Should impeachment be off the table?

[yurbud]

In addition to Nancy Pelosi's statement to that effect, the mainstream media is trying to dampen any talk of impeachment, and there seems to be a lot of buzz to that effect here.

I have a slightly different idea (vote before you read the other post)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2697215&mesg_id=2697215

[Drum]

1. More polls like this, PLEASE!

:eyes:

[AllegroRondo]

2. Investigate first

if we go into these coming investigations with a goal of Impeachment, the Repubs will portray it to the public as a partisan witch hunt.

So first, investigate everything. When things come to light (and they will) that generate enough outrage for the public to call for impeachment, THEN we go forward with impeachment.

[yurbud]

4. so anything we want is partisan by definition, but if GOP wants it, it's okay?

[AllegroRondo]

7. No, its all about public image

and the Repubs own the media, so we have to be careful.

The majority of voters said their primary concern was corruption, followed by Iraq. So we must go into these investigations looking for corruption. If we say impeachment from the start, the Repubs will twist it into a witch hunt, which will make passing the rest of our laws more difficult, and give them leverage for 2008.

But that does not mean impeachment is off the table, only that it should not be the primary stated goal of the investigations. Let the investigation into corruption go on, and impeachment will happen.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

10. Bingo...

... let the piling up of data, facts and intents go on, screaming "impeachment" above all else will just feed the GOP's partisan hysteria. No one ever heard of "the soft sell"? Don't forget, the Abramoff scandal has new "facts, data and intents" piling up by the week. It took a while, but it worked on Cunningham, Ney, et al...... the GOP doesn't even want to mention them.

Screaming from the sidelines is for sports fans. This is far too serious to mess up by falling through the only "backdoor" the GOP has to attempt to make lemonade from their putrid lemons.

[mmonk]

20. Is this statement short of like "depends on what the meaning of is is"?

"But that does not mean impeachment is off the table"
"impeachment is off the table"

[Imperialism Inc.]

3. Just a thought but perhaps inflamatory rhetoric like a

capitalized "REPUBLICANS" is not the best way to get honest results from a poll!?

[cali]

5. Could you have created a more slanted poll?

Push polling is sooo unsavory.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elocs]

11. Yes, this poll is slanted. At least be honest about it.

I support Speaker Pelosi's decision that impeachment is off the table, but where was the poll choice for me that I want to see the investigations and hearings put it on the table? The poll was written and posed to get the desired response. I am not a GOP apologist and have worked and voted for Democrats since 1972 and I resent it being insinuated that I am because I see that as a violation of the DU rules and will be reporting it.

[yurbud]

12. my bad. I should have made an investigation without impeachment option.

the first choice fits that but doesn't explicitly say it.

[elocs]

14. Good for you. You will know better next time. Thank you. n/t

[yurbud]

15. it would be nice if you DLCers were as hard on GOP as you are on people here

[elocs]

22. You mean like not accusing a fellow DUer of being a freeper or Republican

when they disagree with your opinion? That would be nice. You admitted to making a mistake on your poll and I thought that was big of you and thanked you for it. I thought that concluded rather nicely.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

18. Um ah..

... (deleted by choice, your post explains everything I wanted it to).

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

21. The post had nothing to do with you...

...from the page concerning posting rules:

"...People who are easily offended, or who are not accustomed to having their opinions (including deeply personal convictions) challenged may not feel entirely comfortable here. A thick skin is necessary to participate on this or any other discussion forum."
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html>

[Union Thug]

6. No, but first we need healthcare, mininum wage increase..

repeal of tax cuts (and how about an increase) for the richest in this country, a plan for getting us out of Iraq, and a general dismantling of everything Bush and his criminal syndicate has done since the beginning of this 'residency.

Then, impeach the bastard and jail his cronies.

[yurbud]

28. while we are trying to do those things, the right will come back because we didn't finish them off

conservative ideas deserve a hearing in the marketplace of ideas, but their anti-democratic corrupt thuggery don't.

If we pretend we just had a disagreement about ideas, we endanger our democracy by leaving it open to another attack.

It is one thing to forgive your rapist, it is something else to go on a camping trip with him, and give him the knife and gun.

[Union Thug]

29. Yep. Agreed.

[Eugene]

8. Yes but investigate.

Job #1 for now is law making and governing.
Congress should investigate the Iraq fiasco.
If they find smoking gun proof of impeachable
offenses, then they should prosecute.

Until then, impeachment should be off the table.
George Bush is a lame duck. Democrats should
work to keep him that way.

[sweetheart]

13. what table

when did we agree to a table?

Everything is a rumsfeldian unknown unknown.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

34. Perhaps...

"There is no table".

[Ms_Dem_Meanor]

16. Not only should they impeach

they should lock their asses up in Abu Grahib!!!

[yurbud]

25. yep--the people who say to leave alone act like we're talking about missing office supplies

not rape, murder, kids with their arms burned off, dead soldiers, and making arabs hate us MORE not less.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

17. Impeachment warranted but impractical politically

I feel that if any President ever deserved impeachment it is certainly Bush II. However, without a groundswell of support for his (and possibly, Cheney's) impeachment among Republicans, any push for impeachment that we make will likely be mercilessly spun as a partisan witch hunt by the MSM and GOP and could negatively affect our party's chances for regaining the Presidency and/or maintaining our hold on Congress in 2008. Frankly, I think that we should focus primarily on blocking Bush's radical agenda for the next 2 years, engaging in oversight activities and investigations as warranted, and advocating for and refining some of our own ideas and agenda. I fear that by pushing impeachment to the forefront without widespread support in BOTH parties we will become distracted by it to the point of not being able to address other more important areas of concern among the public (i.e. healthcare, minimum wage, Iraq, etc).

[yurbud]

24. so republicans get to set the agenda in power and veto when out of power?

Geeze, now why wasn't that the case when the roles were reversed?

Could it possibly be because they are the preferred thugs of corporate America, and the Democrats don't want to offend their bosses by pointing out their employees are criminals?

[951-Riverside]

19. No!

He's my president and I don't want anything to happen to him! The damnage has been done and we move on! :eyes: :sarcasm:

[yurbud]

26. just like all them southerners did after they lost the civil war

oh wait, we won didn't we? Why do we have to act like we lost whether we win or lose?

If we are the minority, we can't do anything to offend the GOP because they are the majority and control all the levers of power.

If we are the majority, we can't do anything to offend the GOP because...because what? they'll instigate a military coup?

The military would like to kick their corrupt, greedy, chickenhawk asses more than any of us here would. Democrats probably have their strongest mandate since 1964.

[MrSlayer]

23. Of course not. We know they've committed serious crimes.

This is the time to tell the truth and get it all out there. People are mad but not as mad as they should be. Expose the crimes and the people will demand a resignation or impeachment.

[yurbud]

27. if some of us demand it NOW, it will be easier for the latecomers to figure it out

impeachment level offenses are already out there, and it would be dishonest to say otherwise.

[jpwhite]

30. no to impeachment

I think that this should be put on the back burner. We need to have hearings on how money was spent in Iraq. We need to find out why there are certain projects that aren't even started (like the one hospital that was supposed to be built that is still just a flat piece of nothing). The House Dems should also investigate what happened in South Carolina in 2000 to Sen. McCain. Why was the thing with the "push polling" never investigated as a crime? Why were the GOP in South Carolina allowed to get away with asking stupid questions like, "if John McCain fathered an illegitimate black child would you vote for him?"

We need to find evidence of wrong doing and show the american people that this is more than just a witch hunt. Right now, people in America would view this as revenge for not winning the White House in 2000 and in 2004. You have to play your cards right here. 2007 should be a year of fact finding. 2008 should be a year where we start to convict some of the people on the staff and any of the people at KBR or Haliburton who did anything wrong. We need to show the American people that the congress under the Republicans did no kind of oversight at all. Then we will end up adding seats in both the House and Senate.

Don't bother going after Pres. Bush.....save it for Sen. McCain. When he wins the nomination for president, then bring these issues up during the presidential race. Questions like these should be asked:

1) Sen McCain why didn't you do more to make sure KBR and Haliburton didn't spend too much money on projects in Iraq?

2) Sen McCain why didn't you make sure that the troops had more of the equipment they needed to fight an urban war in Iraq?

3) Sen McCain why didn't you do something about the hospital project that was never even started even though the contractor got paid millions of dollars to build it?

This is how we win the White House. Getting Pres. Bush impeached is not the goal. Winning the White House is. You have to focus on the things that are most important. I think the people who write history books will take care of Bush 43.

James
[e-mail]

[Clarkie1]

31. This will, thankfully, not be decided by a DU poll.

We have responsible leaders like Peolosi, Murtha, and Reid who understand now that they are the leaders of the Congress, not just the Democratic Party. America expects a new kind of leadership, less partisan and more pragmatic. That's what they voted for and that's what they are going to get.

This new leadership will put us in an excellent position to retain the Congress and take back the White House in 08. It's the klnd of grown-up leadership America expects, and it's the kind America deserves.

Yes, impeachment now is off the table.

[yurbud]

32. or by voters, just the DLC and Chamber of Commerce. Is grown up leadership one that looks the other

way for historic wrong-doing and crimes?

This sounds like the Weimar coming back AFTER Hitler and apologizing to the Nazis for beating them.

How exactly do you take back the White House with cowardice?

[Clarkie1]

33. It will be decided by the will of the people.

The people want progress, not partisan bickering.

He'll be out in 2. Chill.

[yurbud]

37. What would rise to the level of impeachment for you? Welching on a promise to a corporate donor?

[AntiFascist]

38. Great point...

and the real issue with the Democratic Leadership is that they would rather try to fold some of the Bush supporting public into their ranks, rather than set them straight and teach them a lesson. Total corruption has now become the status quo and they are setting the precedent.

[yurbud]

43. it's not the Bush supporters, but the people at the top. Unfortunately, you are probably right about

the corruption.

The DLC thinks they can do it better and subtler than the GOP, and they are afraid impeachment might spoil it for all of them for a while, and they'd actually have to look out for the public interest.

[blogslut]

35. kind of a slanted poll

Don't you think?

Where is the option for:

Investigate. Subpoena. Hold hearings. Then, vote for impeachement?

[obxhead]

36. No vote - We NEED to Govern, not blame the past...

of the last regime.

[yurbud]

39. I think Jeffrey Dahmer was the first to say that. "Let's forget the past. I'm full anyway."

[yurbud]

40. you give yourself away when you barely paraphrase a GOP talking point. When will the Jethros

"get over" the Civil War and the rest of the country telling them to stop the Jim Crow crap?

When will the rich get over paying a fair share of taxes?

When will elected officials get over actual voters expecting them to do more than obey their faxes from the Chamber of Commerce?

When will the DLC get over people actually paying attention to the action of politicians and not just the patronizing hallmark shit they spew on us every election?

When will both parties get over people wanting a choice between more parties than and elmer gantry lynch mob and passive Mr. Rogers punching bags, both of who spend a great deal of time talking about god, guns, gays, and something that starts with g related to abortion?

[yurbud]

41. and they won't be past for long if we don't properly catalog and punish their crimes

it will be tough to convince people in the future how bad the Bushies were when it didn't even merit the level of attention given to Clinton's blow job.

[yurbud]

42. How well did get over it work for Reconstruction, the October Surprise, Iran Contra...

Lincoln thought it would heal the nation to give the Southern slave owners a soft landing and easy entry back in the Union, and for his thoughtfulness, he got a bullet in the back of the head and a century and a half of loathing from those people.

Likewise, when the Democrats decided not to go after the top people in the Reagan/Bush administrations for Iran Contra and the October Surprise, their thank you was nearly a decade of investigations of Bill Clinton's penis and an impeachment.

Do you forget history that quickly?

Or do you have some other agenda?

Nothing will get down if the Democrats are hammering out the details of some legislation and the GOP sneaks up on them with meat cleavers. You don't do much once your head is hacked off.

[BootinUp]

44. The idea that there would ever

be republican support (significant support say 30%) is ridiculous. Ain't gonna happen.

[yurbud]

46. 30% is the number that would never support it. Highest GOP poll for Nixon impeachment?

[bobthedrummer]

45. kick