Views of Tasing Incident From UCLA Students

[Scoot420fla]

UCLA Student, Daily Bruin writer and Rodney King joke enthusiast David Lazar believes Tabatabainejad 'got what he deserved' when repeatedly tasered by UCPD officers. He believes it is ok to use excessive force on a skinny unarmed college kid for not having his student card and being verbally uncooperative. He is actually confused as to why he wouldn’t just stand up as the officers demanded after getting a 3-5 second jolt of electricity through his body over and over again. This, coming from a guy who has at the bottom of his page:

"Send your favorite Rodney King jokes to Lazar at [e-mail]. Send general comments to [e-mail]."

An unsigned editorial representing the majority of the 7 member editorial board of the same Daily Bruin paper completely disagrees:

"The use of Tasers as a form of enforcement when there is no imminent danger is unacceptable. Using this device to subdue a student in the library who appeared to be walking out on his own shows a lack of good judgement on the behalf of the UCPD officers."

More on story at http://www.truthstream.org/?p=382

[William769]

1. Did you actually read the piece he wrote? (David Lazar)

[Scoot420fla]

2. Every word

why do you ask?

[William769]

3. Thats not how I took the atricle.

[Scoot420fla]

4. ok explain

"Tabatabainejad refused multiple police demands to leave Powell before any force was used, according to a university police statement. The police were called when Tabatabainejad refused to leave after being asked repeatedly to do so by CSOs.

Though the student eventually started to leave after the police arrived, he began to resist them.

At this point, when the student stopped cooperating, the police began to use the Taser on the student.

The disobedience continued. On the video, you can clearly hear the police officers asking Tabatabainejad to stand up.

"Fuck off," he replied.

"Stand up, or you'll get Tased again," an officer said.

The police repeated the command for the student to stand up 23 times before using the Taser on him the second time.

Still he refused to stand. Watching the video of the event, I counted a total of 73 requests by the police for the student to stand up."

So why didnt he just stand up? Thats what I got out of it.

[Scoot420fla]

5. meanwhile...

the editorial board gives an explanation:

"An article in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001 reports that a charge from a Taser of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes.

The footage shows repeated electrical shocks given to Tabatabainejad in intervals of less than five minutes, and he may have been truly unable to stand up on his own. So just how did the officers expect Tabatabainejad to comply with their repeated orders to stand up? "

[Scoot420fla]

6. Not to mention...

"In my opinion, he was asking for it." from Mr. "Send Me Your Rodney King Jokes" Lazar. Sounds to me he has the mindset of "Since he has an Iranian last name, he must be a terrorist or bad person, so he probably deserves it anyways". His Rodney King joke request at the bottom discredits every opinion of his IMHO.

[William769]

8. To begin with the police did not randomly pick him out.

They were called. The student was given ample opportunity to comply with a lawful command (I know alot of people have a problem with that statement but thats just the way society works). Correct me if I'm wrong but this did happen at night, and with all the trouble that there has been on college campus's over the years the police had every right to ask the student to leave. As a retired law enforcement officer I can see the need to remove the student from this situation as quickly as possible.

I have stayed out of this argument so far on DU because of my background, but your first paragraph in the OP told me it was time to step in.

Was the student stupid for what he did? Did the police use excess use of force? Thats will be for the courts to decide.

My motto is and always will be public safety comes first.

As to the use of Tasers by police, I am still on the fence about that one (when I retired we had not used them yet), I have been weighing the pro's & con's on the issue and am still undecided.

From the articles I have read on this incident, IMHO there is blame to be had on both sides.

[Scoot420fla]

9. No one is arguing he shouldnt have left

The argument is what it excessive force? Was it appropriate to taser this poor guy 5 times because he wouldnt get up after being tased??

It could be effectively argued, with the right set of circumstances before the video started recording, that the first tase was warranted. NO ONE can argue, IMHO, that any subsequent ones were. After the THIRD shock, the man was handcuffed and was tased TWO MORE times.

What escapes me even more is why it is that they couldnt do a computer check (they were in the library after all) to see if he was a student. With original of a name as his (by American standards), the mere fact that he could SPELL IT RIGHT would be proof to me that he was who he said he was. I find it hard to believe in this day an age of high level technology that a lamenated paper card is the only way an officer can identify a student.

[Richard Steele]

11. Some of us don't need a COURT to tell us that tasing a prone, hancuffed kid...

...is WRONG.

I've already DECIDED that all by myself- no Court necessary.

[William769]

12. Bush likes to make decisions on his own also.

Look where that got us.

[Richard Steele]

14. Are you saying you DISAGREE?

[William769]

15. Ever hear the term "the decider"

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

33. Oh, right! The problem is *people making their own decisions*

:eyeroll:

That is possibly the most ridiculous post I've ever seen on DU. Seriously. So, what about witnesses at Auschwitz? Should they have doubted their assessment of the matter until a court of law ruled that it was torture? Are you insane?

Newsflash buddy, I make my own decisions every day.

[mondo joe]

36. Bush likes to decide it's okay to torture, also.

[mitchleary]

13. Thank you. nt

nt

[AZCat]

18. I don't understand how, with a motto like that...

you can tolerate the use of excessive force by public officials in situations that don't require it. Does not public safety include protecting the victim?

[Richard Steele]

19. I guess it all depends upon who "we" is in his mind.

[AZCat]

20. I guess so.

Perhaps the poster will be kind enough to elaborate?

[William769]

22. All you had to do was give me a chance to respond.

Sorry if I was not quick enough for you.

[AZCat]

24. It was a response to the poster...

not an indictment of you (and your posting speed).





Edit: miscellaneous

[William769]

21. Has not been proven excess force was used.

He endangered public saftey by his actions.

[AZCat]

23. I'm going to call BS on that.

If you can't agree that in this case the response was disproportionate to whatever "endangerment" of public safety this kid represented then I think the opportunity for productive discourse is lost.

[William769]

25. Call it what you want, doesn't change the facts.

Productive discourse on this discussion was lost awhile ago.

[AZCat]

26. Perhaps.

It is unfortunate. Perhaps there are situations that just cannot be resolved between certain parties?

[Richard Steele]

27. He was "Endangering Public Safety" while prone and handcuffed?

Pull the other one, officer-it's got bells on!

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Binka]

28. Exactly How Did He Endanger Public Safety?

You are going beyond the ridiculous here. I took you off ignore to read this nonsense. Now you are going back on. Jesus.

[William769]

29. Not that you will see this but...

You hurt my feelings. NOT! :rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. No, the police endangered public safety by his actions.

The student was just reading a book, in a library, endangering no one.

[mondo joe]

37. How about threatening another student with the taser for asking for

his badge number?

Was THAT a threat to public safety too?

[readmoreoften]

32. Yup. You officially freak me out.

If you can't find a way to get a kid who forgot his library card out of a library (And where did you get information that the campus police were called and that this wasn't random?) without shocking him repeatedly with a weapon-- even after he's in handcuffs then you are a failure as a law enforcement officer and/or a sadist. There is no other explanation. It's really pretty simple.

What next? Use electric shocks against students at a sit in?

[Igel]

38. The article in the Daily Bruin

said that the CSOs were doing a routine ID check in the library's CLICC lab at around 11:30 PM; the guy didn't show his ID and he was ordered to leave. CSOs have limited authority; they should be obeyed, by and large, as police officers, but have no authorization to use force unless force is used on them. So they called the UCPD; that's the only way the UCPD would have been there, in all honesty. They don't patrol much themselves, and it usually takes a few minutes for the UCPD to show up in most cases (sometimes more than a few).

CSOs are students hired to patrol campus and serve as escorts after a certain hour at night; they also function as doorkeepers in dorms from late evening until early morning.

[The Deacon]

39. "Routine ID Check"?

Why do I get a little frisson of "Your papers, please" here?

[Igel]

42. No, because it's only

"Your papers, please" when you're in a facility that's posted to be used after a certain hour by members of the campus community; and not just any ID is ok, it must be a BruinCard. If you leave the facility, and no more "your papers, please".

They do the same thing at the dorms: You must either swipe your card showing that you live in the dorm or have a dormie sign you in and supervise you. CSOs staff those checkpoints, too.

Both rules were instituted not to promote fascism, but to prevent burglaries and sexual assaults. You can't post somebody there at all times, so you go through and check IDs, chucking out or arresting trespassers (because that's what anybody without an ID in a CLICC lab at 11:30 at night is: a trespasser, by definition of the owners).

Doesn't mean in the least I think the kid should have been tasered repeatedly. Just that I think when the CSOs told him to get his ass out of there, he should have said, "Ok."

[readmoreoften]

40. CSOs are college kids. They are nothing more than hall monitors. And they are perfectly

capable of being bigoted, juvenile, and inappropriate. The fact remains that witnesses have stated that the student was being tased as he was walking towards the door. Voicing his disgruntlement is not a violent offense and there is no excuse for the campus security guards to have used a weapon against him-- not once, and certainly not multiple times while he was handcuffed.

[Igel]

43. Yes, CSOs can be juvenile.

Most do a decent job, though. I've known a bunch. A few jackasses, mostly decent young adults.

But when they asked the kid to leave, he should have left; he could have gone out to Royce Quad and taunted the blue shirts when they left Powell. Instead he hung around for a while in the CLICC lab until the UCPD showed up. It doesn't justify tasering him; but I can't say that what the kid did was right, either--regardless of what the CSOs *might* have done that was inappropriate.

[mondo joe]

35. Great. A torture apologist.

Yes, it will be for the courts to decide. One can only hope they'll be just.

[StraightDope]

41. WATHCH THIS VIDEO!!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=5707&mesg_id=5707

Tell me then, ex-officer, in YOUR judgment, did they cross the line? If not, why? Likewise, if you believe that these morally bankrupt cops DID criss the line, then what should be done to them?

Watch this video, and tell us ALL what your take on it is. I'll hold off my angry tirade until then.

SD

[annabanana]

46. "public safety comes first."?

And what kind of threat was a kid in a library? Really.

[madmusic]

7. CAMPUS NAZIS AT UCLA PROMOTE MASS MURDER

CALIFORNIA, Oct. 17 (EIRNS)--CAMPUS NAZIS AT UCLA PROMOTE MASS MURDER.

On Monday, the same day that the LYM had a rally and mass-distribution of the "Is Joseph Goebbles On Your Campus?" at UCLA, an evening event was held on campus to show that the answer to that question was YES.

A lecture titled "Destroying Islamic Totalitarianism: The West's Moral Imperative, featured Yaron Brook, executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute. According to the Daily Bruin newspaper
( 10/17/06), Yaron suggested that a way to defeat these regimes (Islamic totalitarian regimes) is to kill up to hundreds of thousands of their supporters. He said only resurgence in the pride for Western civilization can help the West defeat those Islamic states. He added that the killing would shrink popular support for extremist ideas to a small minority of the population, as opposed to the 40 percent Brook says are supporting the regimes now.

Brook was invited onto the campus to incite violence and mass-murder by the usual suspects. Co-sponsoring the event was UCLA L.O.G.I.C. (Liberty, Objectivity, Greed, Individualism, Capitalism) and the Bruins for Israel. LOGIC in known for having been intellectually pulverized by LYM members during a campus public-debate last November. The chairman of LOGIC, who participated in that debate, is Kenneth Hurst, who is also the Associate Editor of the neo-con Bruin Standard.

These campus Nazis are a small group of people who overlap various appendages of the same beast. David Lazar, who is the Publisher of the Bruin Standard is also listed (by UCLA Student Groups) as one of the three students representing the Bruin Republicans. He served as their Vice-Chairman last year, and their official campus web-site features photos of club members shooting various weapons at a local firing range. One photo shows a bullet-ridden Communications Studies pamphlet authored by a UCLA professor. The Bruin Republicans actively promoted the LOGIC event for Yaron Brook. (Mark Calney)

http://www.politiken.biz/foresprakar_massmord.html

EDIT: changed the title

[Scoot420fla]

10. Wow. Why am I not suprised? Thank You! nt

[madmusic]

16. No, no surprise. Sigh.

[let us vote]

31. Ask King and OJ if there is racial profiling in the LAPD

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

44. O.J.?

<snort>.....Good one......

[SaveOurDemocracy]

45. I wouldn't ask OJ

to wipe my ass.

[dsc]

47. The scariest part for me

is that they did this despite the fact they had to know students were taping them on cell phones. The previous tapes of police misconduct were either tapes in the police's control or tapes that weren't noticed by the cops.