500,000 Americans.

* Forwarded numerous letters to the Republican Chairs asking them to conduct hearings on these abuses, including a letter signed by 52 Members formally requesting that the Committees on Judiciary, Armed Services, International Relations and Intelligence convene hearings on the Downing Street Minutes.

* Filed Freedom of Information Act requests with the Administration, asked for investigations by GAO, various Inspectors General, and the Justice Department.

* Held our own Democratic hearings, for which we were forced by the Majority to retreat to the basement of the Capitol.

* Completed a comprehensive report on the Downing Street Minutes and the Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution, and Coverups in the Iraq War, which was more than 270 pages and 1000 footnotes in length.

* Filed legislation resulting from our investigation not only censoring the President and the Vice President, but creating a select committee to more fully investigate whether impeachable offenses had occurred.

* When the NSA scandal broke, we again responded - with letters, requests for independent investigations, holding our own hearing, and are now in the process of completing a comprehensive report of these and related civil rights and civil liberties abuses by the Administration since 9/11.

All of this constitutes a public record of the constitutional abuses we have seen, and is designed to stand the test of time. It comes on top of the hearings and Report I prepared on the electoral abuses in Ohio which led to an unprecedented electoral college challenge in the House and the Senate.

Now let me add, in many respects, this is just the tip of the iceberg of the policy failures of this Administration. Over the last six years we have seen a record budget surplus turn into a record deficit; we face trade deficits as far as they eye can see and the near evisceration of our manufacturing base; we have a record number of individuals and families who do not have health insurance; we passed a disastrous Medicare sell out bill; we went through the debacle of Congress and the President politicizing the tragic Terry Schiavo case; Port Security is abysmal, the Homeland Security Department is a joke, and yesterday we learned that Bush knew very well that the levees in New Orleans could be breached even though he later said no one anticipated it. These are all weighty, serious issues. They present significant problems for our nation as well, however, they are not of the same constitutional magnitude as the other issues we're talking about today.

There can be no doubt that today we are in a constitutional crisis that threatens the system of checks and balances that has preserved our fundamental freedoms for more than 200 years. Just because the president's approval ratings is down to 34% and the vice president's approval is down to 18%, does not mean they cannot do severe, long term harm to our nation. Our actions and tonight's forum are an important clarion call to anyone who is listening - that there is a constitutional line that even a president cannot cross without our people standing up and fighting for their democracy.

[pat_k]

88. Don't be surprised when they implement a "resignation exit strategy"

Everyone has their own final straw or #1 reason to impeach. Fortunately, even against the "impeachment is off limits" tide, more and more people are succumbing to their own "last straw" every day.

There are so many crimes against Democracy to choose from -- crimes for which we already http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Senator/10">have EVERYTHING we need -- we just need to convict on one. It doesn't much matter which ones they pick, I think all of us will delighted when the power to destroy has been from the destroyers, whether or not our reasons were in the mix.

Whatever the content of the Ariticles, Republicans will be VERY motivated to keep the WH in Republican hands by using the "resignation exit strategy" to escape impeachment.

It is imperative that we recognize that http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2698968&mesg_id=2705711">time is NOT on our side

Members of Congress must force the choice on them (and they must do it it soon) by making it clear to the WH that they will impeach if they must, but that they want the nation to be CRYSTAL clear that there is nothing partisan about rescuing our Constitution from Bush and Cheney's abuses, therefore they fervently hope they will choose to keep the WH in Republican hands as follows:

1. Cheney resigns, Bush nominates new VP.
   
   The VP must be confirmed by both the House and Senate. Since we elected these folks, if they object to a nominee that objection reflects our will.


2. Bush resigns, new VP is sworn in as President.


3. New President nominates a VP.
   
   Once again, the VP he/she nominates must be confirmed and therefore must meet with our approval (through the people we elected to represent us).

The Democratic members of the Congress who recognize that rescuing our Constitution requires the removal of Bush and Cheney need to sincerely express their fervent hope that Bush and Cheney do this (and they need to actually BE sincere, so they had better give the moral principles long hard thought).

Of course, if Bush and Cheney choose to be removed by force, then the succession We the People established in the 25th amendment will govern, and the Democratic Speaker will take the office of the Presidency. Since this succession is in accordance with the laws we established, it is also a reflection of our will.

Keeping the choices available to the criminals in the WH front and center shifts the accusations that "they are subjecting the nation to a long painful process" to Bush and Cheney.

We must also recognize that Impeachment is the "rescue phase" of the operation. Exacting retribution through prosecution and punishment must follow, but we can't even begin to think about that until we take the massive power of the American presidency out of the hands of lawless war criminals is first and foremost. The actions of Congress are defensive. It will be up to the courts to "get even" (i.e., restore balance to the scales of justice.)

[elocs]

93. Check out this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2707461


John Dean On Impeachment: TruthDig Interview 9/12/06

http://www.truthdig.com/interview/print/20060912_john_d... /

A great read for DUers who are popping a blood vessel about impeachment now from somebody who knows.

[calimary]

94. Me, too!

It's. Just. Time. HIGH Time.

Here's my take on it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2964978&mesg_id=2964978

humbly submitted.

[BeHereNow]

95. Keep this damned thread KICKED!!!

BHN

[upi402]

96. kick

:kick:

[lonestarnot]

97. one more time.

[Swamp Rat]

98. kick

:kick:

[upi402]

100. HW will bite W in the ass when we point out

the way Republicans cried like scalded cats about "Hillary was never elected".
Remember that when she was going to fix our health care system for free?

Well Dr upi402 still prescribes Effemal Rx.