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boolean Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:29 PM
Original message
We have to remove people like Carville
I have NEVER seen a Repuglican criticize his own party after a VICTORY. They only jump ship when they have to save their own asses.

The people in the Democratic party that are openly hostile to it for not good reason other than their own conservative (Or as they say, "moderate") bias must GO. Rudy Giuliani is pro choice, pro gay, but did he criticize Bush BEFORE Iraq became a complete and utter failure? Is he even criticizing him NOW? That's an example of a GOP member that does not fit into the fundy nut neo-con mold, but still keeps his fucking MOUTH SHUT in front of the media for the good of the party.

Carville, Lieberman, etc...They're all a cancer on the Democrats. I don't care how much money they raise, I don't care how influential they are, I don't care how important it was to have them in order to achieve victory last week. The fact of the matter is, the Democrats were victorious. We should not be hearing this shit from people who call themselves Democrats. Christ. There's a difference between being in a "big tent" and being a Repuglican mole. I have no problem accepting more conservative Democrats in the party, but they gotta play ball. They can't go out into the Corpomedia and fuck everything up after we WON.

Jesus H. Christ on a crutch. It's frustrating as all hell.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Remove him from WHAT, exactly?
He's never had the balls to run for office -- at least no that I know of. He's a very highly paid consultant, who is now in the Clinton camp. Clinton needs to remove him. Will it happen? Don't hold your breath.

TC
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Carville is doing this for Bill and Hillary Clinton - as always.
He's hitman for the coverup wing of the Democratic party, and especially now that his WIFE is a WAR CRIMINAL.

Democrats, the Truth Still Matters!
By Robert Parry
(First Posted May 11, 2006)

Editor's Note: With the Democratic victories in the House and Senate, there is finally the opportunity to demand answers from the Bush administration about important questions, ranging from Dick Cheney's secret energy policies to George W. Bush's Iraq War deceptions. But the Democrats are sure to be tempted to put the goal of "bipartisanship" ahead of the imperative for truth.

Democrats, being Democrats, always want to put governance, such as enacting legislation and building coalitions, ahead of oversight, which often involves confrontation and hard feelings. Democrats have a difficult time understanding why facts about past events matter when there are problems in the present and challenges in the future.

Given that proclivity, we are re-posting a story from last May that examined why President Bill Clinton and the last Democratic congressional majority (in 1993-94) shied away from a fight over key historical scandals from the Reagan-Bush-I years -- and the high price the Democrats paid for that decision:

My book, Secrecy & Privilege, opens with a scene in spring 1994 when a guest at a White House social event asks Bill Clinton why his administration didn’t pursue unresolved scandals from the Reagan-Bush era, such as the Iraqgate secret support for Saddam Hussein’s government and clandestine arms shipments to Iran.

Clinton responds to the questions from the guest, documentary filmmaker Stuart Sender, by saying, in effect, that those historical questions had to take a back seat to Clinton’s domestic agenda and his desire for greater bipartisanship with the Republicans.

Clinton “didn’t feel that it was a good idea to pursue these investigations because he was going to have to work with these people,” Sender told me in an interview. “He was going to try to work with these guys, compromise, build working relationships.”

Clinton’s relatively low regard for the value of truth and accountability is relevant again today because other centrist Democrats are urging their party to give George W. Bush’s administration a similar pass if the Democrats win one or both houses of Congress.

Reporting about a booklet issued by the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank of the Democratic Leadership Council, the Washington Post wrote, “these centrist Democrats … warned against calls to launch investigations into past administration decisions if Democrats gain control of the House or Senate in the November elections.”

These Democrats also called on the party to reject its “non-interventionist left” wing, which opposed the Iraq War and which wants Bush held accountable for the deceptions that surrounded it.

“Many of us are disturbed by the calls for investigations or even impeachment as the defining vision for our party for what we would do if we get back into office,” said pollster Jeremy Rosner, calling such an approach backward-looking.

Yet, before Democrats endorse the DLC’s don’t-look-back advice, they might want to examine the consequences of Clinton’s decision in 1993-94 to help the Republicans sweep the Reagan-Bush scandals under the rug. Most of what Clinton hoped for – bipartisanship and support for his domestic policies – never materialized.

‘Politicized’ CIA

After winning Election 1992, Clinton also rebuffed appeals from members of the U.S. intelligence community to reverse the Reagan-Bush “politicization” of the CIA’s analytical division by rebuilding the ethos of objective analysis even when it goes against a President’s desires.

Instead, in another accommodating gesture, Clinton gave the CIA director’s job to right-wing Democrat, James Woolsey, who had close ties to the Reagan-Bush administration and especially to its neoconservatives.

One senior Democrat told me Clinton picked Woolsey as a reward to the neocon-leaning editors of the New Republic for backing Clinton in Election 1992.

“I told that the New Republic hadn’t brought them enough votes to win a single precinct,” the senior Democrat said. “But they kept saying that they owed this to the editors of the New Republic.”

During his tenure at the CIA, Woolsey did next to nothing to address the CIA’s “politicization” issue, intelligence analysts said. Woolsey also never gained Clinton’s confidence and – after several CIA scandals – was out of the job by January 1995.

At the time of that White House chat with Stuart Sender, Clinton thought that his see-no-evil approach toward the Reagan-Bush era would give him an edge in fulfilling his campaign promise to “focus like a laser beam” on the economy.

He was taking on other major domestic challenges, too, like cutting the federal deficit and pushing a national health insurance plan developed by First Lady Hillary Clinton.

So for Clinton, learning the truth about controversial deals between the Reagan-Bush crowd and the autocratic governments of Iraq and Iran just wasn’t on the White House radar screen. Clinton also wanted to grant President George H.W. Bush a gracious exit.

“I wanted the country to be more united, not more divided,” Clinton explained in his 2004 memoir, My Life. “President Bush had given decades of service to our country, and I thought we should allow him to retire in peace, leaving the (Iran-Contra) matter between him and his conscience.”

Unexpected Results

Clinton’s generosity to George H.W. Bush and the Republicans, of course, didn’t turn out as he had hoped. Instead of bipartisanship and reciprocity, he was confronted with eight years of unrelenting GOP hostility, attacks on both his programs and his personal reputation.

Later, as tensions grew in the Middle East, the American people and even U.S. policymakers were flying partially blind, denied anything close to the full truth about the history of clandestine relationships between the Reagan-Bush team and hostile nations in the Middle East.

Clinton’s failure to expose that real history also led indirectly to the restoration of Bush Family control of the White House in 2001. Despite George W. Bush’s inexperience as a national leader, he drew support from many Americans who remembered his father’s presidency fondly.

If the full story of George H.W. Bush’s role in secret deals with Iraq and Iran had ever been made public, the Bush Family’s reputation would have been damaged to such a degree that George W. Bush’s candidacy would not have been conceivable.

Not only did Clinton inadvertently clear the way for the Bush restoration, but the Right’s political ascendancy wiped away much of the Clinton legacy, including a balanced federal budget and progress on income inequality. A poorly informed American public also was easily misled on what to do about U.S. relations with Iraq and Iran.

In retrospect, Clinton’s tolerance of Reagan-Bush cover-ups was a lose-lose-lose – the public was denied information it needed to understand dangerous complexities in the Middle East, George W. Bush built his presidential ambitions on the nation’s fuzzy memories of his dad, and Republicans got to enact a conservative agenda.

Clinton’s approach also reflected a lack of appreciation for the importance of truth in a democratic Republic. If the American people are expected to do their part in making sure democracy works, they need to be given at least a chance of being an informed electorate.

Yet, Clinton – and now some pro-Iraq War Democrats – view truth as an expendable trade-off when measured against political tactics or government policies. In reality, accurate information about important events is the lifeblood of democracy.

Though sometimes the truth can hurt, Clinton and the Democrats should understand that covering up the truth can hurt even more. As Clinton’s folly with the Reagan-Bush scandals should have taught, the Democrats may hurt themselves worst of all when helping the Republicans cover up the truth.

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq, can be ordered at secrecyandprivilege.com. It's also available at Amazon.com, as is his 1999 book, Lost History: Contras, C
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. Amount of time and money I will put into getting Clinton elected:
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Carville takes his orders from Bill and Hillary and besides
he has no official capacity in the party since he's an employee of CNN.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Carville is not criticising his own party, he is criticising non DLCers
big difference. He believes there is no place in the Democratic party for anyone who is not of the political elite.
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes! Ban dissent! Purge Dissenters! To Gitmo with them all!
We simply can't govern effectively if we allow people to speak their minds! That kind of disloyalty is intolerable! You're either with us or you're against us! Why does he hate the Democrats? Doesn't he know that kind of talk gives aid and comfort to the Republicans? He is clearly a traitor. Somebody should notify the Democratic Department of Partyland Security immediately! Now that we have control we must all toe the line and stay the course. This is perfect example of why torture IS justified. Why, torture would be too good for anyone who would betray the party by disagreeing! Perhaps we need re-education camps where these misguided fools can be retrained to see the error of their ways. Electroshock therapy, for example, might help them realize how they have ben mislead by the Godless evil called thinking for themselves.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. It's not genuine dissent. It's corporate resistance.
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 03:54 PM by BullGooseLoony
It's the interests of people with a lot of money at stake- not the real constituents and voters of our party.

Lemme put it another way- Carville isn't disagreeing with a policy issue. He isn't saying "I don't think that Dean is doing what is best for the country."

What he's saying is that he doesn't like that Dean is giving special money to his hand-picked buddies. It's a purely selfish gripe that hardly qualifies as "dissent."
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. That's "isn't giving".... nt
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Wow. Extreme. Straw. Man.
Where do you get off, posting tripe like this?
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. No, the Clintons need to tell him to chill out.
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 03:46 PM by Tatiana
Last time I checked, we didn't elect him to or pay him for anything.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kerry makes a bad joke? Dems jump on him. Carville wants to can the DNC chairman?
Oh, well, that's OK then.

There's DLC, and there's borderline Republican sympathy. Saying the RNC outperformed the DNC and that Dean's 50-state strategy was incompetent (earth to Carville - when's the last time we had a seat in WYOMING?) likely has little to do with the DLC, and more to do with somebody being a closet Republican.

I wonder who Carville voted for and supported in the 2004 presidential primary. My guess is Lieberman.
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Pyrzqxgl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Its called FREE SPEECH, it's in the Damned Bill of Rights, Scream your disagreements,
But LIVE WITH IT. If you can't go join the Republicans.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yeah, well when free speech is working against the Democratic Party
you're damn right we're going to challenge that Repuke scum CarVILE. Maybe you just stumbled on the wrong board. I'm sure the DLC has one some place.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. I love it! "Remove" sounds so .... terminal. Any former Gestapo here? KGB?
Let's decrease the size of the tent and squelch free speech.

Damn fine idea!
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whirlygigspin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Carville is just fighting to keep his place at the trough
and triangulate for Hillary.

He's smart, if not smarmy, but he has lost many friends this week--but at least he enjoyed his excellent lunch with Newt;
no doubt re-living their glory days and 'strategerizing' some future brilliant political coup de grace.

Some things are more important than your game James,
we are not your enemy,
be well and enjoy the free lunch & salad bar (all you can eat).







*God save us from courtisans and hand-maidens to power
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
15. Remove him from what? He's just some asshat speaking his tiny little mind.
Welcome to the First Amendment.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
16. Have Spin, Will Travel.*
*Although that's really an insult to the extra-noble Paladin.
The only way Carville will ever care about what we think
is if we pass the basket & pay him to care.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
17. What do you mean "PEOPLE like Carville?"
:D


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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. OMG
thats a fine piece of work!
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. He is a whiner that got his ego bruised
Howard Dean didn't drop everything and let Jimmy boy tell him how to "win" the election. All this BS coming out is nothing more than sour grapes from an egomaniac who didn't get his way.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. remove him from what?
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. from any and all influence over the Democratic party
or any of its elected leaders and candidates
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