We are in the midst of a "War that never was"

[Horse with no Name]

It was never declared by Congress.
At what point can our newly-elected Congress cut Bush off at the knees?
Every soldier sent over at this point is the responsibility of the Democrats. Every single one. Each soldier represents kindling to be fed to the giant bonfire that is the debacle in Iraq. I will be highly disappointed if they agree with the Baker plan if it means to send any more soldiers into harms way.
Bring.Them.Home.Now.

[Dhalgren]

1. Agree 10,000%! Bring them home now.

[bryant69]

2. By "at this point' do you mean January?

Or do you mean today?

They haven't actually taken power yet. ALthough I suppose you'll probably be dissappointed when they do.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Horse with no Name]

3. January.

When we take office, however, I fully expect them to stand up for this before then.
And wtf do you mean I will be disappointed when they take power? What a stupid fucking thing to say.

[lapfog_1]

5. No, not really.

What, precisely, do you expect them to DO in January?

They could introduce a "let's get out NOW" bill and pass it, send it to the Senate and pass it (after first going nuclear and changing the Senate rules on the number of votes needed to close debate AND somehow getting joementum to vote to close debate - whew, that was easy!). So now you send said legislation to the White House where The Decider simply vetoes it.

Now what?

We voted to change things. We won. We won't be allowed to change the one thing that most voters voted on.
The Dems are going to have to get creative.

Sorry to burst your bubble... I'm all in favor of packing our shit up over there and fighting our way back to Kuwait.

[Horse with no Name]

7. No bubbles burst here

but sending more troops over there isn't the answer.

[lapfog_1]

9. Now that is something we might be able to stop. - n/t

[magellan]

10. Stand up is exactly what they should do

Even if they can't in fact do anything to force Bush** to develop a plan to bring our troops home, they should finally and at long last stand up and make a loud noise about it. The American people elected the Dems partly because they're tired of Bush**'s so-called war in Iraq.

[wuushew]

4. I don't believe in defunding as an anti-war tactic

People are not willing to trade increased casualties in the near term for the possible cessation of casualties in the future. (Let me explain further)

No matter what type of military withdrawal, all such operations take time. Money which was previously earmarked for vehicle maintainence, ammo stockpiles or bullet proof vests would invariably would create additional Amerikan causalities over the same time periods had funding remained at the original planned level. It would not be hard to spin the case that a certain number of dollars were saved at the cost of Private Johnny Smith from Po dunk Alabama.

People didn't care in Vietnam because the funding cutoff fell on the South Vietnamese not the American military.

The correct course of action is for Congress to repeal the War Powers Act and the IWR, give the President an ultimatum to withdrawal and when he refuses impeach he and Cheney. President Pelosi could then correctly carry out the will Congress and discontinue this illegal unsanctioned war.

[Horse with no Name]

6. I have no problem with a scheduled drawdown of troops

I have a significant problem with a buildup.
If Bush is going to continue to defy the will of the American people, I sincerely hope that our new Congress will stand up to this.

[lapfog_1]

12. I think that scheduled draw down would be a disaster.

We been there in Vietnam.

The best idea is for us to announce we are leaving, pull all of our forces into a rally point (with constant air cover) and then fight our way in mass to the Kuwait border. It really is that bad.

Or another way to phrase it... which troops would YOU ask to be the last 10,000 or even 40,000 left in Iraq?

[lapfog_1]

8. If we vote to effectively eliminate funding for the military

and, thus, the troops that are in Iraq...

Well, we better enjoy the next two years of recall elections and impeachment proceedings AGAINST our representatives... because after 2008, Dems will never again be given the reins of power in this country.

There is NO sentiment, even withing the liberal/progressive wing of the Dem party to undermine the troops.
Anti-war. Certainly. Let the troops die without supplies and ammo. Nope. None.

Bushitler knows it... which is why he said yesterday that "the difference between Vietnam and Iraq is that the American people are behind the troops"... and he is right about that.

[Horse with no Name]

11. Maybe I wasn't clear

I meant that if Bush continues to build up troops in the region then I hope that Congress will consider hard decisions.
However, as a family of active military, I don't want to see funding cut.
That only means they are being shot at for free. That's not an answer either.