I hope the Democrats didn't just guarantee a 3rd Party candidate in 08

[Armstead]

I am not one of those who believe that a Green Party or otehr Third Party is a wise strategy. I want to see a democratic Democratic Party again.

But I was sympathetic to the Nader movement in 2000, because after 20 years of Centrist Democratic Bullshit, I also believed that something was needed to inject some new reality into the political system.

I have a feeling the Snooty faction of the Democratic Party may have just widened the gap between being liberal/progressive and being a Democrat for many people. Which may provide more fuel for at least one "spoiler" candidate in 08.

This isn't the day to think clearly. But I fear the Democrats who ignored their base have just added o0ne more brick in the wall.

Please note: I do not include all Democrats. Just the so-called centrists and cowards who can't see the forest for the trees -- or who choose not to see the forest for ther trees.

[mzmolly]

1. Well given Nader said not to worry about the supreme court, I hope not.

For god sakes, today should have taught progressives the importance of supporting a DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL nominee!

[rainy]

3. Why? What have done for us lately?

[mzmolly]

20. Who? Nader. He's done nothing lately - except take money from the Swift

Boat Vets to split the progressive vote.

As for what Dems have done, you'll have to look at individuals to ascertain that.

[Telly Savalas]

29. He has done nothing lately. He wasn't a factor in 2004.

So it's pretty dishonest to try to hang this on him instead of the Democratic Senators who voted against a filibuster.

[Armstead]

30. This isn;t about Nader....He was just a symptom

[saltpoint]

2. An interesting point, Armstead. I think there's definitely some

interest in third party voting for 2008, especially if Senator Clinton is the Democrats' nominee.

[obreaslan]

9. Sure, President Jeb sounds like a good idea...

NOT!

But that is what will happen if the left splits the vote again in '08. We might as well march ourselves into the camps and save the fascists the trouble!

:grr:

[More Than A Feeling]

4. The beat will go on if the left splits in 2008

If there were to be a third party, then it would have to be a wholesale, en masse shift.

[Armstead]

7. It would weaken the Democratic Party enough to ensure GOP victory

[More Than A Feeling]

8. Quite right, I meant that if there is a split, there will be more

Republican dominance to bewail. It'll be groundhog day when Stevens retires or dies

[Armstead]

10. The Democrats COULD forestall that

But to do that they can't keep repeating this fucking pattern

[Coexist]

26. who created that huge gulf? The base, or those assholes

licking the boots of the "swing voters".

I have no sympathy for the conundrum they find themselves in.

[kath]

13. Unless we can restore free and fair elections, it really doesn't really

matter...

[cheezus]

5. no, much better - a REAL democratic nominee in 08

the DINOs have lost the base.

[Armstead]

11. I want to see a REAL Democratic nominee and make it irrelevant

But they've got to start listening, and stop making it so hard for liberals and progressives to be heard.

We are their base. Not the Bush-loving conservatives.

[politicasista]

17. It's too early to think about 08. It's time to think of 06 n/t

[Beelzebud]

6. If it happens. Don't blame the 3rd party. Blame the dems....

They gave us no other options.

[mmonk]

12. Nader enabled the bush regime

but the dems have enabled the court to go rightwing for a long time. They are responsible alone for the next third party candidate.

[Armstead]

15. That's my point

If we face this kind of thing in the next couple of years, the Democrats will only have themselves to blame.

Forget this damn psassive centrist shit. Get back to their roots.

[iconoclastNYC]

14. I wish we would have a third party Democrat

Someone who would point out the problem with the Democratic party. Nader didn't do it in the right way. If I were that candidate I'd call out the DLC for what they are.........Republican intruders who aim to neutralize our party from inside.

Sometimes I think the only way we'll get our party back is by having a high-level Democrat leaving the party and call out the DLC for what it is.

We need traditional democrats. We get "New" Democrats where new indicates that you are subsidiary of corporate America.

[DURHAM D]

16. The Christian Taliban could have started a third party several

years back or take over the Repugs. They decided to take over the Repug party from the precinct up.

The progressive/liberal wing of the Democratic Party needs to take back their own party.

Only a two party system can work in this country. Anyone suggesting a third party movement of progressives in this country is suspect in my mind.

Let's take a page from the Repugs and take back our own party.

[Cats Against Frist]

18. Agreed -- I'm a libertarian who votes Dem

kind of "too radical," for any party -- but rather than vote libertarian -- which is really what I believe (I'm progressive, I just don't believe in a strong federal government) -- I'll still vote Dem, because what the GOP stands for is far more scary. They are fascists. I know that my duty is to stop them and not to play scrotum over my identity politics. People razz me for being a libertarian, sometimes, but I'm a strong Dem supporter -- mostly because I fucking hate Republicans.

[Armstead]

23. I agree -- But this has been a problem for at least 20 years

The Democrats started running away from the "special interest groups" on "the left" in the 1970's.

Since then they have allowed the pro-corporate, spineless "centrists" to become embedded deep within their power structure.

Two things have to hapopen in the next couple of years. 1)We who are on the half from moderate to left have to get our shit together. 2)The Democratic Establishment has to be opened up.

It's a pain in the ass to have to fight a two-front war against both parties just to get back to the real "political middle." It can be done, but 20 years is a lot of crap to overcome.

[High Plains]

27. Remember the Whigs!

If we can't have a liberal, progressive Democratic Party, maybe it's time for the Democratic Party to get out of the way.

[formernaderite]

19. As long a progressive independant candidate wins the nomination

I think you'll see alot of people voting democrat...of course there are plenty of candidates I would NOT ever vote for. I may just stay home out of protest.

[WildEyedLiberal]

21. Support someone who voted for the filibuster

Or better yet, someone with the balls to LEAD the filibuster: John Kerry.

[mtnester]

22. No, I think they just guaranteed Wes Clark

I can only hope

[Armstead]

24. Clark? Nooooo he's "too radical."

That was sarcasm. But too true in the present skewed political spectrum.

[mydreamcametrue]

25. I'm sure Nader will run, but he will have little impact.

Actually, there might be a 3rd party candidate from the other side. The right not happy with the repubs.

[Name removed]

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