Who were the Democrats who voted for Steny Hoyer?

[shance]

I haven't seen a list.

:shrug:

[kiahzero]

1. I don't think it's a matter of public record.

I could be wrong, though.

[shance]

4. Why? So they arent held accountable? They force on us the Patriot Act

Yet they are allowed essentially carte blanche secrecy on anything that could paint the faux Democrats in a negative light.

[kiahzero]

11. Ironic choice of words.

You realize that in addition to being weak on corruption, Murtha was the more conservative of the two candidates, right?

If you don't like the rule, lobby to change it.

[shance]

LOL!! And how do you define conservative my friend?

n/t

[kiahzero]

22. Voting for conservative causes.

Voting with the Christian Coalition, voting against NARAL, etc. You know, like Murtha did.

[shance]

54. You still fail to define "conservative".

Is it because its a convenient label with which to categorize people instead of looking at the reality and the fact it has nothing to do with simplistic labels?

Labels are easy. They are lazy ways to encapsulate people and ideas instead of looking at the more important ambiguities.

You can do better than that my friend!

[gully]

15. What is faux about voting for Hoyer?

The votes have always been anonymous. Why not inquire about who voted for Trent Lott?

[texpatriot2004]

16. Exactly, chickenshit DINOs nm

[bottomofthehill]

43. Rightwing Assholes like Barney Frank, Charlie Rangel

Oops I guess they were not all right wing assholes he beat Congressman Murtha 2-1, i dont think the Blue dogs make up that much of the Caucus

[bowens43]

2. It's a secret ballot. No list.

[shance]

6. Why the secrecy?

What are they afraid of?

[gully]

17. You're kidding right? It's always been a secret vote so that politics

don't play a role and the party can unite immediately after.

[shance]

27. YOU'RE kidding right?

So because it's always been a secret, then its okay for them to keep that knowledge from you?

You keep giving away information that is rightfully yours and of course they'll keep it safely hidden "for your protection".

I'm sure its a "National Security" issue.

[kiahzero]

28. Nice strawman.

I like this one better:

[gully]

38. Uhm, it's not rightfully mine

or yours.

[mountainvue]

48. The founding fathers made this rule.

They were pretty good with everything else they came up with so I'm just going to go ahead and trust them on this one too.

[napi21]

3. It's a secret ballot. You'll never know. n/t

[Arkana]

5. That's probably good

That way it decreases the infighting here--I'm sick and tired of hearing "Your guy SUCKS!" "Oh yeah? Your guy sucks MORE!"

[shance]

10. It's good that they are keeping their votes from being known to us?

LOL!

Good for who?

[gully]

19. Good for democracy. Your vote is secret is it not?

The votes on the issues are part of public record, but WHO we vote for is a private matter in this case.

[shance]

29. Im fine with people knowing who I vote for. Keep in mind they used to raise hands

way back when. That's about as public as it gets. And probably one of the best most transparent ways to vote frankly.

Secrecy breeds corruption especially in the halls of privilege and exclusion.

[kiahzero]

32. The secret vote protects people from voter intimidation. (n/t)

[shance]

53. The public vote provides us with accurate, authentic vote tabulation.

I hear what you are saying and yet, the privacy clause has been exploited to a degree that corruption is dictating the results, due to the excuse of privacy.

What do we do?

There are answers that we must acknowledge and address.

[gully]

37. It's not "secrecy" our right to privacy

and it's sacred.

[bdamomma]

7. on Hardball tonite, they said it was the Blue Dog Dems

who voted Steny in.

[Nite Owl]

13. There's about 30-40

of them so the DLC or New Democrats caucus had to vote for him too. I believe Hoyer is one of them. From what I heard a lot of the Progressive Caucus was voting for Murthat. Very odd since Murtha is far more a conservative then Hoyer and the votes were the opposite because of the war vote.

[kiahzero]

20. Plenty of members of the Progressive Caucus voted for Hoyer.

http://democraticwhip.house.gov/media/press.cfm?pressReleaseID=1600

[Perky]

8. UMM quite simply the majority of Dems vored for Steny

What is your point?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. The bosses don't want you to know. Just applaud their decrees.

[shance]

12. Absolutely. Three cheers for the emperor and the imperial Congress.

Who have done essentially nothing but pass laws stealing our rights, our money and our property, while they give themselves another unwarranted pay raise, oh, and pass a flag burning amendment.

Hip Hip Hooray.

[kiahzero]

14. Wow

The flag burning amendment didn't pass.

[shance]

18. Oh horrors. My bad. You can see I was so concerned about it

the vote must have slipped my mind.

[gully]

21. LOL, Have you compared the voting records of Murtha and Hoyer?

My guess is - no.

[kiahzero]

23. That'd require some analysis.

It's easier to just scream: "ZOMG DLC WTF!"

[gully]

25. Indeed some people are great at it as well. Seems the same sort of

post from the same sort of posters - over and over again.

Murtha now controls the congressional purse strings on Iraq, no one appears to be discussing that?

[aquart]

24. You are talking about the Republicans. Wrong forum.

Wrong attitude.

[Daylin Byak]

30. Not to sound rude but...

Who gives a crap about who voted for Hoyer, it's not a matter of public record and does it really matter, he's out majority leader and there's nothing you can do about it, it's really unfortunate that the Dems elected a spinless Dem over a courtagous leader.

Just all need to move on.

[kiahzero]

33. A real shame they voted for someone against corruption. (n/t)

[Daylin Byak]

39. And it's a shame they voted in...

A DLC hack who is spineless and so many things like vote for the Bankruptcy bill and help come with the help america vote act.

Murtha is not corrupt and was a better candidate than the two, have fun with our DLC leader.

[GemMom]

46. Unindicted co-conspirator?

ABSCAM. That should be enough. Sorry but that's the reality of it. Many of our reps remember that whole thing all too well and apparently felt a need to distance themselves.

[DemonFighterLives]

26. I don't know enough about Hoyer to tear into him

but the dems. did appear to have a united front. And Murtha for all his good would have been nothing but a target to the swiftboaters of the repug. party. He is still in a position to help end the war.
:dem:

[shance]

35. Who said I'm tearing into Hoyer? I'm 'tearing into' the process.

I will be frank and say simply because someone likes to call themselves a Democrat doesn't mean they necessarily are one.

I could call myself an Asian foreign studies student, but that wouldn't qualify me as being one.

Hoyers record in my opinion is more in line with Republicans than it ever has been with true Democrats.

[kiahzero]

36. *snicker*

Heh.. heh..

:rofl:

[gully]

40. Care to provide that record for the rest of us?

nt

[gully]

41. *crickets*

.

[gully]

42. *jeopardy theme song*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYhbGBAdZJg

[shance]

52. Let me repeat, just because someone qualifies themselves as a Dem

doth not maketh them one.

You believe whatever makes you comfortable, however it is the truth that will guide and propel your lives, no matter how much you choose to accept or deny it.

You can choose, just like many Bush supporters, to either believe he really supports you and/or he doesnt.

The same applies here.

I have no interest in Hoyer other than his actions. That's it. Period.

How much have his actions actually contributed to making the planet a healthier, saner place to live?

That's the question.

That is what will show his character or lack thereof.

That in and of itself will reveal the truth as to who Steny Hoyer is and how trustworthy he is as a Democrat.

[gully]

55. Check his voting record. He's very similiar to Murtha on most issues

with the exception of choice, he's pro-choice, Murtha is not.

[BlooInBloo]

31. There's a reason why it's called "secret ballot".

[elocs]

34. I heard a story on NPR the other day about who new member supported.

What was interesting about the ones who said they supported Hoyer was the money they received from each one for their campaigns, such as $1000 from Murtha versus $10,000 from Hoyer. Made me wonder at the time. Maybe means nothing, who knows?

[Perky]

44. The real issue behind Hoyer's election ought to be plainly obvious

The majority leader's role is to speak for the caucus, drive consensus, enforce party discipline and play legislative traffic cop. It is a tough job. The caucus felt Hoyer was better suited. It really is that simple...

But there is also an important subtext. Look the american people in their infinite wisdom chose the Democrats to lead for the next two years. We need to understand that we can no longer be the party of obstruction and protest: we are suppose to lead!

To those who think that the election of majority leader was some sort of referendum on our policy on Iraq, I would suggest that such a view is both politically naive and intellectually lazy.

The caucus chose a moderate to lead them for reasons some of you apparently can't fathom. We have to govern now! Maybe you are unable to see the burdens of leadership through your rose-colored glasses, but the members see things clearly and so does the electorate. We must be about more than simply pulling out of Iraq and impeaching Bush. However appealing those out come might be. It is not in and of itself "governing".

The House has chosen its leadership. The American people want us to get thing done. You should to...let's move on

[dysfunctional press]

45. most of them.

i'd rather see who voted for murtha.

[mountainvue]

47. Secret ballot. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. It's the "transparency" in government the politicians love to lie about.

You know, "doing the people's business", but not letting anyone know about it. Save for the elite few.

[fujiyama]

50. It's a secret ballot

Though a few congresspeople made it clear who they were supporting.

Even though Hoyer is a moderate, he received quite a bit of support from congressional black caucus members.

This was a weird battle, considering both are somewhat moderate, though Hoyer was a backer of the war, he is more liberal on social issues like abortion.

[cali]

51. Hoyer has a 95% rating from the ADA

How do you reconcile that with your claim that he's a moderate?

[fujiyama]

56. He's sort of like Biden and some other northeast politicians

moderate-liberal on social issues, but when it comes to corporate power, he sides with them... like the bankruptcy bill for example.