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sandrakae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 08:49 PM
Original message
Poll question: 2008 Presidential picks
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gore - no one else (except General Clark) even comes close
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Gore/Clark
Good combo.

Tough ticket to beat. Very tough.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Ditto.
:thumbsup:




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progressive_realist Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Almost impossible to beat
The electoral college math heavily favors this team. Although Gore/Richardson and Gore/Vilsack look pretty good, too. Basically any ticket with Gore at the top.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Except that it's a waste of Clark's talents.
He should be either president or secretary of state.

What would he do as president of the senate?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. He's Never Been in Politics
He's obviously smart and articulate - and seems to have good intentions - but he has no experience in US politics. Personally, I'd be concerned about that - VP would be an excellent way to have some substantial influence beyond military matters, while he gets on-the-job experience.

If he were VP, I can't imagine that he'd be just a prop - he's not that kinda' person.
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ICantBelieve Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes, he's been in politics
SACEUR is very political.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. I wouldn't be concerned with it and most people would relish that
(if the media would just pay attention).

People don't like politicians. That's actually a selling point for Clark.

Besides, he's said he doesn't want to be anyone's Dick Cheney.
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4smartpeas Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. Clark/Sebelius 08
It is long past time for a woman to be on the ticket. Clark is impeccable and Sebelius is an excellent choice for VP. Most of all...don't let the msm make the choice.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. Hi 4smartpeas!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. I want a paper ballot count!
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Gore, but...
Edited on Sat Nov-18-06 09:05 PM by longship
We can't know at this time who is going to be running twelve months from now. There may be several additions to your list, and several deletions. To speculate on this at this time is fun game, but that's all it is.

I don't know how much good this kind of stuff does.

I predict that things are going to really take off after January. For instance, revelations to the country from investigations, the convening of a grand jury under a special prosecutor, more very serious Chimp mishandling, or even something like a catastrophic global climate event may nullify all our presumptions.

I selected Al Gore. I really think he's the leader we need. Nobody else comes close. Clark is great, too, but I do not think that security and war are going to be the top issue in 2008. I have a sneaking suspicion that those issue are going to get trumped.
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progressive_realist Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yes, security and war are going to be second tier issues.
I predict the environment, the economy, energy security, and immigration are going to be the big issues for 2008. Katrina was the warning shot that we face more serious dangers than a handful of angry young religious zealots. As it was, 9/11 only could have happened with an Administration as incompetent as the current one. So that danger is rapidly receding.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Keep hoping.......2002 IWR was to get Iraq off the table,
Edited on Sun Nov-19-06 02:35 AM by FrenchieCat
2004 was realized too late that it was about national security afterall

2006 Somebody finally got the message....

2008, they've got McCain and Giuliani up there polling highest on the GOP side for some reason....and I don't think that it will be "the economy, stoopid". Amazing how folks thinks that all the Bush mayhem and the biggest strategic blunder will be wrapped up by the time the primaries come along in less than a year....or that we can't be hit again by terrorists!

Wishful thinking indeed!
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. Gore #1 if he runs, with Edwards or Clark. If he doesn't run,
then ONLY Edwards and Clark.

Feingold simplified things for me by deciding to stay in the senate.

For '08, it's really Gore, Edwards, Clark in some fashion.
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AfricanGray Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Does John Kerry have that many screen names?
Or do that many people really want to relive the 2004 election? Clark and Obama would be lovely...............
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Many of us are committed to anti-corruption, open government Democrats and that
Edited on Sun Nov-19-06 11:32 AM by blm
makes the choice clearly Kerry for us. We don't WANT another COVERUP Democrat in office to let BushInc off the hook for their crimes against this nation and its fragile democracy.

Democrats, the Truth Still Matters!
By Robert Parry
(First Posted May 11, 2006)

Editor's Note: With the Democratic victories in the House and Senate, there is finally the opportunity to demand answers from the Bush administration about important questions, ranging from Dick Cheney's secret energy policies to George W. Bush's Iraq War deceptions. But the Democrats are sure to be tempted to put the goal of "bipartisanship" ahead of the imperative for truth.

Democrats, being Democrats, always want to put governance, such as enacting legislation and building coalitions, ahead of oversight, which often involves confrontation and hard feelings. Democrats have a difficult time understanding why facts about past events matter when there are problems in the present and challenges in the future.

Given that proclivity, we are re-posting a story from last May that examined why President Bill Clinton and the last Democratic congressional majority (in 1993-94) shied away from a fight over key historical scandals from the Reagan-Bush-I years -- and the high price the Democrats paid for that decision:

My book, Secrecy & Privilege, opens with a scene in spring 1994 when a guest at a White House social event asks Bill Clinton why his administration didn’t pursue unresolved scandals from the Reagan-Bush era, such as the Iraqgate secret support for Saddam Hussein’s government and clandestine arms shipments to Iran.

Clinton responds to the questions from the guest, documentary filmmaker Stuart Sender, by saying, in effect, that those historical questions had to take a back seat to Clinton’s domestic agenda and his desire for greater bipartisanship with the Republicans.

Clinton “didn’t feel that it was a good idea to pursue these investigations because he was going to have to work with these people,” Sender told me in an interview. “He was going to try to work with these guys, compromise, build working relationships.”

Clinton’s relatively low regard for the value of truth and accountability is relevant again today because other centrist Democrats are urging their party to give George W. Bush’s administration a similar pass if the Democrats win one or both houses of Congress.

Reporting about a booklet issued by the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank of the Democratic Leadership Council, the Washington Post wrote, “these centrist Democrats … warned against calls to launch investigations into past administration decisions if Democrats gain control of the House or Senate in the November elections.”

These Democrats also called on the party to reject its “non-interventionist left” wing, which opposed the Iraq War and which wants Bush held accountable for the deceptions that surrounded it.

“Many of us are disturbed by the calls for investigations or even impeachment as the defining vision for our party for what we would do if we get back into office,” said pollster Jeremy Rosner, calling such an approach backward-looking.

Yet, before Democrats endorse the DLC’s don’t-look-back advice, they might want to examine the consequences of Clinton’s decision in 1993-94 to help the Republicans sweep the Reagan-Bush scandals under the rug. Most of what Clinton hoped for – bipartisanship and support for his domestic policies – never materialized.

‘Politicized’ CIA

After winning Election 1992, Clinton also rebuffed appeals from members of the U.S. intelligence community to reverse the Reagan-Bush “politicization” of the CIA’s analytical division by rebuilding the ethos of objective analysis even when it goes against a President’s desires.

Instead, in another accommodating gesture, Clinton gave the CIA director’s job to right-wing Democrat, James Woolsey, who had close ties to the Reagan-Bush administration and especially to its neoconservatives.

One senior Democrat told me Clinton picked Woolsey as a reward to the neocon-leaning editors of the New Republic for backing Clinton in Election 1992.

“I told that the New Republic hadn’t brought them enough votes to win a single precinct,” the senior Democrat said. “But they kept saying that they owed this to the editors of the New Republic.”

During his tenure at the CIA, Woolsey did next to nothing to address the CIA’s “politicization” issue, intelligence analysts said. Woolsey also never gained Clinton’s confidence and – after several CIA scandals – was out of the job by January 1995.

At the time of that White House chat with Stuart Sender, Clinton thought that his see-no-evil approach toward the Reagan-Bush era would give him an edge in fulfilling his campaign promise to “focus like a laser beam” on the economy.

He was taking on other major domestic challenges, too, like cutting the federal deficit and pushing a national health insurance plan developed by First Lady Hillary Clinton.

So for Clinton, learning the truth about controversial deals between the Reagan-Bush crowd and the autocratic governments of Iraq and Iran just wasn’t on the White House radar screen. Clinton also wanted to grant President George H.W. Bush a gracious exit.

“I wanted the country to be more united, not more divided,” Clinton explained in his 2004 memoir, My Life. “President Bush had given decades of service to our country, and I thought we should allow him to retire in peace, leaving the (Iran-Contra) matter between him and his conscience.”

Unexpected Results

Clinton’s generosity to George H.W. Bush and the Republicans, of course, didn’t turn out as he had hoped. Instead of bipartisanship and reciprocity, he was confronted with eight years of unrelenting GOP hostility, attacks on both his programs and his personal reputation.

Later, as tensions grew in the Middle East, the American people and even U.S. policymakers were flying partially blind, denied anything close to the full truth about the history of clandestine relationships between the Reagan-Bush team and hostile nations in the Middle East.

Clinton’s failure to expose that real history also led indirectly to the restoration of Bush Family control of the White House in 2001. Despite George W. Bush’s inexperience as a national leader, he drew support from many Americans who remembered his father’s presidency fondly.

If the full story of George H.W. Bush’s role in secret deals with Iraq and Iran had ever been made public, the Bush Family’s reputation would have been damaged to such a degree that George W. Bush’s candidacy would not have been conceivable.

Not only did Clinton inadvertently clear the way for the Bush restoration, but the Right’s political ascendancy wiped away much of the Clinton legacy, including a balanced federal budget and progress on income inequality. A poorly informed American public also was easily misled on what to do about U.S. relations with Iraq and Iran.

In retrospect, Clinton’s tolerance of Reagan-Bush cover-ups was a lose-lose-lose – the public was denied information it needed to understand dangerous complexities in the Middle East, George W. Bush built his presidential ambitions on the nation’s fuzzy memories of his dad, and Republicans got to enact a conservative agenda.

Clinton’s approach also reflected a lack of appreciation for the importance of truth in a democratic Republic. If the American people are expected to do their part in making sure democracy works, they need to be given at least a chance of being an informed electorate.

Yet, Clinton – and now some pro-Iraq War Democrats – view truth as an expendable trade-off when measured against political tactics or government policies. In reality, accurate information about important events is the lifeblood of democracy.

Though sometimes the truth can hurt, Clinton and the Democrats should understand that covering up the truth can hurt even more. As Clinton’s folly with the Reagan-Bush scandals should have taught, the Democrats may hurt themselves worst of all when helping the Republicans cover up the truth.

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq, can be ordered at secrecyandprivilege.com. It's also available at Amazon.com, as is his 1999 book, Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth.'

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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
35. Hi AfricanGray!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
38. Welcome to DU.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. Re-elect President Al Gore!
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
15. no Kucinich? maybe draft Feingold... beg him mercilessly?
:popcorn:
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iilana X Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
16. John Kerry is my first choice.
Quite a few good names on the list, but I really hope John Kerry runs.
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
17. Havent figured out why Kerry has so many votes...lets move forward
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. it's only with Kerry at the helm that we DO move forward! n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. Because anti-corruption, open government Democrats is what this country NEEDS
to get the books opened on BushInc once and for all.

And since many American voters just two weeks ago united to say that corruption in DC was a major issue - one that NO strategist saw coming - I'd say that running the TOP anti-corruption, open government lawmaker the Democrats have is the best choice one can make for this nation, its democracy, and the for the rest of the world.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
39. Because he's a man of integrity, who has devoted his life to public service,
Edited on Sun Nov-19-06 05:29 PM by MH1
and shares many values with those of us who voted for him in this poll.

He's persistent and will take on issues that others won't touch - like BCCI and the POW/MIA hearings. He'll work with others to find common ground and make some progress, even if his ideal solution is out of reach due to partisanship.

He has been a tireless defender of veterans' benefits, environmental concerns, real small business, women and minority entrepreneurship; with Wellstone, co-sponsored the most comprehensive REAL campaign finance reform measure ever introduced; wrote the bill that became the S-CHIP program....and so forth.

He's a smart guy who proposes alternatives when he opposes something. He understands economics and has proposed a sensible corporate tax restructuring that would bring businesses - and JOBS - back to the US.

He favors open and transparent government.

But probably mostly because this is a guy who can say, and no one doubts that he means it:

There is no more important word, in my judgment, in the American language, other than "love", than "citizen." ~ John Kerry 10/26/2005

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yellowdogmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. Gary Hart!
Enough time has passed. I still think he would be great. I am reading his latest book now. He is the man!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Kerry/Hart would have been a brilliant choice in 2004 (or 2008) -Hart/Kerry would be great too
Donna Rice was decades ago and he and his wife survived it. Hart's work with Rudman, if read by the Bush administration, could have at least given us a chance to avoid 911. He would have been able to link his expertise on that to Kerry's own work on terrorism. He also would have defeated Cheney in the VP debate. They also could have played up the depth of experience of the team.

I saw Gary Hart speak in Boston when Kerry spoke on Real Security - the respect the two men have for each other was very very obvious.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Hart is a brilliant mind and a passionate Democrat, through and through.
His is a voice that I respect because he understands ALL the layers of the last 40 years of policies that have led us to the power of BushInc that is holding this nation captive.

He is one of the few Dem voices still fighting BushInc while other prominent Dems are working to cover up and PROTECT BushInc.
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bluedogyellowdog Donating Member (338 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
21. In order:
and this order can change at any time - I could go with any of these.

1. Edwards
2. Clark
3. Gravel (should be included in polls - hello!)
4. Obama
5. Vilsack
6. Kerry
7. the others
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
22. Gore, Gore , Gore!
There have been a lot of these polls lately and the response is always the same.
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survivor999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
28. How many of these dumb Presidential polls do we have to see?
2 years before the Prez election?
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sandrakae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I'd rather see a dumb presidential poll than Dumb President
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survivor999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I'd rather see neither.
Dean for Prez.
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sandrakae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Then use the back button when you see one.
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survivor999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. But to do so I have to SEE one first.
Which proves my point. What are you gaining by posting these stupid polls anyway? We've had 10 per day for the last few weeks. So, let's see how they go. Clark supporter posts one and invites his/her buddies to vote there via PM; result: Clark is the favorite one. Gore supporter posts one and invites his/her buddies to vote there via PM; result: Gore is the favorite one...
Replace name with your favorite candidate and you get the picture. Arguing they have any useful purpose is futile, my friend.
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Red Right and BLUE Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
31. Gore!! nt
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
32. Is it any wonder Gore consistently wins these polls over and over?
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
33. GOOOOORRRRRRRRRRE!
He won once already!

I notice there's no love for Hil here. I can't see her getting through the nomination process. Too much of an ass-kisser, and she voted for the IWR, which is not cool to the left.

Even though I'm a huge fan of Bill, I think we're all Clintoned out as far as presidents go. Let's get someone besides a Bush or Clinton for once.
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Grebrook Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
36. U-Wes-A! Clark!
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imperial jedi Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
37. Gen. Clark!!!
n/t
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
40. Gore/Clark or Clark/Gore
an unbeatable team. :thumbsup:
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