Murtha is being swiftboated, right here, and CREW is crap.

[dailykoff]

Sorry to rain on the PNAC parade but CREW is somebody's personal swiftboat operation, I don't know exactly whose, that was set up to target Foley, I don't know exactly why.

Murtha plans to put a stop to the PNAC masterplan and that's clearly why we're getting high-rpm spin at about two threads per minute.

:puke:

EDIT TO ADD: "CREW" is a new organization (though it pretends not to be) identifying itself with "the conservative coalition that was so effective in the 90's" -- you know, the one that impeached Clinton:

As we do this, over time CREW will develop a network of public interest groups, sympathetic government investigators and media contacts — a broader, more mainstream version of the conservative coalition that was so effective in the 90's. We will work with that network to focus public attention on government integrity and to educate the public about dishonest or disingenuous government officials. If the past decade is any indication, this network can have a substantial impact on public opinion.

http://www.citizensforethics.org/about/index.php

paging Kenneth Starr....

[Ignacio Upton]

1. If they are a swiftboat group, then why do they list mostly Republicans

On their most corrupt list?

CREW’s Most Corrupt Members of Congress:
Members of the Senate:
Conrad Burns (R-MT)
Bill Frist (R-TN)
Rick Santorum (R-PA)

Members of the House:
Alan Mollohan (D-WV)
Roy Blunt (R-MO)
Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO)
Ken Calvert (R-CA)
Richard Pombo (R-CA)
John Doolittle (R-CA)
Rick Renzi (R-AZ)
Tom Feeney (R-FL)
Pete Sessions (R-TX)
Katherine Harris (R-FL)
John Sweeney (R-NY)
William Jefferson (D-LA)
Charles Taylor (R-NC)
Jerry Lewis (R-CA)
Maxine Waters (D-CA)
Gary Miller (R-CA)
Curt Weldon (R-PA)

Five Members to Watch:
Chris Cannon (R-UT)
J.D. Hayworth (R-AZ)
Dennis Hastert (R-IL)
John Murtha (D-PA)
Don Sherwood (R-PA)

http://www.citizensforethics.org/press/newsrelease.php?view=156

[dailykoff]

5. So they're going after Maxine Waters, too.

That figures.

[Recursion]

56. Yes, and they're very clear about why

http://www.beyonddelay.org/summaries/waters.php

We can't be ostriches like the conservatives were and ignore abuses by those in our caucus.

[NoodleBoy]

2. CREW was set up by former Democratic staffers who've often been accused of partisan bias in their

rankings of the most corrupt congressmen. Suprise-- most of those on their annual list have been Republicans.

[kiahzero]

3. This just in: David Corn is a neocon. (n/t)

[dailykoff]

6. I'm going to take that as a stab at irony.

A failed stab. :)

[kiahzero]

8. It was intentionally absurd.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=140129

[Lautremont]

33. I think his column should be called "Corn Games" instead of

"Capital Games."

[Rainscents]

35. Sounds like to me, she has something personal against Murtha/

Yes, I read it and that is what I'm getting out of the article.

[Helga Scow Stern]

12. David Corn is not very trustworthy, after his behavior

regarding election fraud in 2004.

[kiahzero]

15. Enlighten me, please.

What behavior makes him no longer trustworthy?

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

4. If CREW is a swiftboat operation

Then why are they representing Valerie Plame in her lawsuit against Cheney, Rove, and Libby:

http://www.citizensforethics.org/activities/campaign.php?view=146

[dailykoff]

11. Uh, Valerie Plame worked for the CIA.

Who knows what the hell it is. Possibly a CIA outfit.

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

14. ahem

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You might want to try removing the tinfoil there.

[Kelvin Mace]

20. I dunno

You know they spot weld those things on these days.

[Kelvin Mace]

17. Right!

CREW is a CIA operation.

Let me make a note of that.

Madre di Dio, che fatica essere uomi!

[dailykoff]

21. Read their "About Us" page.

It's certainly possible:

http://www.citizensforethics.org/about/index.php

[Kelvin Mace]

27. I did

You need to read it again.

[alittlelark]

58. Pelosi is my rep of choice here in N CA

She eats nails for breakfast - I'll assume she knows what she is doing. She has yet to disappoint.

[ConsAreLiars]

7. Those spinning the CREW mention of Murtha into a denunciation are the liars,

not CREW. There was indeed a "to watch" alert on Murtha, because of the fact that one of his votes benefited one of his relatives. Those who try to make that advice to "watch" him into a claim that CREW named him as corrupt, something you apparently got conned by, are the ones who need to called out.

(edit: change "kid" to relative")

[dailykoff]

9. I don't buy it.

Look at the list. What did Maxine Waters do? Give stock tips to her mailman?

[IronLionZion]

66. Waters

http://www.beyonddelay.org/summaries/waters.php

has awarded contracts to her immediate family: husband, son, and daughter.

[tex-wyo-dem]

63. Bingo! n/t

[IronLionZion]

65. Murtha's deeds

His brother is a lobbyist and so is one of his former senior staff members. Murtha's votes have helped the lobbyists' clients. Personally, this doesn't bother me too much, but I'd like someone else to be majority leader. We have many good congresspeople.

http://www.beyonddelay.org/summaries/murtha.php

[Garbo 2004]

10. CREW's been around for years. Do your homework since obviously you're

not at all informed about CREW or their work.

[dailykoff]

16. They identify themselves as a "conservative coalition"

and their "About" page self-description is in the future tense, not the past:

As we do this, over time CREW will develop a network of public interest groups, sympathetic government investigators and media contacts — a broader, more mainstream version of the conservative coalition that was so effective in the 90's. We will work with that network to focus public attention on government integrity and to educate the public about dishonest or disingenuous government officials.

http://www.citizensforethics.org/about/index.php

[Kelvin Mace]

25. You are seriously misreading what they said

'A BROADER MORE MAINSTREAM VERSION" are the key words. They are not identifying themselves as a conservative coalition.

Your interpretation is tortured.

[dailykoff]

28. They said "the conservative coalition that was so effective in the 90's."

You know, the one that impeached Clinton?

[Kelvin Mace]

52. Again, you are ignoring the words

"a broader, more mainstream version", meaning NOT conservative.

Jeebus!

[Garbo 2004]

44. No, CREW does not identify themselves as a conservative coalition. CREW is a counter balance

to the conservative outfits like Judicial Watch, etc. You're misinterpreting the passage you copied. Melanie Sloan, for example, is a former Conyers staffer on Judiciary Committee. Other staffer's background includes NAACP, MediaMatters and the ACLU.

What you didn't post:

*...The groups that have pioneered this type of legal advocacy are avowedly conservative: Judicial Watch, the Rutherford Institute, and the National Legal and Policy Center, to name just a few.

Conservative groups such as these have no real parallel in the progressive arena. There are a number of non-partisan groups that address government honesty, including Common Cause, Public Citizen, the Center for Public Integrity, and Democracy 21. While we applaud their efforts, we have noted that these groups focus principally on research and legislation. They do not use litigation to target outrageous conduct, nor do they bring the message of injustice to the people the way their conservative counterparts do. Because these public interest organizations focus mostly on policy issues and not on obstacles faced by ordinary citizens, these groups have not mobilized a shift in public opinion on the issue of government honesty. CREW fills that niche."
http://www.citizensforethics.org/about/background.php

[dailykoff]

45. Sorry, the jig is up.

But your efforts are appreciated. :)

[Recursion]

51. Umm... dude....

are you honestly trying to convince anybody that CREW, an organization set up specifically and explicitly to act as a counterbalance to the conservative attack machine from the '90s, is somehow a 5th column of conservatives?

Let's try to stick with reality here... oh, and if you're going to claim that Murtha doesn't have some acts of questionable ethics in his tenure as a Congressman, I have a cakewalk in the middle east to sell you. That's why Pelosi has to make harsh rules with real punishments for ethics and lobbying reform -- everybody's hands are dirty to some extent.

[Kelvin Mace]

53. Give it up

This fellow is immune to logic, reality and apparently, English.

[dailykoff]

40. That is incorrect. They have NOT been around for years.

They just want you to think they have. Read it again.

[Garbo 2004]

50. Ah, no. You're wrong again.

"Since its founding in 2003, CREW has worked through legal and regulatory channels to press allegations of impropriety almost exclusively against Republicans. Ironically, given CREW's new prominence as a favorite target of vast-left-wing-conspiracy theorists, its litigious approach borrows heavily from the conservative group Judicial Watch, which in the 1990s helped propel Paula Jones' sexual-harassment accusations against Bill Clinton into his impeachment.

Sloan, a former congressional staff member for such liberal lawmakers as Michigan's John Conyers and New York's Charles Schumer, was working as an assistant U.S. Attorney when two Democratic activists approached her with the idea of trying something like Judicial Watch from the left. For its first 18 months, CREW was a one-woman shop. An early target was the seemingly invincible DeLay. Sloan asked the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the House majority leader's fund raising and sued the Federal Election Commission to get more info about his dealings with a Kansas utility. But she was not getting much support from Democratic officials, particularly in the House, where the two parties had declared an "ethics truce" that effectively blocked either side from filing a complaint against the other.

Until, that is, DeLay redistricted Texas Congress- man Chris Bell--now the Democratic nominee for Texas Governor--out of a job. In Bell, Sloan finally had the in-house ally she needed, and under House rules formally filed a CREW-drafted com-plaint in June 2004.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1549301,00.html

And: http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20061025/pl_bloomberg/aw0kid_o9r_k_1

And: http://www.stateenvironmentalwatch.org/search/orgdisplay.asp?org=CRE200

[Kelvin Mace]

13. Hmmm...

There hit list is made up of 90% Republicans.

Give me a break.

[dailykoff]

19. They aren't swiftboating the Republicans. (n/t)

[Kelvin Mace]

55. Really?

So why did their list of the 20 most corrupt lawmakers have 18 Republicans?

[Erika]

18. Do you trust Nancy

Murtha and his wife vistis Walter Knox weekly. You know of any GOP who do that?

[dailykoff]

24. I trust her more than this blow-in swiftboat outift, sure.

You mean Pelosi don't you?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dailykoff]

26. I'm not interested in joining anybody's "conservative coalition," no.

Sorry.

[Kelvin Mace]

29. Again

you have tortured the words to mean what you claim they say. The words on the page do not say what you claim they say.

[dailykoff]

32. They say "conservative coalition."

What am I missing? :shrug:

[Kelvin Mace]

49. You are missing the entire sentence

it is called context. You posted the paragraph, then for some odd reason misinterpreted what it said. They wish to be a more mainstream version of a conservative coalition that was very effective in the 90's, i.e. they want to be effective, but tell the truth instead of the lies like the conservative coalition did.

CREW has impeccable credentials and has attacked many corrupt conservatives. Do you think that simply having a "D" after your name means you can't be corrupt?

[Erika]

34. Huh? You're in his mind?

Why not attack our opponents rather than our own? Answer?

[Kelvin Mace]

48. No, Erika,

I read and comprehend English. I don't have to been in his mind to know he is twisting what CREW said.

I have spent most of my life fighting conservatives and their evil ways. My record is known to anyone who takes the time to do a little looking. If you did your homework, you would know this.

[originalpckelly]

36. Read about this:

"In the 1990s, this litigation strategy was applied to a new area: government integrity. Since the 1970's, citizens' groups have been increasingly active in government investigations ranging from Watergate to Iran-Contra to the Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill matter. But it was not until the 1990's that some watchdog groups hit on the strategy of using private investigation and litigation to parallel and support government investigations. This began with Whitewater, continued through the campaign finance investigations, and culminated in the Paula Jones litigation and the presidential impeachment proceedings. The groups that have pioneered this type of legal advocacy are avowedly conservative: Judicial Watch, the Rutherford Institute, and the National Legal and Policy Center, to name just a few.

Conservative groups such as these have no real parallel in the progressive arena. There are a number of non-partisan groups that address government honesty, including Common Cause, Public Citizen, the Center for Public Integrity, and Democracy 21. While we applaud their efforts, we have noted that these groups focus principally on research and legislation. They do not use litigation to target outrageous conduct, nor do they bring the message of injustice to the people the way their conservative counterparts do. Because these public interest organizations focus mostly on policy issues and not on obstacles faced by ordinary citizens, these groups have not mobilized a shift in public opinion on the issue of government honesty. CREW fills that niche."

Quit trying to fit facts to your version of reality. Supporting a corrupt person doesn't help us at all, it only hurts us, the party, and the country. You should be very ashamed of your deceptions.

[dailykoff]

"This began with Whitewater. . . "

I'm reading you loud and clear.

:rofl:

[originalpckelly]

39. Post #38(nt)

[originalpckelly]

38. Melany Sloan, Executive Director of CREW worked for Rep. Conyers:

"Melanie Sloan, Executive Director
Melanie Sloan serves as CREW's Executive Director. Prior to starting CREW, she served as an Assistant United States Attorney in the District of Columbia, where, from 1998-2003, she successfully tried cases before dozens of judges and juries. Before becoming a prosecutor, Ms. Sloan served as Minority Counsel for the U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee, working for Ranking Member John Conyers (D-MI) and specializing in crime issues."

She worked for Sen. Biden:

"In 1993, Ms. Sloan served as Nominations Counsel to the Senate Judiciary Committee, under then-Chairman, Senator Joe Biden (D-DE)"

A flaming conservative if you ask me.

[Erika]

23. Why so much energy spent on harming our own?

Questions need to be asked and alerts issued. Including admin.

[dailykoff]

30. Maybe they aren't our own.

Just a guess.

[troublemaker]

31. The partisan mindset is less than useful for party leadership elections

Murtha is against the war, so Murtha must be right about everything and anyone who disagrees is part of a PNAC conspiracy...

A person can oppose the war and still be corrupt or amazingly reactionary. (Since 60%+ of Americans oppose the war these days that kind of speaks for itself.)

I don't get this berserker mentality of heroes and villains within the party itself. There are insinuations in this thread about CREW criticizing Maxine Waters, so Maxine Waters must be one of the untouchable heroes, except Waters (leader of the Out of Iraq caucus) is voting for Hoyer.

Is she a traitor?

This is not a black and white issue. This isn't Dems vs. Reps, and this isn't pro-war vs. anti-war.

It's a House leadership post. 99% of Americans will be unable to name the House majority leader UNLESS that leader gets into some sort of trouble. (It's like offensive lineman who toil every play only get their named called when they are offsides)

So all leadership posts should be filled with effective and squeaky clean people--squeaky clean in appearance as well as in their hearts.

[Erika]

37. Murtha, a Marine and his wife visit Walter Knox weekly

Sounds like the kind of guy I like.

[Rainscents]

43. He and very few others visit vets on weekly base.

I have feeling, Murtha is changed man. What I was 5 years ago, I'm not today. Some people do change for much better person and I truly believe, he is one of them. I really admire him for making special visits to vet hospital on weekly base.

[BlueStater]

41. How come only now are we hearing about his supposed corruption?

He has been a public figure for a year now and I haven't heard anything about him having ethical problems until now. He also annouced his intention to run for House Majority leader months ago and I didn't hear about it then either. It's not like this information is new.

[Erika]

42. I'm still curious why we are eating our own?

Freepers must love it.

[Ignacio Upton]

47. The list was published two months ago

n/t.

[Recursion]

54. Speak for yourself; I heard of it in '03

Here's CREW's page on him:

http://www.beyonddelay.org/summaries/murtha.php

About $20 million in earmarks to clients of his brother.

Not the end of the world, not enough even to derail his majority leader campaign, IMO, but part of this housecleaning is we need to be honest about our own and watch our own too.

[originalpckelly]

57. The Internet Archive's Wayback Machine agrees with you:

http://web.archive.org/web/20031212011112/http://www.citizensforethics.org/

And here is a more accurate description from then:
"About CREW

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) is a non-partisan legal watchdog group working to force our government officials to behave responsibly and ethically. CREW's mission is to use the legal system to expose government officials who betray the public interest by serving special interests.

CREW aims to counterbalance the conservative legal watchdog groups that made such a strong impact over the past decade. These groups focused their attention on their left-wing adversaries, leaving the right relatively free from scrutiny. CREW focuses equal attention on misconduct by all, including the right.

CREW differs from other good government groups in that it sues offending politicians directly. There are already many fine organizations working to make government better. Their focus, however, tends to be on passing legislation or publishing information. There is no mainstream group dedicated to taking direct legal action against offending politicians. CREW fills that void."

[IronLionZion]

69. Hell I've known all along, but he's my congressman

it's good to keep tabs on these things.

[originalpckelly]

46. Are we over our ridiculous fit yet?

I know it is hard to hear, but these people we admire are just humans. They fuck up sometimes. We can't forget that.

[Old and In the Way]

59. Either choice is fine by me.

Hoyer is actually more liberal than Murtha. Murtha is carrying a rather impressive club these days. I'm OK with whatever way the House caucus goes on this. Since it is out of our hands, why do we spin our wheels on this?

[BlooInBloo]

60. I wish Democrats had a GOTV organization as well-organized as the repubs...

OMFG!!! I'm a republican now!!!!

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

What a batshit stupid inference for me to make. If I had any pride or even the smallest amount of interest in the truth, I would run crying like a paranoid lying wuss and hide in my bed until no one remembered who I was.

Alas, I have no pride, much less any interest in the truth.

[Canuckistanian]

61. Well, how about TPMmuckraker, then. Are they "crap"?

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001984.php

So House Speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi has thrown her weight behind Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) to be the next House Majority Leader.

Few outside of Murtha's district -- or the corridors of Washington, D.C. -- knew much of Murtha until his outspoken opposition to the Iraq War earlier this year made him a cause celebre among liberals. What else has he been up to this year? In an excellent but little-noticed piece last month, the New York Times http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20910FF3F540C718CDDA90994DE404482">brought us up to speed:

In the last year, Democratic and Republican floor watchers say, Mr. Murtha has helped Republicans round up enough Democratic votes to narrowly block a host of Democratic proposals: to investigate federal contracting fraud in Iraq, to reform lobbying laws, to increase financing for flood control, to add $150 million for veterans' health care and job training, and to exempt middle-class families from the alternative minimum tax.

As Murtha put it, "deal making is what Congress is all about." Yessir -- blocking fraud investigations, stonewalling lobbying reform. That's what Congress is all about, isn't it?

[w4rma]

62. Hmm, I think CREW, TPMmuckraker.com and the NYT may be right on this.

I need to do more research, on the specific bills, however.

[tex-wyo-dem]

64. It's very curious that if the allegations set forth by CREW are correct...

that the RW attack dogs haven't been hammering on this over that last year ad nauseum. Murtha has been a serious thorn in the sides of the administration and the pro-war Rethugs, so to think that they would not take full advantage of this information to smear Murtha seems very odd...definitely does not fit their modus operandi. The only thing I've heard the AM hate radio blowhards mention is the ABSCAM incident.

On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he has been involved in some questionable actions and deal-making in the past 30 years, some of which might be very unsavory to DUers. But find me any congress-critter that has spent more that a few years in Washington that does not have some dirt on their hands or skeletons in their closet and you get a gold star :)

In any case, we need to be very vigilant of corruption within our own ranks and make sure the Dems don't fall into the same slime hole that defines the Repugs culture in congress.

[cali]

67. Your post is so reactionary and demonstrates

so much emotion, partisanship and zealotry, it's sad. Full of flame-bait and falsehood, it could, with very few changes be posted in freeperville. Sad.

[IronLionZion]

68. The best thing about that list is how many crooks were defeated

Burns and Santorum were defeated. Frist retired.

Also Weldon, Harris, Jefferson(D), Pombo, Sherwood...anyone else?

If they didn't have a few Dems it would be called blatantly partisan.

[populistdriven]

70. CREW has info on Murtha and is NOT releasing it - they are warning us - they are 100% behind Dems

The House has dozens of other qualified candidates.

This is not a swiftboat - it is a cautionary move to Protect Democrats!

[dailykoff]

71. Right. Pure coincidence that Murtha is threatening their gravy train.

Isn't it nice how this "conservative coalition" is taking so much trouble to warn Dems about corruption charges.

:rofl: