John Murtha vs Steny Hoyer - who would you vote for?

[kentuck]

Both are good men and good Democrats. Hoyer is more tied to the old established Party. Murtha, although in Congress for many years, has been willing to speak out on the war and has been somewhat of a rebel, although more conservative than most Democrats. Who would you vote for and why?

[in_cog_ni_to]

1. Murtha. He had the guts to speak out against the invasion

when no other Democrat would.

Murtha gets my vote.

As for his "corruption" issue...he's not been accused of any wrongdoing, he's been reelected 14 times and no one in Congress seemed to mind him being there. The "corruption" issue in nothing, IMCPO.

[DemPower]

30. Kucinich was the first to speak out about the invasion

see, this is my problem with Murtha.

Kucinich,Ron Paul, Neil Abercrombie and Walter "freedom fries" Jones introduced the Homeward Bound initiative to begin bringing our troops home beginning October 2006. This is bipartisan legislation that was pretty hard to disagree with and should have recieved press and support.

However,a few days later Murtha came out with his immediate redeployment idea and created bickering where Kucinich and Jones were trying to bring the parties together. And now Murtha gets credit as the only democrat who would speak out about the war?

[asjr]

2. For me it is a toss-up. I don't

know very much about either man. But Murtha started the ball rolling about Iraq. I am grateful for his speaking up. Nancy Pelosi evidently seems to feel she can get along with Murtha better than Hoyer. We do not need any divisive crack in our electoral win. We have waited too long for the white hats to enter the picture.

[Greyhound]

3. Unless something big comes to light that I am aware of, I pick Hoyer.

I am suspicious of Hoyer's connections to the party spoilers, but Murhta has an authoritarian streak (anti-choice, pro-$ over rights) that I am very uncomfortable with.

[terrya]

4. Murtha.

John Murtha isn't my cup of tea on social issues, but if we Democrats are going to focus on our failed war in Iraq and how we will be getting out as quickly as possible, Murtha is the man we need for Majority Leader.

[wicket]

5. Same here

:kick:

[flyingfysh]

6. Murtha

He made a stand against the war, and has spent considerable time helping others campaigning on an anti-war platform.

[atreides1]

7. Not sure

Murtha did speak up about the calamity in Iraq, and what happened 30 years ago shouldn't even be relevant anymore. But what was his stand on tough ethics and pork spending(earmarks)rules?

If he continues to resist actual revamping of ethical rules that have teeth and is against doing away with earmarks, then I would be inclined to lean towards Hoyer.

[EST]

8. I don't particularly like either one.

Murtha is very like a republican-at least the older style rep.

Hoyer is dlc. DLC is the republican wing of the democratic party. I wouldn't pick him for any position of power, so it's Murtha.

[AdvancedProgress]

9. Murtha

For his relation to the military/pentagon and insight into the current conflicts.

[jsamuel]

10. Murtha

While I am cautious of the corruption problem, I have yet to hear or see evidence that he did anything. A lot of talk, but hard to tell what was actually going on. I would be open to more discussion of the problem though.

That said, Hoyer has been a thorn in my side for a while, so I have no problems not voting for him.

[LibertyLover]

11. Hoyer

I'm from Maryland.

[Recursion]

12. Murtha lost me when he opposed ethics reform

If he can convince me he's onboard with NP's program of ethics reform, I'll back him. Otherwise I can't.

[KittyWampus]

13. Your opening post is bullshit about Hoyer "more tied to old established Party"

where DU'ers get this crap, I don't know.

It's like some people have a small box of preconcieved opinions and need to shove everything into one of those few, useless boxes.

Murtha is a Conservative. He's a DINO. The ONLY Thing DU'ers around here would ususally agree with him on is maybe Iraq.

[kentuck]

19. I agree with your comment on Murtha but..

Steny Hoyer is not tied to the old established Democratic Party? I didn't think that would be questioned? :)

[Chef]

14. Not sure

Hoyer's my congressman. Pretty much tied to the military which makes up a large body of his constituents, alon with govt. employees and some conservatives. Really gave me w crappy, blow me off answer when I asked him not to support the IWR while my senators both had to guts to resist. He is liberal on some issues but, slithers a bit too much. I would like another choice to look at.

On edit; Hoyer is more liberal overall, but there may have been some hard feelings in the fight for minority leader when Hoyer was defeated. I would love to know Pelosi's reasoning behind this.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

15. Murtha

He has shown he'a a man of courage, conviction, and compassion. He stood up and told the truth that no one else would, knowing he'd come under heavy personal and political attack.

It's very likely we'd not even be having this discussion if not for John Murtha.

[stepnw1f]

16. Murtha (nt)

[SutaUvaca]

17. Murtha

For speaking out against the war when no one else would and everyone else should've.

[TahitiNut]

18. Hoyer. Murtha's a paleo-conservative.

While Murtha's stance on the Iraq occupation is laudable, it reflects the stance of the professional military. When I say "professional military" I'm NOT talking about the Joint Chiefs or most senior Generals - they're political 'survivors' and close to the end of their active duty careers. I'm talking about career military. Command staff. People with something to lose.

Hoyer is far more attuned to the Democratic Party base.

[missingpeace]

20. Robert Scheer had a good column on this today

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/11/15/EDG6ELJ3MV1.DTL

[Cha]

22. Thanks, missingpeace..

hmmm?..

snippet>

.."By contrast, his opponent for the House leadership position, U.S. Rep. Steny Hoyer, D-Md., disagrees with 60 percent of the voters in continuing to support President Bush in this ever deepening disaster. As recently as Monday, Hoyer continued to hold an allegedly moderate position that is as divorced from reality as the disgraced former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld: "You can transfer authority to the Iraqis ... but we need to do so in a way, hopefully, that will not create greater carnage," he told MSNBC-TV."

[Chef]

24. Ok. Murtha

Thanks for the focus I needed. Indeed, Hoyer is indeed too slithery. If Pelosi wants Murtha, so be it.

[Nite Owl]

25. Thanks for the article

So the right is calling Murtha a lefty? That is so ridiculous and it shows how scared that they are of what the dems are going to do:



All of which is just rearranging the proverbial deckchairs on the Titanic; the U.S. presence is helping nobody in Iraq. Clarity of purpose in getting out of Iraq is all important, which is why the war's supporters are so desperate to smear forthright critics such as Murtha. Witness Dick Morris joining conservative commentator Sean Hannity in blasting Pelosi for backing Murtha: "He's a leftist, he's a cheerleader for MoveOn.org and she could have chosen a centrist," Morris said on Fox News. "Instead she chose the most left guy she could find."

Ridiculous. Murtha, a leftist? Maybe on Iraq, but his record on everything from abortion to gun control to Pentagon budgets makes him an old-school conservative Democrat in this country, as centrist as they come. Of course, pollster operative Morris knows this full well, because it was precisely why Murtha's call for withdrawal was such a political earthquake.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/11/15/EDG6ELJ3MV1.DTL




The thing I worry about with Murtha is that he is so conservative on just about every other issue.



Welcome to DU missingpeace!

[oc2002]

21. It is my understanding that HOyer is a K-street palls with special interests

Not the kind of guy you want in a leadership possition. Someone that is basicly bought and paid for is only going to make money out of that job.

I do not know, Murtha showed leadership in my opinion when the Dems resembled a washed up jelyfish, Murths stood up, politics be damned.

[WI_DEM]

23. Murtha--he's a good contrast with Pelosi and they get along

unlike she and Hoyer. We need a united leadership.

[LiviaOlivia]

26. Net Neutrality fans:

Hoyer opposes Net Neutrality. Murtha, on the other hand, backs it.

[Nite Owl]

27. I don't know

Murtha gets credit for standing up and speaking out on Iraq when the dems needed to and were too scared. That shows leadership.
He is quite the conservative otherwise and his backgroud with lobbyists is a bit shady which could come back and bite us in the ass latter on but Hoyer is too tied to the corporate wing of the party.

Given these two I would lean towards Murtha but a third choice would be better.

[AzDar]

28. Murtha. Hoyer is a bit too 'status-quo' for my tastes. n/t

[BlackVelvet04]

29. Hoyer......

the Democrats need to stay away from any hint of corruption. This thing with Murtha is not good for a party that has stated they are going to clean the house.

[kentuck]

31. I've always been impressed with the way Hoyer speaks out..

on the issues. I have followed him over time and he's pretty consistent. Murtha is good on the war.

[MODemocrat]

32. John Murtha would get my vote

He's been right out there with the troops, and has worked very hard to get them out of the quagmire.
I'm afraid Hoyer is too pro-war, pro-Bush to be effective.

[GymGeekAus]

33. Let Murtha explain his graft first.

Then let us make informed decisions. How about that idea, huh?