sorry to pee in your Wheaties, but after what happened to Ford in TN

[leftofthedial]

how can anyone think Obama has a ghost of a chance running for President in the US?

[Lautremont]

1. TN: relatively small, white.

US: much, much larger, more cosmopolitain, mottled in color.

I'd say he has a chance and the Ford result has little relevance.

[Donnachaidh]

6. you are forgetting other states like Mississippi, Alabama

and other southern states. As well as northwestern states that have those militia crazies and former LAPD settling in there. And the heartland isn't totally devoid of racists either. They just haven't been put into a position to choose lately.

I'm sorry, as much as I like Obama, I think th ethugs would have a field day revving up all that suppressed racism out there in the US.

[Maddy McCall]

10. And you are forgetting that Mississippi has many towns and cities...

with black mayors and black town councils.

We're not all racist bumfuck hillbillies.

[Bake]

48. The mayor of Jackson MS, the state capital, is black.

But then, he's on trial this week on weapons charges ... oops. Nevermind.

Bake

[Maddy McCall]

52. He's the exception, not the rule.

How ya doing, Bake?

:hi:

[Bake]

58. Yeah, ol' Frank's pretty "exceptional!"

Doin' just fine and dandy up here in Central Miss! How 'bout you?

Bake

[Moloch]

36. OK but Mississippi, Alabama, Idaho and Utah....

Aren't going to become blue any time soon and it doesn't matter if all the ignorant, racist rednecks that live in those states don't vote for us. Frankly, I hope all the rednecks in the U.S. move to those states so they will only be a factor in those places.

[tnlefty]

41. Gee, thanks. We've had an influx of racist fucks from other states during

the past 20 years and they're fuckin' it up for everybody. But thanks for wishing even more of them on us who are struggling with them. I wish all of the states that they moved here from were forced to come get them and take them back.

[AlGore-08.com]

8. Small, white Tennessee will have 11 electoral votes in 2008

And if Obama (or anybody) only carries the states that Kerry won, they will loose the electoral college 286 to 252.

I'm just sayin'...

[Clark2008]

53. Yeah, but if small, white Tennessee had voted for its son, Gore,

then Florida would NOT have been an issue.

Just sayin'...

[Renew Deal]

20. Last year in Nassau County, NY...

Last year in Nassau County we had county elections. All of the Democrats won by several thousand votes except a black woman who ran for County Clerk. What a freaking coincidence. Don't pertend it's isolated to a small southern state. It's everywhere.

[Lautremont]

26. I pretend no such thing.

I just don't think results from Tennessee can be extrapolated to the entire country, in two different elections in two different years with two different men.

[Hawkowl]

34. You need to get out more

I admire your optimism. I voted for Jesse Jackson in '88. However, you really need to get out more into the hinterland of this country. Racism is everywhere. Less in the bigger, cosmopolitan cities, especially with significant minority populations (it's hard to fear and hate your neighbor). But barely concealed out in the rural areas and major city's suburbs, e.g; Dupage County, Illinois.

From what I've witnessed, traveling to virtually every state in the union, is that the South would be virtually impossible. Yes, Obama would motivate black turnout, similar to Jackson in 1988, but it would also supercharge the racist turnout as well. There are more racists than black folk in the south. Similarly I believe, racist turnout would be way above normal in other rethuglican base states such as Indiana, Kentucky, Kansas, Idaho, and threaten swing states such as Missouri, Ohio, and West Virginia.

I think this fact, coupled with Obama's extraordinary inexperience, makes 2008 just not to be his year. And I've followed his career since he was an Illinois state legislator way back in the early 90's. He needs one full term as Senator and then preferably a stint as a senior cabinet member, or V.P. then he could have the gravitas to win over suburban and rural voters.

[Erika]

2. Because it won't be limited to a Southern State

who doesn't elect blacks?

[Clark2008]

42. But we have to flip some Southern and mid-Western states

- which are even more WHITE than Southern states - to win. That's why.

[Warpy]

3. He has a chance if he dumps the DLC rhetoric

Other than that, forget it.

[countmyvote4real]

12. I think we have a clue here.

Both Ford and Obama are very smart and intelligent men. They both share inspiring personal stories. And both, while one not as much as the other, cannot seem to "press forward" as much as MLK or RFK did back in the day. Their nuances may be a result of the political geography, but any politician that really wants to go national should consider the current drift in the wind and blow in that direction. Otherwise, they'll be left in the dust corporate and milk toast pablum.

They are both too smart not to have figured this out, so why haven't they seized the opportunity? I'm guessing that the spectre of MLK/RFK is too strong a reminder for what becomes those that REALLY do what they HAVE to do to CHANGE things for EVERYONE.

I hope they will press forward in their future campaigns for our votes.

[Hailtothechimp]

4. Easy enough. Read Obama's books and you'll get it.

The man is brilliant. No ghostwriters for him. He just lays it all out.

I haven't read the new book yet, but I closed the first book thinking "I want him to be president. And soon."

Since I live in Illinois, I got to vote for him once already. The rest of the country (neanderthal racists excepted) would like to vote for him too. And the only way they can will be in November of 2008 (and the primary season before it).

Harold Ford may be a great guy, but Obama has advantages that he never will.

[leftofthedial]

25. I like the guy

except for his DLC leanings

but most of the Midwest, all of the South and most of the West are the neanderthals of whom you speak--easy for the repukes to rile up against the "uppity black man"

[KingFlorez]

5. One state doesn't represent the country as a whole

Most of the potential voters for Obama are outside the south anyway.

[Bluebear]

7. Ideologically dissimilar gentlemen from what I can tell, no?

[Telly Savalas]

9. Well, fuck, let's nominate David Duke in 2008.

Since it's impossible to win without courting the racist vote, we need somebody with a proven track record of winning with this demographic.

[MGD]

11. Let's run him with Hillary. There's a winning combination. Fuck Howard Dean. He has no chance.

He's just so unelectable unlike Obama and Hillary.

[Bluebear]

13. 'Fuck Howard Dean.' ??

[MGD]

19. I thought I could omit the dripping sarcasm emoticon.and people would still understand

that I was, in fact, being sarcastic.

[countmyvote4real]

14. Tell me, why do you want to fuck Howard Dean?

Hate fuck? Love fuck? Drunk fuck and/or post? I'd really like to know your reasons behind the expression.

[Mind_your_head]

15. ehm, my 2 cents (and please don't flame me for this)

I don't think comparing Ford to Obama is a reasonable comparison. In fact, I think it's kind of racist of you to bring it up ~ the only similarity is that both of them are 'black'.

Ford has some "issues" that may not sit well with people (like giving the $40,000(?) to the Chicago nightclub owner's defense fund where fire killed more than 40 people)...there was something else "big" but I don't remember it right now....

Obama (to my knowledge) doesn't have anything hugely skeletal in his closet. He seems to be refreshingly honest (and not prudish) about those youthful 'potential skeletons' (i.e., "I inhaled. That was the point")

Here's the part I especially don't want to be flamed for, but it's my honest reaction/opinion....when I saw Ford for the first time on the teevee (computer actually)....I thought he looked "creepy". I dunno, perhaps it's the eyes (window to the soul and all of that)....it's the same thing I felt when I saw Donald Rumsfeld for the first time, just gave me shivers.

Obama has a nice, straight-forward look in his eyes. He appears to be 'wholesome'....black or white I don't care, Obama is someone who could more easily earn my trust. Obama doesn't in any way set off my "creep-o-meter", while Ford at first glance DID.

Again, for *me* it's not about black/white....some people just set the ole' creep-o-meter into the "hazard zone".

(My apologies Mr. Ford if I'm wrong about you, that's just what I feel/felt).

Peace,
M_Y_H

[countmyvote4real]

17. http://www.firedoglake.com/

http://www.firedoglake.com/
Scroll down to "More Ethics Problems for Democrats?"

You decided. Is this much ado about nothing or do we have a problem here?

[Mind_your_head]

27. "These are the times that try (test) men's souls"

Mr. Obama is being tested. "They" want to know if he's a 'player'. And if he's not, well....

It's an indescretion (but a definite learning experience for the 'new guy') $300,000 ?!? that's "small fry" compared to what could await him in the future....look at Dennis Hastert's 1.8 million land deal, or the Ted Stevens "Bridge to Nowhere".

I hope Mr. Obama has "learned his lesson, and doesn't 'inhale' any further"....it will be bad for him and bad for the country if he listens to the "Sirens' song".

Honest (not perfect) leaders are what this country (and most people) CRY OUT FOR. He could 'be one of those "rare" guys who rise above the fray and project the character & integrity and goodness that people want/need.

Again, "these are the times that try men's souls"

Peace,
M_Y_H

P.S. (and don't flame me for THIS, but, "It's not ALL ABOUT MONEY, dammit!!! I'm sick and tired of it. There are many more things that are of much greater value that money 'just can't buy' ~ EVER!!!)

[KharmaTrain]

18. You Did Your Homework...

Many here bought into some image of Obama as being the re-incarnation of Martin Luther King & Bobby Kennedy. He isn't, never has been.

It's not as though my Junior Senator is some snake. Far from it. I supported him in '04 and will do again when I hope he runs for re-election in '10. He is a moderate who built up his power through being a go-along, get-along politician. That's the only way he could have risen in the Chicago machine and get the political capital and support that made his nomination and election possible.

A DU poster from TN who worked for Ford put it best...he said Ford lost because he tacked too far right...his "guns and girls" crap turned off as many Democrats as the "call me" spot hurt his electability. If you bought into that commercial, you were already racists and there'd be no way you'd vote for Ford even if he was a raving wingnut. Also, Ford was too busy trying to be "mainstream" and courting the white vote and totally ignored his base...the blacks. I just saw a report that showed black voting numbers down in Memphis...why was that?

Obama needs to prove himself. What has he done to distinguish himself yet? What legislation has his name on it? What cause can you see his face attached to? He's still a rookie...and in the Senate one rarely does much in their first term. Hopefully, now in the majority, we'll see Senator Obama step forward a little more and then in '12 let's take a measure of the man...he'll still be young...and see if he's "got the stuff"...and where the country is at that time.

My hopes are in my lifetime to see a woman and/or black President...but not because of their gender or color, but because they were the most competent to do the job.

Thank you for your post...

[Katherine Brengle]

23. "Obama needs to prove himself. What has he done to distinguish himself yet?

What legislation has his name on it? What cause can you see his face attached to? He's still a rookie...and in the Senate one rarely does much in their first term. Hopefully, now in the majority, we'll see Senator Obama step forward a little more and then in '12 let's take a measure of the man...he'll still be young...and see if he's "got the stuff"...and where the country is at that time."

My thoughts exactly. As far as I know, Obama has yet to shine out from the crowd.

Seems like a great guy, but great guy isn't enough. I like what I know about him, but it isn't enough.

Give him some more time, and maybe he'll be able to fulfill the promise he seems to have...

[Mind_your_head]

32. Your's is a very reasoned post.....

Patience.

[leftofthedial]

33. they both are black. I'm no racist, but that's about half the point.

The GOP showed in Tennessee just how low they'll go. The election results nationally also showed how relatively ineffective the centrist Democratic message is compared to a more authentically progressive Democratic approach.

[MrSlayer]

16. I agree.

I think some are in denial when it comes to racism and sexism in this country.

[dramachick]

21. A lot of dems are racist too, not just southerners and repubs

Anyone who seriously thinks that Obama or any black man could be elected president in 2008 is either disconnected from reality or woefully naive. I don't need an article or stats to tell me this, but for those who do:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/13/AR2006041301776.html

In fact, white Republicans nationally are 25 percentage points more likely on average to vote for the Democratic senatorial candidate when the GOP hopeful is black, says economist Ebonya Washington of Yale University in a forthcoming article in the Quarterly Journal of Economics. White independents are similarly inclined to vote for the white Democrat when there's a black Republican running, according to her study of congressional and gubernatorial voting patterns between 1982 and 2000, including five Senate races in which the Republican nominee was black.

But racially motivated crossover voting is not just a Republican phenomenon. Democrats also desert their party when its candidate is black, Washington found. In House races, white Democrats are 38 percentage points less likely to vote Democratic if their candidate is black.

[Marr]

22. Wait- do you mean because he's black, or because he's a DLC?

Either way, I agree with you. Being black will cost him the racist moron vote, and being DLC will cost him the non-moron vote.

[leftofthedial]

24. both is the kiss of death

[Katzenjammer]

49. Exactly. All it proves is that Tenneseeans aren't so stupid as DINO Central would like (nt)

[Individualist]

51. You get it, Katzenjammer

DINO Central (DLC) was stupid enough to think that TN democrats are so blindly loyal to the party - a trait we've criticized repukes for many times - that they would disregard the fact that Ford voted for the torture bill and warrantless wiretapping.

[Syrinx]

28. let's look at previous races for that seat

In 1988, Jim Sasser, a white Democrat was re-elected to the Senate from Tennessee with 65% of the vote.

In 1994, Jim Sasser, the white incumbent, lost, receiving only 42% of the vote.

In 2000, Jeff Clark, a white Democrat, lost, receiving only 32% of the vote.

In 2006, Harold Ford Jr., a black Democrat, lost, yet he did receive 46% of the vote, the largest percentage that a Democrat had received for that seat in 18 years.

[Clarkie1]

29. I don't think Ford lost because of race.

I don't think he was a strong candidate. I don't see any evidence race had anything to do with it.

[JCMach1]

30. Yes it did... His confrontation with Corker confirmed the

(excuse the terminology here) uppity black stereotype... THAT WAS FORD'S FAULT

and

the 'call me' ad firmly played into the southern fear of miscegenation...

Corker was a terrible candidate. Almost any other Dem would have stood a great shot at winning that race. That's the sad fact...

Or, not so sad... Ford was way too DLC for me.

[Clarkie1]

31. I actually thought Corker came off as a better campaigner and public speaker.

He seemed more like a regular guy. And I never could figure out what the significant differences were between Corker and Ford on the issues.

[Hawkowl]

35. Corker was more of a regular

Tennessean. Because he was white. Period. The only reason Ford got as close as he did was because of the Democratic tsunami. Yes, he is very DLC but that is what most of TN wants--at least white TN.

I agree with you that he could've been a stronger candidate, but I believe if he had been white, he'd a won in a walk. It would've been a choice between two good ole boys, and the people was throwin' out the old ole boys.

I'm also curious as to how high a percentage of black turnout Ford managed to motivate? He comes from a political family tainted with scandal. I wonder if that coupled with his conservatism dampened the black vote?

[Clarkie1]

38. Interesting.

"I'm also curious as to how high a percentage of black turnout Ford managed to motivate? He comes from a political family tainted with scandal. I wonder if that coupled with his conservatism dampened the black vote?"

What makes you think that his coming from a political family tainted with scandal failed to motivate all voters, not just black? Voters this year voted against Washington insiders. How was he different than Corker on policy issues?

I see no conclusive evidence that Ford lost because of race, only unsubstantiated speculation not supported by the facts.

[Clark2008]

43. Better public speaker?

:puke:

Not to this East Tennessean who thinks Corker sounds like a backwards idiot.

I have a Southern accent, but I don't sound like I have no education - which Corker's squaking sounds like. :puke: again.

I HATE Corker's public speaking (in)ability. It's AWFUL.

[Sgent]

37. Did Ford

get more or less of the white vote than Gore, what about Kerry?

Because therein lies the answer to your question.

If Ford received less than Kerry, then I would be concerned -- but I haven't seen this indicated yet. If he got more than Gore, and less than Kerry, then I think a black man will have as good a chance as anyone.

[rug]

39. Why do you hate Wheaties?

[Clark2008]

40. As a Tennessean, I've been wondering the same thing.

And Tennessee isn't overly racist, either - but, coupled with the lousy media here and those that simply refuse NOT to vote for the candidate with the "R" after their name, racism played enough of a role to tip the balance.

[hedgehog]

44. Ford is no Obama.

From where I sit, Ford was just a pretty face while Obama seems to have the vision to go all the way.

[Rosemary2205]

47. self delete

wrong location.

[savemefromdumbya]

45. not in my Wheaties! Obama will be picked for VP

guess to introduce 'an African American' to voters

[ermoore]

46. Right cause clearly if you don't vote for the minority you're racist.

It wouldn't have anything to do with Ford being a Democrat in a Republican state.

Sure there are some racists that vote, but the fact is that Tennessee is conservative and Ford being a moderate Dem only goes so far.

Why is Tennessee a racist state for not electing Ford (in a close race), but Maryland isn't for not electing Steele (or Mfume)? Seems to me that Maryland's Democrats must all be racist for not voting for Mfume in their primary . . .

[leftofthedial]

50. being black AND running as a repuke lite did Ford in

but I think the racist components of the repuke attacks on Ford are a drop in the bucket to what you'd see if an African American ran for President

and Abama has the "centrist" Democrat handicap, which this election clearly shows does not work.

[dsc]

54. Worse for him is Ohio

We won four of five statewide races including defeating a popular incumbent who had won four times. The only loser, a black woman who had previously run as lt governor.

[RiverStone]

55. Because much more of America is NOT dominated by red state rednecks.

I lived in TN for 3 years. Its slow to change.

Though I do believe we as a country have changed enough to consider an African American for president.

And BTW, if not not in 08 - when do you believe a minority candidate would have a chance???? 10 years, 50 years?

One must have the courage to start some where. Just look at the Civil Rights movement. What if she stayed in the back of the bus? But she did not!

[ISUGRADIA]

56. Ford did better than Kerry or Gore

2006 Ford 47.98%

2004 Kerry 42.53%

2000 Gore 47.28%

[leftofthedial]

57. In a campaign when Democrats utterly slaughtered repukes

nationally.