MSNBC: Guiliani's first wife was his 2nd cousin

[Holly_Hobby]

Maybe I'm wrong, but itsn't marrying cousins a taboo?

[speedoo]

1. So. The RWers have already started.

This should be good.

:popcorn:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

49. Here, enjoy the popcorn

Rudy's SNL skit...

[speedoo]

64. Ewwww.

The RWers will have a field day with that.

I love it when rethugs eat their young.

[smirkymonkey]

109. Strange, I thought the right wingers were into that kind of thing.

Oh wait, no. There into first cousins and siblings. Never mind.

[bugbones]

2. Second Cousins

Second cousins are definitely taboo, but I don't think it's illegal. Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt were related like that. Maybe it's not such a taboo in NY state.

[skooooo]

9. Do you even know your 2nd cousins?

My guess is "no."

[wicket]

15. Besides, Eleanor & FDR weren't even second cousins

They were fifth cousins once removed.

[bugbones]

40. I said they were related "like" that...

I didn't have the info handy about the 5th cousins thing, but no one would question it at all if there wasn't some element of taboo to it. I also noted it wasn't illegal.

To answer another poster's question, yes, I know my second cousins and I even know my third cousins. My family is fairly small on one side. I wouldn't knowingly get in a relationship with them.

[wicket]

67. No problem

:hi:

[bugbones]

98. No problem back

Except I didn't have a problem. My tail is always wagging (referring to how one can tell if dogs are fighting or just playing roughly).

I just wanted to clarify...figured people were jumping on my low post-count too.

[wicket]

110. I was apologizing for misreading your post

:)

[pitohui]

132. "fifth" cousins once removed?

i'm more closely related to idi amin

[LittleClarkie]

139. Kissin' cousins

as my mamma used to say.

[acmavm]

32. Of course. They are the children of the aunts and uncles of

my mother and father. And as such, they are very familiar to me.

Why wouldn't people know their second cousins? They aren't DISTANT relations twice or three times removed. They are the kids of your parents aunts and uncles.

[nickinSTL]

53. I don't know any 2nd cousins...

of course, I haven't even met all of my 1st cousins :shrug:

[seabeyond]

78. so we are saying they are my cousins kids and my kids

i have a cousin in town that has kids. i have kids. it would be our kids getting together?

too close in the line

[noonwitch]

105. In other words, your parents first cousins are your second cousins?

I always get confused by all that and just refer to them all as cousins. Especially with my mom's family, where generational boundaries are loose, to put it mildly.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

120. No, they are in your generation

they are the kids of your father's/mother's cousins. I think the children of your mother's aunt ... let me think now... are once removed. Anytime the generation is not the same there is a once-removed in it. Second cousins share great grandparents. Third cousins share great-great grandparents...and of course cousins share grandparents. I'm fourth cousin, with quite a few removed, to Abraham Lincoln. Never knew any of them on that branch. But I sure put it in my family tree! Looks real impressive. (Of course I had to branch out to the SIDE about five generations...makes the tree look a bit lopsided. But hey, you take 'em when you can get 'em, right?)

[acmavm]

126. My Dad's cousin Jack is my second cousin. My mom's cousin

Janie is my second cousin.

Here: this is supposed to help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_cousin#Determining_cousin_type

[muriel_volestrangler]

144. No, those are your first cousins, once removed

Jack or Janie's children are your second cousins. Going by the method given (at the time of writing) by Wikipedia, in your example of you and Jack, the common ancestors are the grandparents your dad and Jack have in common. So, considering you and Jack, the closest descendant to them is Jack - 2 generations away. So that's 'first cousin ...', but, since you are one generation further down, in full it is 'first cousin once removed'.

[acmavm]

148. Okay, by that same token I still know my second cousins well.

Jack has eight daughters (weird, isn't it?) and Janie has a boy and a girl. Janie's kids are younger than me, Well, so are Jack's for that matter. Whatever.

The original point is I know all my second cousins (this bunch are just a few). So not knowing them to me seems rather odd considering they are so closely related and hard to avoid.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

152. Jack is your first cousin once removed

but Jack's children are your second cousins. You have to be the same generation to be seconds. Jack, being your father's cousin (hence his generation) can't be your second cousin.

It is very confusing.

[Connie_Corleone]

38. I know some of mine. But they live in the same city.

Most of the others live in other parts of the country and I wouldn't know them from anyone else.

[reichstag911]

54. Absolutely.

Unless I'm mistaken, 2nd cousins are just the children of 1st cousins, or the 1st cousins of parents.

[phylny]

73. Very complicated.

My cousin's children and I are "first cousins, once removed." My children and my cousin's children are "second cousins."

Here's a nice little chart to look up all this stuff that's unimportant ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin#Determining_cousin_type

[reichstag911]

92. Yay!!! I finally get it!

Useful chart:

[Gormy Cuss]

107. Easy shorthand to remember numbering scheme.

First cousins have at least one common grandparent.
Second cousins have at least one common greatgrandparent.
Third cousins have at least one common great-greatgrandparent.

Removals describe people who have a common ancestor but not of the same generation.
So, your first cousin's child is your first cousin once removed because the child has a greatgrandparent who is your grandparent.

[wholetruth00]

68. I know ALL my second cousins.. They would be my cousins' children

We have a pretty close family and we all know each other down to cousins' grandchildren.

[malaise]

70. So do I

Second cousins are pretty close relatives.

[seabeyond]

80. i think.... too. just put it together n/t

[nickinSTL]

103. no, your cousin's children are your

1st cousins once removed...they would be your children's 2nd cousins.

[seabeyond]

79. i just did it in my head. i know only one cousin who has kids.

they are family. no no in marrying family. hm...

[reichstag911]

94. That's what I thought, too,...

...but look at the Wikipedia entry on "Cousin," and check out the chart in post elsewhere in this thread.

[Sequoia]

101. I do. Children of the children of your mom's sister, etc.

Now, what about 3rd Cousin once removed? Brian hurts.

[mtnester]

133. Yeah, I do...my grandpa's brother remarried in his later years, a..ahem..

MUCH younger woman. I graduated high school with their son...my second cousin.

Some minor confusion during that time..."is he your brother?" No. My brother is a year younger than me.

Would I ever have married my grandpa's brother's son (son fo great uncle)? Nope.

[Xithras]

141. I wouldn't know my second cousins if I passed them in the hall.

My family is dispersed all across the country. Heck, I've only met ONE of my great uncles one time, and that was 20 years ago.

[Cha]

12. Hey yeah, maybe the repugs could

bring up the Roosevelts as precedents? :)

Fucking ghouliani.

[wicket]

13. They were fifth cousins once removed

According to Wikipedia:

Eleanor was descended from the Johannes branch while her future husband, Franklin was descended from the Jacobus branch. They were fifth cousins once removed.

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. No, they were fifth cousins once removed

http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g32.htm

[yellowcanine]

21. Where did you get the idea that 2nd cousin marriages are "taboo"?

As someone pointed out - a lot of people don't even know their second cousins.

[QMPMom]

44. I believe that in the Catholic church

second cousin marriages are forbidden. It's a medical thing.

[yellowcanine]

59. At one time yes. Now Catholics follow local civil law. It's not a "medical thing."

Except in insular genetic communities such as the Amish and some strict Orthodox Jews, an occasional second cousin marriage poses no significantly greater genetic risk than any other marriage.

[QMPMom]

90. DH and I had to verify that we were not related closer than a

certain level of cousin when we married in the Catholic church. We weren't related *at all* but we still had to declare that we weren't. If we had been, the church would not have allowed the marriage.

[yellowcanine]

93. I believe the canon was revised in 1983 to have the Church follow local civil

law regarding "prohibited degree of consanguity". It may be that implementation of this policy at the local parish level varies, though, depending on the competence and degree of "old fartness" of the local clergy.

[QMPMom]

96. We were married in 1985.

[yellowcanine]

99. Implementation of new canon law does not always take place overnight.

Though it didn't take the nuns long to toss off those old habits, did it?

[Kber]

86. It came up when he petitioned for his first marriage to be annuled

making his children illegitimate bastards in the eyes of the church, btw.

[QMPMom]

89. The Catholic church is quite clear that an annulment

does *not* make the children of the union illegitimate.

[Kber]

124. I stand corrected.

[Holly_Hobby]

112. Honest question

If there's nothing to it, then why would MSNBC make a point of mentioning it? It came up on one of their "pop ups" in the bottom left corner (TV screen)?

[MidwestTransplant]

28. Probably more common amongst blue bloods. Guilanni obviously isn't though!

[moc]

45. No, I believe 2nd cousins is illegal; it's 3rd cousins that is not.

[nickinSTL]

52. no, it's first cousins.

second cousins are far enough removed that although some might think it's...weird or gross, there are no laws against it, and the taboos aren't as strong.

[fudge stripe cookays]

136. Oh, they are not.

FIRST cousins yes, second cousins no.

[KingFlorez]

3. That's disgusting

[skooooo]

6. 2nd cousins aren't even considered related!

Hello?

[KingFlorez]

24. It's just my personal opinion that it's not right

[skooooo]

55. That's fine...

The idea doesn't appeal to me either, but scientifically there are no risks, and it's legal.

[hfojvt]

76. Actually they are

In the Catholic world, their rule is that you have to be MORE distantly related than a 2nd cousin to marry.

In colonial America it was far more common for 1st cousins to marry. I almost think they encouraged it in wealthier families - to keep the various family fortunes in the family. AFAIK it is still legal in over a dozen states to marry a 1st cousin.

My guess is that if you traced everyone's ancestry back 10 generations that there would be a set of first cousins in that tree. It was kinda inevitable, without automobiles it was hard to travel more than 20 miles in a day and after a couple hundred years of a family living in an area, just about everyone in that village or valley would be a relative.

For example, Melchior Honer of Spaichingen, born in 1616. After 7 generations he had 2407 descendants that I know of. Well, the population of Spaichingen was only about 5000 in 1900.

[Hugin]

4. Not if they were 'Cross Cousins'...

Something I heard once.

[Hugin]

20. Link to 'Cross Cousin'... (If you're interested)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_cousin

Now, whether it's 'taboo' or not I have no idea. That issue would depend on
your culture.

[radfringe]

30. so it's legal but

if they are divorced are they still cousins? :evilgrin:

why am I hearing dueling banjos softly playing in the background?

[Hugin]

39. Why... I feel like playing the banjo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdzThgveHwQ

[yellowcanine]

36. A "cross cousin" is a first cousin of a maternal uncle or paternal aunt.

Genetically it is still potentially a problem as with all first cousin marriages. Case in point - hemophilia in some of the male descendents of Queen Victoria was a direct result of first cousin marriages.

[tk2kewl]

5. Ha. I guess he's got the West Verginia vote locked up.

:hide:

[Tanuki]

35. As one who grew up in West Virginia (not "Verginia"),

I am curious why you think this sort of disparaging sterotype is less offensive or hateful than that directed toward any other group of citizens.

[MountainLaurel]

50. Amen

:applause:

[suziedemocrat]

135. Yeah - West Virginia is beautiful.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

154. The stereotype is easy pickings.........

and some folks just can't help show their ignorance.

[CountAllVotes]

7. ask * #1

he should know.

[Phillycat]

8. WHAT?

Wow, that woke me up.

[yellowcanine]

10. 2nd cousin is ok. In colonial days, 60% of marriages were between 2nd cousins.

There can be a problem in closed communities such as the Amish over time with more genetic diseases but in the larger population it is unlikely to cause any problems at all.

[originalpckelly]

11. We want this guy to lose in the primary, because he'll certainly win...

if in the general election. He shares among the highest approval of any potential candidate. He's even more popular than John McCain.

[billbuckhead]

22. But Guiliani is pro gun control, how can he be such a threat?

:sarcasm: Dems need to work on a "solid north spreading into the midwest" while they have their foot on moderate northeast republican's necks.

Bloomberg is even more dangerous. More dangerous than Nadir ever thought of being. If Bloomberg runs as an independent against a blue dog Dem, Republicans will easily win POTUS

[originalpckelly]

27. Moderation is the key in the 21st Century...

people have seen what radicals did to America in Iraq. (I mean right wingers, had they listened to the people on our side, there would be no war.)

They want moderation, that's why we won these election. We totally slayed the Republican vote amongst moderates/independents. Rudy does the same thing, on top of the fact people feel safe with him because of his excellent stewardship of NY during 9/11. (If the Republicans won't take him for a candidate, maybe we should try to steal him? :-) )

[KingFlorez]

29. He can't win

He's not going to get the radical conservative vote. If he wins the GOP primary, you can bet that Tom Tancredo or someone else to launch an independent bid for the presidency, effectively screwing up Guiliani's chances of winning.

[Zynx]

127. Anti-gun, pro-choice, pro-gay. No chance in Republican primaries.

[noamnety]

14. You're wrong, sorry

In most of the world throughout most of history, it's been the norm. 80% of all marriages historically have been between first cousins, and 20 percent of marriages worldwide currently are between first cousins.

The US is the only western country with first cousin marriage restrictions, and 26 of our states allow it. No European country has a problem with it, nor does Canada or Mexico.

I don't think there's a taboo against 2nd cousin marriages anywhere.

http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=facts

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. I'm sure that is a very unbiased source

[noamnety]

25. Facts aren't biased. (nt)

[skooooo]

60. of course it's true

[nickinSTL]

104. From About.com - Cousin Marriage Laws in the United States

Note: All states allow the marriage of second cousins.

Many states allow 1st cousin marriages.

http://marriage.about.com/cs/marriagelicenses/a/cousin.htm

[Zero Division]

149. Yep, ask any anthropologist. It's another ignorant taboo.

While it does pose risks to children descended from such coupling, this risk is greatly exaggerated and misunderstood in American society.

There are many enlightening sources of information on this topic in the fields of anthropology/sociology, such as this book, "Forbidden Relatives: The American Myth of Cousin Marriage" (http://www.press.uillinois.edu/f96/ottenhei.html).

[Clark2008]

16. Ha!!

See - it's not Southerners who do this silly crap.

:7

[bluestateguy]

17. SO. WHAT.

I support people's free right to marry, inclduing 2nd cousins.

[Holly_Hobby]

116. Ok, so do I then....but

why did MSNBC make a point of mentioning it if there's nothing to it? I personally would not consider a relationship with any cousin at all, but that's just me.

[Redstone]

18. So what? That's HIS business, not ours.

Redstone

[Marie26]

26. Who cares? nt

[soleft]

31. Does that explain Andrew?

[txindy]

37. Unfortunately, no. Different wife.

Nothing explains him.

[NYCGirl]

33. Not a taboo, but it's sort of like going to your prom with your sister. Gives

sort of a loser-like impression.

[noamnety]

46. xenophobic?

You realize you just insulted a whole lot of cultures, right?

[NYCGirl]

58. No, just like High School in the USA. NT

[wishlist]

34. Problem for me is that he used the cousinship as grounds for annulment

According to several articles I have read including one in Vanity Fair, he apparently used the cousin relationship as grounds for the marriage to be annulled stating that he did not know at time of marriage that they were related. It just seems unlikely to me that they would not know about being related, when I would think that most New York Italian American families are rather close knit and aware of who is related to who.

[txindy]

42. Rudy wanted out and that's the way his inner weasel led him.

That's the hitch in it for me, too. He didn't know? Oh, please.

[yellowcanine]

47. As the Church Lady would say, "How conveeeenient!"

[noamnety]

48. I have a problem with that

and with the judge who granted an annulment on that basis. That should have been thrown out.

[Sweet Freedom]

56. So, when they sent out the invitations

a big red flag didn't get raised that they both invited the same family members!

[NashVegas]

81. That, Too, Is Not Without Historical Precedent

Even up until one or two generations ago, marrying a second cousin was no big deal.

And the consanguinuity (sp?) argument for annulment/divorce has been around for as long as people have been marrying their cousins.

[Glorfindel]

41. Weird...my 2nd cousins are all MUCH older or MUCH younger

than I am...my mother & father's first cousins, and my first cousins' children. The ones I know best are like nieces & nephews to me, and the older ones are more like uncles & aunts. I can't imagine anyone getting romatically involved with such close kin.

[minerva50]

72. Those are both your first cousins, once removed.

They are first cousins, removed by a generation. Your second cousins are the children of your parents first cousins.

[Glorfindel]

123. Thanks! That makes much more sense...

at least they're closer to my age, but I still wouldn't get involved romantically with any of them. :hi:

[annarbor]

130. My second cousins and I....

were raised like brothers and sisters. We are similar in appearance too. I quite frankly find the idea of marrying my second cousin, well, just downright creepy....
Just my two cents....

Ann Arbor

[hedgehog]

43. He would have had to get a dispensation to marry in the Catholic Church.

Oddly enough, one reason for this rule appears to have been to encourage intermarriage between families so as to break down tribal loyalties and stop blood feuds. (I never knew that!) Some claim the rule came about to discourage any marriage (If you were related to everyone in your isolated village, you couldn't get married.) I've always wondered if it also protected young children from being married off to relatives to keep family wealth intact. (ie- marrying a young girl to her uncle)

[wishlist]

61. Second cousin marriages were indeed prohibited by Catholic Church then

I believe he was married to his cousin in 1968, so the marriage would have been prohibited by the church then unless special dispensation was made. The church restriction on second cousin marriages was lifted in 1983. Apparently he was granted an annulment by the church on the grounds that they were second cousins despite being married for 14 years!

[hedgehog]

69. That sounds like a good excuse to annul the marriage because

we still don't annul marriages on the grounds that one of the parties is a horn dog!

[poofer]

51. Cousins not allowed

cousins are not allowed to marry in Minnesota but it doesn't state how far down. I'm sure even a 3rd cousin can't marry here.

[skooooo]

57. There is no place in the US where it is illegal for 2nd cousins to marry.

I'd bet the farm on that.

[Xithras]

142. You are correct. First cousins are even legal in half the country.

There is really no medical or religious reason for the taboo, it's more of a "keeping peace in the family" thing. Could you imagine family Christmas gatherings if two cousins married and then divorced? Not fun.

[muriel_volestrangler]

146. It's possible there might be medical reasons for the taboo

It is estimated that at least 55% of British Pakistanis are married to first cousins and the tradition is also common among some other South Asian communities and in some Middle Eastern countries.

But there is a problem: marrying someone who is themselves a close family member carries a risk for children - a risk that lies within the code of life; within our genes.
...
British Pakistanis are 13 times more likely to have children with genetic disorders than the general population - they account for just over 3% of all births but have just under a third of all British children with such illnesses.

Indeed, Birmingham Primary Care Trust estimates that one in ten of all children born to first cousins in the city either dies in infancy or goes on to develop serious disability as a result of a recessive genetic disorder.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4442010.stm

[LeftishBrit]

151. Yes - this is very likely the reason for the taboo

First cousin marriages do result in an increased risk of genetic disorders in the offspring, due to the greater chance of a child being born with both of the recessive genes linked to a disorder. We all have several abnormal recessive genes, but usually they are balanced by normal genes. Children of first-cousin marriages are more likely to inherit the same abnormal recessive gene from both parents, and so to exhibit the disorder.

For first cousins, the risk is increased but not enormous. For closer relatives, it is much greater. Children of brother-sister or parent-child unions may have as high as a 50% chance of perinatal death or serious disorder; and this may explain why such unions are forbidden in almost all societies.

By the time you get to second cousins, there is only a very slightly increased risk for the offspring, and most societies will accept such marriages.

[noamnety]

77. Minnesota law very clearly refers only to first cousins

"The following marriages are prohibited:

... (3) a marriage between an uncle and a niece, between an aunt and a nephew, or between first cousins, whether the relationship is by the half or the whole blood"

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/517/03.html

[Lone_Star_Dem]

62. It was cost effective

This way they invited the same family members for both sides. The only confusion was on which side of the isle people were supposed to sit on.

[Hoosier Dem]

63. He's appealing to the Southern Republican base....

Since most Southern Republicans are inbreeding wackos, this might take their eyes of Rudy's stances on Guns and Gays.

[txindy]

87. It'll probably play better in South Bend than the South.

After all, Rudy did get an ecclesiastical annulment of that nearly 14 yr. long marriage.

[Hoosier Dem]

114. yeah, you gotta love that...

I've never understood how a 14 year marriage just "din't happen" in the eyes of the Church. Were there kids by this marriage? If so, wouldn't an annullment make them illegitimate in the eyes of the Church?? (seriously)

[txindy]

117. No, there were no children. He had two with his second wife.

I believe he married her immed. after his annulment. He has a stepdaughter now from his third marriage. He finally married her after tossing his wife and kids from the Gov's Mansion and installing his then-mistress/current wife, istead. What a guy. :eyes:

Anyway, no, the Church does not see the children as illegitimate in the case of an annulment.

From a diocesan Q&A:

"The laws of the Church state that children born of a supposedly valid union are legitimate children. Therefore, if the marriage is later shown to have been invalid, the status of the children remains unchanged: they are legitimate."

http://www.stcdio.org/annulment.htm

:shrug: It's a puzzlement.

[hedgehog]

134. It's complicated, but here goes:

What makes a marriage a sacrament is not the ceremony but the living out of a life that represents or imitates the undying love that God has for us. By definition then, if either party decides that the marriage is over, then a sacramental marriage never existed because there is no covenant.

Annulment is a way of recognizing that life is imperfect. I was told by someone who helps to prepare annulments that hose outside the process should never underestimate the pain that is involved. The only good thing about an annulment is that people are no longer forced to live with youthful mistakes.

[David__77]

65. I have friends who were married and FIRST counsins.

In California, that is legal, as it should be. It is a little strange seeming to me, since they grew up attending the same family functions, sharing the same grandparents on the one side, but it's OK with me.

[wishlist]

82. It was legal but his pretense of not knowing he married his cousin is lame

I have no problem with Rudy's marriage but with his ridiculous grounds for obtaining a church annulment after 14 years- that they were cousins but didn't know it.

[Mz Pip]

66. So what?

There is plenty to fault him for but this isn't one of those things. Second cousins have a pretty watered down genetic link anyway.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[txindy]

83. The fault lies in Rudy's lie.

He got an annulment based on the 'fact' that he did not know his cousin was his second cousin. They were childhood sweethearts and married from 1969 to 1982 - over thirteen years. And Rudy could not figure out in those 13 years, let alone the childhood preceding that, that she was his second cousin? Please. He wanted to marry Donna Hanover and that was his excuse.

[slackmaster]

71. Marrying second cousins is safe, and legal in most states

Including California.

My mom does genealogy. Second cousin and even first cousin marriages have been quite common in European and American history. Many people have spent their lives in small communities where there wasn't a lot of choice.

[AlCzervik]

74. wow, and so it begins.

[treestar]

75. Marrying a second cousin is allowed in all 50 states

Marrying a FIRST cousin is allowed in about a third of them. (Contrary to popular stereotype, West Virginia is not one of those, however, ;-))

[lectrobyte]

84. This sounds like a Jeff Foxworthy skit gone bad. Other than that,

who cares, it's not his current wife etc. etc.

[wishlist]

88. And we haven't even started in on wife #2, wife #3 and that mistress! n/t

[lectrobyte]

91. If you ever went to a family reunion to find a new wife, you might be

the mayor of New York.

Sorry, I could not stop myself.

[raccoon]

85. Not second cousins, anyway.

I don't think ANY state forbids the marriage of second cousins.

[CrazyForKucinich]

95. Props to Giulliani.

This country is way too damn conservative when it comes to relationships.

Let's bring about polyamorous relationships as well and gay marriage.

[Beelzebud]

97. Wow, I didn't realize DU had so many kissing cousins....

WTF...

[noamnety]

106. unless I missed a post

nobody has said here one way or another that they are married to a cousin.

What they've said is that it's ignorant to believe that marrying a second cousin is against the law or immoral in some way - or abnormal. I would add that it's bigoted and xenophobic as well. Cousin marriages (first or second cousins) are very common throughout North Africa, West Asia, Pakistan, India, Muslim cultures in general, and so forth.

If people want to harp on the immorality or hypocrisy of annulling a marriage after 14 years because of that, I'll be right in there with you. But just the marrying of a cousin, that's a ridiculous thing to fixate on.


Edit to add: I never thought much one way or another about cousin relationships til a few years ago, when - being the obstinate person that I am, I decided to play devil's advocate on another forum, just on a whim, when the subject came up. When I was fact-checking, I came across that forum I linked earlier, and became friends with some of the people there. I watched as some of them put themselves on the line on national tv to argue their case, and try to debunk some of the genetic myths and stereotypes that people cast upon them (it's a "southern" thing, the kids will be born with buck teeth and three eyeballs, and so forth).

Now I consider it part of my duty to advocate for them as I would any other minority group. The assumption that those of us advocating for them must be in a cousin relationship is just foolish. I consider myself an advocate for equal marriage rights for gays, even though I'm in a straight relationship. It's a solidarity thing.

[berni_mccoy]

100. Why Does the Right Hate Itself?

:popcorn: :rofl:

[Zomby Woof]

102. *plucks banjo*

[nini]

111. LOL

nenennnereeerr..nneeennner. :D

[LeftishBrit]

108. 2nd cousin marriages are legal almost everywhere

First cousin marriages are legal in some, perhaps most, places; illegal in others. Marriages between closer relatives than first cousins are taboo almost everywhere.

[dysfunctional press]

113. It'll probably help him in the south...

kind of balances out that whole New--York--City thing.

[Hubert Flottz]

115. Most freepers won't vote for a republican that thinks he too good

for his sister!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

118. Second cousins only share

great-grandparents. I don't think it is even illegal for first cousins to marry. (though I'd say ill-advised!)

Did they have kids?

[trackfan]

119. In many states it is legal to marry your 1st cousin (yuk):

http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states

[AnnInLa]

121. In Louisiana, 2nd cousin is taboo....1st cousin is preferred

Ark and Mississippi too. And Alabama.

[noamnety]

125. Please stop with the ignorant stereotypes

In three of the four states you just mentioned, marrying a first cousin isn't legal.

Stereotyping like that is offensive to Southerners and to the MANY people who are married to cousins.

I'm not a southerner. I'm married to someone who (as far as I know!) isn't related to me at all. I don't have a personal stake in this, but it's offensive in the same way that race baiting or gay bashing is offensive. Take it somewhere besides DU, please.

[AnnInLa]

153. There is a big kernel of truth to the joke about

Southerners inbreeding. If you could see where I live, you would know what I am talking about. In isolated areas, such as many Cajun communities, everyone is related to each other, because of marrying cousins. I have been to many conferences (used to be a social worker), where I know the same is true in other isolated, rural communities of the South, and in the Appalachians. Don't lecture me about stereotyping....I have lived here in the South all of my life.

[Jed Dilligan]

122. Cross-cousin marriage is the global mode,

we in America are lucky not to be forced to marry our cousins, although in some immigrant families the pressure is still pretty strong.

[Orsino]

128. Doesn't matter.

He's a cross-dresser, so he won't be president. This is America, by God.

[Rockstone]

129. So Rudy was practically fucking his sister! (almost)

holy moley!

that's all I need to know.

[pitohui]

131. a 2nd cousin is practically no relation at all

real cousins -- first cousins -- marrying is apparently taboo or illegal in some states, but 2nd cousins?

anyway this is old old old news

[Buzz Clik]

137. Dear God. The DU has gone tabloid.

[texpatriot2004]

138. kick nm

[LittleClarkie]

140. Depends. Do the kids have webbed feet?

Or extra fingers?

[liberalpragmatist]

143. Whatever. There are several people in my family in 2nd-cousin marriages

My family's from India, where it's a pretty common practice. I have two uncles who are second cousins and among my grandmother's siblings there are a couple as well.

Moreover, my great-grandparents on one side were cousins; nobody around knows whether they were first or second cousins.

So while I have no desire to marry or couple with my cousins, first, second, or beyond that, it's not really something I find that shocking or disgusting.

[sce56]

145. Guiliani is a prick plain and simple He needs to go to jail with the rest of the 911 Decivers!

October 17, 2006,Will be remembered as the Enabling day of the 21st Century!
"The government will make use of these powers only insofar as they are essential for carrying out vitally necessary measures..."
~Adolf Hitler, March 23, 1933, before the German Parliament (Reichstag) as he urged them to pass his "Enabling Act"

Got Fascism Yet?


http://www.georgewalkerbush.net/bush-nazilinkconfirmed.htm



Fascism Accomplished!

[rug]

147. Fucking NYC for 8 years was worse.

[BurtWorm]

150. Not second cousins.

It's an ancient custom, especially among the upper classes.

What a bizarre non-story. I think a previous poster was right in thinking a winger planted this.