Show ID TO GET INTO A UNIVERSITY LIBRARY?

[janx]

1. Since when did it become mandatory for students to show ID to enter a university library?

2. Why did the "Young Turks" on AAR make fun of the incident? (I heard this in the wee hours of the morning--yesterday? day before?--and couldn't believe it.

?? :shrug:

[janx]

1. kick

because I want to know!

[MannyGoldstein]

2. At Harvard, That's been The Case for Years

FWIW - my sister went to Harvard in the 80s - she couldn't even bring me into the library with her ID card (she tried).

[Ms. Clio]

3. maybe it's different for the state and Western land-grant universities

Because I have never ever been asked for ID upon entering a university library, even a private university in my area. I did see the signs informing visitors they could not stay past a certain hour.

[Duer 157099]

4. Isn't that private though? UCLA is a public school

so the situation should be different

My understanding is that the library is only available to students AFTER 11pm, and that's why they were checking ID.

I went to UCLA; there are alot of homeless people who would camp out in the library overnight if they could, so no doubt that has something to do with the policy.

You don't need ID to get into the libraries at UCLA, from what I recall

[MannyGoldstein]

9. It Probably is Situational

While my sis was at Harvard in urban Boston/Cambridge, I was attending a lesser institution in Ithaca NY - very unurban. Anyone could wander into the libraries - no ID needed.

[janx]

20. You're probably right about that, except that your "lesser

institution" might not have been lesser in the grand scheme of things. ;-) I suppose I'm an idealist, but the thought of someone's having to show ID to enter a library strikes me as absurd.

[janx]

8. Not so at Yale--at least not in the 90s.

I was working on a research project and was completely welcome at Sterling Library. Not only that, but I was welcome in libraries where only Yale students were supposed to go. (The latter surprised me.)

I've been a university library rat for many years, and I've never heard of "carding" to get into one of them. It's depressing.

[survivor999]

46. Yale? In 1995 they were definitely

asking for IDs...

[survivor999]

43. Most Universities, in fact

[Ms. Clio]

49. no, that's not correct

most university libraries do not demand ID to enter the library during regular business hours.

[survivor999]

58. Perhaps those that have no books or journals

worth reading don't demand it.

[Ms. Clio]

59. what an asinine statement

yes, universities in the Metroplex don't have books or journals worth reading.

:eyes:

[WillyT]

At The Colleges I've Attended Or Visited, You Just Needed ID To...

check out materials, not to enter the friggin building!

:wtf:

[janx]

10. Exactly!

What has changed? :shrug:

[readmoreoften]

5. Normal at private libraries. Not normal at public (like UCLA) libraries.

At NYU, the community allowed the library to be built only if the foyer area was open to all NYers. NYU broke that contract and put in a bank of ID scanners.

Private U's do it to protect their collections. The idea of a random ID check is fairly absurd though. At UCLA I think they do it to keep the homeless out. I'm sure they didn't think this kid was homeless.

[BadgerKid]

6. A university in a bad neighborhood. n/t

[951-Riverside]

12. I agree

I don't think people realize the rapes, thefts, batteries, etc that occurs on UC campuses. These campuses are huge, its just not a place you would want your young daughter walking around alone. With that said if he simply refused to show ID they should have dragged his ass and charged him with disorderly conduct but they crossed the line when they punished the guy after he was under control.

[janx]

15. Then the UC campuses should have better overall security.

Tasering some kid in a university library (who was not raping, stealing, or battering) is beyond belief. Requiring ID to enter a library is surreal.

[951-Riverside]

19. Re: "Requiring ID to enter a library is surreal."

...Really?

Because at most public libraries you need one to get a library card so you can check out books.

[Ms. Clio]

21. yes, but you don't need a library card to sit in the library and read

[janx]

22. Yes, but you don't need an ID just to enter the building

and check out the stacks.

[mondo joe]

25. Why is it surreal? Some universities limit access to the library to students

at certain times - in the case of UCLA, after 11pm.

[janx]

29. And that is when this taser incident occurred?

I've enjoyed a great deal of time in university libraries and have never been turned away, even when I was not faculty, staff, or student. It surprises me. University libraries, to me, are marvelous, hospitable places. If people who show up at the library for reasons other than the pursuit of research or reading, I can understand why they would be encouraged to leave--but something so harsh and weird as showing ID just to get in seems antithetical to the purpose of a library in the first place.

[mondo joe]

33. I believe so (which in NO WAY justifies the tasering!!!)

And if the library required ID at all times, I'd agree with you.

But limiting access to students at certain times seems entirely appropriate to me, and in the interest of safety fort the students. A late night university library is fertile ground for potential criminals.

[malaise]

53. Even staff need IDs to use the library

When I visit other universities I take a letter from my U along with my ID and always get a pass from the front desk. This used to be free but it now costs money.
Sp.

[Ms. Clio]

40. but not simply to enter the building at any other time

[mondo joe]

42. I concur. Exclusivity seems extreme to me. But some limits seem

warranted and in the interest of the students and the library.

[Ms. Clio]

47. definitely; I have no trouble with limiting access during evening hours

[Generic Brad]

50. Agreed

There were no reports of him raping, stealing, or battering books. UCLA Campus Security was completely out of line.

[Hepburn]

24. Nope.

UCLA is in Westwood. Very posh neighborhood.

[951-Riverside]

31. ....A name on a map means absolutely nothing

I've temped on several UC campuses including UCLA and its not as "posh" as you might think.


Crime stats for UCLA:
http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu/ucpd/clery.htm

[WindRavenX]

7. during midterms or finals, you have to show your ID here at Boston College

But no one really checks.

[janx]

13. That's kind of like trying to sneak a cup of coffee into the library...

something I did at CU on a regular basis--with a mentor, I might add, who had taught at some of the best universities in the nation. ;-)

This ID check is completely depressing. University libraries and librarians are wonderful.

[WindRavenX]

28. yup

I usually smuggle coffee and a sandwhich in :)

[janx]

32. ...love it...

:rofl:

[Ammonium]

11. UGA

The University of Georgia does not require you to show a student ID to enter and of the libraries. If you want to check out a book or print something off of the computer you need an ID though.

[janx]

16. That's NORMAL--

although a dozen or so years ago, you could pour over books and journals and make copies without having a student or faculty ID.

[Ammonium]

44. I suppose

UGA has moved to where you can put money on your student ID card so it acts like a debit card. So instead of feeding a machine coins to make copied/print stuff you swipe your card.

If you live on campus, where you have to swipe your card and have your right hand scanned, to get into the dorms it's not such a big deal. For the rest of us that live off campus having to put money on a card just so I can print stuff at the library is a little annoying.

[conscious evolution]

57. All University system of Georgia libraries are,by law,

open to the public.Same with gyms.
There was a states supreme court ruling on the matter in the 80's.They were opened to the public because they are tax-payer funded and the tax-payer has the right to use state facilities.Non students have to follow the same rules as the student body though.

[THUNDER HANDS]

14. read the police blotter in a campus newspaper sometimes

lots of attacks happen on campus libraries.

[janx]

18. Not so long ago, a university library was a very safe place.

It didn't occur to people that a university library would be dangerous. It's NERDVILLE! This is very bizarre.

[mondo joe]

27. But the nerds aren't the danger. That's the point of the ID check - to limit

access to the people for which the library exists: the students.

[janx]

34. University libraries don't only exist to help the students.

They are proud of their collections, and researchers, writers, and all kinds of other people make use of them--people who sometimes ultimately benefit the libraries in return.

[mondo joe]

36. No, but that is its PRIMARY purpose. And that is also the reason to sometimes

limit access to fulfill its PRIMARY purpose.

[janx]

37. That is not any reasonable excuse to require ID upon entering

a university library. I admit I am biased, but university libraries are some of the very best places for getting to the truth of a matter, and it's very disheartening to read about their having to ID people for just walking in.

[mondo joe]

39. Of course it is - the university is appropriately limiting access at certain

times in order to fulfill its primary purpose.

The ID is just to show that you are actually a student and therefore have full access.

[Ms. Clio]

45. I understand limiting access at night; my university does the same

but nobody has to have an ID to enter any other time.

[fujiyama]

52. University libraries

are great magnets for criminals. You have all sorts of valuable items all over the place (like laptops and iPods), not to mention (often times) wealthy students (especially at a school like UCLA).

I think university libraries are great institutions and during day time hours, they should certainly be open to all. But I would imagine most college/university libraries are closed to non-students/faculty beyond those hours and ID would be required to stay or enter. I went to a university in an urban area and it was open to the public during the day, but after 10, they went around checking IDs to make sure the person inside was affiliated. Aside from theft, there were quite a few homeless people in the area, and unfortunately, many just used the internet to look up porn.

And there was only one particular door to enter the designated late night areas of the library, and it required the ID to electronically swipe and enter the building.\

From what I've heard, security certainly overreacted in this case. A taser was definetely not necessary, but the student shouldn't have been allowed in the library without an ID at late night hours, if those were the policies set forth.

[FormerDittoHead]

17. Had to show ID to get into Drexel library in Philly 10 years ago... n/t

[janx]

26. Do you have any idea why? n/t

[Christian30]

23. We had to show ID

to enter my college's library. This was mainly to cut down on theft since my college was in a not-so-great neighborhood. I don't think by itself it's that notable.

[janx]

30. What would perps steal? Are they worried about computers?

Not-so-great-neighborhood criminals would hardly be in it for the books. They'd have to steal a lot of books and find a market for the books, yes?

[mondo joe]

35. Um, let's see - it's 2am. There are sleepy students who might leave their

backpacks or laptops unguarded for a minute. There are young women leaving alone, who are easy targets for rape.

In addition to these risks, the more people who use a library the greater the expense to staff it. While a full staff is typically required during the day, limiting access to students late at night maximizes the payoff of the cost of staffing by keeping the library available to fulfill its purpose.

[951-Riverside]

38. Speaking of laptops on campus

If you are looking to snatch one the public university is the best place to go because they just leave the things laying around, same with cell phone and even projectors. Fortunately there are plenty of honest students and staff who do turn in those items in.

[mondo joe]

41. It's amazing that some people stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that there is

a legitimate security reason for limiting access at some times.

[RamboLiberal]

48. Apparently it's a UCLA policy for late night use

The incident occurred about 11 p.m. Tuesday after police did a routine check of student identification at the Powell Library computer lab.

"This is a long-standing library policy to ensure the safety of students during the late-night hours," said UCLA Police Department spokeswoman Nancy Greenstein.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15752233/

I don't find that unreasonable for student safety. That's not saying I don't think the student involved was profiled or that the tasering is wrong.

I think cops in many cases are escalating to using the tasers far too quickly and before other options are used.

[valerief]

51. I miss Marc Maron on AAR in the morning. The Young Turks can

be soooooooo Republican.

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. I had to have an ID to go into my university library 20 years ago

In fact, the library issued ID was my only photo ID (apart from my passport), so I used it for other things as identification.

It was one of the UK "copyright" libraries - it can ask for a (free) copy of any published material in the UK from the publishers. As such, the collection is important, and they have to be careful about who has access. You weren't allowed to check books out until the final year, or you were a graduate student - department and (much smaller) college libraries were where you went for that before then.

[Princess Turandot]

55. My undergrad university library always required ID upon admission..

back in the 1970's. When I was last there in the 1990's, they were still doing so. I don't see that as being an issue at all. Even back then, the college ID had multiple uses and we always carried them. (The library did have restrooms in the public area of the building, in case someone just checked in for a pit-stop.) My graduate school library in NYC did not check IDs, and in the time I was there, there were several episodes of theft. (You see a woman's purse on the floor where she is sitting, you walk by and 'accidentally' drop the books that you are carrying, you bend down to get your books and take her wallet with you. All you need is moxie.)

In terms of open access, why should a university library should be automatically open to the public at large? If you are paying tuition, you should have first dibs on the materials in the library and the work spaces. You also have a right to be safe. It's not a guarantee of course, but if you are working in a study-carrel rabbit warren late at night, it's at least a bit of a security re-enforcement. In terms of public universities, tax dollars support them so you and your children can attend them at a more reasonable tuition cost, not to create an alternative public library system. Most universities have procedures through which unaffiliated people can access to their libraries.

[WinkyDink]

56. Lehigh U., Princeton, I'm sure many others, require ID.

[Ms. Clio]

60. They require everyone to show a student ID merely to enter the building?

during normal business hours?

On edit: Those are private universities, though -- I don't think most state universities have such a requirement.