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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:20 PM
Original message
Baptists ban gays from churches
Fail to onotice that most gays, other than self-loathing closet cases, have already banned themselves.

This looks like the new direction for Baptist congregations, and possibly for evangelical Christianity as a whole. I'd think that gay Baptists would be as rare as black Klansmen, but you never know--look at the Log Cabin Republican group.

snip

GREENSBORO, N.C. -- The Baptist State Convention of North Carolina voted Tuesday to cut ties with congregations that affirm or approve of homosexuality, formally adopting a rigid anti-gay policy that allows the group to investigate whether member churches are gay friendly.....

The vote changes the convention's long-standing laws, which previously only required its members to support the convention through cooperation and financial contributions. Now any churches that "knowingly act to affirm, approve, endorse, promote, support or bless homosexual behavior" will be barred from membership.

the link

http://dwb.newsobserver.com/news/ncwire_news/story/3017174p-9436796c.html
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rhiannon55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Baptists are morons eom
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Of course. Actually, I think it's a requirement for membership.
Check your brain at the door, and all that.
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Chorophyll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. This is the Southern Baptists, I guess,
as distinct from the "mainstream" ones. Not that I'm defending any Baptists, but the Southern Baptist Convention has a long history of this bullshit.
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Chorophyll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Whoops. Meant to reply to OP. n/t
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. Yes
Specifically, it's the NC state convention of Southern Baptists. Other state conventions have done/will do the same, in a purge of all churches even remotely tolerant of gays.

Southern Baptists, being (I think) the largest Baptist denomination in the country, like to imagine that they are the mainstream baptists, but everyone knows better--they're the state religion of the old confederacy.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thats what Jesus would do - stand in the door of his Church
and ban people from entering. Praise Jesus and get my klan robe dry cleaned.

Oh and Honey I'll be on a business trip to Metropolis through the weekend.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. "Ans if you call my hotel room and a strange man answers, well,
he's my...my...fellowship brother. Yeah, that's it, we'll be doing....fellowship and stuff."
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Somebody tell me again
how mainstream religion is so supportive of Gays and Lesbians. I haven't heard that fairy tale yet today.
:eyes:
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Chorophyll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. It's not.
Most of 'em just sit back and let the extremists speak for them.
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Red Right and BLUE Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nice.
The fact that most of them may not have ever wanted in will be lost on them... lmao. Freakin Baptists. To think I used to be one. Hey, not by choice, really!
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Kookaburra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Same here
I was raised southern baptist -- many years ago. Have, since the age of 10 or 11, been absent of their membership (having to do with the exclusionary aspects of mainstream religion, but that's another story). Why would anyone outside the KKK want to associate his or her name with such bigotry and hate? Why? I remember the church people from my childhood, and don't recall this degree of hatred. Maybe it's just more obvious to me now.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. yeah, like the Rainbow Baptists are going to care.
:eyes:
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Do they set up a Gay-O-Meter at the top of each aisle in the sanctuary?
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 03:29 PM by hatrack
Do you have to empty your pockets and put your computers into little plastic tubs like at the airport?

I mean, really, how the hell are they going to know?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. It's all for show, of course.
PR. Show all their sexually repressed and obsessed members how dedicated they are, after all that business with the gay anti-gay preacher.

Sadly it's probably also done to help all the closet cases in the pews to keep those closets nailed firmly shut. For now, anyway.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Active Gaydar
They're installing it in all the churches. It's all the rage.
The Professor
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. I don't think all Baptists are morons
but I do think their official religion is dangerously offcourse from Christianity. And someone picked up the stone and started throwing, defying the words of Jesus.
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. I think all salvationist religions have always been of course
from the successful time-tested strategies earned by the evolution of the community of life on Earth.

The idea that humans need to be saved was the first stone thrown, and it was thrown at the entire human race. Did the prophets come to save the world? Hell no.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. How very Christian of them.
:grr:
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
12. meanwhile in South Africa, ...
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Yes, there's good news there.
Hopefully others will be enlightened by the rational tolerance exhibited there.
Hopefully.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. Love the sinner and hate the sin. LOL!
Exclude the open "sinner," while committing hidden "sins" = the actual practice.

They haven't banned homosexuals from their churches. No, they've banned honest people from their churches.
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. How do they know someone is Gay??
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twilight_sailing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. I shouldn't say this...
but, um, when you go to a Baptist church, take a good look at the Choir Director.


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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Check the gaydar. If it doesn't ping
he's screwing the church secretary. :evilgrin:
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. Jeebus says...
"Attaboy, Baptists! Just like th' goobook tells ya!"



:crazy:






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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I wonder if Jeebus would approve of Corinthians...
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 05:05 PM by greyl
"Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men...will inherit God's kingdom." (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10)

homosexuals, variously described as:
# "men who practice homosexuality," (ESV);
# "those who participate in homosexuality," (Amplified);
# "abusers of themselves with men," (KJV);
# "practicing homosexuals," (NAB);
# "homosexuals," (NASB, CSB, NKJ, The Great Book: The New Testament in Plain English);
# "homosexual perversion," (NEB);
# "homosexual offenders," (NIV);
# "liers with mankind," (Rhiems); and
# "homosexual perverts." (TEV)


http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc1.htm
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-17-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Hmmm... Makes that whole "The Bible is the Literal Word of God!" argument...
... a bit tricky, doesn't it? When no one can agree on what words mean, how they should be translated, what the actual intent of a statement is...

"Literal" seems to be kind of a moving target, huh? :shrug:
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-17-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. It sure does.
I'd love it if more of the faithful who are apologetics for their chosen Holy Book would realize that the reliable mechanisms(logic, reason, empathy, pragmatism) they use to disregard the garbage in their Book can serve as a solid foundation for their entire worldview - no revealed guide necessary.
Throw the Books away, and start fresh, I say.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. this is aimed at several liberal Baptist churches in NC
They belong to a group called the alliance of Baptist churches.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-17-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. I live in NC and can clear up a few facts regarding this story...
Baptist Churches are autonomous in nature --meaning that the individual church cannot be made to do anything by a heirarchal authority. Churches 'voluntarily' decide whether to join and or participate in local 'associations' which can adopt their own rules for membership and participation. Baptist churches that are 'in friendly cooperation' with the Baptist State Convention, which means they volutarily adopt and profess agreement with core beliefs and contribute money to the State Convention, may attend and vote at the annual Convention. Baptist State Conventions make their own rules for cooperation and membership with individual churches in their state, and are usually voluntarily aligned with the national body --The Southern Baptist Convention.

In each case, membership and cooperation by the local church with each of these groups is voluntary. The Southern Baptist Convention was created to foster local church cooperative funding of missionaries and their work abroad as well as at home, under a long standing program known as "The Cooperative Program." The idea was to pool the money to be more effective in reaching the most people.

Over 14 yrs ago a political group of conservatives decided to "take over" the Southern Baptist Convention and all its assets. They were successful in doing this by using 'hot button issues' and deception to encourage certain local church members to show up at the National Convention and vote in their candidates for office. Once in positions of power they began 'purging' members who were not part of their 'conservative' political group. This has been going on for an extended period of time, and about 6 yrs ago most churches that did not agree with the strict fundamentalist philosophy had 'pulled out' and disassociated themselves from the national Southern Baptist Convention.

As part of the 'take over' the conservatives in power began to enact a heirarchal top down control over its members, eventually down to the local churches. You either complied, or you were kicked out. Many churches left, but many churches remained affiliated and contributed their money just like they always had to the national convention, without fully understanding the issues.

Many moderate churches started their own State Conventions, and supported moderate groups who acted liked Baptists before the 'take over.' The national Southern Baptist Convention immediately refused to acknowledge them or allow them to participate, and in fact tried to kick out any church who contributed to them or supported them in any way. The largest group of moderates still operating inside the national convention is the Cooperative Baptist Foundation(CBF), which the conservatives are battling to kick out, but have yet to be successful in their efforts.

This is about money and power, pure and simple. The Southern Baptist Convention wants all contributions to go directly to them, and not be shared with any other group which they do not control(like the CBF). They have used the 'hot button issues' of inerrancy of the Bible, and now the issue of supporting or condoning 'homosexuality' in an attempt to prevent churches from contributing to groups they do not control, like the Baptist Alliance.

THe Baptist Alliance is a voluntary organization that is moderate in its views, is Baptist in its core beliefs, but supports outreach efforts to provide support and relief to people in need, and organizations on the ground who deliver the relief to the people in need. Some of the organizations that provide the relief on the ground have relationships with gay groups to more effectively reach the people in need of help.

The Southern Baptist Convention leaders are using the fact that the Baptist Alliance would 'do business with' groups that work with gay organizations to deliver relief as the wedge issue, to pry those churches' contributions away from the Baptist Alliance and back into their pockets exclusively, by threatening that churches which cooperate with the Baptist Alliance will be kicked out of the Southern National Convention.

What you are seeing with this story is one of the last straws in full take over of the State Baptist Convention of North Carolina by the leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention. Soon you will not be able to be a member of the State Baptist Convention without also first being a member of the national Southern Baptist Convention, which by the way the State Baptist Convention was formed first and has never had that as a requirement of membership.

A lot of Baptist Churches have a moderate stance on gays, and welcome them into their churches like anyone else. However these churches stopped cooperating with the national Southern Baptist Convention long ago, and now they are being pried away from the State Baptist Convention.

The 'gay issue' is not a core belief of Baptists, and never has been. It has been turned into a wedge issue for purposes of maintaining and exploiting money and power.

Traditionally, Baptists believe that all have sinned and fallen short of God's plan for them, and that all sin is unacceptable before God. Therefore adultery, embezzlement, false witness, etc. are all sin which cannot be categorized in any heirarchal way. But you don't hear much about these other sins because they are not useful for exploitation by the political group in power receiving the benefits of all the money flowing into them.

Next time you hear a negative story about "Southern Baptists' just remember that for the most part Baptists give freely of their time and money to help others politics aside. They served more meals after 911 and Katrina than any other group, they are a first class disaster relief organization made up entirely of volunteers. They provide free services of dental and healthcare throughout the US and overseas. However, it is the local churches that do the funding and the work, and then these self-appointed conservative leaders go on TV and take the credit.

And many Baptists and their Churces do not deserve to be 'painted' all the same with the self-appointed leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention who do not represent them or their beliefs, and spit forth hate instead of love for their fellow man.

Top down organizations wielding authoritative power over Baptist local churches is totally foreign to the core Baptist beliefs. And remember they do not speak for 'all Southern Baptists.'
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Homer Wells Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
27. Southern Baptists = TALI -Baptists nt
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-17-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
30. I banned myself from Baptise churches
I'm not gay but I quit that ,cough-church, years ago.
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distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-17-06 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
31. This is not right.
Edited on Fri Nov-17-06 10:32 AM by distantearlywarning
Let's just assume, hypothetically, that they are correct and homosexuality is a sin. (I don't personally believe that, but they do.)

So, just like everyone else, homosexuals are sinners.

Where in the Bible does it say that sinners aren't welcome in the house of Jesus? Where does it say that to worship Christ you have to be perfect in every way? Did Jesus wear a sign around his neck that said, "Sorry, no sinners allowed here. Go back and fix your sins before you come talk to me!"

The answer is: nowhere. Jesus embraced everyone who wanted to find him, regardless of how sinful they had been. He didn't hang out with perfect people, he hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors. He would have been horrified by people kicking worshippers out of his church because they were too sinful (according to man's perception, of course).

These people aren't Christians. They're Pharisees. And this action goes against what Christ told us to do for one another.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-17-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
32. While I'm sure there are good individuals who are Baptist...
...the organization appears content to be one of the most regressive un-Jesus-like institutions in the world today.
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