Kos: Lieberman is owned by Republicans now, so he may as well switch

[BurtWorm]

http://feeds.dailykos.com/~r/dailykos/index/~3/49078102/574


This would make me upset if it surprised me any. But I expected it.

Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut said yesterday that he will caucus with Senate Democrats in the new Congress, but he would not rule out switching to the Republican caucus if he starts to feel uncomfortable among Democrats.

Here's the bottom line for Joe -- if he leaves the Democratic Party, he'll give the GOP a short-lived 50-50 majority. But in 2008, the Senate map is ALL Democratic pickups. And Lieberman can then enjoy life in a big GOP minority.

So I fully expect him to jump to the dark side. It's what his voters want, it's what his financiers want, it's what his strategists want. You get elected with Republican voters, money and advice, you sort of end up indebted to the other side.

Or, he thinks he's being funny and clever by taunting the Democratic caucus.

Either way, his career is over in two years. With a big Democratic majority, he'll no longer have the leverage to hold Democrats hostage, and the minority Republicans will have no use for him.

So he should enjoy these next two years as much as he can. Because by helping deliver the big Democratic majority in 2008, we'll finish the job we started this year.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[LiberalEsto]

1. I think he's feeling drunk with power

and using his situation as leverage to get everything he can from both parties. Perhaps this is his way of compensating for having the vice-presidency stolen from him in the 2002 selection.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Why would he switch to the minority party?

Joementum wants POWER for power's sake, and would lose it if he switched.

[Vinca]

3. If he switched they wouldn't be the minority party anymore.

That's why we need to hold our noses and make nice. Didn't Joe say he promised his momma he wouldn't leave the Democratic Party?

[tsuki]

8. If Joe switches, he loses his political clout. He becomes just

one of the Republicans. This way, he has everyone coming to him hat in hand for his one vote. He'd be an idiot to switch.

[KharmaTrain]

6. This Makes No Sense...

Generally I agree with all Kos says, but I think his hatred of Joementum is clouding his political 20/20 here.

There's nothing in the Repugnican agenda that helps Liebermann. The war? The story in the next Senate will be the number of Senators...especially those in endangered districts that will peal off and vote against any expansion of this sorrid affair. And there will be others who will jump across the aisle on medicare and other issues that will make more difficult for the Repugnicans to muster the votes like they did in the past.

Right now, the House & Senate Repugnican leaderships are in tatters. McConnell is expected to be their leader, but whose gonna be #2? With Sanctorum gone, Allen gone, Frist gone and a lot of Repugnicans who were never crazy with Mitch The Morbid in the past, we could see some fireworks on that side before the new session begins. Methinks a certain Helmethair is thinking comeback. Get ready to rumble! And Joe's gonna walk into this cat fight?

The other day someone posted that Joe would get the Chairmanship of his beloved Homeland Security committee if he stayed with the Democrats...there's no guarantee he's gonna get that role with the GOOP or what type of seniority they could offer him.

Methinks Joe will play wheeler-dealer...but he always has. But his deals work better with Democrats in control as once he "jumps the shark" here, he will also loose the vaunted support of some of the key people who really worked to help him win last week...the unions in specific. He's a weathervane that will only hope that votes become deadlocked so he can play one side against the other. Crossing over altogether makes little sense.

As posted above, why would he be so shortsighted to force a deadlocked house that would give the Democrats a major campaign issue in '08 similar to what the Repugnicans used in '02 against Democrats. If anything, Liebermann's a snake and an ass, but he's not an elephant.

[leveymg]

10. Q: If the Senate were a 50/50 split, would Dems still have subpoena power?

And the ability to convene meaningful hearings? I think the answer would have to be yes - or else, neither side would have that power.

What happens if there's no Vice President to come in as a tie-breaker? What if Cheney were indicted and had to step down, and the Dems hung together and insisted that the replacement be either an acceptable, bi-partisan compromise, or else no VP?

Isn't that the trillion dollar question?

[geek tragedy]

48. 50/50 means no subpoena power in the Senate

and Republicans chairing every Senate committee and subcommittee.

[MethuenProgressive]

4. Kick him to the curb. Let him become a first term Repug.

Like they'll give him any power...

[cali]

7. Of course they'd give him a chairmanship

but 'kos totally ignores the fact that if he can see the writing on the wall for 2008 (and what conscious person can't?) so can Joe. Joe's not about to join what is almost certain to be a brief lived majority. The repubs have 22 Senate seats up in 2008, we have 11.

[trumad]

5. This is a play by Kos and others to force Joe to show his hand.

[xultar]

12. Which is STOOPID. Who is Kos to force anyone's hand? He's a blogger

THAT IS IT. I'd be furious if he'd step infront and fuck up shit.

He's not Dean.
He's not Reid.
He's not Boxer.
He's not Durbin.
He's not Fiengold.
He's not Pelosi.

He hasn't been elected to anything.

[trumad]

14. I also said and others...

guess what---I haven't been elected to anything and I agree with Kos and others as well.

Fuck Lieberman.

[xultar]

15. And you're gonna force Joementum's hand?

[trumad]

17. NO--- but son't you think it should be forced or are you OK with blackmail

Like I said, fuck Joe Lieberman.

[xultar]

18. I don't think we are being blackmailed. No, I don't think his hand should

be forced. Because when you force someone it never goes your way in the end. Lamont lost.

Joe though conservative is a Democrat. Like it or not. You force him to choose and WE LOSE. Wise up.

[trumad]

20. Joe though is threatening to caucus with repubs

or did you not catch that?

[xultar]

22. Hey. We totally dissed the guy. He's markin his territory. I can't blame him.

[trumad]

28. Are you fucking serious?

Dissed him in what way? Because he's a war hawk with his nose planted firmly in W's butt cheek?

Because he suggest woman take a short ride to get to another hospital to get contraceptives if raped because the first hospital didn't one to give them for er "principled reasons"

Or maybe because opposed a filibuster with the Alito nomination.

Is that how we dissed poor Joey?

Apparently, these incidents are just fine with you and you think that old Joey should get a pass and bne allowed to blackmail the Dems?

Like I said above---are you fucking serious?

[xultar]

33. Name one Democrat in the denate you agee with 100%

[trumad]

37. Joes not a Democrat now is he?

Joes a war loving hawk who sucks on W's dick 24x7... now isn't he?

[xultar]

41. Ahhh. Neither is Bernie but we all love him don't we?

[trumad]

44. Oh so Bernie is appearing on Hannity's show non-stop?

Oh so Bernie's advocating that we stay in Iraq?

Oh so Bernies been sucking on W's tit the last 4 years?

give it up man... defending a scum bag like Joe has gotta be hard work.

[xultar]

47. But he's not a Dem. He could switch parties @ any moment too.

Wes Clark has been on Hannity and Colmes a alot too.

Dean has been on O'Liely.

I just think if we are gonna be haters we need to be less hypocritical about it. That's it.

We should also hate the Rethugs that ran as Dems too.

[madfloridian]

31. I never thought I would see such a statement at DU.

Joe ran with the support of Republicans, he is telling us to play nice or he'll leave, and you are defending him. You say we dissed him??????

No, the opposite.

[xultar]

34. DU is extremely hypocritical. You'll hate Joe who has at least been

a Dem but you want Rethugs to vote for Dems so we can treat them like shit.

I don't know how this type of stance can hold.

How can we possibly win @ anything if we hate everyone who we don't agree with 100%

[Pithy Cherub]

38. Why are you Traitor Joe's hostage?

Joementum needs his traitorous lying ass kicked and kos is right, the time is now. Cognitive dissonance and Stockholm Syndrome abound when everyone is terrified to face the bully and call him on it. I don't roll like that. the majority is not ast stake becuase that lying gasbag piece of shit unchivalrous traitor asshat Lieberman is going to have to take his medicine. Reid is forcing Lieberchile the corporate whore to swallow a bitter poison pill by forcing him to chose a chairmanship or further irrelevancy. Joementum Lieberman can have a crass temper tantrum all he wants for the next few weeks because then he Joementum the TRAITOR, republican owned cheap whore will be a chairman and he'll be forced to raise money for Democrats and shut the fuck up because he won't want to give that little remnant of his power up. He's going nowhere, but he is going to have a public forum to be an embarrassment and forgetting all of his stupid public utterances are future campain commercials.

Defending Lieberman's cesspool is not something i though you would willing choose. Once Lieberpoo is on you it doesn't come off...

[xultar]

42. Come on. If you hate Joe there are so many more you must hate.

List them all so I can see.

[Pithy Cherub]

45. Wait and see. I despise Joementum.... those who defend that

piece of shit, get what's coming to them...

[xultar]

46. Buhwawawawa! I love it!

[Richard Steele]

40. We dissed HIM? I think you've got that backwards, there.

[madfloridian]

26. Yes, we are.

Joe lost the primary, and he is saying be nice to me or he'll screw us.

[Onlooker]

9. That KOS story is stupid

Lieberman is not and has never been the most conservative Democrat in the Senate. The animosity towards Lieberman makes me wonder if it stems from anti-semitism or just a desire to see the Democrats weakened. Check out where Lieberman ranks here:

http://electoral-vote.com/evp2006/Info/senator-ratings.html

And if we want to go after a Democrat, then it's people like Ben Nelson, Kent Conrad, and Mary Landrieu. But, I for one am concerned about civil rights and want to keep the Democratic majority, rather than go for the sanctimonious attitude of some of the progressives. That said, I would hope we can marginalize the most conservative Democrats without causing them to switch parties.

[bigscott]

11. does anyone have

a list of Senators up for re-election in 2008?

[leveymg]

13. The concern with Joe isn't domestic policy - it's foreign policy,

Specifically, his ardent stand in favor of the Administration's Iraq policies and the worry that many of us have that he's pushing the U.S. towards attacking Iran, which would result in plunging the U.S. into an even more catastrophic Mid-East war.

Those are some very weighty concerns about Lieberman. It has nothing to do with anti-semitism or anyone's desire to weaken the Democrats. It's about the question of war or peace.

[Onlooker]

16. I agree, but ...

... something like 3/4ths of the Senate approved the Iraq War bill, so Lieberman's not the only one. I want him as a Democrat. As LBJ said of J.Edgar Hoover, "I'd rather have him inside pissing out, then outside pissing in."

[BurtWorm]

21. Why would people who find Lieberman's easy manipulability by Republicans despicable

be motivated by anti-Semitism? Is it anti-Semitic to find Zell Miller despicable or Ben Nelson cowardly? :eyes:

[Junkdrawer]

23. Prediction: If Dems try to force an exit from Iraq, Lieberman will bolt...

There is no air between Lieberman and Bush on Iraq. None.

[madfloridian]

24. Maybe you forgot one teeny tiny detail.

Lieberman lost his Democratic Party primary. He decided he was more important than the Democrats in his state, and he let the Republicans vote him in.

Yet you are saying in effect that we are not being fair to poor Joe.

Let him go.

[jonnyblitz]

25. it never ceases to amaze me how many will bend over

backwards to excuse such disgusting and selfish behavior. The asshole DID NOT honor the primary result!!! I am still seething here in CT and won't get over it for a long time to come. I also don't see how stating these feelings on a political discussion board is going to screw things up for Lieberman or the DEM majority in DC as so many who want us to STFU about this seem to imply.

[Onlooker]

27. Actually, I think you're being a bit naive

Politicians are an opportunistic lot. Lieberman knew he could win as an independent, so chose to run once the Republicans signalled they would back him. I really don't think any other politician would have acted differently. That said, I'm really not defending Lieberman, except in the sense that I want to try to hold onto a Democratic majority in the Senate becaue Justice Stevens in 86 and rumoured to be in poor health. Lieberman is not a great Democrat by any means, but neither are most of us. I think most of us are well to the left of the Democratic Party, and that's why we're already prepared to turn on them.

[BurtWorm]

29. Politicians who weren't so desperate to be at the center of power

might have acted differently. Loyal Democrats certainly would have acted differently.

I think most people would like to hold onto the majority for the reason you cited. The question is, at what price? Joe Lieberman as chair of the Homeland Security dept. is something that should be carefully considered. It's not like he's been so great as ranking minority member. It's precisely the areas of "security" and foreign affairs that his politics take a sharp right turn.

[madfloridian]

30. You are wrong on many counts.

Lieberman could not have won without the Republicans cheering him on.

Yes, many politicians would have acted differently.

I consider myself a good person AND a good Democrat...that is why I question Joe. You can't stand for things if you are undermined from within your own party...Joe undermined us.

Actually I am more to the right than most here.

[Onlooker]

32. I agree and disagree

I agree that Lieberman couldn't have won without Republican help. But, I also don't know what the Democratic Party stands for. Let's remember that the Democrats were largely Bush and Reagan enablers, and Gore, Kerry, and Bill Clinton to some degree sold out traditional Democratic values. The Party is changing, but we now have a chance to set it on a better course. We'll always have to put up with the Liebermans and others we don't like because our Party covers a pretty broad range of views. Joe did undermine the party, but by the measure of the Iraq war, opposition to filibustering Alito, etc., Joe is not the only one. The question is, Will Joe continue to show the same loyalty as other conservative Democrats if the Party moves a little to left.

[BurtWorm]

36. Why should Dems bend over backwards for Joe if he won't for Dems?

[Onlooker]

43. He already has

He ran as an independent and has pledged loyalty to the Democratic Party (though he wouldn't rule out becoming a Republican). He didn't have to do that. I think that's pretty decent of him, especially since he's obviously quite unpopular within the Party right now. Did he bend over 100%? No. But, he certainly has gone 90% of the way. After all, right now, he's calling himself a Democrat, not an independent. We need to bend over backwards because we need a Democratic majority. Just as the right-wing blossomed under a conservative government, I think the progressives have a chance to blossom under the Democrats.

[BurtWorm]

50. The Senate Dems, I'm sure, will bend over as far as Joe needs them to.

I would hope though that Connecticut Dems keep the pressure on their representative to stop thinking only about what's in it for him and remember who got him where he is in the first place. Especially the Dems who voted for him despite knowing there was a real Dem in the race.

[maxrandb]

35. Don't throw that "blanking" anti-semitism crap around

My problem with Joe is limited to the fact that he blows Sean Hannity on a weekly basis. No self-respecting "Democrat" would appear willingly on that prick's show.

If he's gonna go, he might as well go now. We screw around with Joe, and the next thing you know he's giving the Keynote Speech at the 2008 Republican Convention. Someone better force his hand and force it quick.

He needs to be given one chance to come out and say that "under no circumstances is he going to go against the will of the electorate and switch to Republican". If he doesn't, pre-empt the bastard and kick him out.

[Neecy]

19. huh

Didn't he say repeatedly during his "independent Democrat" campaign that he'd caucus with the Democrats? Did he ever tell the voters of Connecticut - specifically, the Democrats who voted for him - that he "might" caucus with the Republicans? Isn't anyone there calling him on this huge, whopping campaign lie?

If he does switch, I hope that Connecticut Dems surround his state offices and shut 'em down to protest this bait and switch bullshit.

[npincus]

39. Traitor

[bigtree]

49. Why are they wishing us out of a majority?

forget it. I think this is stupid politics.

[JamesJoyce]

51. Kos is a demagogue

Ignore his bait.

[BurtWorm]

52. Deep.

[Pithy Cherub]

53. James Joyce is a demagogue.

Ignore his bait. Hopefully, you haven't reached the full lieberflower of your potential...