The Taser Story: Think like a novel (D) or like a movie (R)

[madmusic]

Here's a question for the more philosophically inclined (aka, for those, like me, who think too much).

A lot of the debate on the UCLA Taser story is on "What is the rest of the story?" We didn't see all the tape and even if we did it wouldn't have the full story. Too much might not be on the tape. If we did know the full story we might support the campus police or we might support the victim. But this one incident is like cutting one scene out of a movie film roll, or maybe more like cutting one page out of a novel.

There is a bigger picture here. For movie (R) thinkers, the immediate cause and effect is all that matters. Once we have all the facts of the incident, guilty or not guilty prima facie. End of story.

For novel thinkers (D) there is a back story and a lot of interconnecting variables. Was it a civil protest and why would he do that? That would be in the backstory. Did the guards just come from another confrontation or were they told derogatory information before they approached the student? That would be in the back story. Why did the student choose to act then and not some other time? What is the cause and effect there? So for novel (D) thinkers, life is more complex and we don't get a slice of life, cut and dry, like we get in most movies.

What do you think?

[Vincardog]

1. I think the Police should not be Tazing students.

[flying_monkeys]

4. I think I'll tag along with you here.

I might make an exception for police tasing students that are actively, say, waving a gun.... But that would be one of the few exceptions to the rule.

[DemoDemoCratCrat]

2. The book is always better than the movie ....... nt

[burythehatchet]

3. I'll tell you exactly what happened

The victim was me. I can relate many instances where I have been singled out for questions or ID or something. I always err on the side of caution and convince myself that most situations are OK. But when it is blatant, I do not stand for it. I'm a brown man and I have lived in the country for 36 years. I've done my part and made my contribution. When some young cowboy with a badge and a billy club believes that riding a brown dude would be fun...it ain't gonna happen without a fight. I have yet to be tasered but I am in complete solidarity with the young brown fella who was tortured.

[DisgruntledVet]

5. Technically speaking

It wasn't the guys with badges who asked for the ID. That was fellow students who work as monitors. These students in turn contacted the cops.

[madmusic]

8. Where do you get that?

[DisgruntledVet]

11. Source

http://www.dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960

CSO's are students. My source was the School Newspaper. Since I am new here, I try to stay quiet since in 3 days here I have been accused of some weird things. But the source on this was the school.

[madmusic]

13. Community Service Officers (CSOs)

The UCLA Police Department trains and employs unarmed Community Service Officers (CSOs) as extra security in buildings and around campus. The CSOs are made up of approximately 120 part-time student workers and are the eyes and ears for the UCPD. Learn more about them at the CSO Home Page.

http://www.transportation.ucla.edu/faculty/navigating/safety/index.htm#2

Students? Yes. A branch of the police? Yes. Wannabe police? Maybe.

Not what we would normally think of as a student who is a future librarian who asked to see ID.

[madmusic]

10. That makes a lot of sense...

And it helps explain how something that appears to be irrational does in fact have a rational basis. Indeed, the campus police might have a history that also helps explain their actions.

[blondeatlast]

17. We're on the same page pretty much. See post 16, link follows.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2744401&mesg_id=2745238

there is NO way that young man deserved that torture, no way at all.

[Richard Steele]

6. Either way, TASING a prone & hancuffed kid is seriously WRONG. nm

[madmusic]

7. Uh, yeah, and there are plenty of threads on that.

:think:

[Richard Steele]

12. Oh, sorry if I'm going off-topic. I wasn't trying to thread-jack, honest!

Personally, I think even the "movie" analogy might be giving
too much credit. That type of thinking might be described
as "Sitcom", where every question must be neatly answered
in just 22 minutes.

[madmusic]

14. No problem... and...

I really like your "Sitcom" idea. Just 22 minutes sounds about right. Very shallow, too. So a movie is likely giving them too much credit.

[LoZoccolo]

9. I think with just the evidence in the video, you could make a case that they engaged in torture...

...just from the basic fact of what they were requesting, and what they did in response.

Here's a thread where I lay out my case:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2740047&mesg_id=2740047

[Feron]

15. Really it has more to do with selective perception...

than anything else. People filter the events through their own biases. If someone feels that police always abuse their power, then obviously that person will likely be on the side of the tasee. And if you are a "law and order" type ,then that person will likely side with the police. Of course things like racial bias may come into play as well. People look for things to reinforce how they already feel. Conspiracy theories are a good insight into how a biased mind works and why debunking doesn't always defeat them.

I severely doubt it was a protest. Whether provoked by the library worker or not, the guy sounds like an ass that made a spectacle of himself. However that doesn't automatically warrant a tasing and apparently he was leaving when the police arrived. Perhaps he earned that first tase ,but I do think that the police did use excessive force in tasing him multiple times and especially after handcuffed. The fact that there were some people demanding badge numbers and the officer's response sealed it for me.

However I'm sure that the tasee is seen as provoking a fight with police rather than leaving quietly. And there probably is truth to that belief. If you pick a fight with a couple of cops, then you aren't the brightest bulb out there and aren't likely to receive sympathy. However, the police shouldn't have overreacted to the guy's belligerence.

Either way there is no truly wronged side to get on. Both actors had a hand in what transpired.

And since you like philosophy, your question is posed as an either/or which is a logical fallacy. ;)

[blondeatlast]

16. Definitely a backstory. My very ILL-INFORMED thought about the scenario;

Before you jump on me, DU, keep in mind I've been married to a Middle Eastern looking man for over a decade, please.

Also keep in mind that this is purely speculation on my part, thanks. So, IMHO, the backstory is:

It was a civil protest, but I don't think it was pre-meditated. Pure opportunity. The Patriot Act thing was obviously in the back of the mind of the victim--and oh, yes, he was definitely a victim--aand he just responded with the first thing that came to his mind. As always, in threatening situations, we don't always think as clearly as would be halpful, and that's my idea of what happened here--and yes, I write fiction, fwiw.

I really am saying this as the wife of a man who appears vaguely ME (he's Punjabi, actually) who travels worldwide on business and here in the US (and he is a US citizen) has had to deal with being singled out. Inocuous things he has said to persons in authority have been misinterpreted; my blue-eyed blondeness has often come in handy when problems arise.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

18. I think it's odd to be screaming about "The Patriot Act" while getting tazed

Sounds like someone had their lines down pat.

But that's just me.

[blondeatlast]

19. Read my post above. nt